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Daniel Snyder ...Dare We Say Maturing....as a competent owner

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33 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

So...is Dan Snyder maturing as an NFL owner? :opus:

 

On some level, it appears that way.  But he's way late to the party and hasn't matured at a pace fast enough to be worthy of any praise.  I don't think there is enough information out there at our disposal to make a determination on whether or not he's actually competent at this point.

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10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Nope.  But they are a factor.  

 

 

How do you plan to do your own fact finding mission on Dan?

 

 

Nope.  I am saying if you are douche to the media they are less likely to give you the benefit of the doubt on something than if they like you.

 

 For example Jay is liked by the people covering the team.  They in turn tend to be nicer to him.  Coincidence?

 

Running with your point -- I don't see how all these points work together.  Something has to give in the mix.

A.  Some see Bruce/Dan as a douche.  And there are multiple stories on this front.  

B.  If so some in the media may not have the back of a douche the way they will with someone likeable

C.  How do we know if Bruce/Dan are douches since we didn't experience it directly (that's your point)

D. If Dan/Bruce really are sweet guys why are so many people picking on them for no reason?  Were they randomly selected by all the members of the media in some raffle and they decided together lets turn this person's reputation upside down for kicks?

 

A & B work hand in hand.  A & B is where I am at.   C & D not so much.

 

Wouldn't there have be a reason to slam Dan?   It's just a coincidence that all these people from different stripes -- covering different teams, the local team, the national guys, ex-employees -- all of them came together in one grand attempt to damage Dan just because whatever? 

 

 

 

 

You are kind of overlooking a major point here. Reporters in all forms of media are not doing their job for hugs and pats on the back - they are doing it for cash $$$ and if you are selling something to a population then you need to know what sells - if that makes sense.

 

In Dallas JJ gets mostly good press ( and players mostly bad press) because in Texas they want to know their team - the American team is awesome and the best and so selling a message of discord in Dallas about the cowboys is a much tougher sell than an article pumping up the team . Seriously go and read the articles about the Cowboys in the WP equivalents and they are nauseating in their (almost blind) optimism. BUT that is what sells .

 

DC is a different market and there needs to be scandal - and this goes way back - from JKCs feud with the WT to the stupid Sony or Billy thing that went on with in the 70's, and winning doesn't really make it go away . Controversy (or dysfunction)  sells and it is in the medias interest to maintain this dysfunctional narrative (at the moment it is make a panto villan of Bruce Allen)   - but the reality is usually very different... more often more boring and doesn't sell stories..

 

For example it is much easier to spin the story about the ceremony to give the replacement players from 1987 rings (which should have happened a long time ago)  into a negative -evil Dan Snyder trying to steel the glory of the Caps (capitals right - the ice hockey team? I honestly don't know who they are) win to boost his own ego - rather than report it as it is - a coincidence. 

 

Boring doesn't sell - Reporters of all colors try and spice up a story - it is better to actually listen to primary sources (so full press confrences rather than snippets)  and draw your own conclusions but these are not always available so it is necessary to acquire information from secondary sources (news reports ) and it is rare that you can get the whole story from  individual news sources - but if you listen to enough sources from a broad spectrum of outlets then you get a better picture of what is going on 

 

But the media thing is really a red herring in this debate. The question posed by the OP ( and i am paraphrasing here)  was not - should we give Dan a tickertape parade for doing some basic stuff - but compared to how things were (maybe 10 years ago) where he was seen to be visibly impulsive, hands on and impatient - are things he is doing make you feel more possitive for the future of the team - If he stays on this path ?   

 

Is Dan and the direction of the team better now - or 10+ years ago when Dan first bought the team (note there is not a third option to this question - its one or the other) 

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49 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

So...is Dan Snyder maturing as an NFL owner? :opus:

 

 

 

NO. after years of being called out for his petulance and clowned for childish behavior dan has simply learned to keep his tantrums private and hide his pettiness.

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34 minutes ago, bedlamVR said:

 

In Dallas JJ gets mostly good press ( and players mostly bad press) because in Texas they want to know their team - the American team is awesome and the best and so selling a message of discord in Dallas about the cowboys is a much tougher sell than an article pumping up the team . Seriously go and read the articles about the Cowboys in the WP equivalents and they are nauseating in their (almost blind) optimism. BUT that is what sells .

 

 

Not from my exposure.  I like reading all the NFC East newspapers and listen to some of their talk radio.  Especially as to their talk radio shows plenty are critical of Jones, some of those personalities actually go on 106.7 shows and make guest appearances and you can get their slant.  Jones some like, some don't like as to the job he does.  People like him as a person because he comes off as a nice and charasimatic guy.   Plenty are critical of his job -- its practically a celebration there that his son has taking the reigns for the most part and they've turned a corner.  Their head of player personnel is also considered a rock star by many.   They've drafted well in recent years. 

