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Guardian: State attorney general to release 884-page report detailing decades of sexual abuse and cover-ups by the church


Elessar78

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God exists outside of the RCC or any other ****ed up church.  You can believe and still not go to one of these horrorshows.  It's the cover-up just as much as the abuse.  If they refuse to oust and report every known instance of abuse, RCC is a co conspirator to the abuse.

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2 Chicago-area priests arrested in Miami Beach after being caught performing sex acts in car, police say

 

Two priests from the Chicago area were arrested in Miami Beach on Monday after police observed the two men performing oral sex on one another in a parked car, Miami Beach police said.

 

The Rev. Diego Berrio, 39, pastor of Mision San Juan Diego in Arlington Heights, and the Rev. Edwin Giraldo Cortes, 30, an extern priest from Colombia who served at St. Aloysius Parish in Chicago in August, were both charged with lewd and lascivious behavior, a misdemeanor. Berrio also was charged with indecent exposure, police said.

 

The alleged sexual act took place around 3:20 p.m. Monday, according to a police report — “in full view of the public passing by on Ocean Drive and the sidewalk.”

There is also a playground on the block the car was parked on, police confirmed.

 

Click on the link for the full article

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given how little God seems to care about the continued abuses heaped on innocents by people who are ordained to be his priests, i can only conclude that God is Crom, and Crom cares not for any of you.

 

In fact he probably finds it hysterically funny that you all love him so much, all things considered.

 

~Bang

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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/23/world/europe/vatican-child-pornography-carlo-alberto-capella.html

N°3 of the Vatican https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/30/world/australia/cardinal-george-pell-trial-sexual-abuse.html

Ratzinger aka Benedict XVI is the first who understood the magnitude of the problem and who really tried to reform.

Edited by FrFan
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1 hour ago, FrFan said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/23/world/europe/vatican-child-pornography-carlo-alberto-capella.html

N°3 of the Vatican https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/30/world/australia/cardinal-george-pell-trial-sexual-abuse.html

Ratzinger aka Benedict XVI is the first who understood the magnitude of the problem and who really tried to reform.

I'm glad they tried that Monsignor and sentenced him to jail. But if they even believe any of his justification of "personal turmoil" related to work and "personal fragility" and let him continue to be a priest, then heads need to roll. Vatican IS a sovereign state so it only makes sense they try their own and I'm glad they convicted him. 5 years seems light though. This type of proclivity doesn't just go away, even with jail time. 

 

 

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As to the Church and punishment, the thought occurs to me that I could imaging the Church having a thing for forgiveness and redemption. I wouldn't yell "hypocrite" if that was their position. 

 

But that, while I could easily imagine them sheltering a sinner who professes contrition, my tolerance of their religious independence only extends that far if they also make sure that the person is never in a job with access to children. 

 

I'd be a lot more generous to the Catholic Church if, every time they find out a priest molested a kid, they covered it up, but the priest spent the rest of his life in a monastery. 

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59 minutes ago, Larry said:

As to the Church and punishment, the thought occurs to me that I could imaging the Church having a thing for forgiveness and redemption. I wouldn't yell "hypocrite" if that was their position. 

 

But that, while I could easily imagine them sheltering a sinner who professes contrition, my tolerance of their religious independence only extends that far if they also make sure that the person is never in a job with access to children. 

 

I'd be a lot more generous to the Catholic Church if, every time they find out a priest molested a kid, they covered it up, but the priest spent the rest of his life in a monastery. 

While nobody is beyond forgiveness and redemption in Christ, some sins have lifelong consequences, especially for those in pastoral ministry. If found in open sin, it should disqualify you from further service in church leadership and that type of ministry.

 

Apostle Paul uses "overseer" interchangeably with elder and pastor (or priest). 1 Timothy lays out the qualifications, along with various other prohibitions in Scripture to avoid sin including sexual immorality.

