2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[mistertim]

@Skinsinparadisethat was something I noticed when watching cutups of Lock as well. When he got pressured he seemed to panic a bit and often short armed it or side armed it. The occasional short/sidearm in general isn't that big of a deal to me as almost every QB has to do some improvising and do something unorthodox to make a play every so often. What worried me more was that he tended to look a bit panicked when he did it. It didn't appear to simply be an adjustment he had to make when off base or what have you, but an instinct reaction to having pressure around him. That worries me along with what I said a while back about his accuracy in general when pressured.

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, bowhunter said:

We really can't afford Foles, without gutting the team, and then..what's the point? But, where he ends up is a bit of a wild card. If he ends up being signed by NYG, Jax, Cincy, or Miami then we have much better chances of having Murray, Haskins or (don't look Volsmet) Grier being at 15 for us.

 

I don't advocate getting Foles, but we can get him without gutting the roster, we have several absurb contacts on the books. 

[Going Commando]

5 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

For a team that is extremely lacking in team speed on offense and suffers as an offense whenever Chris Thompson is hurt, I can't think of a more Redskins like move than drafting Bryce Love. The Skins love drafting injured players and I could easily see us viewing him as a value pick in the 3rd or 4th. 

 

Bryce Love's speed is dynamic.  He's more than just a speed merchant though, he has genuine elusiveness.  Such an easy gate as a runner, everything is perfectly in sync, and he can cut his way through the trash to get to the second and third levels.  That's what separates him from Darrell Henderson.

 

That said, I don't see him offering value in the third or fourth.  You can't take a RB that just tore his ACL that high.  If it were some other position, maybe.  But the relatively low draft value of the RB position plus only being able to carry three or four on a roster means it is really hard to draft a guy early knowing that you have to redshirt him.

 

-  I would gladly draft David Montgomery in the second round and I would start him and have him be the workhorse for the offense next season.  After that, my enthusiasm for taking a RB starts going down. 

- I like Josh Jacobs and Damien Harris but I think both of them will get taken between our first and second round picks--earlier than I'd like to select players I view as inferior to Montgomery.

- Singletary is exciting but he's going to get picked too high, and the track record of players like him being able to stay healthy and productive isn't super encouraging.

 

If we're looking for speed, Darrell Henderson in the late third or fourth round feels like better value in that range than Love.  He's a lesser talent, but he's healthy and he's just as fast and productive.

 

Montgomery (2nd), Jacobs (2nd), Harris (2nd), Singletary (2nd/3rd), Henderson (3rd/4th), Dexter Williams (4th), Trayveon Williams (5th), and Love (6th) are the only RBs I would draft this year.  It's a top heavy class full of jobbers who would have a hard time beating any of the guys we already have for a roster spot.

[Anselmheifer]

47 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Bryce Love's speed is dynamic.  He's more than just a speed merchant though, he has genuine elusiveness.  Such an easy gate as a runner, everything is perfectly in sync, and he can cut his way through the trash to get to the second and third levels.  That's what separates him from Darrell Henderson.

 

That said, I don't see him offering value in the third or fourth.  You can't take a RB that just tore his ACL that high.  If it were some other position, maybe.  But the relatively low draft value of the RB position plus only being able to carry three or four on a roster means it is really hard to draft a guy early knowing that you have to redshirt him.

 

Just to clarify, I also don't see him as a value in the 3rd or a 4th. I singled him out as a redskins kind of pick. Fast player that at one time was valued more highly and dropped because of an injury. I don't particularly like him. 

 

Also, I second all of your thoughts on Abraham. I really like him. He's ridiculously fast flying in on run support or flying to the sideline. I think he can single cover a lot of receivers/TE's/backs well. 

