I wish I was a Dallas fan, I really do....

[kleese]

Actually, I wish I was a fan of any other team (including Houston) in the entire league right now.

Of course, I could never jump ship, and I'll be there every week like I always have been, but the joy in watching the Redskins is gone. I don't even really find myself rooting for them as much as I spend time loathing their effort.

I love this franchise, but I hate this team.

The Cowboys suck, they suck bad, but they play with MAXIMUM EFFORT. They've been playing that way for over a decade and when they had their talent, they were 100% dominant. Now, they have holes everywhere, but they play their guts out--they lay it all on the line regardless of what they think of their owner, etc...I'm sure Cowboy fans are frustrated, but at least they can watch each week with their heads held high.

This is unbearable, it's torture. I mean it when I say we have a 0% chance to win this week in NY-- talk about polar opposites in terms of attitude.

I also mean it when I say I would start the cuts RIGHT NOW!!!!

Westbrook

Shade

Smith

Alexander

Those 4 would be gone immediatley. We have other players like Shawn Barber who are HORRIBLE but probably don't deserve to get cut quite yet.

As far as I'm concerned, we can gut this roster from top to bottom.

Jansen

Samuels

Gardner

Smoot

Champ

Lavar

Lang

I'd keep those 7 and I don't care what you do with the rest. I know it sounds sarcastic, but I'm serious. I truly wish we were in the Texans position right now.

I guess I simply don't understand, I flip the dial and I see teams like Cleveland and Atlanta flying around, playing hard, making tough plays, etc... and I look at us and I see embarrassment-- the lack of effort is incredible.

I support Marty, but you all are right-- the staff deserves blame too. Jack Kent Cooke is to blame, so is his son, Casserly, Norv, Cerrato, Snyder, etc.... everyone who has been here over the past decade or so--it's ALL of their fault.

That's what is so frustrating-- no one really knows EXACTLY what's wrong. There are so many things.

As fans, we must realize that this is OUR team more so than anyone on the roster or the coaching staff.

WE NEED TO SEND THE MESSAGE AS MUCH AS WE CAN. I would wear a bag on my head and boo my *** off every chance I got if I had tickets.

There's a big difference between jumping ship and voicing your disgust.

And this is disgusting.

Sept. 30th and the Redskins season is over-- maybe 2002 as well.

This is somewhat of a rant of course, but I don't think my mood will lighten this week-- there will be NO looking forward to the Giants game and no goosebumps Saturday morning. It's almost like I'm pulling for NY- they deserve it more.

This team means so much to me and it makes me sick to see it like this.

No more hating Dallas for me (this year at least)-- I respect them and I am sitting here atcually rooting for them because with their effort and intensity they deserve a W.

[RySkins]

I agree kleese. I really felt like it was torture sitting in that empty stadium watching the second half today. It got to the point today where eveyone left in the place laughed when worthless Alexander got hit by the ball without even knowing it was being thrown to him. I think I also laughed the next play when Lockett dropped a ball that he probably would have taken to the house had he caught. I actually felt worse watching this game than the previous two, seeing the team completely give up by the second quarter. The effort of our defense was the most putrid thing I have ever seen on a football field. Dallas sucks, but they play with the heart and determination that I wish we played with. I'm rooting for them tonight too. I think they'll blow us off the field in two weeks and embarass us on Monday Night Football.

I would cut all the players you mentioned kleese. Shawn the "playmaker Barber? I almost fell to the ground when I saw that promo during the game last week from this self-proclaimed star. Barber is bumb and a punk. I'm glad we didn't give him a long term deal.

The highlight of the week is the Redskins game. Thats what gets me threw every week, the anticipation of Sunday or Monday's game. This is killing me! I'm not kidding when I say that at some point during my life I will likely have a heart attack during a Redskins game. I am sickened and embarassed by what I am seeing on the field!

[kleese]

It hurts, it really does. Today is lowest point I've ever had as a Redskins fan. They've take one of the biggest joys in my life and stomped on it-- basically eliminated it. The lack of effort and/or enthusiasm is unbearable.

