Three little Birds thread, It's gonna be aight. Good ju-ju thread

[SWFLSkins]

27 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

This may be the single over looked part of this team. I am definitely a Jay fan but despite what people contend, the HC cannot and does not do it all. In many ways they are more like a CEO in that they define the strategy and the direction. The assistant coaches are the ones who put in the game plans and work with the players to improve and to work together as a team. Callahan, Tomsula, Manusky, all previous HCs that could have decided to try that again or just stay out of football as opposed to being assistants. Instead they joined this staff as assistants. Also lost on some is that they all had other opportunities. They could have gone to many other teams in their current roles. especially Callahan and Tomsula. That does not even cover a guy like Torrian Grey who is quickly making a positive name for himself. 

 

As hard as I am on Bruce, he does not get enough credit for his part in bringing theses coaches here. While many of us have expressed our concerns about the FO, especially Bruce, the "they are here despite Bruce" really does not make sense. We may not like him being the boss, ultimately he is. And those guys seem to be OK with it, at least from the outside. And they are definitely showing signs of guys developing. 

 

I will go a step further. Many have not seen this team develop players while they have supported them. I truly believe that's why when players are not awesome right out of the gate they just give up on them and want them gone. Developing players takes patience. On a player by player basis it's not always successful. But it appears overall the teams patience has paid off. 

 

People will likely trash this example but it's valid - Ryan Grant. Many fans did not want him here from day one. And then when he slipped and we lost the Atl game, many could never go over that. However, the coaching staff stuck with him knowing you need a 4, 5 and 6 WR. Last yr he was 2nd in recs. 3rd in yds, and tied for 2nd in TDs. That netted a Redskins a comp draft pick after having the guy for his full rookie contract. While not spectacular, he was a low cost high effort guy who can make plays for you as a backup. Yes you need special players. I think we are getting those slowly but surely. But you need a good back-end of the roster to, especially with all the injuries. With Grant they developed him, used him and then got something tangible out of him. Not bad for 5th rd pick. That's just one example.  

 

I think when Scot was hired Bruce moved onto stadiums and stuff, what a President should be doing,,,exit Scot and then look at Doug's expanded role as what they are calling the Facilitator. The FO like the Coaching staff is a collective unit. Both doing a good job is paramount to win. I hope We the fans are going to see the benefit of this cohesive unit. 

 

I give a lot of credit to Doug, people make fun of him a lot of the time for his slow Lou-see-ya draw and just say He is a figure head. Take time to listen to his words....I also think He has a lot of respect in the building and bringing the Football side together to work as One.

 

I flipped my stance on Jay last year. I think what HE and the staff did was miraculous considering the injuries, the team didn't fold, like the Giants did. And they could have easily. 

 

As for Grant, I think He was an Ok player who played a part when needed, good decision not to overpay for potential or ceiling there IMO. 

[goskins10]

17 minutes ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

I think when Scot was hired Bruce moved onto stadiums and stuff, what a President should be doing,,,exit Scot and then look at Doug's expanded role as what they are calling the Facilitator. The FO like the Coaching staff is a collective unit. Both doing a good job is paramount to win. I hope We the fans are going to see the benefit of this cohesive unit. 

 

I give a lot of credit to Doug, people make fun of him a lot of the time for his slow Lou-see-ya draw and just say He is a figure head. Take time to listen to his words....I also think He has a lot of respect in the building and bringing the Football side together to work as One.

 

I flipped my stance on Jay last year. I think what HE and the staff did was miraculous considering the injuries, the team didn't fold, like the Giants did. And they could have easily. 

 

As for Grant, I think He was an Ok player who played a part when needed, good decision not to overpay for potential or ceiling there IMO. 

 

If this had happened none of us would have the problem we do with the current FO structure. In Bruce's defense he does seem willing to take council from others. But he and the team have made it very clear he is the final decision maker, even in terms of football decisions. Many of those decisions I disagree with but this being the positive thread, I wanted to point where I think he has done well. Again, these coaches are not coming here despite Bruce, or around him. He has had a huge part bringing them and and deserves his due credit. 

 

If I made it sound like they should have kept Grant, that as not my intent at all. I agree, the right decision to let him go. Replace him with another draft pick and see what they turn into. My point was they kept him in his rookie contract, got what they could out of him, then got something in return when he left. A sign of developing players and getting the most out of them. 

[HardcoreZorn]

2 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

This may be the single over looked part of this team. I am definitely a Jay fan but despite what people contend, the HC cannot and does not do it all. In many ways they are more like a CEO in that they define the strategy and the direction. The assistant coaches are the ones who put in the game plans and work with the players to improve and to work together as a team. Callahan, Tomsula, Manusky, all previous HCs that could have decided to try that again or just stay out of football as opposed to being assistants. Instead they joined this staff as assistants. Also lost on some is that they all had other opportunities. They could have gone to many other teams in their current roles. especially Callahan and Tomsula. That does not even cover a guy like Torrian Grey who is quickly making a positive name for himself. 

