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Is this the most talented yet misused defensive front we've had in years?

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On 9/16/2019 at 1:31 PM, mistertim said:

Problem with firing Manusky immediately is who will take his place? Not saying that as a defense of Manusky...I really can't imagine anyone being much worse. Just wondering what would happen. Would Tomsula take over for now maybe and we'd go after someone else in the offseason? Would we try to recruit Rex Ryan immediately? Give Rob a shot?

I'd have to imagine tomsula or Ryan would take over...I'd be more at ease if it was tomsula with the familiarity of the d..manusky needs to go though!

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47 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

I'd have to imagine tomsula or Ryan would take over...I'd be more at ease if it was tomsula with the familiarity of the d..manusky needs to go though!

I'd like to see Tomsula get a shot, love the dude's intensity 

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3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Not  gonna matter when the CB's are playing 10+ yards off of WR's..No time for the pass rush to get there..

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On 9/16/2019 at 12:32 AM, Vladimir L said:

Ionadis not playing well

 

Karrigan sucks against the run

Ionadis is no longer on the juice. 

He's gotten himself paid. 

 

Regarding Kerrigan, he typically starts slow. 

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17 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Isn't 2 games in just a tad early to make this pronouncement on a rookie? True, he hasn't really stood out but our entire defense hasn't stood out, unless you count standing out for bad things. He's a rookie who's also playing in a **** scheme for a **** DC. 

 

He is supposed to be a speed rusher? No?

 

Multiple 3rd downs that are obvious passing downs, NOTHING!

 

He is a first round draft pick for gness sake. 

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2 hours ago, WilberMarshall said:

 

He is supposed to be a speed rusher? No?

 

Multiple 3rd downs that are obvious passing downs, NOTHING!

 

He is a first round draft pick for gness sake. 

 

Dude, it's 2 games in for a rookie. Relax. He was considered a freakish but somewhat raw guy coming out so I'm not overly surprised that he doesn't have 3 sacks in his first 2 games. If we get half way through the season and he has zero sacks then I'll start to get worried. He's probably still having to think a lot about assignments and what he's learned so far when he's out there instead of being able to pin his ears back and just go. We also have no clue what the scheme is asking him to do. Knowing Manusky it could be possible that he's being played in a way that does the opposite of maximize his talents. 

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2 hours ago, WilberMarshall said:

 

He is supposed to be a speed rusher? No?

 

Multiple 3rd downs that are obvious passing downs, NOTHING!

 

He is a first round draft pick for gness sake. 

 

Dallas Tackles are better then any edge rusher on our roster. And they have Witten+TEs that can block.

 

We dont have many pass rushers on this roster on paper. Ryan Anderson is starting...kinda tells you something. 

 

Sweat seems to be better in run support then his pass rushing so far. He can come off blocks and tackle the ball carrier.

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2 hours ago, WilberMarshall said:

Regarding Kerrigan, he typically starts slow. 

 I predict 4 sacks against the Dolphins to almost get us to 1-5.

3 sacks against the Jets will get us our first win.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, WilberMarshall said:

 

He is supposed to be a speed rusher? No?

 

Multiple 3rd downs that are obvious passing downs, NOTHING!

 

He is a first round draft pick for gness sake. 

 

Not saying Sweat is going to be JJ Watt - but to add to @mistertim point, it's just two games into his rookie year. talk about 0 patience. See the stat lines below. BTW - JJ Watt had 5.5 sacks his first season. 

 

JJ Watts stat lines his first two games. Indy was 2-14 that year. Miami was 6-10. Not exactly power houses. Philly and dallast are projected PO teams. 

 

image.png.47957d434759c4947300a1838e4d9f8d.png

 

Montez Sweat stat line so far:

 

image.png.75cfe4f2c994c390c4d884c6cc4e98a5.png

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21 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Isn't 2 games in just a tad early to make this pronouncement on a rookie? True, he hasn't really stood out but our entire defense hasn't stood out, unless you count standing out for bad things. He's a rookie who's also playing in a **** scheme for a **** DC. 

Not in my estimation.  I'm happy to be wrong and eat crow if he turns good.  So far what I see is someone stiff in their hips, slow out the gate, and easy to block.  He was drafted primarily for his 40 time/splits and it's not translating to the field.  His college tape isn't even very impressive.  

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I, yi, yi....I noticed last week Kerrigan was getting pushed out of the play a lot.

 

Edited by HigSkin
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Yay someone else besides me finally spoke up about blitzing in our passive past, and it working. But not just in 2015. Haslet in 2012 as well.

 

I predict the new guy gets a sack on Monday.  Because he won't know the passive playbook enough to make himself invisible, and lucks into a sack on his only blitz. And, it's our only sack.

Edited by RandyHolt
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3 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

Yay someone else besides me finally spoke up about blitzing in our passive past, and it working. But not just in 2015. Haslet in 2012 as well.

 

I predict the new guy gets a sack on Monday.  Because he won't know the passive playbook enough to make himself invisible, and lucks into a sack on his only blitz. And, it's our only sack.