 

34 minutes ago, bedlamVR said:

 

DC is a different market and there needs to be scandal - and this goes way back - from JKCs feud with the WT to the stupid Sony or Billy thing that went on with in the 70's, and winning doesn't really make it go away . Controversy (or dysfunction)  sells and it is in the medias interest to maintain this dysfunctional narrative (at the moment it is make a panto villan of Bruce Allen)   - but the reality is usually very different... more often more boring and doesn't sell stories..

 

 

Why did the media for the most part like Scot?  Why do they seem to like Jay?  Why are the picking on Bruce/Dan specifically -- they are just great guys but the poor saps are victims of the media needing to scapegoat someone?  Think of the reputations of all those people's personalities.  I just don't see how its incidental or just random circumstance. 

 

Sheehan who worked technically for Dan (and said the same many times out of Redskins Park building when Dan owned the team) and is pro Redskins name guy and the whole drill -- has said multiple times that as a Redskins fan he would like to see the team emulate the Capitals -- that is become a winner but also operate with class.  Is he in on this, too?    The sarcasm isn't directed your way but how can it be all these moving parts?

 

For example why do the NY beat guys and Philly beat guys decide to pick specifically on the Redskins ownership?  None of that fits your point about this being a DC centric culture thing.  National draft geeks kick in on it.  Beat guys from other teams.  National reporters.  Ex-coaches.  Ex-employees.  It would have to be a nationally coordinated conspiracy of epic proportions for it to all work in concert -- let alone how nuts would it be for them all to pick on unfairly a great guy and they just want to flip his rep just because? 

 

34 minutes ago, bedlamVR said:

 

For example it is much easier to spin the story about the ceremony to give the replacement players from 1987 rings (which should have happened a long time ago)  into a negative -evil Dan Snyder trying to steel the glory of the Caps (capitals right - the ice hockey team? I honestly don't know who they are) win to boost his own ego - rather than report it as it is - a coincidence. 

 

 

I've heard beat guys defend that it was mere coincidence just the other day including Tandler and Finlay.  I haven't paid attention to who is slamming it but the point brings home one of my points is that the media isn't one monolithic body.  Everyone has their own take and angle.

 

34 minutes ago, bedlamVR said:

 

But the media thing is really a red herring in this debate. The question posed by the OP ( and i am paraphrasing here)  was not - should we give Dan a tickertape parade for doing some basic stuff - but compared to how things were (maybe 10 years ago) where he was seen to be visibly impulsive, hands on and impatient - are things he is doing make you feel more possitive for the future of the team - If he stays on this path ?   

 

Is Dan and the direction of the team better now - or 10+ years ago when Dan first bought the team (note there is not a third option to this question - its one or the other) 

 

From my perspective, I just haven't noticed a major plug for any owner in any sport for doing SOME things better but still not modeling the better organizations in a holistic way.  That team has had a mediocre run.  And where is the recognition?   I just think you guys are asking for something unprecedented.    To turn a corner, from bad -- its not bad to mediocre really in anything I can think of that gets notice. 

 

For Dan to be giving a nod for this -- it would be odd unless I am missing some examples that are escaping me.  The idea that the team isn't terrible but mediocre -- I think the beat guys are on board with the story, I don't think that escapes them.  They cover the team in that way.   Yeah its not leading to fluff stories about Dan because its not that much of an accomplishment.  And unlike Jerry, Dan is in the shadows so much now that you don't really get much play from the media period one way or another.

 

Edit:  And let me double down on a point made earlier.  How Dan is as a guy and how he is as an owner are two different subjects.  The point I am centering on is how are they at their jobs.  And the idea that they aren't always the most warm and fuzzy types (though according to some they can be if they are in the right mood and with the right company) can add some zing to the coverage they get -- because heck people are people and instinctively many treat others they like personally differently than ones that they don't like personally.  Back to your Jerry Jones example, his personality is a valuable weapon with the media because the dude is likable. 

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1 hour ago, onedrop said:

NO. after years of being called out for his petulance and clowned for childish behavior dan has simply learned to keep his tantrums private and hide his pettiness.

 

But wouldn't realizing he needs to keep his childish behavior private be a sign of gaining maturity?

