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Is this the most talented yet misused defensive front we've had in years?

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Craig Hoffman is actually dead wrong.  DL play in the run game wasn’t terrible but gap fits by LB and safeties was. Trevor pointed that out in the post game, and I even picked up on it.  I asked my wife why Mason was standing right behind Payne, taking himself out of the play.

 

Thats coaching.  That’s Manusky, hired by Gruden.  

 

It’s on Gruden.  He’s the HC.  Enough excuses.  

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Yeah they outcoached us.  They were coming off a bye and they were better prepared than we were.    We were not ready for that run game.

 

Most of the runs where they killed us were in space.  They blocked us on the edge extremely well.  That was good guard, receiver, and tight end play.  They had a good gameplan and executed it extremely well.  It wasn't just about the blocking either.  Their runningback kicked some ass and their receivers ran away from us.  I'm confident that our front seven guys can bounce back.  But that speed differential between their skill players and our secondary was worrisome.

 

They were playing for their season yesterday and they were inspired.  Pretty much dismantled us in all phases like New Orleans did.

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Those outside runs were brutal, I see why some like Foster and some want to replace him.  I wouldnt run directly at our dline unless I had to, either, completely out coached in every phase.

Edited by Renegade7
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Like a lot of things, it's possible that both Hoffman is accurate and the scheme/adjustments weren't up to par, depending on what series you're looking at.  You don't get blown up to the extent they were simply based on scheme.

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2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Off topic but since you brought it up, Brewer doesn't say Jay's teams struggle to come back, he is saying THIS version of Jay's team does.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/11/05/by-choosing-building-blocks-over-playmakers-redskins-created-big-imbalance/?utm_term=.9766ab3c1fc5

 

I think his take is really stupid.  The reason the offense got destroyed yesterday is BECAUSE the foundation blocks were missing.  Lost four OLs and a fifth was playing on a sprained MCL and grabbing every snap because he couldn't move sideways.  Smashmouth offense doesn't work when your runningbacks and offensive line are hurt and you're down to playing third and fourth stringers.  That's not a failure of drafting.  Or teambuilding philosophy.

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1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I think his take is really stupid.  The reason the offense got destroyed yesterday is BECAUSE the foundation blocks were missing.  Lost four OLs and a fifth was playing on a sprained MCL and grabbing every snap because he couldn't move sideways.  Smashmouth offense doesn't work when your runningbacks and offensive line are hurt and you're down to playing third and fourth stringers.  That's not a failure of drafting.  Or teambuilding philosophy.

Well, when it’s the same group of guys who are hurt all the time,, it’s a failure of recognizing that and changing direction.

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2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Well, when it’s the same group of guys who are hurt all the time,, it’s a failure of recognizing that and changing direction. 

 

What does that mean?  Change the offensive philosophy and scheme because some key starters got injured?

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5 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

What does that mean?  Change the offensive philosophy and scheme because some key starters got injured?

Yes, God yes.  Our most important players on offense are injury prone, why center the offense around them like CT or keep backups who get injured too like Ty?

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11 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

What does that mean?  Change the offensive philosophy and scheme because some key starters got injured?

No, if the same guys keep getting hurt, don’t assume they will be healthy, so start replacing them early...

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4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Yes, God yes.  Our most important players on offense are injury prone, why center the offense around them like CT or keep backups who get injured too like Ty?

 

What team do you think can realistically change their offense with four of their five starting OLs hurt?

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6 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

What team do you think can realistically change their offense with four of their five starting OLs hurt?

You are missing the point, we knew pretty much the entire oline was injury prone BEFORE we even came into this season.  We knew that about CT and Reed for years prior.  I am not surprised thisnis happening it, I feared it, made a thread about it, that's why I am angry. 

 

Edited by Renegade7

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Just now, Voice_of_Reason said:

No, if the same guys keep getting hurt, don’t assume they will be healthy, so start replacing them early... 

 

Ok then, play that out.  Trent has been getting hurt the past few years, replace him?  That's an early first rounder pick.  Morgan Moses had injury problems last season too, replace him?  That's a first or second rounder too.  Lauvao and Jordan Reed need to be replaced too, those are second and third rounders if you're looking for early starters.  It's a shame that we had to pass on Jonathan Allen and DaRon Payne for Garrett Bolles and Kolton Miller, but Trent and Moses got banged up and needed to be replaced.

 

BTW, trading down from 44 to get Guice and Geron Christian was the team trying to mitigate potential losses at tackle and runningback.  Christian was supposed to redshirt this season but Trent got hurt and had to have surgery.  Guice was supposed to be a dynamic skill player but he tore his ACL.  You can not completely prepare for injuries.  They happen no matter what.  Either they're devastating or you get lucky.

