capcrunch98 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: When you consider that they were up 2-0 in the series and 2-0 and 3-1 in Game 7 at home, that's also pretty bad. Oh it was definitely a choke job. Give Carolina credit - they're scrappy and they work their asses off. But they're not the 2002 Red Wings, not even close. Irregardless of anything that happened in 2018, the Caps should've won this series. Seeing what they did last year and knowing what they're capable of only makes it that much harder to stomach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted April 25, 2019 Author Share Posted April 25, 2019 So I was at the game yesterday as I am for all Caps home playoff games, and I was a little disappointed but I wasn't mad. They just didn't bring it games 6 and 7. Yo ucould see signs throughout the series that this team was not championship worthy. I don't think it's an indictment on the coach yet or that he should be fired. Let's give him a few more years. The way the team looked, plus all the injuries, it would have been unlikely to win another cup. Even if they had won, they would have probably lost to the Islanders. So I'm not mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capcrunch98 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, mammajamma said: Eh.. i disagree. I think they still had the talent to beat carolina in 5-6 games, but when kuzy and vrana are no shows for the entire series, then lose oshie, it takes away a lot of scoring potential. Even having 1 of those guys for the last 2 games wouldve made the difference imo. Ovi/Backstrom were great, but they cant do it all I agree. When I said I "overestimated this Caps team based on the Cup win" I meant I thought they could beat Carolina with their eyes closed. Their play during some of this series (and all of Game 3) make me think a few of the players believed this too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted April 25, 2019 Author Share Posted April 25, 2019 The impact of this loss is lessened by the fact that there is insane parity going on right now. The Penguins, Predators, and Knights are all out. I remember seeing on social media a stat that the Caps were possibly one out of 4 teams (Penguins and Preds) to possibly advance to the 2nd round for 4 straight years. Obviously the first two are out, so That's not easy to do. The Capitals would have been the first team in the modern era (before the Patrick divisions IIRC) to make the 2nd round in 4 straight years. It's not easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Not mad so much as disappointed. The Penguins could repeat, so why not the Caps? Loss of Kempny is not an excuse. The Penguins lost Letang in 2017 and still managed to repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 1 hour ago, capcrunch98 said: Oh it was definitely a choke job. Give Carolina credit - they're scrappy and they work their asses off. But they're not the 2002 Red Wings, not even close. Irregardless of anything that happened in 2018, the Caps should've won this series. Seeing what they did last year and knowing what they're capable of only makes it that much harder to stomach. Again, Carolina had the 3rd most points in the NHL since Dec. 31. This idea that Carolina is a bad team, when they were 5 points behind the Caps for the season, is just silly. Carolina is legit, just like the Islanders are this year. The Metro was crazy all season and the Caps showcased what they were all season, extremely up and down team with zero consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 I think it was poor game planning. Trotz team didn’t blindly throw pucks up the boards in the defensive zone. We broke out of our zone, with speed, EVERY TIME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Popeman38 said: It will be OK. It sucks that the magic of the last 16 months ended last night. The Caps are setup to be a competitive team for the next few years. Defense has a TON of depth in the NHL/AHL. A few depth forwards are needed, but they have cap space (~$11.5M). Will they win the Metro again next year? Maybe. They should be in position to make the playoffs for the foreseeable future. Next year's lineup should look something like: 8-92-43 13(RFA)-19-77 65(RFA)-20-UFA(10?) AHL/UFA-26-UFA(25?) 74-6 2-9 34/29-3 70 I'll believe the O's has a ton of quality depth defense when I see it. I do think Siegenthaler was good and should get a real shot at making the team, but I would not bring everyone back next season. I'd definitely look to move Niskanen and I would consider moving Holtby depending on the return. The latter is really tough cause he helped bring the Cup up and has the iconic stick save in the Finals, but from a business perspective, I'd consider it. My other priorities would be: Extend Backstrom Extend Ovechkin Sign Vrana Sign Connelly Burakovsky can go depending on his contract demands. Gotta draft better and really focus on offense. Get younger on defense and potentially in net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capcrunch98 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 13 minutes ago, Hersh said: Again, Carolina had the 3rd most points in the NHL since Dec. 31. This idea that Carolina is a bad team, when they were 5 points behind the Caps for the season, is just silly. Carolina is legit, just like the Islanders are this year. The Metro was crazy all season