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Not addressing all of this as honestly @Skinsinparadise as always did a very good job. But there is one thing I am curious about:  

 

2 hours ago, bedlamVR said:

 

edit

 

For example it is much easier to spin the story about the ceremony to give the replacement players from 1987 rings (which should have happened a long time ago)  into a negative -evil Dan Snyder trying to steel the glory of the Caps (capitals right - the ice hockey team? I honestly don't know who they are) win to boost his own ego - rather than report it as it is - a coincidence. 

Edit

 

While I have seen some fans spinning it like this - see the previous page - I have yet to see any media do so. Does not mean it has not happened as there are an awful lot of media. But none of the main people covering the team or any of the national media saying anything other than it was a coincidence. If you have proof of this spin by the media can you please share the link? 

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Not addressing all of this as honestly @Skinsinparadise as always did a very good job. But there is one thing I am curious about:  

 

 

While I have seen some fans spinning it like this - see the previous page - I have yet to see any media do so. Does not mean it has not happened as there are an awful lot of media. But none of the main people covering the team or any of the national media saying anything other than it was a coincidence. If you have proof of this spin by the media can you please share the link? 

 

 

 

I haven't heard it from the media, either...but fans on twitter? Holy **** lol...twitter is a magnet for asinine fan rantings on all topics.

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I recognize it was a coincidence that the ceremony aligned with the same day as the parade.  I just realized though that it’s literally going on at the exact same time as the parade.  The Washington Redskins just went live on my FB feed and I was thinking they were going to be live at the parade showing love but no, it was Wylie stumbling and bumbling through the intro to the ring ceremony.  I think it’s safe to say pretty much nobody in the area is caring about this right now.  I would have atleast bumped this to another time slot in the day.

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43 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I recognize it was a coincidence that the ceremony aligned with the same day as the parade.  I just realized though that it’s literally going on at the exact same time as the parade.  The Washington Redskins just went live on my FB feed and I was thinking they were going to be live at the parade showing love but no, it was Wylie stumbling and bumbling through the intro to the ring ceremony.  I think it’s safe to say pretty much nobody in the area is caring about this right now.  I would have atleast bumped this to another time slot in the day.

 

Unpopular opinion: Few people in the area care about it anyway. To most people under the age of 30, the reaction is "cool, some people who played before I was born finally got the rings they deserved" and that's the end of it. To most people over 30, they probably have more important/interesting things to do than watch some people get presented rings.

 

I saw the announcement that they'd get rings, but I had no idea it would be today. (To be fair, I had no idea the Caps' parade was today either.)

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19 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

 

Unpopular opinion: Few people in the area care about it anyway. To most people under the age of 30, the reaction is "cool, some people who played before I was born finally got the rings they deserved" and that's the end of it. To most people over 30, they probably have more important/interesting things to do than watch some people get presented rings.

 

I saw the announcement that they'd get rings, but I had no idea it would be today. (To be fair, I had no idea the Caps' parade was today either.)

 

I agree with you.  I actually thought if they really wanted to garner any type of care about it they would do it at halftime of a preseason game or something at minimum.

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1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I recognize it was a coincidence that the ceremony aligned with the same day as the parade.  I just realized though that it’s literally going on at the exact same time as the parade.  The Washington Redskins just went live on my FB feed and I was thinking they were going to be live at the parade showing love but no, it was Wylie stumbling and bumbling through the intro to the ring ceremony.  I think it’s safe to say pretty much nobody in the area is caring about this right now.  I would have atleast bumped this to another time slot in the day.

 

Here's my take...

 

1) To get it out of the way, there's no way the Redskins could have re-scheduled on such short notice. This was apparently planned months ago. 

2) I suppose they could have delayed it until 3 or 4pm, but why? It's not open to the public and is only being covered by reporters. My guess is that the fan side of this will be handled at halftime of a home game. 

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On 6/12/2018 at 11:19 AM, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I recognize it was a coincidence that the ceremony aligned with the same day as the parade.  I just realized though that it’s literally going on at the exact same time as the parade.  The Washington Redskins just went live on my FB feed and I was thinking they were going to be live at the parade showing love but no, it was Wylie stumbling and bumbling through the intro to the ring ceremony.  I think it’s safe to say pretty much nobody in the area is caring about this right now.  I would have atleast bumped this to another time slot in the day.

 

I am usually at least somewhat with you but this one I am not. Just not seeing how it's on the Redskins who had this planned for months to at the last minute change everything when the Capitals who knew exactly when the Redskins would be doing their ceremony and still scheduled right on top it. Why couldn't the Capitals who had full knowledge of the ring ceremony Schedule the parade an hour later? Why did they have to pick he exact hour the redskins were having the ring thing? I am up for a good DS bashing pretty much any time, but this one is not reasonable.