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13 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

You are missing the point, we knew pretty much the entire oline was injury prone BEFORE we even came into this season.  We knew that about CT and Reed for years prior.  I am not surprised thisnis happening it, I feared it, made a thread about it, that's why I am angry.  

 

 

The entire OL is injury prone?  Moses and Scherff have missed two games between them in three years.  Trent's only missed significant time for weed suspensions.  Roullier hasn't missed any time.  Lauvao was the only shake starter and you can live with that.  You're using hindsight to say the OL was injury prone.  The injury decimation coming to a head in the last two weeks was bad luck.  You don't abandon good players and pass over better talents at other positions in the draft and free agency just because you think your best players on offense might get hurt.

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29 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

The entire OL is injury prone?  Moses and Scherff have missed two games between them in three years.  Trent's only missed significant time for weed suspensions.  Roullier hasn't missed any time.  Lauvao was the only shake starter and you can live with that.  You're using hindsight to say the OL was injury prone.  The injury decimation coming to a head in the last two weeks was bad luck.  You don't abandon good players and pass over better talents at other positions in the draft and free agency just because you think your best players on offense might get hurt.

I said most, not all.  Trent, Sherrf, and Moses gutted out best they good and got to point of being ineffective in several games because of it.  Doing something like a game count doesn't do this conversation justice, that's like pointing out Alex has a 91 QB rating on the year. Trent was put on injured reserve last year wasn't he?

 

Also, teams do get rid of good players that can't stay healthy.  No one is saying should been blown up,jus stop have a back up in case they do get hurt due to recent history.  We didn't do that, worse we brought back a guy who been on IR 2 of last 3 seasons and a out to go again. That's fun, no better if this was spread out over the season.

 

I'm sorry, it's time to move on from CT as well.  What he wants wont be what hes worth if he can't stay healthy.

 

Edit:  we are getting off topic here, gladly continue this with you in offensive line thread 

Edited by Renegade7

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57 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

No, if the same guys keep getting hurt, don’t assume they will be healthy, so start replacing them early...

 

Replace CT, Trent, Moses and Scherff?

 

Those are some of our best players ... but yeah. If we cant count on these guys being healthy ... dang this sucks.

 

What a conundrum.

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They got their asses kicked, plain and simple. I don't want to hear anything about schemes. They didn't get off blocks and they didn't pursue, and them damn sure didn't make any tackles.

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8 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I think his take is really stupid.  The reason the offense got destroyed yesterday is BECAUSE the foundation blocks were missing.  Lost four OLs and a fifth was playing on a sprained MCL and grabbing every snap because he couldn't move sideways.  Smashmouth offense doesn't work when your runningbacks and offensive line are hurt and you're down to playing third and fourth stringers.  That's not a failure of drafting.  Or teambuilding philosophy.

 

I get what you are saying and agree.  Their identity is running the ball.  I took his point as mostly being about this team is lacking offensive weapons with the passing game. That's true -- though don't think he's breaking major ground since it seems obvious. 

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DrQ7VJ1WwAEm01G.jpg.ed117ebb4aadee057b0397a3740596e7.jpg

Thats insane!  94%!  I mean I knew we were bad on 3rd downs but...how in the world does a great DLine that has shut down the likes of David Johnson, Ezekiel Elliot, etc, get so badly beaten at a near historic pace on 3rd and short?

 

Bad defensive playcalling springs to mind...

Edited by Peregrine
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31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

testament to the defense....

 

 

 

And telling as to how bad the passing game has been.

And the bad news is, it's about to get worse.

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23 hours ago, Peregrine said:

DrQ7VJ1WwAEm01G.jpg.ed117ebb4aadee057b0397a3740596e7.jpg

Thats insane!  94%!  I mean I knew we were bad on 3rd downs but...how in the world does a great DLine that has shut down the likes of David Johnson, Ezekiel Elliot, etc, get so badly beaten at a near historic pace on 3rd and short?

 

Bad defensive playcalling springs to mind...

Cant defend the short pass. Smart teams are going to take our DL out of the game by killing us with quick plays over them, and outside runs. 

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94%?

 

Came here to talk DL/F7 but....  yikes. Teams are not running up the gut, but maybe we are playing them to do so?  What is our base personnel for 3rd and 1, vs 3rd and 2?   I suspect 3rd and 2 we have Kerrigan and Preston out there. 3rd and 1, we must go heavy, so perhaps teams must be going PAP - but I certainly don't recall seeing that. At all.

Edited by RandyHolt

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94% because our 3rd down defense is way too slow. You need fast OLB's who can pin theirs ears back and rush the QB and competent ILB's who can cover the short middle i.e. TE's and slots WR's. Kerrigan/Smith/McPhee have to be the slowest group in the NFL.

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