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Is this the most talented yet misused defensive front we've had in years?

Vanguard

By Vanguard
in The Stadium

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Darth Tater

Darth Tater

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Posted
21 hours ago, jbird said:

Outside of Mann & Manley & Maybe Bruce Smith we aint ever had a game changing line except on paper, and in our most rabid fan's minds.

 

On paper, Manley and Mann should have never been more than solid starters at best.  In 1982, our front 7 included an alcoholic (Mendenhall), an over the hill elite but probably still good tackle (Butz), another tackle who we got off the NFL trash heap (Brooks), a 5th round pick who said he didn't care about the run, two UDFA linebackers and a late round one. Flash forward to the late 90s, the least talented guy on paper was a 4th rounder. Paper often means ****!

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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“One hundred percent the team that can stop the run and the team that can run the ball effectively in this division will most likely win the division,” Allen said.

 

The Redskins ranked last in rushing yards allowed and 29th in yards per carry last season. They were also last in yards per carry allowed out of their nickel defense, allowing 6.47 yards when they had five defensive backs on the field.

Redskins cornerback Josh Norman said Payne and Allen remind him of Kawann Short and Star Lotulelei, who anchored Carolina’s defense when he played with the Panthers.

 

“Young, sprout and just ready to go,” Norman said. “When they played, it was a difference. They moved men. They’d get to a quarterback and he was able to throw it blind sometimes and get it out of their hands faster than they wanted to. That’s when DBs make plays on the ball. Those two guys remind me of them. They’re shorter impact tanks. I look at that and I love it.

 

“It’s going to bring some fire, some energy and excitement. You got those two bulls up there; we’ve got three of them now.”

The past two preseason games provide snapshots of his ability, especially the game against the Jets. He was locked one-on-one with the right guard, slapping him aside en route to a sack. He was singled up for a simple reason: Allen was being doubled.

Earlier in that series, Payne drove the center back on a quick pass. On a later series, Payne couldn’t be moved off the line of scrimmage, helping clog a 1-yard run. A few plays later, he occupied two blockers on a stunt. Not every play ended successfully for the Redskins’ defense, but Payne provided what they needed.

 

“They’re both strong humans and they’re hard to move and they’re tenacious in their efforts,” Redskins coach Jay Gruden said of Payne and Allen. “When you have talent and you have strength and you’re also tenacious, it’s a heck of a combination."

But it’s hard to separate Payne from the others.

 

“Playing behind them is incredible,” linebacker Mason Foster said, “the way they’re closing gaps off. The windows are closing quick. Running backs have no choice but to cut it in or run at us. ... There’s no need to run up and waste yourself. You let those guys go play and you get ready to play off them. They’re physical freaks and they’ll make something happen.”

In nickel, the linebackers are responsible for two gaps. Foster said that because of the power up front, they can shrink that to covering a gap-and-a-half.

 

“For the most part we play off them and let those guys hunt and we’ll clean up on the back end,” Foster said.

The Redskins’ front hasn’t accomplished anything yet, a fact Allen points out consistently. But the reason for optimism started after Allen was drafted last season and was given a boost with Payne.

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/37022/daron-payne-doesnt-need-hype-nor-an-apostrophe-to-dominate

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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9 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

@Skinsinparadise

 

All that sounds great.  But after the final dress rehearsal for the first teamers against Denver.  I have to taper my excitement a little.  But I still have high hopes. ?

 

Trust me expectations are tempered for me.  For me, I've been clamoring for a stronger D line for years.  I think they are poised to have that this year but I am hesitant to declare any unit special until I see it play out.

 

I like what I've seen and heard about Payne this camp and ditto Settle.  I've been a big J. Allen guy.  But I got to see it all come together now.  I think it likely will -- the only thing I wrestle with in my mind is how good?  Some seem to think it will be a great unit.  I get the argument.  For me though I have to see it.   One wild card for me is when it comes to stopping the run, I read somewhere the running play that hurt us the most was the outside zone.  That brings home that our OLBs will be a factor in our run defense, too.    

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Vanguard

Vanguard

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2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Trust me expectations are tempered for me.  For me, I've been clamoring for a stronger D line for years.  I think they are poised to have that this year but I am hesitant to declare any unit special until I see it play out.

 

I like what I've seen and heard about Payne this camp and ditto Settle.  I've been a big J. Allen guy.  But I got to see it all come together now.  I think it likely will -- the only thing I wrestle with in my mind is how good?  Some seem to think it will be a great unit.  I get the argument.  For me though I have to see it.   One wild card for me is when it comes to stopping the run, I read somewhere the running play that hurt us the most was the outside zone.  That brings home that our OLBs will be a factor in our run defense, too.    

 

Good point.  I have to say I'm a big Matt Ioannidis guy.  I like how he is so impactful with limited opportunities.  And he has shown so much progress and improvement.  I might go ahead and get his jersey.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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7 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

 

Good point.  I have to say I'm a big Matt Ioannidis guy.  I like how he is so impactful with limited opportunities.  And he has shown so much progress and improvement.  I might go ahead and get his jersey.