Volsmet, I absolutely don't think Grier has an arm anything like that of Lock. Lock has an elite NFL arm. A Matt Stafford, Jeff George type arm. I was just pointing out that I think Grier's arm weakness might be over stated. Also, did anyone else notice that they also measured RPM's on the ball at the Senior Bowl. Super interesting, and it's the first time I've ever heard of that, but it makes sense. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

@Skinsinparadisethat was something I noticed when watching cutups of Lock as well. When he got pressured he seemed to panic a bit and often short armed it or side armed it. The occasional short/sidearm in general isn't that big of a deal to me as almost every QB has to do some improvising and do something unorthodox to make a play every so often. What worried me more was that he tended to look a bit panicked when he did it. It didn't appear to simply be an adjustment he had to make when off base or what have you, but an instinct reaction to having pressure around him. That worries me along with what I said a while back about his accuracy in general when pressured.

 

Yeah its weird for a dude with a rocket he tends to under throw some of the short passes especially under pressure.  Wonder if that can be coached out of him.   But he has the type of arm I love, one where he can fling it even if he can't set his feet.  It's effortless. 

[HigSkin]

A couple of interesting tidbits if true...FWIW and unverified...

 

 

[RWJ]

27 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

A couple of interesting tidbits if true...FWIW and unverified...

 

 

Thanks HigSkin.  You and SIP give some of the best post in ES.   

[Est.1974]

15 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

I think Gruden will believe he can develop Daniel Jones. Seems like a fit to me, however unpopular. After that, Stidham at the end of the third with the Cousins comp pick. That's the direction I think we'll go in the draft with QBs.

 

Yep, Jones or Stidham for my money.

[mistertim]

Jones would be such an incredibly uninspiring pick to me, especially at 15 overall. There doesn't seem to be anything he's particularly great at. He's just...mediocre to decent at a bunch of stuff. The only thing above average about him is his size and ability to move as such a big dude. Though one thing I will give to him is that his protection was **** so he seems to be pretty tough and not scared to take a hit. But are those things really enough to look past his pure mediocrity at everything else? Seems lots of people are putting too much stock into the fact that he was coached by the same dude who coached the Mannings on and off.

 

And his personality seems to be the exact same way...really boring and nothing stands out about it. I think in a better QB draft he'd be a 3rd rounder maybe. 

[Skinsinparadise]

The Stevedraft guy I follow on twitter but he's just a guy like anyone here.  He just puts his thoughts on twitter, that's all.  I recall from his tweets he has a massive man crush on Grier and Metcalf and some other guys.   

 

I don't buy that he all of a sudden is an insider.  I just listened to Finlay-Keim in a long podcast about QBs and they have no scoop yet about who the Redskins likes but somehow that dude does?  

 

All he seems to be doing is reading the tea leaves just like we all do here and just claim that those tea leaves is insider info.

 

Tea leaves:

 

Kevin O'Connell (as I and others have talked about) coached Stidham and Murray in a QB camp years back

 

Doug Williams was at Daniel Jones' bowl game and got lots of play for it.  Then Walter Football mentioned that they heard they liked Jones and keep bringing that up in their mock drafts.

 

Stevedraft guy makes a big case that O'Connell would loom large in the decision -- telling everyone (which all of us already knew) that O'Connell was the one at the Senior Bowl.  And Jay wasn't there.

 

So yeah everything he is saying is public information -- he's just acting like its somewhat secretive and making obvious conclusions from the tidbits.  We all do the same (including me) but we don't pretend we are hearing it directly from the team or a special source that just talks to us. 

 

To play the Stevedraft card some more.  Meaning tidbits beat guys are throwing out there.

 

I keep hearing Bridgewater in FA as a hypothetical example of the type of player the Redskins might pursue.  Keim said it again on that podcast I listened to.  He's not saying for sure they like him but it seems odd that the dude's name has been brought up with multiple beat guys as a hypothetical name in FA.  But none of them say they've heard the Redskins like him.  So not sure if that's coincidence that his name keeps being brought up or a hint. 

 

I'd summarize Keim-Finlay's takes is they don't know.  And the reason why I find that point relevant is I recall before the combine guys like Payne were already thrown out there as a player of interest.  Ultimately last year we kept hearing:  Payne, Vea, D. James, M. Fitzpatrick, Guice.  Clearly, there was some fire to that smoke.  But right now it seems to be nada.  And I try to listen to everything.  My point is i am guessing unlike last off season where they had an early beat on what they were going to do -- i am guessing they haven't figured it out yet this year.