 

1 Timothy 3 English Standard Version (ESV)

Qualifications for Overseers

The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, visionary said:

Awesome. I really think all US RCC should encourage their state Attornies General to open similar investigations. The US RCC and Vatican should offer to pay for all these investigations. Come clean. 

Edited by Elessar78
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6 hours ago, Bang said:

given how little God seems to care about the continued abuses heaped on innocents by people who are ordained to be his priests, i can only conclude that God is Crom, and Crom cares not for any of you.

 

In fact he probably finds it hysterically funny that you all love him so much, all things considered.

 

~Bang

 

...but God sometimes gives us challenges to teach us lessons...

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My personal take is that Church doctrine failed on this one over the centuries. Plus a lack of scientific knowledge on the nature of human sexuality (homosexuality and pedophilia particularly). 

 

Genuinely, naively, I bet church leaders believed that through confession you were absolved of the sin and that the priests would do their best to avoid that near occasion of sin—after all they were Godly men. I'm not making excuses for what happened, but our concept of children as changed even just in the 20th century. Early in the 20th century children were still viewed as miniature adults—they could work in factories, do dangerous jobs etc. A little further back, kids were married off and sexually active by their early teens. I can't remember the exact decades of the study I read but it wasn't until the middle of the 20th century that we saw kids as innocents, something to be extremely protected.

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1 hour ago, Elessar78 said:

My personal take is that Church doctrine failed on this one over the centuries. Plus a lack of scientific knowledge on the nature of human sexuality (homosexuality and pedophilia particularly). 

 

Genuinely, naively, I bet church leaders believed that through confession you were absolved of the sin and that the priests would do their best to avoid that near occasion of sin—after all they were Godly men. I'm not making excuses for what happened, but our concept of children as changed even just in the 20th century. Early in the 20th century children were still viewed as miniature adults—they could work in factories, do dangerous jobs etc. A little further back, kids were married off and sexually active by their early teens. I can't remember the exact decades of the study I read but it wasn't until the middle of the 20th century that we saw kids as innocents, something to be extremely protected.

I think they were more worried about the damage to the image of the church, and the resultant challenge to its authority and infallibility, than they were about people's lives. When a church ceases to be an organism, but instead becomes an organization, it is dead.

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14 minutes ago, Zguy28 said:

I think they were more worried about the damage to the image of the church, and the resultant challenge to its authority and infallibility, than they were about people's lives. When a church ceases to be an organism, but instead becomes an organization, it is dead.

I don't think they worried about the image of the church until the rise of the media. Scandal, sadly, is not new to the church. 

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Pope blames devil for Church divisions, scandals, seeks angel's help

 

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The devil is alive and well and working overtime to undermine the Roman Catholic Church, Pope Francis says.

In fact, the pope is so convinced that Satan is to blame for the sexual abuse crisis and deep divisions racking the Church that he has asked Catholics around the world to recite a special prayer every day in October to try to beat him back.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pope-devil-idUSKCN1MI10M

 

Does the Pope have new advisors?

church_lady_satan.jpg

 

 

FLIP+WILSON+%25282%2529.gif

 

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25 minutes ago, MarkB452 said:

Pope blames devil for Church divisions, scandals, seeks angel's help

 

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The devil is alive and well and working overtime to undermine the Roman Catholic Church, Pope Francis says.

In fact, the pope is so convinced that Satan is to blame for the sexual abuse crisis and deep divisions racking the Church that he has asked Catholics around the world to recite a special prayer every day in October to try to beat him back.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pope-devil-idUSKCN1MI10M

 

Granted, I am now about to argue with the Pope, on a religious matter, by quoting a cancelled American TV series.  (That I thought was a really good series.)  

 

But I'm an American, so I'm allowed to do that.  

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:



Thoughts and prayers don't do ****, without action that creates change in behaviors and beliefs.

Oh the sweet, delicious, ugly irony...

