Official 2018 Redskins Training Camp/Preseason Thread

[OVCChairman]

I have no issue with the fights, and in fact, I like to see it.  You cheap shot our guy on our field... if we DIDN'T do anything, I'd consider us weak.  Trent is a leader on this team, he's respected, and this is why.  He'll go to war with an entire team to defend one of his brothers.  I don't want guys LOOKING for a fight, but if you're gonna bring one to our door, be ready to get a response.  

 

 

From what I gathered, we were actually getting the better of them in practice, and the last hit may have been out of frustration.  I saw various tweets stating we were beating them in individual match ups, and at one point Leonard Williams challenged Trent in one on ones, and Trent stood him up and handled him.  Craig Hoffman was on the Junkies this morning and he said the vets all said the worst part about the fight was that it interrupted a very strong practice on our side.  

[JSSkinz]

Remember when Doug said this before the draft, I hate to stir the pot here but I'm not buying that the FO and coaching staff believe they can get through the season with what we currently have at RB.

 

Predraft Presser from the combine:

Doug Williams did not mince words when asked about the Redskins’ need at a particular position.

 

“We need to upgrade at running back, ain’t no doubt about it,” the Redskins’ senior VP of player personnel told reporters at the NFL combine. “Nobody is going to sit here and sugar coat the fact that we [didn’t have] a good running game.”

[redskinss]

10 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

Remember when Doug said this before the draft, I hate to stir the pot here but I'm not buying that the FO and coaching staff believe they can get through the season with what we currently have at RB.

 

Predraft Presser from the combine:

Doug Williams did not mince words when asked about the Redskins’ need at a particular position.

 

“We need to upgrade at running back, ain’t no doubt about it,” the Redskins’ senior VP of player personnel told reporters at the NFL combine. “Nobody is going to sit here and sugar coat the fact that we [didn’t have] a good running game.”

And yet we passed on guice twice. 

What if he had been taken just before our pick,  what was left at our late second round pick that would be an obvious upgrade over  what we currently have? 

I think he realized that running back wasn't a strength of the team and also wanted to appease the fans a little because he knew they desperately wanted a premier running back (especially considering what the rest of our division has) but their actions in the draft would suggest that it wasn't as big of a priority to them as it was to the fans. 

[Riggo#44]

1 minute ago, redskinss said:

And yet we passed on guice twice. 

What if he had been taken just before our pick,  what was left at our late second round pick that would be an obvious upgrade over the what we currently have? 

And yet, we still got him.

 

1 minute ago, redskinss said:

their actions in the draft would suggest that it wasn't as big of a priority to them as it was to the fans. 

 

You mean trading back, picking up picks, and still drafting the guy they wanted? Seems like a good strategy to me.

[JSSkinz]

1 minute ago, redskinss said:

And yet we passed on guice twice. 

What if he had been taken just before our pick,  what was left at our late second round pick that would be an obvious upgrade over the what we currently have? 

I think he realized that running back wasn't a strength of the team and also wanted to appease the fans a little because he knew they desperately wanted a premier running back (especially considering what the rest of our division has) but their actions in the draft would suggest that it wasn't as big of a priority to them as it was to the fans. 

I guess it could have been a bluff, it wasn't just that one time, there were two other times he went on and on about getting a RB.

 

I think we're doing what most people do when they suffer loss, we say its gonna be ok because we have no choice but to move on but deep down we know the loss was devastating, luckily this is a short-term loss and its only involving sports but the reaction is similar.

[redskinss]

2 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

You mean trading back, picking up picks, and still drafting the guy they wanted? Seems like a good strategy to me.

I never said it wasn't a good strategy. 

I implied that it was indicative of a team that didn't see it to be the priority that the fans did. 

If the team felt their running game woes were almost exclusively caused by poor play from the running backs and guice would solve that they'd be pretty foolish to gamble the way they did.

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I think we're doing what most people do when they suffer loss, we say its gonna be ok because we have no choice but to move on but deep down we know the loss was devastating, luckily this is a short-term loss and its only involving sports but the reaction is similar.

I agree with you 100%.  That's primarily how Redskins fans grieve over everything though.  It's like habit.

[redskinss]

Well of course its a loss,  everybody knows that guice is extremely talented and would have been an upgrade over what we have. 

What I'm trying to say is that it doesn't mean that we're necessarily screwed and have to go out now and find a replacement. 

If our offensive line stays healthy there's no reason to believe that we can't have a very effective running game with what we currently have on the roster. 

Maybe it won't be dynamic but does it have to be? 

There are many explosive offense's in the league without a game changing back. 

Assuming we don't keep dropping like flies I think our offense is going to be fine. 

My opinion,  I could be wrong. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

@redskinss Our starting offensive line is no better than the one we've started with in years past.  The running backs we have available are no better than what we've had in years past. 

 

Why exactly should we believe that we are all the sudden going to have an effective running game?

 

I understand that it sucks to be let down and lack hope before even the 2nd preseason game is played.  But it's asking a lot to make people fool themselves into believing all is swell with the current group of guys who've proven they are unable to get it done in the past.  Sure, there's a chance we could see some improvement but it's very far from a given.

