MMQB: How Su'a Cravens fell apart..

[bowhunter]

6 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

 

Pick 163 was Tim Settle

 

It's not this simple, but you could essentially say the team trade Cravens for Tim Settle and not be that far off. And again, there is a possibility of a 2020 6th round pick.

Wow, that makes me feel better about the "trade."  The loss of S'ua's "potential" was a great one, but Settles upside is equally bright. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Cravens’ comments were all incredibly self-serving...not surprising considering he has a grievance ongoing but still also show a significant immaturity and rationalization at play. Not one word by Cravens taking responsibility for anything, at all. Zero. And it was telling how he felt he would have been welcomed back in the locker room but Bruce Allen wouldn’t have allowed it...only to hear comment after comment from players about how pissed off they were at him and that welcoming him back would have been tough. Allen is an easy scapegoat to throw out as the “real” culprit by some because they know it will be believed immediately by a certain segment of the fan base and media without question, even if there are facts that say otherwise.

 

The dude just has no self-awareness, at all. 

 

Did the article mention his jersey give-away after being shut down for the season? Because it said that Craven’s agent told him to stay in the area after the Skins put him on the “left team” list because him leaving would make it appear even more as if he quit/retired...so I imagine publicly giving away all his team jerseys like a week after being put on the list would have been insanely counter-productive lol...no doubt Cravens would have said “yes, I did give away all my jerseys, but I didn’t quit the team.”

[crabbypatty]

19 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

Cravens’ comments were all incredibly self-serving...not surprising considering he has a grievance ongoing but still also show a significant immaturity and rationalization at play. Not one word by Cravens taking responsibility for anything, at all. Zero. And it was telling how he felt he would have been welcomed back in the locker room but Bruce Allen wouldn’t have allowed it...only to hear comment after comment from players about how pissed off they were at him and that welcoming him back would have been tough. Allen is an easy scapegoat to throw out as the “real” culprit by some because they know it will be believed immediately by a certain segment of the fan base and media without question, even if there are facts that say otherwise.

 

The dude just has no self-awareness, at all. 

 

 

 

You summed up what I was thinking. Literally EVERYTHING involving his time here was someone or something else's fault. Not one single shred of personal accountability for any of it.

The guy is a piece of trash, concussion or no. Extremely immature, a social media dependent low self esteem millennial.

[ddyork]

Sue is a fraud and a manipulative liar.  Glad he is gone.  Time to move on....

[Warhead36]

Not everyone has it in them to play football at this level. Sua is one of those guys.

[Bonez3]

17 hours ago, megared said:

 

But it was ownership through coaches that all operated in that manner.  I can't assess Gruden the way you would Gibbs because the overall franchise influence doesn't compare.  I think the FO from that time dealt with problematic players at different points, with the goal of finding common ground to achieve the overall goal of winning.  

 

Our current FO seems to villianize someone new every year, to deflect attention and scrutiny from themselves and the job they're doing.    I didn't agree with cutting losses with Cravens, but whatever it's their decision...but devoting the effort they have, time and time again to leak stories and damage people...it's just sinister. 

 

At what point do you expect us to not look at you and wonder why we find ourselves in the same situation time and time again?  Even if you can find a way to defend the FO's actions...at what point do we move beyond this unnecessary foolishness?

I think one thing I would uncouple with what you're saying is the 'credibility' of the FO vs working to keep Su'a and finding common ground.

 

You seem to be in a slim minority of people who think he was salvageable. I'll go as far as to bet internet pride with you that he fails time and time again going forward. 

 

As many have said here, he is manipulative, untruthful and not all right. He will fail in Denver and likely anywhere else he goes in football. Internet bet

[EasternNCbywayofNOVA]

Cravens reminds me of Malik Henry from last chance U. Strange individual with serious maturity issues. 

[RawRebel]

17 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

So I guess Scherff, Matt I., and Fuller weren’t hits?  And Doctson has a ton of potential to be a hit as well, and is a starter. 

 

Drafting just two starters is considered a solid draft. We drafted 6 in two years. 

Was Dunbar and Mo Harris  two of his draft picks?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Scot picked some clunkers with valuable top round draft picks but overall he helped restock the roster with good talent. This is contingent upon Doctson panning out, tho lol...

