Vanguard

Is this the most talented yet misused defensive front we've had in years?

Recommended Posts

This morning they had a recap of what Doc was saying and man it makes so much sense.  He and Goldston were talking about the 3 down linemen and they said that the reason they are so effective and will get even better is you can't game plan for them.  Basically you have to have a great Center and Guards to control them, maybe keep a TE in to block but still its not that you can game plan for them if you don't have the players up front.  Soooooo why is this so interesting?  Both starting Guards are out for Atlanta so this should be an advantage for the boys from bama and the Greek.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Goldston is a talent breaking things down. No cliche stuff from him. Like that Doc challenges guess to provide maximum value. 

 

Extreme positives, both guards being out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love what Payne has brought to the defense and that video is a great breakdown of his impact but there's no way he's winning DROY. My guess is James or maybe Chubb or Ward.

Edited by mistertim
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Panninho said:

D'aron Payne ROY video Edited out

 

Thanks for posting this. What a great breakdown. Yes, I was one of those that wanted Derwin James a bit more. And I still think they could have traded down and gotten Payne and an additional draft pick or two. 

 

Having said that, once the draft is over, all that matters is how they play. And Da'ron has played lights out. Admittedly even better than I thought he would. I knew he was great in run defense, which is why they drafted him. But he has already been better in pass rush than he showed on tape. The entire bio-mechanics that Brett was showed was not something I saw him do in college as much or as effective. Many times he get stood up and even pushed back a little. I have to think Tomsula has taught Payne some adjustments to his technique. One of the best traits of Alabama players that's is not talked about as much is they are coachable. 

 

The only slight criticism I have of the breakdown is that I think he minimizes the loss of Allen and to some extent Foster. When Allen was in they were stopping the run. He got injured and the D went down hill. It was like a light switch. Not saying it was a waste to get Payne - as for Dline the more the merrier. In fact I am glad they not only doubled down with Payne they even drafted Settle who I believe can also be change maker. There are always injuries so he will get some time. 

 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

The only slight criticism I have of the breakdown is that I think he minimizes the loss of Allen and to some extent Foster. When Allen was in they were stopping the run. He got injured and the D went down hill. It was like a light switch. Not saying it was a waste to get Payne - as for Dline the more the merrier. In fact I am glad they not only doubled down with Payne they even drafted Settle who I believe can also be change maker. There are always injuries so he will get some time. 

 

Yeah, that and the fact that Allen is probably the MVP of the front seven this year, which probably makes him the mvp of the defense as well. 

 

But that said, when is the last time we could be having this discussion about which of our Bama boys is more effective, and who is responsible for turning this defense around

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Thanks for posting this. What a great breakdown. Yes, I was one of those that wanted Derwin James a bit more. And I still think they could have traded down and gotten Payne and an additional draft pick or two. 

 

Having said that, once the draft is over, all that matters is how they play. And Da'ron has played lights out. Admittedly even better than I thought he would. I knew he was great in run defense, which is why they drafted him. But he has already been better in pass rush than he showed on tape. The entire bio-mechanics that Brett was showed was not something I saw him do in college as much or as effective. Many times he get stood up and even pushed back a little. I have to think Tomsula has taught Payne some adjustments to his technique. One of the best traits of Alabama players that's is not talked about as much is they are coachable. 

 

The only slight criticism I have of the breakdown is that I think he minimizes the loss of Allen and to some extent Foster. When Allen was in they were stopping the run. He got injured and the D went down hill. It was like a light switch. Not saying it was a waste to get Payne - as for Dline the more the merrier. In fact I am glad they not only doubled down with Payne they even drafted Settle who I believe can also be change maker. There are always injuries so he will get some time. 

 

 

 

Excellent post, and I agree with every point. Payne was already a very good run stopper in college but his game has taken a leap forward in that regard. I  watched every snap of his multiple times when we were all debating the upcoming draft earlier this year. I also never saw him do some of the things that were highlighted in the video; I remember seeing him struggle at times with double teams, getting too high out of his stance sometimes, and losing leverage as a result.  His pass rushing in college was also pretty mediocre (one of my main issues with taking him so high) outside of a couple games but he has obviously taken leaps in that area as well.