 

He's my most obscure accurate draft guess of all time.  On the draft thread that year when the 5th round started, I go how about Ionnaidis? ?Then we took him shortly later.  I like him, too.  

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dyst

dyst

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46 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

@Skinsinparadise

 

All that sounds great.  But after the final dress rehearsal for the first teamers against Denver.  I have to taper my excitement a little.  But I still have high hopes. ?

Exactly. Players always talk up their teammates. AP thinks this is a great group of RBs. Ryan Clark said the secondary was the most talent he’d been around.

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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

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2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He's my most obscure accurate draft guess of all time.  On the draft thread that year when the 5th round started, I go how about Ionnaidis? ?Then we took him shortly later.  I like him, too.  

My best draft call is still cousins, but I was happy the big greek from Temple was drafted. 

 

I like Allen. A lot. But I still wish we went with Howard. 

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Anselmheifer

Anselmheifer

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I love Allen and Payne. I think there is a chance that Ioannidis is the best of the three this year. I don't think he has the highest ceiling, but I think he looked the best in the preseason before the injury, and his production has been very good, especially as a pass rusher. 

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C26 Run

C26 Run

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On 6/13/2018 at 8:15 PM, bowhunter said:

I love the prospect of having a healthy Big Phil clog the middle. But, with the additions of  both Payne and Settle, would we have roster room for the man? There are going to be some tough cuts on this roster, and like FB, I just don't see room for NT #2 (or 3 depending on where you label Payne.)

 

We could never have enough big D-linemen on this team.  I'm not so sure Hood is a lock to make this team.  Payne could also play DE, with PT as a NT. 

 

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OVCChairman

OVCChairman

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10 hours ago, C26 Run said:

 

We could never have enough big D-linemen on this team.  I'm not so sure Hood is a lock to make this team.  Payne could also play DE, with PT as a NT. 

 

 

 

Hood getting cut would be a big time surprise to me... I would worry about the DE position if he was released... That would leave Allen / Ioannidis / Lanier with Payne being athletic enough to line up out there..  I would almost prefer to carry 2 DTs and be able to flex Allen / Ioan inside, instead of carrying 3 DE and needing to move one of the big boys out in a pinch.   

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Morneblade

Morneblade

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6 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Is there a reason Settle or Taylor can’t play 3 tech?  Because if they can, I like their versatility and upside more than Hood.  

 

They had Phil playing it in the last game, but I can't say he looked good doing so. Honestly, I'd keep Hood, who has been quite good at DE, over trying to move our NT's out to play DE.

 

I liked what I saw out of Taylor in the middle, (he stopped almost all movement in the middle) but watching try to run was painful. I think you have to keep Hood over Taylor.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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#Redskins have released DL Anthony Lanier, according to source.

 

 Cooley would be happy, recall he had a man crush on the dude before that years draft

 

Matthew Paras‏ @Matthew_Paras
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The Redskins release Anthony Lanier. They signed Caleb Brantley

 
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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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Craig Hoffman was just on.  Said that Lanier being one dimensional didn't fit in as well as they liked with what they had cooking on the D line.  They like his personality.  He might clear waivers and its possible that he stays -- I presume on practice squad?    He said a personnel executive told him more or less Brantley has the talent to be really good -- question is will his personality/work ethic kick in so it happens.

 

Jeremiah on him before the draft

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000775479/article/daniel-jeremiahs-top-50-prospects-for-2017-nfl-draft

Brantley has average height and bulk for the position, but he possesses outstanding quickness. He's consistently disruptive against the pass lining up as a three-technique. He has an explosive first step with violent hands to free himself from blockers. He has a lot of success with a quick club-swim move. While he does generate a lot of pressure on the quarterback, he needs to improve as a finisher. Against the run, he is at his best on slants because of his outstanding quickness. He can shoot gaps and be a nuisance. He does get too high at times and will get uprooted. His effort is very good against both the run and pass. Overall, Brantley doesn't have a lot of production, but he has a skill set that should translate very well at the next level.

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JaxJoe

JaxJoe

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Looks like Caleb Brantley’s woes followed him to the NFL. This 2017 draft commentary summarizes / predicts Caleb Brantly pretty good. 

 

 

 

One cut-up vs. FSU shows the talent Caleb Brantley has but also how he just gives up on plays; seems lost at times; isn't aware. 

 

 

There is serious talent there but can Tomsula tap that?  Get the most out of him? Frankly, I doubt it. 

 

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JaxJoe

JaxJoe

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13 hours ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

Hell yes, he can. The rest is up to health and motivation of Brantley. Looks like a very impressive DL.   :) 

I certainly hope so, too. He has serious talent. He just needs to keep hustling until he hears the whistle. 

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