 

Yeah it's really really weird. That's happened multiple times...we've had a DC who was scheming conservative and we sucked, then suddenly he briefly went aggressive with exotic and unpredictable blitzes and it worked, and then he stopped. Why? What is it with this team and finding something that works and immediately stopping?

 

That's one of the reasons I wouldn't necessarily be against seeing Rob Ryan as at least an interim DC for a while. He might not have a great overall track record as a DC but at least with him you know you're going to see some aggressive blitzes. 

Edited by mistertim
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On 9/16/2019 at 3:41 PM, megared said:

 

Kerrigan's probably one of the only vets we could get good value out of, because his contract is so affordable. 

 

He's being paid like the 26th best edge defender at ~$11.5 M/year.  

 

He's probably in the 45-75 range in terms of overall impact amongst DLmen. He's a very hot and cold guy. And he's only particularly noticeable like maybe 5 games a year. Unacceptable. On top of that it isn't like he's going at LT's all the time. His efficacy against the run hasn't been there in like a season and a half now too.  Dude gets a pass by most skins fans...I can only imagine why. 

 

 

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On 9/18/2019 at 10:46 AM, SkinssRvA said:

Not in my estimation.  I'm happy to be wrong and eat crow if he turns good.  So far what I see is someone stiff in their hips, slow out the gate, and easy to block.  He was drafted primarily for his 40 time/splits and it's not translating to the field.  His college tape isn't even very impressive.  

This is exactly what I was worried about when drafting him. 

 

I didn't see a lot of ability to bend around the edge and I thought his large frame would allow him to be too easily caught up kerrigan style by the athletic tackles in the nfl. 

 

His strong point so far seems to be wrapping around the line of scrimmage to chase down running backs. 

 

It's super early to make a definitive decision on him though, and I suspect our coaching is a bigger problem. 

 

Would be nice to see him pop on film though.. that's what i like to see with young guys. Haven't seen it with him yet. I think your concern is valid. 

Edited by sportjunkie07
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Kerrigan just might officially be on the decline now. I mean he is over 30. All in all he's had a damn good career and definitely worthy of the 1st we invested in him. With better coaching and talent around him he'd probably have put up some 15+ sack seasons.

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1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Kerrigan just might officially be on the decline now. I mean he is over 30. All in all he's had a damn good career and definitely worthy of the 1st we invested in him. With better coaching and talent around him he'd probably have put up some 15+ sack seasons.

 

I dunno if he'd ever do 15+ sack seasons, to be honest. He's always hot and cold and only seems to really show up in 4-5 games per year and that's where he gets most of his sacks. And it's really hard to put up elite sack numbers consistently that way. 

 

He's been a very good OLB but not great or elite. He's also consistently on the left side so he's going against less talented Tackles. If he were always lining up on the right throughout his career I think he would have been less effective against the more athletic LTs as he doesn't really have the burst or bend to take those guys on. That being said, he's been super durable/dependable, a great teammate, and seems to be a genuinely good dude. I have absolutely no bad feelings about him whatsoever. 

 

As far as him declining, I think it's still early and he generally does tend to get off to a slow start. He's coming off of a 13 sack season so I'd be pretty surprised if he went from 13 to 4 or 5 or something, without any injury issues hampering him. 

Edited by mistertim

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2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

I dunno if he'd ever do 15+ sack seasons, to be honest. He's always hot and cold and only seems to really show up in 4-5 games per year and that's where he gets most of his sacks. And it's really hard to put up elite sack numbers consistently that way. 

 

He's been a very good OLB but not great or elite. He's also consistently on the left side so he's going against less talented Tackles. If he were always lining up on the right throughout his career I think he would have been less effective against the more athletic LTs as he doesn't really have the burst or bend to take those guys on. That being said, he's been super durable/dependable, a great teammate, and seems to be a genuinely good dude. I have absolutely no bad feelings about him whatsoever. 

 

As far as him declining, I think it's still early and he generally does tend to get off to a slow start. He's coming off of a 13 sack season so I'd be pretty surprised if he went from 13 to 4 or 5 or something, without any injury issues hampering him. 

I do agree that hes probably not in decline yet, but I think its been clear hes been at minimum a great OLB.  He gets so underrated in my opinion, because he does it year in and year out.  What most people seem to forget is that Kerrigan is 5th among current players in sacks.  Thats impressive.  The only players with more are Suggs, Cameron Wake, Von Miller, and JJ Watt.  Thats it.

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9 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

 

 

 

 

Mitchell was 100% right. The staff did not prepare Sweat properly for the NFL. Gruden has always done a woeful job of getting this team ready anyway, but now it's snowballing and out-of-control. Kerrigan was always overrated and over-appreciated, anyway. He has one move, his sacks all come in clusters and his first game in the NFL was probably his best.

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Talk about tough sledding for Kerrigan and Sweat expected to get sacks in this lame duck scheme.  Do the exact same rush over and over. Occupy and stay in your lane dammit - Tomsula

 

All one needs to do now is look at future MVP Preston Smith.

Edited by RandyHolt

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