[JSSkinz]

14 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Well of course its a loss,  everybody knows that guice is extremely talented and would have been an upgrade over what we have. 

What I'm trying to say is that it doesn't mean that we're necessarily screwed and have to go out now and find a replacement. 

If our offensive line stays healthy there's no reason to believe that we can't have a very effective running game with what we currently have on the roster. 

Maybe it won't be dynamic but does it have to be? 

There are many explosive offense's in the league without a game changing back. 

Assuming we don't keep dropping like flies I think our offense is going to be fine. 

My opinion,  I could be wrong. 

It's all just opinions, hopefully, yours ends up being right.

[redskinss]

11 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

@redskinss Our starting offensive line is no better than the one we've started with in years past.  The running backs we have available are no better than what we've had in years past. 

 

Why exactly should we believe that we are all the sudden going to have an effective running game?

 

I understand that it sucks to be let down and lack hope before even the 2nd preseason game is played.  But it's asking a lot to make people fool themselves into believing all is swell with the current group of guys who've proven they are unable to get it done in the past.  Sure, there's a chance we could see some improvement but it's very far from a given.

I think I'm just not articulating my opinion properly. 

I don't mean to suggest we could  have a fierce running attack that is unstoppable. 

We've never had a great running game or feared back under gruden but we've had some pretty potent offense's. 

There's no reason (yet) to believe that we can't have a very good offense with the players that are currently (mostly) healthy. 

if (and I admit this is a big if) reed and Thompson stay healthy and perform the way they have in the past there's no reason at all right now to doubt we could have a very good offense. 

All I'm saying is I don't see any reason at this point to be pessimistic. 

Believe me when we start playing real games if we look like we did in week 17 of last year I'll be right there on the cliff with the rest of you guys. 

But if I start getting that way in the preseason because we lost one player who hasn't ever played a regular season game then honestly I don't think I'd want to be a fan anymore. 

[goskins10]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

@redskinss Our starting offensive line is no better than the one we've started with in years past.  The running backs we have available are no better than what we've had in years past. 

 

Why exactly should we believe that we are all the sudden going to have an effective running game?

 

I understand that it sucks to be let down and lac

k hope before even the 2nd preseason game is played.  But it's asking a lot to make people fool themselves into believing all is swell with the current group of guys who've proven they are unable to get it done in the past.  Sure, there's a chance we could see some improvement but it's very far from a given.

 

Several factors: 

 

1. The online while basically the same has a chance to be healthy. They were not at all healthy last year. So to say you expect the same performance healthy or not is disingenuous. The team was runnign better until they used 31 different line combinations. Key players like TW and Scherff missed significant time. Moses while not missing any starts was pretty banged most of the year. Now if they are just injury prone (Scherff took a cheap shot from a philly POS) then you are correct. No reason to assume anything better. 

 

2. The development of players. Bibbs came in late. Perine has a full second year. Rookies make a hige jump from yr 1 to yr 2. And as someone pointed out his ave yds/carry went up as the season went on. We (meaning fans) need to have a little patience with these young guys. 

 

3. A better D giving us better field position to run more. Also, will have more opportunities as the D should not routinely spend entire Qs on the field. Our O should get chances. 

 

4. Alex Smith's ability and willingness to run. This means Ds can't sleep on him and stack the box. They will need to account for him. 

 

Those are just a few. Is this a guaranteed top 10 run offense? Of course not. But to just assume all will be the same is not reasonable either. There is reason to be hopeful. They still need to prove it on the field. I get that. But let's give them a chance. 

 

 

[JSSkinz]

2 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Several factors: 

 

1. The online while basically the same has a chance to be healthy. They were not at all healthy last year. So to say you expect the same performance healthy or not is disingenuous. The team was runnign better until they used 31 different line combinations. Key players like TW and Scherff missed significant time. Moses while not missing any starts was pretty banged most of the year. Now if they are just injury prone (Scherff took a cheap shot from a philly POS) then you are correct. No reason to assume anything better. 

 

2. The development of players. Bibbs came in late. Perine has a full second year. Rookies make a hige jump from yr 1 to yr 2. And as someone pointed out his ave yds/carry went up as the season went on. We (meaning fans) need to have a little patience with these young guys. 

 

3. A better D giving us better field position to run more. Also, will have more opportunities as the D should not routinely spend entire Qs on the field. Our O should get chances. 

 

4. Alex Smith's ability and willingness to run. This means Ds can't sleep on him and stack the box. They will need to account for him. 

 

Those are just a few. Is this a guaranteed top 10 run offense? Of course not. But to just assume all will be the same is not reasonable either. There is reason to be hopeful. They still need to prove it on the field. I get that. But let's give them a chance. 

 

 

 

I agree with 3 & 4 but we had a healthy O line in 2015 and 2016 and we were terrible, same O lineman we just switched out Matt Jones for Kelley and Perine.

 

[goskins10]

14 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

 

I agree with 3 & 4 but we had a healthy O line in 2015 and 2016 and we were terrible, same O lineman we just switched out Matt Jones for Kelley and Perine.

