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2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread


Going Commando

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On 2/18/2019 at 6:36 AM, Koala said:

How are there still people seriously talking about Murray?  He's RG3 lite -- ran too spread/non-NFL-type offe se, only he smaller, he is less accurate, and he has less arm strength than RG3. This is the worst idea ever.  

 

Why have the Redskins stopped talking about D. Haskins?  Hes much more of prototype NGL QB.  

 

I swear B. Allen is dumb as all hell.  Even if he doesn't think we should pay the price for Haskins, he should realize that the NY Giants --our division NFl --are absolutely in LOVE with Haskins and talking about trading up to get him if necessary.  We should at least pretend to be interested in trading for Haskins, if for no other reason than to screw NY by driving up the price to get him.

 

Instead the only rumours out of SKINS park is about the baseball player, not a peep about Haskins.  Unless Allen is really interested in trading up for Haskins and doesn't want to drive up the price by talking  about him then hes failing at GM 101 -- if you cant get who you want make sure your rivals got to pay an arm and a leg to get what they want!

 

 

 

So you're saying that your upset that we're not hearing about Haskins, but if we were to be hearing about Haskins... that would be a bad thing....? 

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20 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Something I heard a week or so ago has softened my concern with Murray (I'm still concerned, but the point was a very valid one).  Most of the time NFL QBs aren't necessarily throwing to a receiver as they scan the field.  They're throwing to an area that it's anticipated the receiver will be, and will be open.  They also very rarely want to lock in on a WR and have to be able to see them for seconds at a time.  Obviously there are option routes and things that the QB needs to be able to have a clear line of sight to see the WR and the coverage, but a lot of the timing / WCO offense... they're relying on reps and muscle memory to put the ball in a specific area for the WR to make the play.  This type of offense could really work in Murray's favor where he may be a bit more restricted being able to see over O-line / D-line / LB level  players.  A lot of NFL Offenses don't require the QB to have that type of vision.  

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23 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:


Lastly Kiper updated his mock. He has Hockenson going at 8 to Detroit. That is probably more realistic. He has Murray going at 13 to Miami, and us taking Lock at 15. I have to be honest. I don't like Lock as a franchise QB. He has a fantastic arm. He's not accurate and isn't good under pressure. If the draft falls like this, I would trade down and find better value. 

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2019/insider/story/_/id/26018010/mel-kiper-2019-nfl-mock-draft-first-round-pick-predictions-rankings-1-32-draft-order

 

I just watched Lock's game against Alabama for the first time and its planted some doubts in me about him.  I'll watch another one of him shortly. 

 

The irony about Murray is its better for the Redskins if he doesn't blow up the combine.  Read yesterday some expect him to measure at 5 "10.   And Murray himself thinks he will run a 4.3 or better based on his previous timed runs.  If that all goes down, I think he's going top 5 for sure. 

 

I am somewhat relaxed though no matter what they do (save them taking Daniel Jones) because I am a 2020 draft a QB guy all things being equal.  But unlike some here I got no problem with them go getting Murray.  As for Haskins, I got to digest him more.  I watched some of his games during the season but I haven't studied him  -- I noticed most draft geeks think he's good but not great -- and as for potential they are all over the place on it ranging from he will end up elite to he will end up another Ohio State QB bust.

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21 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

C.  His favorite QB on the 2nd day is Stidham. Thinks he goes in the third.  Said he looked good at the senior bowl and last year fell off in large part because Auborn just stunk it up  last year -- bad supporting cast, questionable coaching.  JP Finlay kicked in about how impressed he was about Stidham as a person when he interviewed him

 

 D.  He likes Jonah Williams as a possibility to the Redskins at 15.  He doesn't think he would be a good LT but thinks he well suited to be a really good guard. 

 

Thats is very plausible. I like Stidham as a pairing with a new vet QB too. We fix the gap at LG and in the second round we can chase BPA at Edge or WR/TE.

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Murray will be a game changer on a rookie salary. Yes please! He may not be your QB for 15 years but has chance to be electric in his 20s. 

 

Like some more informed contributors on here are saying, not sure he will be available. 

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1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Thats is very plausible. I like Stidham as a pairing with a new vet QB too. We fix the gap at LG and in the second round we can chase BPA at Edge or WR/TE.