 

The RCC distinguishes itself from other sects of Christianity because the simple belief in Jesus Christ as savior is NOT enough for salvation—one must live good actions, behaviors, and beliefs. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Catholic church split over abuse scandal gravity

 

Vatican City (AFP) - Pope Francis has vowed to end clerical sexual abuse, but bishops from Asia and Africa have shown a mixed response to a scandal some have termed a "Western problem".

 

Church leaders from around the world attended the closing mass Sunday of a month-long meeting, or synod, which many had hoped would take the global struggle against paedophile priests up a notch.

 

As the talks began, Francis warned again that abuse and cover ups would not be tolerated.

 

But as US Cardinal Blase Joseph Cupich told the press, priestly sexual abuse was "not on the front burner of all countries".

 

"The resistance of some bishops" to discuss a crisis which has hit countries from Germany to America and Chile limited talk time at the synod, US Archbishop of Philadelphia Charles Chaput told the Catholic News Service agency.

 

"Some say that (sex abuse) really is an issue of the Western world," he said, adding that he wished that "we had spent more time not only talking about (the crisis), but apologizing to people for it".

 

- 'In denial' -

 

Eamon Martin, the President of the Irish Episcopal Conference, said some churches were "in denial" and had not given the anti-paedophilia campaign "its proper place".

 

Click on the link for the full article

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Decades of cover-up and complicity naturally means that there is a lot of guilt to go around. The sheer number of people who knew and did nothing has to be pretty enormous. And the fact that it continues, well that’s damning all by itself. Institutions are naturally self defensive because of the “greater good.” The problem is that the congregants and non-clerical leaders are all too often complicit in these cover-ups too. Through their influence and pressure they often aid in making sure the darkness doesn’t see the light. Add into that the amount of clerics and laity who simply live in naive denial and you really have a perfect storm where the victim is not only speaking out against an abuser, but also the institution as a whole AND powerful people within their communities.

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The Pennsylvania state senate refused to lift the statute of limitations to allow these victims to sue both priest, church and institutions. Republican law makers were effectively lobbied by the Church to lift the SoL so victims could sue priests ONLY. 

 

What a ****ing sad state of affairs. Take your punishment RCC. 

 

As a Catholic that attends Mass weekly-this is unacceptable. My diocese is cowardly and immoral.

 

The Pope started his tenure by proclaiming a desire for a “Poor Church” and even shunned the trappings of his office. The Church in PA needs to face justice in court. I would rather worship in an unheated garage than live this travesty.

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  • 2 weeks later...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2018/11/12/vatican-asks-us-bishops-not-vote-sexual-abuse-proposals-they-planned/?utm_term=.e4f4bf460463

 

the Vatican’s ambassador to the United States suggested that bishops should not be held accountable by lay people in the church, and should not look to law enforcement to confront the church’s sexual abuse crisis.

 

Moments after the the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops learned of the letter instructing them not to act on their own, Archbishop Christopher Pierre, the Vatican’s ambassador to the United States, warned of supporting outside lay investigations into the church. He seemed to refer obliquely to both the bishops' now-tabled proposal to establish a lay commission capable of investigating bishops' misconduct, and also the more than a dozen U.S. states' ongoing criminal and civil investigations into crimes committed by priests.

 

“There may be a temptation on the part of some to relinquish responsibility for reform to others from ourselves, as if we were no longer capable of reforming or trusting ourselves,” Pierre said. “Assistance is both welcome and necessary, and surely collaboration with the laity is essential. However, the responsibility as bishops of this Catholic Church is ours."

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This is a repeat of what happened in Ireland where the Vatican actually justified their stonewalling of investigators, saying that they were not guilty of instructing their bishops to do anything illegal in blocking police inquiries.

 

They certainly didn't tell them to help.

 

The thing the church seems to fail to understand is that senior lay members of their flock who want the truth to come out are no longer intimidated by the church hierarchy. At all.

 

That trust has long been lost.

 

 

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