[stan-the-redskinfan]

Deja vu.  Happy he’s someone else’s problem now.

 

https://247sports.com/Article/Time-to-start-worrying-about-the-absence-of-safety-Sua-Cravens-from-Broncos-Camp-120717030/

[KillBill26]

4 hours ago, RawRebel said:

Was Dunbar and Mo Harris  two of his draft picks?

Both were undrafted free agents brought on during gmsm's tenure. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 hours ago, stan-the-redskinfan said:

Deja vu.  Happy he’s someone else’s problem now.

 

https://247sports.com/Article/Time-to-start-worrying-about-the-absence-of-safety-Sua-Cravens-from-Broncos-Camp-120717030/

 

[Butters20]

craven. A fitting last name 

[CutPryorNow]

I would have traded him for a good peanut butter and honey sandwich

[megared]

8 hours ago, Bonez3 said:

I think one thing I would uncouple with what you're saying is the 'credibility' of the FO vs working to keep Su'a and finding common ground.

 

You seem to be in a slim minority of people who think he was salvageable. I'll go as far as to bet internet pride with you that he fails time and time again going forward. 

 

As many have said here, he is manipulative, untruthful and not all right. He will fail in Denver and likely anywhere else he goes in football. Internet bet

 

Last time I'll say it...with everything he had going on, I think it's harsh to call the guy all of those things.  Head injuries are very real...do you think the same symptoms that show up in the retired guys, to the point where they become suicidal, only appear once they're through playing?  A lot of active players deal with lingering effects from head injuries.  Furthermore, I don't think one of the foremost experts in diagnosing head injuries is going to put his reputation on the line to give Su'a Cravens a sick note.  

 

Thinking more about it, it bothers me that this story says he told the Gruden he was struggling, and Gruden pretty much told him 'you'll be alright'.  It appears no additional support was offered until the guy said he wanted to retire.  I guess I can be realistic and/or jaded enough to see that regardless of who was 'right' or 'wrong', I'd like to think the team I'm a fan of would've handled a situation like that better.   

 

I honestly don't care whether the guy fails or succeeds.  I just don't think the front office handled the situation tactfully.  Once again, vendettas/personal scores meant more than a meaningful resolution.  If you disagree, tell me why all of this information was leaked about Cravens before he was traded?  If you really are thinking about trading him, why devalue the guy through the press?  Because to this current FO setup, public opinion means more than winning.  

[Mr.Will]

He’ll be out the league before his 2nd year is up in Denver(hell,the way he’s going now-he might not even be there after this year!!!)..all I can say is-Thx Denver for the extra pick!!

[Darrell Green Fan]

On 8/17/2018 at 10:10 AM, TMK9973 said:

RG3 Came back too early. We pretty much all agree on that no?  We also agree that he probably shouldn't have played the 2nd half of the playoff game. That him wanting to "push" thru it just hurt him more.

 

I know that we have a stigma in the country about mental illness. We talk like we understand its real - but then tell people that suffer that they just need to "Relex" or "Move on". When those that suffer takes meds we say "Meds are oversubscribed" and think things like "Man - That person is week. Having to take prozac" and then we laugh and drink and when we wake up with a headache - we grab the Advil and never think twice.

 

For those that have suffered thru a mental illness or have a loved one that does -they know. This is real. Su'a wants to point to the concision - and maybe thats true -or maybe its always been a issue.  Its not uncommon for someone who suffers thru mental illness to want to point to a incident or event and put blame on it (Look up PANDA. Which has no scientific backing or medical proof exists- but it often cited by people as the reason their child has mental illness).  This stigma leads to people also scare to get the treatment they needed (The Article mentions that he saw a physiologist who wanted to give him meds. Su'a didnt want to do that. Im sure he thought it made him look week.)

 

The anxiety, paranoia, be sure of events that everyone said didn't happen.  

The young man is suffering.  I dont think its the Redskins fault. The Redskins are a business -Their job is not to take care of every person that works for them. It would be a great story if they did -but i dont blame them for not. They are not a health care factory. They are business whose job it is to play football and win.  

 

But at the same time - Su'a owes them NOTHING.  The man is injured. Its just a mental illness and not physical.  I hope he gets the treatment he needs and get better. With or without football.  