 

I have my doubts about all of the QBs outside of the first round, got some doubts of two of the four QBs who likely do go in the first -- but I don't want to trade up unless its a cheap trade up.  So I am ok with any flier they take especially if its the third round or later whether its Rypien, Stidham, Finley, Minschew or whomever.  Reason being is I doubt that they'd feel invested in that player so it keeps things open for 2020.

 

Stidham to me is a hard read.   He plays well if you give him time.  He's accurate and has a really good arm and pretty deep ball.  But if he has to react to pressure or perceived pressure he seems to play with an obvious panic about him.  If I am a defensive coordinator, I'd just blitz the heck out of him.  Some have said he's not clutch and struggles in big moments.  I haven't explored that further but I've seen that mention a couple of times. 

 

After watching Stidham, I read Hogs Haven's take on him.  They were pushing Stidham and in the mix of their praise they mention how he does well when plays break down citing a specific play.  That's wild to me.  It makes me think sometimes these draft geek run blogs have preconceptions and stick to them no matter what or just don't watch much of said player.  The Draft Network among others are thorough and I read their take which mostly dovetails from mine.  Not that I am any expert but Stidham's pluses and minuses I think are easy to see if you sit through his games. 

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5 minutes ago, RWJ said:

They may want a team to move up so they can acquire more draft picks.  Just a hunch.

 

They already have plenty of picks. The did their picks-packing last year, when they traded away all their studs. So, they won't need to do it during the draft.

They now have 3 1st rounders, and a total of 10 picks.

They are probably going to use those to trade up, more-so than trade down.

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10 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

They already have plenty of picks. The did their picks-packing last year, when they traded away all their studs. So, they won't need to do it during the draft.

They now have 3 1st rounders, and a total of 10 picks.

They are probably going to use those to trade up, more-so than trade down.

They do I just find it hard to believe Kiper and him saying that they are interested in Murray.  Doesn't make sense to me with him as Jon Gruden's QB when they have Carr.  Who knows.  

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Been awhile, just watched a four Drew Lock games.  I'll chalk up Alabama to him having a bad day -- though hopefully that wasn't more about being a better test for him going up against a good defense.  Though I think I saw somewhere that his stats on the aggregate wasn't hot against top 10 teams. 

 

But watching him back to back versus Stidham, for my take at least you can see a major difference in pocket presence and making plays rolling out or scrambling away from pressure.  They are both good at fakes-ball handling in the backfield.  Posted some plays like that here and also for another one showcasing his gun of an arm.  Lock > Stidham IMO.  Lock > D. Jones IMO.

 

I can dig Drew Lock if he drops to 15.   I listened yesterday to Keim in a podcast who said he talked to a front office guy from another team who told him he thought Lock was a good fit to Jay's system.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Been awhile, just watched a four Drew Lock games.  I'll chalk up Alabama to him having a bad day -- though hopefully that wasn't more about being a better test for him going up against a good defense.  Though I think I saw somewhere that his stats on the aggregate wasn't hot against top 10 teams. 

 

But watching him back to back versus Stidham, for my take at least you can see a major difference in pocket presence and making plays rolling out or scrambling away from pressure.  Posted some plays like that here and also for another one showcasing his gun of an arm.

 

I can dig Drew Lock if he drops to 15.   I listened yesterday to Keim in a podcast who said he talked to a front office guy from another team who told him he thought Lock was a good fit to Jay's system.

 

 

 

I like Lock at #15 but I just got this feeling the Skins are all in on Jones at #15.  Most every draft analyst at CBS sports has us taking him at #15.  A couple have us taking Murray at #15 but I think Murray gets selected before our pick and we stand pat and take Jones.  

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28 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I like Lock at #15 but I just got this feeling the Skins are all in on Jones at #15.  Most every draft analyst at CBS sports has us taking him at #15.  A couple have us taking Murray at #15 but I think Murray gets selected before our pick and we stand pat and take Jones.  