 

The combine is typically big for QB in the context of the interviews so I am presuming we will start hearing an occasional leak at that point or subtle hint.  Keim and Finlay and Hoffman are all guessing right now that they don't trade up, more likely take a QB later in the draft, unless someone they like falls in their lap at 15.  But I am guessing they are just guessing on that front now. 

 

Edit:   None of that was directed at Higskin for posting those tweets.  I am glad he shared them.  I've seen those tweets, I considered posting them here myself.  I consider those tweets though just connecting the dots points -- some of which we've made already here.  But gossip even if its just connecting dots are fun.  Just felt that dude, Stevedraft, is taking it a bit far by all of a sudden acting like he's a reporter.

 

[RWJ]

The one area that is going to possibly hurt Jones is his interviews at the Combine.  His performance at the Combine should he participate and his Pro Day will be factors as well as we all know.  Shall be interesting.  Here's hoping for Murray.  

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, RWJ said:

The one area that is going to possibly hurt Jones is his interviews at the Combine.  His performance at the Combine should he participate and his Pro Day will be factors as well as we all know.  Shall be interesting.  Here's hoping for Murray.  

 

I'd add the one thing Keim likes to say is the wildcard will be do the Redskins feel the need to make a splash and he thinks that's possible.

 

Speaking of which here's an article about the 5 teams who can be on hard knocks. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001017981/article/hard-knocks-team-in-2019-ranking-the-five-eligible-candidates

4) Washington Redskins: Speaking of cliffs, we fall off pretty hard after the top three options. Let's face it: The Redskins are not the most exciting team in the league right now, and Alex Smith's devastating leg injury could set the stage for the most depressing quarterback competition in Washington since John Beck and Rex Grossman traded errant haymakers back in 2011. If nothing else, that battle did give birth to my favorite quote in my nearly nine years at NFL Media. Mike Shanahan: "I believe in 'em. And I've been doing this for a long time. And I put my reputation on these guys that they can play." Whoops.

[RWJ]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd add the one thing Keim likes to say is the wildcard will be do the Redskins feel the need to make a splash and he thinks that's possible.

 

Speaking of which here's an article about the 5 teams who can be on hard knocks. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001017981/article/hard-knocks-team-in-2019-ranking-the-five-eligible-candidates

4) Washington Redskins: Speaking of cliffs, we fall off pretty hard after the top three options. Let's face it: The Redskins are not the most exciting team in the league right now, and Alex Smith's devastating leg injury could set the stage for the most depressing quarterback competition in Washington since John Beck and Rex Grossman traded errant haymakers back in 2011. If nothing else, that battle did give birth to my favorite quote in my nearly nine years at NFL Media. Mike Shanahan: "I believe in 'em. And I've been doing this for a long time. And I put my reputation on these guys that they can play." Whoops.

I do too but what would be a Redskin's splash if drafting a QB in the draft:  Murray, Lock or Jones?

[Skinsinparadise]

This wasn't me below posting to stevedraft but that dude just now made the same point I did but more rudely, LOL.  Steve had something good going, post about the draft, read tea leaves, chat about the draft -- he spoiled it by pretending out of the blue that he has a direct source with the team, taking it too far. 😀

 

 

 

[mistertim]

13 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I do too but what would be a Redskin's splash if drafting a QB in the draft:  Murray, Lock or Jones?

 

I can't see how Jones would be a splash, seeing how "meh" he is in almost every way. Murray would absolutely be a splash. Lock, sort of because of the cannon arm.

 

Unless they traded up to get Jones. But that wouldn't be so much a "splash" as a "belly flop", and an even more depressing one than usual at that.

[Going Commando]

I would just like to point out that I am not SteveDraft and I would never have a mancrush on Will Grier.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I do too but what would be a Redskin's splash if drafting a QB in the draft:  Murray, Lock or Jones?

 

Only Murray IMO.   Jones would be the anti-splash.  Once fans see that the dude is mostly a guy who throws short passes, is turnover prone and his personality comes off like a wall flower - fans I think would be quickly underwhelmed.