How long will it take to rebuild? Who knows. With smart moves, etc.. we could be 9-7 and in the playoffs NEXT YEAR--just look around the league and you'll see all kinds of quick turnaround stories. However, this could also VERY EASILY be a 3, 5, or even 10+ year process. We hired Norv prior to the 1994 season and we're still waiting for that "rebuilding" process to come to light. Someday we may be talking about those dark years from 1993-2009-- who knows?

But IT CAN'T get worse. This IS rock bottom. The Giants and Cowboys could beat us 200-0 and it wouldn't make me feel worse.

I wish I could just turn it off and not care, but that's the torture of it. What can you do? It's horrible.

[Fitz]

Since I saw my first game with my dad at the age of six, I can't remember a worse three-game stretch of football from the Skins. Nothing has come close to this mind-numbing display of incompetence except, perhaps, Pardee's last year when the team started 3-10. Even Norv's 0-7 start included some competitive games.

The maddening thing is that I can't figure out why the team is this bad. Some are calling for a bloodletting from the roster, but if you cut everyone whose hasn't been putting out their best effort so far, you'd end up with Lang, Smoot and a couple of offensive linemen on the team. We know guys like Barber and Westbrook have talent and can perform much better than this, we've seen it with our own eyes. Are they deliberately playing badly because they don't like Marty? It's a ridiculous notion that NFL players would commit professional suicide like that. Is it all Marty's fault? Has two years away from the game caused him to forget everything that made him the twelfth winningest coach in the NFL? I find that a little hard to believe as well. While a scorched-earth approach might provide some temporary satisfaction to the more bloodthirsty among us, I doubt that it would improve things now.

What we are seeing is a confluence of ineptitude; everybody is off their game and nobody seems to be able to put forth a professional effort, either among the players or coaches. There is no single cause you can point to. So many things are going wrong that there is a snowball effect that is killing the team's confidence. They don't have the resilience to handle any kind of setback. When one thing goes wrong, the team comes apart at the seams and crashes like a house of cards. Today, they had a crisp opening drive, moving the ball just as the offense is designed to do. But they couldn't get a break on either out-of-bounds call, and things went downhill after that, despite the two play TD drive.

The only thing to do at this point is to wait for the team to bottom out. While it may not seem to some of us that things could get worse, I don't think that's the perception the players have. When the team as a whole figures they have nothing left to lose, the finger pointing and excuses and petty sh!t will stop, and hopefully, they will begin to put things together. Otherwise, they will bail on the season and the dismantling and rebuilding will begin in earnest next offseason.

[kleese]

Yes, this is the worst....ever. The Norv era was full of frustration, etc... and I cringe when I hear the media defend him. A lot of people deserve blame for the demise of this franchise, but no one more so than Norv.

However, even during his tenure here, I never felt THIS bad. I can clearly remember jumping for joy when we beat Detroit in overtime to "climb" to 3-5 in 1995.

Those teams were sloppy, and we NEVER able to elevate their level of play in a game that really mattered, but they didn't lay down and die either-- generally speaking, I was "into" the season at least through Thanksgiving each year.

This is by far the earliest my interest has faded ever.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not apologizing to or wishing we had Norv back....no way... but simply as a note of comparison it should show you how bad we truly are right now.

[KevinthePRF]

In regards to your original subject heading, no I don't.

I think Dallas' problems lie in Jerry Jones, and his ability as a GM. The Redskins problems lie in it's personel on the field. And how it doesn't fit in any waist shape or form right now into Marty's system which is easier to fix over a year or two.

The reason Dallas at least is showing signs of life early in games, is it has leadership left over among it's players

in guys like Woodson, Emmitt, Coakley, and Larry Allen.

Marty on the other hand was forced to rely on the pseudo leadership of guys like George, Barber, Smith, and Westbrook whose heads are obviously in greener pastures of retirement or free agency.

We have players that can step up as leaders once their learning curve is complete and our team is completely purged of these negative influences so they can step in.

Our problems are at the bottom of the totem pole, not at the top, so our situation is essentially better IMO. Therefore I'm still proud to be a Redskin fan, and will appreciate the good times even more because of suffering through bad times like these.