 

Maybe.  The impression I get listening to Hoffman, Keim, Finlay -- heck even Doug himself is that they haven't landed on a full opinion yet on these QBs.  Doug suggested they are meeting this week to discuss it.  Listening to Finlay and Keim yesterday and everything so far.  This is mostly Keim.  The points I got from it:

 

A.  They like all 4 QBs who are supposed to go in the first round for different reasons

B.  The concern about Murray is can he run their quick short game.  To me that sounds like they wouldn't want to change their offense in its entirely for Murray and yeah the quick short game is Daniel Jones' thing.  IMO Daniel Jones doesn't do much well besides the quick short game,

C.  One personnel guy from another team told Keim that Lock is a good fit to Jay's system

D.  They might not draft a Qb high in the draft at all because its likely a win or else season for Jay and others there.   So can a young QB help them win THIS year.  If not, he can see them balking drafting one in the first round and instead use that pick to upgrade the rest of the roster.

E.  They do genuinely feel like they are close so they aren't in the mood to pick with rebuilding in mind.

 

This is just my own editorial extrapolating from bits a pieces from all those guys and Paulsen, Sheehan-Cooley, too.

 

A. Jay likes Colt a lot not just as a player but as a dude and has been clamoring to prove that point to people he's touted him too behind the scenes for years. Paulsen for example said yesterday he heard that Jay was fine with the Alex acquisition but wasn't in love with the move and by extension was cool with riding with Colt.

B.  I am gathering Bruce or someone in that FO (maybe O'Connell because he was tasked supposedly to evaluate QB options last year) doesn't agree with Jay about this -- and or maybe its concerns about Colt's durability

C. Dan looms in the background and might desire a splash considering everything that's going on.

 

If I had to guess I'd say:

A.  Jay might want the status quo.  Ride with Colt and Johnson.  He'd probably welcome a 3-5th round project and the third guy.  Doesn't want Kyler or like to take a QB in the first round.  but as some who cover the team suggest (especially Sheehan) Jay might not have much power with this decision.

B.  Bruce sounds like the king of the we are close narrative and I'd guess would prefer some veteran option to add to Colt to fuel that win now narrative.

C.  Dan might be the one who gets worried if season tickets sag or whatever and like Keim says you never know might just tell them go get Kyler Murray.

 

If all of this is true or close enough.  It puts me in an odd place because I rarely root for Dan to impinge on decisions like that.  But in this case I might be rooting for it -- even though the whole structure is screwed up so its selfish for me to think this way but its hard not to do.  I don't like the idea of having your HC and FO in a win or else season where the team's future IMO won't be served by running an off season to fuel that thought.    Dan made that strange bed.   So while I like Jay personally, I don't think it will matter in the end to his job security if he runs with Colt or gets shoved Kyler or some other young QB down his throat.  In fact, I think its the best shot ironically to save his job.  Now, I wouldn't hate that the way some here would.  But I would hate saving Bruce's job.  Nonetheless, I can't ever root for them to make bad decisions in the draft -- just to help move someone in the FO out of the way, that's not in me.   I am rooting for that in FA -- not for them to make bad decisions but to do things that don't cost them squat as for the cap long term.   

 

I am thinking this ends up a reboot year whether they like it or not.  Unless, ironically they luck into Murray or somehow overhaul the QB position in a good way. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Maybe.  The impression I get listening to Hoffman, Keim, Finlay -- heck even Doug himself is that they haven't landed on a full opinion yet on these QBs.  Doug suggested they are meeting this week to discuss it.  Listening to Finlay and Keim yesterday and everything so far.  This is mostly Keim.  The points I got from it:

 

A.  They like all 4 QBs who are supposed to go in the first round for different reasons

B.  The concern about Murray is can he run their quick short game.  To me that sounds like they wouldn't want to change their offense in its entirely for Murray and yeah the quick short game is Daniel Jones' thing.  IMO Daniel Jones doesn't do much well besides the quick short game,

C.  One personnel guy from another team told Keim that Lock is a good fit to Jay's system

D.  They might not draft a Qb high in the draft at all because its likely a win or else season for Jay and others there.   So can a young QB help them win THIS year.  If not, he can see them balking drafting one in the first round and instead use that pick to upgrade the rest of the roster.

E.  They do genuinely feel like they are close so they aren't in the mood to pick with rebuilding in mind.

 

This is just my own editorial extrapolating from bits a pieces from all those guys and Paulsen, Sheehan-Cooley, too.