 

And why would the Redskins Facebook page stream the Capitals parade? What about the Capitals Facebook page? Can't you see it there? Isn't it on live TV (I am asking since I am not in the area)? There are actually people (not me) that like the Redskins and could cate less about hockey. If you were one of those people how pissed would you be to tune into the Redskins ring ceremony only to see hockey?

 

 

On 6/12/2018 at 12:20 PM, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I agree with you.  I actually thought if they really wanted to garner any type of care about it they would do it at halftime of a preseason game or something at minimum.

 

I could be wrong but my guess is the league said they could not do it. Or they at least made it clear the league would not be happy. And the last time the Redskins went against that they got a $36M CAP fine. Just a guess.

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4 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I am usually at least somewhat with you but this one I am not. Just not seeing how it's on the Redskins who had this planned for months to at the last minute change everything when the Capitols who knew exactly when the Redskins would be doing their ceremony and still scheduled right on top it. Why couldn't the Capitols who had full knowledge of the ring ceremony Schedule the parade an hour later? Why did they have to pick he exact hour the redskins were having the ring thing? I am up for a good DS bashing pretty much any time, but this one is not reasonable.

 

 

I don't blame the Caps one bit...it's not necessarily on them to worry about a small, not-open-to-the-public event like this. 

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12 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

I could be wrong but my guess is the league said they could not do it. Or they at least made it clear the league would not be happy. And the last time the Redskins went against that they got a $36M CAP fine. Just a guess.

 

 

Yeah, these were scab, picket-line-breaking players lol...I don't see having a ceremony celebrating them would have gone over too well with current union players or the league.

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On 6/12/2018 at 12:41 PM, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I don't blame the Caps one bit...it's not necessarily on them to worry about a small, not-open-to-the-public event like this. 

 

Where did I blame the Capitals? I didn't. The point was and is that it's ridiculous to blame the Redskins. It's not blaming the Capitals to point out factually that they had the chance to make it a different time and chose, knowing it would be in direct competition with the Redskins, still chose to plan their event the exact same time. The Capitals could have picked any other time - just an hour plus or minus. They choose not to. That's fine - I repeat, that's totally fine. 

 

My point - not directed at you who seem to be in three same place for the Redskins - was and is why is this a bad thing for the Redskins?

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1 minute ago, goskins10 said:

 

Where did I blame the Capitols? I didn't. The point was and is that it's ridiculous to blame the Redskins. It's not blaming the Capitols to point out factually that they had the chance to make it a different time and chose, knowing it would be in direct competition with the Redskins, still chose to plan their event the exact same time. The Capitols could have picked any other time - just an hour plus or minus. They choose not to. That's fine - I repeat, that's totally fine. 

 

My point - not directed at you who seem to be in three same place for the Redskins - was and is why is this a bad thing for the Redskins?

 

Oh, I misunderstood. First of all, I agree with you that I have no issue with the Redskins on this. Secondly, rather than say "blame" I should have said that I also don't think it's incumbent on the Caps to worry about the Redskins' ceremony when planning the parade. 

 

In short, this was a coincidence where I don't believe anyone is in the wrong. It's also not a big deal as I'm sure the scab players will be trotted out at halftime of a game this fall in front of 70,000 fans. 

 

I think you and I agree on this. :)

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On ‎6‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 12:53 PM, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Oh, I misunderstood. First of all, I agree with you that I have no issue with the Redskins on this. Secondly, rather than say "blame" I should have said that I also don't think it's incumbent on the Caps to worry about the Redskins' ceremony when planning the parade. 

 

In short, this was a coincidence where I don't believe anyone is in the wrong. It's also not a big deal as I'm sure the scab players will be trotted out at halftime of a game this fall in front of 70,000 fans. 

 

I think you and I agree on this. :)

 

We do agree. I see no reason the Capitals should have worried about the Redskins thing but there is equally no reason for the Redskins to make any changes. It's a whole lot of nothing to me.

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3 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

But wouldn't realizing he needs to keep his childish behavior private be a sign of gaining maturity?

 

sure, the same way a raging alcoholic that simply changes to drinking in isolation is getting ahold of their problem.

 

the face one chooses to show the world doesn't matter if the core is rotten.

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59 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

Why couldn't the Capitols who had full knowledge of the ring ceremony Schedule the parade an hour later? Why did they have to pick he exact hour the redskins were having the ring thing? I am up for a good DS bashing pretty much any time, but this one is not reasonable.