[Henry]

No way am I ever rooting for Dallas under any circumstances.

However, I have found myself rooting for New York and Philly. The NFC East has arguably the three worst teams in the league right now. We have become the NFC West. The Giants and Eagles are the onyl things keeping the entire division from becoming a complete laughing stock.

I'm too depressed to write anymore. What a mess.

------------------

"Men, there's nothing to get excited about. The situation is normal; we are surrounded."

[NavyDave]

Another year of purging and then Marty can put his stamp officially on the team

------------------

Take a sip of the Marty KoolAid and Believe

[Joe a Cowboys fan]

I think Kevin is right. Of course I am a Dallas fan. Before you guys flagillate yourselves much more remember the Skins teams have been worse, for that matter so have the Cowboys.

Since this summer sprts casters and writers have been dumping on Dallas. Last night was a good example of why, we stank on O, D and STs. Most of the Dallas fans have decided we will watch for improvement. Other than JJ there haven't been a lot of 10-6 believers as far as I could tell.

Like Dallas you might as well take your lumps and see who can play. Both teams have contender opponents next week. Giants and Raidahs. Lets see who is mad as hell and will not take it anymore on our respective teams. Alright?

[Brave]

Kleese - You've put your finger on THE major problem IMHO. No spirit, spark, enthusiasm ... whatever. We're a "dead" football team and we have been for years. Even when winning in '99 we looked tired. And sharing the blame between everyone over the last decade ...well, that's fine. Everyone probably DOES bear some of the blame, though certainly to different degrees.

However, Kleese, a statement like this:

"No more hating Dallas for me (this year at least)-- I respect them and I am sitting here actually rooting for them because ..."

is blasphemy! I agree with a lot of your post, but admiring the "evil empire" isn't going to help things. So they fly around and play hard ... and they do ... but so do most other teams in the league. We're the only ones that look like we pass out valium in the locker room prior to games. Pulling for underdogs that try hard is fine ... but actually ROOTING for Dallas is comparable to supporting the Taliban and bin Laden. They are the enemy!

[kleese]

I'm not a Dallas fan by any means, but it's hard to hate a team when the games you play against them mean nada. Really, the "rivalry" hasn't been very intesne over the past 15 years or so. Of course, there have been a few moments (1992 in RFK, opener in 1999), but overall, one team has generally been dominant over the other and the games have been little blips on the radar screen.

It was great up until somewhere around the mid 80's when they really fell off the map and we were a Super Bowl caliber team. Then, those roles switched around 1993.

And now, it's actually kind of embarrassing. That Monday Nighter is looking brutal-- I feel very sorry for ABC. You can't build up a rivalry between two 0-4 teams-- this isn't college football.

Basically, it's just hard to hate another team when you're too busy hating your own.

[shamaran]

I don't know about anybody else, but for me the Dallass game in two weeks represents a lot to look forward too.

When we play these bums with stars on their helmets, the records of both teams mean squat! It is our first, best opportunity to beat someone; the fact that it is Dallass just makes it that much better!

Ask Tony Banks if he's excited, and hell, he's only been a Redskin for two months!

Root for Dallass? Not in this lifetime!

[Brave]

What we may have here is a difference of age. I am old enough (36) to recall the BITTER, BITTER rivalry between the Skins and Boys. George Allen, Diron Talbert, Kilmer ... there was a real hate there. Growing up with that makes it stay with you.

For younger Redskin fans it may be hard to have those same feelings. If you became a Redskin fan 20 years ago during the Gibbs era or since, you haven't seen what it was like in the 70s. It is understandable that you wouldn't feel the same disdain for the Cowboys than those of us 7, 8 or 10 years (or more) older. Nothing wrong with that I suppose. It's hard to build up a good hatred based on people telling you that your supposed to despise a team rather than knowing first hand WHY you despise them.

The rivalry has cooled, but it's not gone. It still simmers beneath the surface waiting for the right situation to bring it boiling back full force. Mark my words ... it'll be back.