 

A. Jay likes Colt a lot not just as a player but as a dude and has been clamoring to prove that point to people he's touted him too behind the scenes for years. Paulsen for example said yesterday he heard that Jay was fine with the Alex acquisition but wasn't in love with the move and by extension was cool with riding with Colt.

B.  I am gathering Bruce or someone in that FO doesn't agree with Jay about this -- and or maybe its concerns about Colt's durability

C. Dan looms in the background and might desire a splash considering everything that's going on.

 

If I had to guess I'd say:

A.  Jay wants status quo.  Ride with Colt and Johnson.  He'd probably welcome a 3-5th round project and the third guy.  Doesn't want Kyler or like to take a QB in the first round.  but as some who cover the team suggest (especially Sheehan) Jay might not have much power with this decision.

B.  Bruce sounds like the king of the we are close narrative and I'd guess would prefer some veteran option to add to Colt to fuel that win now narrative.

C.  Dan might be the one who gets worried if season tickets sag or whatever and like Keim says you never know might just tell them go get Kyler Murray.

 

If all of this is true or close enough.  It puts me in an odd place because I rarely root for Dan to impinge on decisions like that.  But in this case I might be rooting for it -- even though the whole structure is screwed up.  I don't like the idea of having your HC and FO in a win or else season where the team's future IMO won't be served by running an off season to fuel that thought.    Dan made that strange bed.   So while I like Jay personally, I don't think it will matter in the end to his job security if he runs with Colt or gets shoved Kyler or some other young QB down his throat.  In fact, I think its the best shot ironically to save his job.  Now, I wouldn't hate that the way some here would.  But I would hate saving Bruce's job.  Nonetheless, I can't ever root for them to make bad decisions in the draft -- to move someone in the FO out of the way, that's not in me.   I am rooting for that in FA -- not for them to make bad decisions but to do things that don't cost them squat as for the cap long term. 

 

All good points, SIP.  What's interesting in the matter is O' Connell being down in Ala. for the Senior Bowl and Jay being back here.  What does that tell us?  How much pull will he have in the choosing of a QB?  He has ties to both Murray and Stidham but the overruling factor in all of it is Allen or Snyder.  In the end, Murray may be too much for Snyder to pass up on (RG3 2.0) but IMO much better and he has Allen pull the trigger on Murray.  

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12 minutes ago, RWJ said:

All good points, SIP.  What's interesting in the matter is O' Connell being down in Ala. for the Senior Bowl and Jay being back here.  What does that tell us?  How much pull will he have in the choosing of a QB?  He has ties to both Murray and Stidham but the overruling factor in all of it is Allen or Snyder.  In the end, Murray may be too much for Snyder to pass up on (RG3 2.0) but IMO much better and he has Allen pull the trigger on Murray.  

 

The irony for me is profile wise I trust Kyle Smith the most to make the call. But I wonder if he does because big QB decisions seem to go down under Dan as a different animal than other positions.  I've said before I think the strongest aspect of this front office is Kyle and draft evaluation.  And I've heard multiple times Jay is really good at it, too.   I am not sure I trust Jay to evaluate Murray because I am assuming (and I could be wrong) that he's not his type of guy.  And in his defense Jay wouldn't be the only HC who wouldn't want to throw away his offense for a pure shot gun-spread system.  But I do trust Jay to judge the other guys in the draft -- Haskins, Lock, Jones. 

 

Looks like Hoffman will be talking about the topic on Friday.  Though I doubt he has any good gossip until the combine.  The last thing he said that I can recall is these guys haven't landed on who they like just yet.   But it was pretty good last time, Keim too, at giving early indications of what they are thinking.  For a long time last year we kept hearing the names:  Payne, Vea, D. James. M. Fitzpatrick, D. Guice.

 

 

 

 

 

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I know that this is a whiny thing to say, but all of the QB talk is super dull, and I hate it that the draft thread is basically the QB 2019 thread, mostly minus the free agent talk. 

 

How far do you guys see Marquise Brown falling with his Lis Franc surgery? I definitely see him as being available in the second, but I wonder if he could fall to the late 2nd. 