 

As hard as I am on Bruce, he does not get enough credit for his part in bringing theses coaches here. While many of us have expressed our concerns about the FO, especially Bruce, the "they are here despite Bruce" really does not make sense. We may not like him being the boss, ultimately he is. And those guys seem to be OK with it, at least from the outside. And they are definitely showing signs of guys developing. 

 

I will go a step further. Many have not seen this team develop players while they have supported them. I truly believe that's why when players are not awesome right out of the gate they just give up on them and want them gone. Developing players takes patience. On a player by player basis it's not always successful. But it appears overall the teams patience has paid off. 

 

People will likely trash this example but it's valid - Ryan Grant. Many fans did not want him here from day one. And then when he slipped and we lost the Atl game, many could never go over that. However, the coaching staff stuck with him knowing you need a 4, 5 and 6 WR. Last yr he was 2nd in recs. 3rd in yds, and tied for 2nd in TDs. That netted a Redskins a comp draft pick after having the guy for his full rookie contract. While not spectacular, he was a low cost high effort guy who can make plays for you as a backup. Yes you need special players. I think we are getting those slowly but surely. But you need a good back-end of the roster to, especially with all the injuries. With Grant they developed him, used him and then got something tangible out of him. Not bad for 5th rd pick. That's just one example.  

To expand on that, what would have happened if everyone got their wish and Bruce was fired and replaced? Is jay here? Are Callahan, Tomsula, and Gray here? Kyle Smith? And at what expense of letting those guys walk out the door is it worth to fire Bruce? Perhaps a reason why Bruce is simply being phased out rather than a whole new reboot that typically comes with hiring an outside GM.

 

I can see the headline now "Did Dan Snyder pull the plug on something good too early?" Written by Jerry Brewer. And fans would be crucifying Dan for not showing enough patience lol.

 

As far as player development, yeah that's a very new concept around these parts. I remember when I was a little kid asking friends about their favorite teams something along the lines of "How are you going to replace that guy who left in free agency?" And the answer would always be "oh well you don't know who he is but so and so who we drafted in the 3rd round is going to make a name for himself." And it always seemed so strange to me lol. From 2000 until Jay, player development was not the norm. It took us until 2018 to get a gosh darn comp pick. All of these are reasons why I don't find myself in the hate Bruce Allen crowd. I think he really messed up by not netting anything for Kirk and I bet you that's when Dan had enough. But I truly think Bruce has played a relatively significant role in changing the culture around here. It will take a few playoff appearances in a row to shift that narrative though. 

[SWFLSkins]

 

[SWFLSkins]

 

[SWFLSkins]

 

[skinny21]

Did Darkwa just go for surgery?  Was this just a chance for him to get a free second opinion?

 

[Skinsinparadise]

this is good, mostly positive, except sadly the Guice part which obviously isn't going to happen.

 

 

[JSSkinz]

I don't really see a difference in how the team is being run now compared to when Scott M was here, I think they are following Scotts model and sticking with it from holding onto to draft picks, not signing aging veterans to long-term contracts and looking for players with specific personality traits.

 

I think Santos, Smith, Doug, and Bruce are following a script they didn't write and I'mn good with that, we may actually be a good team in a year or 2 if we keep it going.

[Morneblade]

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

Did Darkwa just go for surgery?  Was this just a chance for him to get a free second opinion?

 

 

Yeah, but it was to get a plate removed, that was in there from a bad break. Was supposed to be making him a little less explosive.

[SWFLSkins]

 

[Sandy Monk]

3 minutes ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

 

I think gun to head, they would concede that while possible this year, the SB is a more likely outcome next season. Still though, I'd agree that they can really make noise this season, if a few extra things don't go typically south. 

[skinny21]

I’m going to avoid the caveats and such, given the thread concept...

 

I’m starting to think there are several things that could work towards us having an average or better run game.  

One, Smith running the ball.  

Two, the defense holding leads, limiting scoring, giving the O better field position, and creating turnovers.  

Three, a better oline with Roullier emerging, and (far) better health than last year.  

Four, incorporating RO, etc.  

Five, better downfield threats to stretch the field and a healthy Reed drawing backers into coverage.  

Six, Kelley and Perine are no longer rookies.

Seven, Gruden’s faith in our D (and other factors) allowing for more rush attempts.  

Eight, good red zone threats leading to more scoring, which (along with a stout D) in turn ups the chances at more rushing attempts later in games.  

 

Feels kind of unfair to make these points (every one of which could probably be argued against) in a thread in which arguing against them goes against the spirit of the thread.  So anyone wanting to do so, feel to respond in an appropriate thread.

 

[SWFLSkins]

 

 

[redskinss]

I didn't know silverback and Peterson were friends. 

That'd be a small bonus if we signed him knowing Trent could help him get acclimated. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

14 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

I don't really see a difference in how the team is being run now compared to when Scott M was here, I think they are following Scotts model and sticking with it from holding onto to draft picks, not signing aging veterans to long-term contracts and looking for players with specific personality traits.

 

I think Santos, Smith, Doug, and Bruce are following a script they didn't write and I'mn good with that, we may actually be a good team in a year or 2 if we keep it going.

 

 

Don't buy that at all, especially the part in bold.