 

 

Not really true. Moses developed. He was considerably better in 2016 than 2015. Scherff was in his first year. Kelly and Jones are different. Perine another year. You can't just say these were the same players in X yr and assume they will be the same. Players do get better. I do agree that we cannot assume they will be better. But we should not just not throw in the towel before the season starts. 

[OVCChairman]

14 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

 

I agree with 3 & 4 but we had a healthy O line in 2015 and 2016 and we were terrible, same O lineman we just switched out Matt Jones for Kelley and Perine.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/redskins-survey-the-offensive-line-carnage-were-just-surviving-honestly/2017/12/08/a375773c-dc59-11e7-a841-2066faf731ef_story.html?utm_term=.4d20cdf5c12b

 

Quote

But with injuries depleting the Redskins' ranks this season, each workweek since the Oct. 23 loss at Philadelphia (the last game in which the original starting group was intact) has begun almost from scratch as backups become starters, replacements arrive to fill roster spots and everyone cross-trains in case he is required to play an unfamiliar position in a crisis.

 

 

Quote

In the past seven games, the Redskins have started six combinations on their offensive line. That doesn't account for the myriad substitutions and reshuffling forced by midgame injuries.

 

 

While we didn't blow the doors off anyone in the beginning of the season with the line makeup we had... I don't think you can say we have the same guys as we did last year, because we didnt.  Even when Trent and Moses played, they weren't 100%.  Roullier was a green behind the ears rookie, and LG was a revolving door. 

[JSSkinz]

Anything can happen, I'm not dropping out on the season because of one guy but I do think we could make a smart move, it would take a bit of savviness but I think there are a few options.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

@goskins10 & @redskinss

 

To each their own.  It's not for me to decide how you want to feel about the state of the running game going into the season.  I'll just say that there is good reason why everyone was so hyped up on Guice and that's because he's everything the guys we currently have, never showed the ability to be.  Sure, it's possible guys could get better.  I just don't think any of us are going to be surprised in the event the running game still struggles and is a major factor in not being able to win games particularly late in the season.

 

I also don't subscribe to fans 'throwing in the towel' meaning much of anything to what actually happens with the team.  The team is going to win or lose no matter what the fans think.  If anything it would seem that this team surprises more than it lives up to any expectations.

[bakedtater1]

Can't stress enough it all happens in the trenches and everything outside of that will or will not develop. Calm down fantasy football players.

[Malapropismic Depository]

Sam Darnold is a big, big man

[goskins10]

28 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

@goskins10 & @redskinss

 

To each their own.  It's not for me to decide how you want to feel about the state of the running game going into the season.  I'll just say that there is good reason why everyone was so hyped up on Guice and that's because he's everything the guys we currently have, never showed the ability to be.  Sure, it's possible guys could get better.  I just don't think any of us are going to be surprised in the event the running game still struggles and is a major factor in not being able to win games particularly late in the season.

 

I also don't subscribe to fans 'throwing in the towel' meaning much of anything to what actually happens with the team.  The team is going to win or lose no matter what the fans think.  If anything it would seem that this team surprises more than it lives up to any expectations.

 

I really do not think we that that far off but your response to @redskinss appeared to be now that Guice is gone there is virtually no reason to think we have any chance to have a decent running game. If I misunderstood then that's on me. But that's how it read and I disagree with that. 

 

And let me clear, I was as big on Guice as anyone, maybe more so. And I put my money so to speak where my mouth is. I drafted him at #26 in our mock draft (maybe I should stop drafting the guys I like. I drafted Doctson in the 1st also,,,). My only point is that players and teams evolve and that while Guice is a huge loss - I truly believe he could be a generational talent - there is still reason to believe we could be considerably better in the running game. That's not really that big a leap though is it? 

 

 

[bowhunter]

27 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

@goskins10 & @redskinss

 

To each their own.  It's not for me to decide how you want to feel about the state of the running game going into the season.  I'll just say that there is good reason why everyone was so hyped up on Guice and that's because he's everything the guys we currently have, never showed the ability to be.  Sure, it's possible guys could get better.  I just don't think any of us are going to be surprised in the event the running game still struggles and is a major factor in not being able to win games particularly late in the season.

I think the biggest concern many of us had is that 3rd down and 1-2 made us predictable and prone to failure to convert. It was nice thinking that suddenly we could keep the chains moving. A 50yd run would have been nice, but converting downs and not having to throw on 3rd was what had us so optimistic. What separates a good RB from the others is realizing that not every play has a gaping hole, see the brief crease and hit it. Dancing at the LOS didn't cut it last year.

That type of "vision" is special, innate  and rare. I'm hoping that Marshall has it,

[CousinsCowgirl84]

@Califan007 until the redskins or jets start winning, fighting in practice is the definition of a loser franchise. Endstop.

[Cooleyfan1993]

No tweets from practice? Wasn’t it at 9:45 today? 

[OVCChairman]

 

 

Someone had a running blog going that i cant find now.... report of another scuffle that didn't amount to much and was very short lived.... can't remember the participants off the top of my head.  

[OVCChairman]