 

I think Tomsula's impact on our DL guys can get a bit lost in the wash, but IMO the guy is one of the best at what he does and is also likely one of the main reasons that we were able to develop such a late round gem in Ioannidis who has gone from getting waived, re-signed, and then doing nothing his rookie year to being a Pro Bowl level 3-4 DE in an extremely short span of time.

 

And yeah, you're correct about the Bama boys. One big thing about them is definitely being extremely coachable...if they weren't they wouldn't have lasted a week with Saban as it has been mathematically proven that he puts up with precisely zero **** from his players in that regard.

 

As far as Allen being out last year, yeah that was something that immediately stood out to me also as being really downplayed in the video. In the earlier parts of 2017 we obviously weren't as good against the run as we are now but we weren't anywhere near as bad as the rest of the season and one of the main reasons was having Allen in there, though Ioannidis being hurt was also a factor. I think losing Allen was an enormous loss when taking about our run stopping abilities.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The defensive line represents how 180 the personnel department has become. There are teams that would kill to have just one of Allen/Ioan/Payne and we have the pleasure of having all three. It’s incredible really.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In that video, if you watch from :42 - :46 you see exactly what makes Jonathan Allen such a beast. Look at his eyes and where his attention is, he's looking at that short pass all the way and once he realizes it's covered he weasels his way to the QB. I love it, the dude is incredibly smart and uses his hands perfectly. 

Edited by Burgundy Yoda
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Three plays where Preston Smith got there at the same time as Allen or Kerrigan & Ioannidis but he hasn't gotten credit for any sacks.  He's getting pressure, he's just been unlucky.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/2/2018 at 12:30 PM, mistertim said:

 

 

My biggest beef was taking him over Derwin James. And as much as I think Payne is a great addition to our DL and is playing really well, James is looking to be a legit game changing perennial All-Pro already so I'm still not sure which I'd have...I think the trenches are super important but it's not every day you can find a guy like James who seems to basically be a Polamalu/ST clone and is terrorizing offenses all over the field. I think within a couple of years he'll be the best Safety in the NFL.

 

Your analysis avoids two key areas:

 

1.  Would James play in Gus Bradley’s system be reproduced here?  Hard to say, having played for Bradley and also in a 3-4 I can tell you they are very different defenses which ask for different skill sets. Bradley runs 8-man box concepts with Tampa-2 principles as his base (Seattle), with an overriding concept of Keep It Simple. The Safety positions aren’t necessarily interchangeable (Thomas/Chancellor), and players are asked to just be athletes. Manusky’s scheme is much more demanding and needs safeties to be a little more versatile. 

 

2.  James’ health. Remember, part of the reason for his slide in the draft was knee damage, and if I recall correctly, some teams completely took him off the board. No telling what might happen there. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nevermind, the Deadskins suck. Can't really rely on defense to win in today's NFL, rule changes etc. I like defense better but football sucks now and is no longer the same game. Load up on offense and hope to God we get our Patrick Mahomes at some point in the near future. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The defense absolutely killed any shot we had at winning this game, we know what we are and who we have a QB and WR, we got crushed by New Orleans and the defense made it seem as though they figured things out, well they didn't.

 

Not only did they let a weak rushing offense gash us but we got crushed in the passing game as well and we let them convert 77% on 3rd down.

 

This defense and team can't be trusted for the rest of the year, that doesn't mean we will stink it up in every game but on any given Sunday we are fragile enough to be manhandled by teams with potent passing attacks.

 

It's a shame because I really wanted to believe we had a D that would be there every week come hell or high water.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still like our D. Today was a bad day, but thats gonna happen when you're built around a DL that's still extremely young, you're gonna get some inconsistent performances. Also the Falcons offense is exceptional.

 

Its not a dominant D but the fact is in today's NFL, dominant D doesn't exist.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was just a bad day.  I'm not gonna freak out about it.  The big boys had a rough one, they'll come back.  But the LBs didnt help much when the DL was doing ok.

Edited by justice98

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.