 

The "not signing aging veterans to long-term contracts" was Allen's (an Shanny's) MO from the get-go. That didn't happen only once Scot arrived. And I'm trying to figure out the 'personality traits' of guys Scot brought to the team like Matt Jones and Su'a Cravens. Add to it the narrative that Allen seemingly sabotaged Scot during his time here coupled with the alternate narrative of Scot seemingly boozing it up during his time here, and it starts to become difficult to believe McCloughan brought about a cultural and organizational change to the franchise and reversed 16 years of Snyder ownership simply from inhaling and exhaling at Redskins Park lol...

[goskins10]

18 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

I don't really see a difference in how the team is being run now compared to when Scott M was here, I think they are following Scotts model and sticking with it from holding onto to draft picks, not signing aging veterans to long-term contracts and looking for players with specific personality traits.

 

I think Santos, Smith, Doug, and Bruce are following a script they didn't write and I'mn good with that, we may actually be a good team in a year or 2 if we keep it going.

 

I have to agree with @Califan007 here. The change in approach to free agency and long term contracts came with Bruce Allen. He was known for it before he got here and it was nothing different when he got here. His first priority here was really to get the team out of CAP hell. They took a shot in the uncapped year. The NFL kind of screwed them but to be honest had they not did what they did, they would have been very much the same CAP hell they were in due to the penalties. It was an almost no risk but very high reward chance to take. 

 

Now I do believe how they construct a draft board is very likely something they learned from Scot M when he was here. That I could totally see. But I also do not believe they are just following a recipe and that none of them are capable of thinking for themselves. Even then, you can have a game plan but you still need to execute. And it least appears they are doing a decent job. I was on the Doug is not capable plan when he was hired. But my mind is changing. I think you can see his influence all over this team now. He is just not out in front about it like others. 

 

I still believe we need a proper GM to make the final football decisions. That being said, at least right now they seem to be making it work outside their approach to FAs that I think has now gotten a bit too conservative (I know, we fans are never happy!). 

[SWFLSkins]

 

[JSSkinz]

11 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

Don't buy that at all, especially the part in bold.

 

The "not signing aging veterans to long-term contracts" was Allen's (an Shanny's) MO from the get-go. That didn't happen only once Scot arrived. And I'm trying to figure out the 'personality traits' of guys Scot brought to the team like Matt Jones and Su'a Cravens. Add to it the narrative that Allen seemingly sabotaged Scot during his time here coupled with the alternate narrative of Scot seemingly boozing it up during his time here, and it starts to become difficult to believe McCloughan brought about a cultural and organizational change to the franchise and reversed 16 years of Snyder ownership simply from inhaling and exhaling at Redskins Park lol...

Sorry took so long to respond, been a hectic day. 

 

So somebody is responsible for doing things a little bit better than they were done prior to Scott getting here, maybe its a coincidence it started when Scott got here and I'm not sure who truly deserves the credit but I like what the team has been doing the last 4 years.  I actually think we could be a pretty decent team this year and a very good team next year if we catch a few breaks.

 

My thought was they never wanted to get rid of Scott but the drinking issues made that happen and I thought it might have been possible Scott was teaching his fundamentals to our scouts as well as Santos and Smith so once Scott was let go the FO just continued with his SOP's, of course, I have no idea what really happened, I was just spitballing.

 

[SWFLSkins]

 

 

[SWFLSkins]

 

 

[SWFLSkins]

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I’m very positive about acquiring Peterson, no matter how it plays out.  It shows me that when Jay says they’ll be looking at backs because they have to but are happy with what they have, he’s lying.  Like he should.

 

AP was the best possible option that costs nothing but a vet min contract.  I don’t see this being a Larry Johnson scenario at all.

[skinny21]

25 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’m very positive about acquiring Peterson, no matter how it plays out.  It shows me that when Jay says they’ll be looking at backs because they have to but are happy with what they have, he’s lying.  Like he should.

 

AP was the best possible option that costs nothing but a vet min contract.  I don’t see this being a Larry Johnson scenario at all.

Why does it mean he’s lying?  I’m not rushing to defend Gruden here, just curious.  And which back should he have brought in if he were telling the truth?  And why isn’t it like the Larry Johnson signing?  A vet back, past his prime, for little money that the team is taking a small chance on, not because they expect him to achieve his former glory, but rather because they need more competency/competition?

Argh, so many questions!

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Why does it mean he’s lying?  I’m not rushing to defend Gruden here, just curious.  And which back should he have brought in if he were telling the truth?  And why isn’t it like the Larry Johnson signing?  A vet back, past his prime, for little money that the team is taking a small chance on, not because they expect him to achieve his former glory, but rather because they need more competency/competition?

Argh, so many questions!

 

 

I have nothing against Gruden telling the press all is swell with the guys in house.  That’s what he’s supposed to do.  He can’t get in front of the mic and say what most of us already knew.  But he went out and took a shot on a hall of famer for a reason.  Not to sit there and watch Rob Kelley all season.

 

When I said it’s not like the Larry Johnson situation at all, I meant that I never thought Johnson had anything left, I think Peterson does.