 

What qualifications do you have that can make us all conclude that Cravens has a mental illness?   It is possible that he is just a selfish quitter who blames others for much of his problems.  

[benskins26]

I can’t wait to see him wash out of Denver. All their fans were so douchie about that trade. Reminded me of the Pats-haynesworth one. How the redskins are so pathetic they can’t manage this guy, but this glorious franchise will. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

We spend too much time talking about this guy, IMO.  Glad he's not our problem anymore, glad he's Denver's.  

[Darrell Green Fan]

I don't think there is anything wrong with discussing a former 2nd round pick who ended his career here in such a bizarre way.   Seems to be a more interesting topic than the 100 posts about Kelly and Perine.  

[Bang]

fail, blame someone else.

fail, blame someone else.

 

Sounds like a lot of people anymore. I get concussions can be scary and cause lingering issues, but it's been a couple of years now...

From the article above on his absence from Denver practices: 
 

Quote

 

I can see how the Broncos got caught up in their vision for Cravens, and how he could impact the defense — not just in 2018 but beyond. Unfortunately, based on his continued absence from training camp practices, the ‘beyond’ is looking more and more like the most realistic expectation.

You can’t make the club from the tub, as the old cliche goes, and while Cravens’ spot on the roster might not currently be in doubt, his active role on the defense most certainly is.

 

Sounds like he's finally found what he wants. Someone to pay him for doing nothing. they need to remove that safety net, put him on the bubble and see if it spurs anything.. because if they don't, he won't.

That boy needs to grow up. it's not about whether or not he wants to play the game, or if he is questioning his commitment due to health concerns. He plain and simple needs to grow up and accept responsibility for himself.

 

~Bang

 

[SkinsGuy]

I was watching the preseason game with the Broncos on NFL Network, and they showed the projected starting secondary line-up for Denver.

 

Cravens wasn't on it.

[TMK9973]

On 8/19/2018 at 7:29 AM, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

What qualifications do you have that can make us all conclude that Cravens has a mental illness?   It is possible that he is just a selfish quitter who blames others for much of his problems.  

What qualifications do you have that he doesn't?

 

Im also not a medical Dr but when I see someone who is normally fast and smooth running slow and limping I have a pretty good guess that he has a physical injury. 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

4 minutes ago, TMK9973 said:

What qualifications do you have that he doesn't?

 

Im also not a medical Dr but when I see someone who is normally fast and smooth running slow and limping I have a pretty good guess that he has a physical injury. 

 

 

Or he's faking or exaggerating it. If you're not a doctor chances are you won't be able to tell the difference.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

40 minutes ago, TMK9973 said:

What qualifications do you have that he doesn't?

 

Im also not a medical Dr but when I see someone who is normally fast and smooth running slow and limping I have a pretty good guess that he has a physical injury. 

 

 

Regardless of what anyone thinks about the guy or if they believe he was suffering from symptoms lingering from his concussion or not, the fact is that he sought a 2nd opinion and was diagnosed by a medical doctor as having them who also did not clear him to play football. 

 

We also learned that his agent contacted the team and told them he would be reporting on a Tuesday to talk to the team and then they place him on the reserve/left squad list on Monday.  After telling him he had time (30 days) to seek a 2nd opinion, work out his family issues and make a decision.  Regardless of what you think about the guy, that was a pretty ****ty thing for the team to do.  

 

I'm not saying that the decision to place him on that list and not pay him was ****ty.  The way they went about doing it, if they had no intention of giving him the time off (30 days), then they should have flat out told him that if he doesn't report on whatever day, he's going on the list and be done with it. 

 

The way Sua handled it was immature (which may or may not be related to the post concussion issues - depending on what you believe), so the team did not owe him anything/time but they did tell him and the media that they were giving him time off and then did not honor it.  Why? Because the team knew he now had a diagnosis of post concussion syndrome and didn't want to deal with paying him not to play.  Thus the grievance that has been filed.  

 

It really sounds to me like the team wanted to look good in the public eye on how they handled the situation, probably thinking that no second opinions would turn up anything.  Then when it did, it put them in a position to do what they wanted to do in the first place, place him on the list and not pay him or have to actually pay him not to play.