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36 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The irony for me is profile wise I trust Kyle Smith the most to make the call. But I wonder if he does because big QB decisions seem to go down under Dan as a different animal than other positions.  I've said before I think the strongest aspect of this front office is Kyle and draft evaluation.  And I've heard multiple times Jay is really good at it, too.   I am not sure I trust Jay to evaluate Murray because I am assuming (and I could be wrong) that he's not his type of guy.  And in his defense Jay wouldn't be the only HC who wouldn't want to throw away his offense for a pure shot gun-spread system.  But I do trust Jay to judge the other guys in the draft -- Haskins, Lock, Jones. 

 

Looks like Hoffman will be talking about the topic on Friday.  Though I doubt he has any good gossip until the combine.  The last thing he said that I can recall is these guys haven't landed on who they like just yet.   But it was pretty good last time, Keim too, at giving early indications of what they are thinking.  For a long time last year we kept hearing the names:  Payne, Vea, D. James. M. Fitzpatrick, D. Guice.

 

Yes, I should have mentioned Kyle Smith as he has had ALOT of influence in the drafts.  When it comes to the drafts he hasn't had to make a decision on that position yet (i.e., we had KC and AS).  Does Doug Williams factor in since he was QB for the Skins in the SB and won.  Many intricate moving parts when it comes to those who will be involved in the guy we pick at QB.

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40 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I know that this is a whiny thing to say, but all of the QB talk is super dull, and I hate it that the draft thread is basically the QB 2019 thread, mostly minus the free agent talk. 

 

How far do you guys see Marquise Brown falling with his Lis Franc surgery? I definitely see him as being available in the second, but I wonder if he could fall to the late 2nd. 

Personally, I hate seeing us take a player with a questionable injury because Skins have that problem with injuries anyway.  I know players recover from LF but he plays a skill position which worries me - see Josh Doctson.  Some team is going to pick him up in the 2nd.  I believe DK Metcaff is the jewel in this draft!  

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

I know that this is a whiny thing to say, but all of the QB talk is super dull, and I hate it that the draft thread is basically the QB 2019 thread, mostly minus the free agent talk. 

 

How far do you guys see Marquise Brown falling with his Lis Franc surgery? I definitely see him as being available in the second, but I wonder if he could fall to the late 2nd. 

 

I've probably posted more about Marquise Brown than anyone going back to the college season.  Got a mega crush on what I think he can do in the NFL.  He can take a hitch to the house.  He has good hands.  Polished route runner.  Ball tracking skills are up there with Desean. The whole 9 yards aside from his size.  As for his injury, I doubt he drops as far as the late 2nd.  I can see early 2nd maybe mid 2nd around our pick at worst?  Kiper in his mock draft show said he doesn't think it will effect his draft status at all.  I've read some saying a lisfranc injury can effect a player that relies on speed heavily like Brown and then read somewhere that its something that's typically recoverable.  So I got to digest some more the implications of the injury. 

 

As for the QB discussion being boring when its a major focus.  Its fair but to each their own on this.  I think that's going to be a key topic of this draft here and everywhere else pertaining to this team and for obvious reasons unless they make a major move in FA.    And anyone can switch the conversation on this thread on a dime from QB to any other position.  That's the cool thing about this thread.   Last year there was a lot of focus on RBs because it was clear that was going down so a lot of attention on that topic.  This year looks like QB is going down but FA could change all of that.

 

Back to the idea of a speedy receiver.  I hyped Parris Campbell on that front some during the season along with Marquise.  But post senior bowl, his teammate, McLaurin, seems intriguing on the same front.  3rd-4th rounder type?  Very interested in his numbers at the combine. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I admit this looks cool  😀

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

Personally, I hate seeing us take a player with a questionable injury because Skins have that problem with injuries anyway.  I know players recover from LF but he plays a skill position which worries me - see Josh Doctson.  Some team is going to pick him up in the 2nd.  I believe DK Metcaff is the jewel in this draft!  

 

 

 

That was a great inside move and his burst there to get open was impressive. You do realize that Metcalf also has had health issues, right? He was just cleared after a neck surgery. I can't even really find what his diagnosis was. 


We could go 2008 again and draft Metcalf in the first and Brown in the second!

 

 

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