 

Lock might have some sneaky appeal.  At first probably nothing.  But the dude is a gunslinger with a fun personality so I think fans might ultimately dig.  But if they want national attention-hype its Murray.  Maybe Haskins would provide some.  But Murray top draw. 

 

 

[RWJ]

What I was trying to convey and sorry I didn't is the mind thinking of splash in terms of Allen, Snyder, Gruden and etc..

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, stevemcqueen1 said:

I would just like to point out that I am not SteveDraft and I would never have a mancrush on Will Grier.

 

LOL, yeah I knew that.  He's also not an X and O's guy like you.  So even though he's a self proclaimed draft guy -- he doesn't really say a heck of a lot aside from talking about guys he likes without much detail behind it.   You like different players from the dude and bring real substance. 

 

That dude is an all right guy so I was cool with him -- but the dude acting like he's a reporter out of nowhere was just odd. 

Just now, RWJ said:

What I was trying to convey and sorry I didn't is the mind thinking of splash in terms of Allen, Snyder, Gruden and etc..

 

You mean what do we think they think would be a splash?  Yeah it wouldn't shock me if they (especially Bruce) thought any QB would represent a splash especially if its one in the first few rounds.  Wondering if Rypien is tempting to them on that front too for obvious reasons. 

[RWJ]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

LOL, yeah I knew that.  He's also not an X and O's guy like you.  So even though he's a self proclaimed draft guy -- he doesn't really say a heck of a lot aside from talking about guys he likes without much detail behind it.   You like different players from the dude and bring real substance. 

 

That dude is an all right guy so I was cool with him -- but the dude acting like he's a reporter out of nowhere was just odd. 

 

You mean what do we think they think would be a splash?  Yeah it wouldn't shock me if they (especially Bruce) thought any QB would represent a splash especially if its one in the first few rounds.  Wondering if Rypien is tempting to them on that front too for obvious reasons. 

Two QBs that I think best fit Gruden's O after briefly looking over the top 15 in the draft are:  Stidham and Rypien.  Not saying that's who I would want but think that Gruden's system fits them.

[mistertim]

I have a hard time seeing Gruden pushing for a guy like Murray, mostly because Gruden is such an excruciatingly boring, predictable, and unimaginative play caller and seems to like his QBs to be along the same lines. I doubt he'd be able to truly utilize Murray successfully, which is one of the reasons I'm not really up on Murray here. I think he's a fascinating prospect with some amazing talent (as well as some question marks) but IMO he's gonna need to go to a team with the right coach who is flexible, unconventional, and willing to create his offense to suit the players he has. Gruden is basically the antithesis of that. 

 

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

I have a hard time seeing Gruden pushing for a guy like Murray, mostly because Gruden is such an excruciatingly boring, predictable, and unimaginative play caller and seems to like his QBs to be along the same lines. I doubt he'd be able to truly utilize Murray successfully, which is one of the reasons I'm not really up on Murray here. I think he's a fascinating prospect with some amazing talent (as well as some question marks) but IMO he's gonna need to go to a team with the right coach who is flexible, unconventional, and willing to create his offense to suit the players he has. Gruden is basically the antithesis of that. 

 

Here's the thing, I think O' Connell would thrive with a QB like Murray and he might be the heir apparent to Gruden.  Just a thought.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, RWJ said:

Here's the thing, I think O' Connell would thrive with a QB like Murray and he might be the heir apparent to Gruden.  Just a thought.

 

You may very well be right. But the question then is...as a brand new OC how much sway would O'Connell truly have?

[Anselmheifer]

Can anyone name 3 collegiate QB's that has ever had stats as bad as Daniel Jones and gone on to play well enough to justify the 15th pick in the first round? I can't name one. 

[RWJ]

16 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

You may very well be right. But the question then is...as a brand new OC how much sway would O'Connell truly have?

He was the only reported coach down in Mobile as Jay was up in DC interviewing potential coaches.  We can only guess but O'Connell has some respect from the FO.