and the Caps showcased what they were all season, extremely up and down team with zero consistency. I don't think Carolina is a bad team. When I say the Caps choked by not beating them (which you and a few others took me to task for a couple days ago) I'm speaking about the the skill advantage the Caps had, which should have definitely afforded them a series win had they worked as hard as their opponent and were able to make adjustments when needed. And these are two areas which I think we can all agree didn't consistently happen over the past week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 It didn't happen all season and the Caps looked spent. A longer off-season will be good for this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 I think other then Pittsburgh we played the most playoff games of any team in the league since 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 9 minutes ago, Hersh said: I'll believe the D's has a ton of quality depth defense when I see it. I do think Siegenthaler was good and should get a real shot at making the team, but I would not bring everyone back next season. Siegenthaler Johanson Alexeyev Lewington I agree about trading Niskanen, clears $5.75M off the books each of the next 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forehead Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Again, not a super hockey freak so forgive the ignorance. Regarding Hersh's post above, is it actually a consideration that Siegenthaler wouldn't be on the team next year? I thought he played very capably and just assumed he'd be one of the six d-men starting next season. The only defense man I saw that I thought "man, we could really stand to upgrade him" was Djoos, and that was more due to complete lack of awareness than skill. I trusted Orpik on the ice more than him. As far as our own players, Ovechkin is signed for two more seasons and he'll be 35. I'm not suggesting we let him go, he needs to spend his whole career here, but how long of an extension to you give him? I'd try to resign Hagelin, for the speed and the PK if nothing else, so long as the contract is reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 21 minutes ago, capcrunch98 said: I don't think Carolina is a bad team. When I say the Caps choked by not beating them (which you and a few others took me to task for a couple days ago) I'm speaking about the the skill advantage the Caps had, which should have definitely afforded them a series win had they worked as hard as their opponent and were able to make adjustments when needed. And these are two areas which I think we can all agree didn't consistently happen over the past week. The. Caps. Did. Not. Choke. I listed the results from the Blackhawks after their cup in 2010. Out in the first round. LA won a cup, lost in WCF, won a cup, and missed the playoffs. IT IS REALLY FREAKING HARD TO REPEAT IN THE CRUCIBLE THAT IS THE STANLEY CUP PLAYOFFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, Popeman38 said: Siegenthaler Johanson Alexeyev Lewington I agree about trading Niskanen, clears $5.75M off the books each of the next 2 years. I hope you are right. One thing I haven't understood, given the Caps drafting a lot of defensemen over the last 2-3 years, is the Caps signing defensemen to long term deals. If they keep Niskanen, there is really only one open spot over the next two seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 8 minutes ago, Popeman38 said: The. Caps. Did. Not. Choke. I listed the results from the Blackhawks after their cup in 2010. Out in the first round. LA won a cup, lost in WCF, won a cup, and missed the playoffs. IT IS REALLY FREAKING HARD TO REPEAT IN THE CRUCIBLE THAT IS THE STANLEY CUP PLAYOFFS. I don't see how you can emphatically try to prove that the Caps didn't choke by posting Chicago's results over a 5-6 year stretch. First of all, we don't have any idea that their losses in that stretch couldn't also be considered a choke. Secondly, it only becomes relevant if the Caps do something even remotely similar. So far, the Caps' stretch looks more like this: Missed Playoffs Upset in Second Round Upset in Second Round Upset in Second Round Won Stanley Cup Upset in First Round That's 5/6 seasons that ended sooner than most people expected. When you stack that up to your Chicago example of 3-4 good outcomes (3 Cups and a WCF berth) and 2 bad outcomes, it's pretty laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max21 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Luckily after we trade the future and draft Jones in the top 5 this playoff loss will be slightly easier to forget. But really my biggest disappointment was Vrana, he was seriously invisible. It’s going to be an interesting offseason for the Caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: I don't see how you can emphatically try to prove that the Caps didn't choke by posting Chicago's results over a 5-6 year stretch. First of all, we don't have any idea that their losses in that stretch couldn't also be considered a choke. Secondly, it only becomes relevant if the Caps do something even remotely similar. So far, the Caps' stretch looks more like this: Missed Playoffs Upset in Second Round Upset in Second Round Upset in Second Round Won Stanley Cup Upset in First Round That's 5/6 seasons that ended sooner than most people expected. When you stack that up to your Chicago example of 3-4 good outcomes (3 Cups and a WCF berth) and 2 bad outcomes, it's pretty laughable. Are you really suggesting that losing to the Pens in the second round the two seasons prior to winning a Cup were considered upsets? You realize that those two teams were the 1st and 2nd best teams in the entire league in 2017 and the 1st and 4th best teams in the entire league the year before. It's the awful flaw in the way the NHL does the playoffs now. Hopefully they change it soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, Hersh said: Are you really suggesting that losing to the Pens in the second round the two seasons prior to winning a Cup were considered upsets? You realize that those two teams were the 1st and 2nd best teams in the entire league in 2017 and the 1st and 4th best teams in the entire league the year before. It's the awful flaw in the way the NHL does the playoffs now. Hopefully they change it soon. OK, that's fair...I do remember that. The larger point is that, to date, this isn't some up-and-down SF Giants or SA Spurs trend where the Caps have a couple early exits followed by a title and then repeat the pattern. Until we have another data point, this is a legacy of not getting out of the second round with one special season wedged in. Until THAT changes, I think it's fair to classify this as a choke. They led the series 2-0. They led game 7 by 2 goals on two separate occasions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Is choking now defined as losing to a team that is seeded lower than you? Choking should be reserved for blowing 3-1 series leads. or 3-0 leads in the 3rd period of game 7 with 12 minutes left. Or what the Leafs did in the 3rd period of game 7 in Boston a few years ago (4-1 lead and lose in OT). Or Boston blowing a 3-0 series lead, and a 3-0 game 7 lead to Phlly in the 2nd round. Losing a tight 7 game series to a team that finished 5 points behind you for the season should never be considered a choke. Just because fans think a series should be a cake walk, doesn't mean losing is choking. The best draw for the Caps in round 1 would have been the Pens. Worst would have been the Jackets. Still, no one knows how any of these series will turn out (see media UNANIMOUSLY picking the Lightning to win in the 1st round). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 A few reasons I don't view it as a choke, aside from how good Carolina is: 1. how many long, exhausting playoff's the Caps have had recently. Not just the physical aspect but also the emotional aspect. All those years being legit dogs in the playoffs, followed the Cup win and crazy aftermath last season, has got to be draining. I think we saw the same thing with the Pens this year. That's a lot of extra super intense hockey games over the years. 2. It's a huge difference not having the same head coach 3. We've seen this inconsistency all season and we've seen leads blown all season. People kept expecting that the Caps would just flip a switch when the entire regular season said otherwise. 4. If not for the timing of the all-star game, this team may not have even made the playoffs. They had the worst stretch of any Caps team in years in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 It’s not a choke. Carolina was simply better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Not a choke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capcrunch98 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 51 minutes ago, Popeman38 said: The. Caps. Did. Not. Choke. I listed the results from the Blackhawks after their cup in 2010. Out in the first round. LA won a cup, lost in WCF, won a cup, and missed the playoffs. IT IS REALLY FREAKING HARD TO REPEAT IN THE CRUCIBLE THAT IS THE STANLEY CUP PLAYOFFS. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT REPEATING AS CUP CHAMPS. I'm talking about a single series vs. one team. The Capitals have a ton more skill, experience, a better goalie (that alone can oftentimes win a playoff series), and home ice, and would be staked to a 2-0 lead against a team they've owned for the better part of 2 seasons and who lost one of their few skilled forwards to a concussion. Carolina is a good team, but the Caps are better and they should've won the series. I personally don't care about the 5 point regular season differential some keep bringing up because I think regular season records can be very misleading. The Coyotes finished 4 points behind the Avs. Can anyone see them knocking off Calgary in the first round? Can anyone even name more than 3 players on Arizona's roster? Hell, the 1998 Caps only finished 10 points behind the Wings that year. Yet everyone on the planet (Caps fans included) saw that as a David vs. Goliath Finals that Detroit easily won (3 1-goal games not withstanding). But for those who do put a huge premium on the regular season, please explain how the Caps going 4-0 against the Canes this year doesn't indicate that maybe they're the better team? Whatever, i'm done with this debate. To those who think Carolina truly was the better team, I respect your opinion. Personally, I think the Caps choked, and I'm not alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 They were ill prepared. Hope that can change next season and we aren’t stuck with a lamer on the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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