That seems a bit silly.  One is scheduling a parade for their first championship in their existence that's bringing in over 100K people to DC and the other is celebrating replacement players from a championship 30 years ago.

 

I realize it's a Dan Snyder thread but the intent of my post wasn't to bash Dan.  I was just commenting on the current discussion.  I even said that I realize it's a coincidence that both things are happening on the same day.  I don't think it was some malicious plot by Dan to steal shine from the Capitals, which I don't think is even possible.  I just think if they really wanted a chance to garner attention for this event, it would have been best to reschedule it to a time when some folks in the city might actually care about it.

 

59 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

And why would the Redskins Facebook page stream the Capitols parade? What about the Capitols Facebook page? Can't you see it there? Isn't it on live TV (I am asking since I am not in the area)? There are actually people (not me) that like the Redskins and could cate less about hockey. If you were one of those people how pissed would you be to tune into the Redskins ring ceremony only to see hockey?

 

I'm not saying that the Redskins have to stream or be present at the Capitals parade.  I merely said that's what I expected them to be 'Live on FB' about considering the time.  Redskins social media actually did a good job supporting the caps throughout this SC run.  I understand you're not in the area so its probably not resonating with you, but it's freaking Caps Mania everywhere within 60 miles of DC. 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, onedrop said:

 

sure, the same way a raging alcoholic that simply changes to drinking in isolation is getting ahold of their problem.

 

the face one chooses to show the world doesn't matter if the core is rotten.

 

I purposefully left the "lol" off of that post to see if anyone would take it seriously lol...sorry about that.

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15 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don't think it was some malicious plot by Dan to steal shine from the Capitals, which I don't think is even possible. 

 

 

Don't be so sure...if the Redskins for some reason really wanted to steal the spotlight, they could. You don't think announcing details about the next stadium would have stolen a lot of the news cycles in this area? 

 

We can talk about the gain in Caps popularity all we want, but until 3 weeks ago many LONGTIME CAPS FANS were devastated and saying "same old Caps" or "time to blow this up" when it looked like they were about to blow a 2-0 lead in the ECF. Ratings for the post-season didn't improve even over last year until it was clear that they were going to advance further than they had in 20 years. The vast majority of their popularity will recede pretty quickly. 

 

My point isn't to kill the Caps or the fans who are newly interested...it's to illustrate that the Redskins could have stolen this thunder without much effort (not that they should have wanted to or would have). 

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Just now, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Don't be so sure...if the Redskins for some reason really wanted to steal the spotlight, they could. You don't think announcing details about the next stadium would have stolen a lot of the news cycles in this area? 

 

We can talk about the gain in Caps popularity all we want, but until 3 weeks ago many LONGTIME CAPS FANS were devastated and saying "same old Caps" or "time to blow this up" when it looked like they were about to blow a 2-0 lead in the ECF. Ratings for the post-season didn't improve even over last year until it was clear that they were going to advance further than they had in 20 years. The vast majority of their popularity will recede pretty quickly. 

 

My point isn't to kill the Caps or the fans who are newly interested...it's to illustrate that the Redskins could have stolen this thunder without much effort (not that they should have wanted to or would have). 

There is absolutely nothing that this current regime of the Washington Redskins could do to steal any shine from what's going on now with the Caps.  Well, except maybe announce that Dan is selling the team.  But even then, that would be a blip on the radar until later this evening or tomorrow morning.  Announcing a new stadium would absolutely be secondary to what's going on right now with the Caps. 

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Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

There is absolutely nothing that this current regime of the Washington Redskins could do to steal any shine from what's going on now with the Caps.  Well, except maybe announce that Dan is selling the team.  But even then, that would be a blip on the radar until later this evening or tomorrow morning.  Announcing a new stadium would absolutely be secondary to what's going on right now with the Caps. 

Your statement isn't wrong, it's just not complete. 

 

For long-time fans, of course. For the vast majority of sports fans in this area who have deeper ties to the Redskins, a new stadium or similar news would absolutely trump this parade. So, if we can accurately say that the interest in the Caps tripled between the start of the playoffs and them winning the title (based on local viewership), then I think 2/3 of the "new fan base" would look right back over to Ashburn today if big Redskin news came out. 

 

I'm an example, I got swept up in the Stanley Cup run and was elated when the Caps won. Today, I'm fired up about what I'm reading about Alex Smith at OTAs...

 

Again, I'm not arguing what's fair or that the Caps deserve less attention...I'm simply stating what I believe to be true based on how people have followed sports in DC over the past 25 years. 

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11 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I'm an example, I got swept up in the Stanley Cup run and was elated when the Caps won. Today, I'm fired up about what I'm reading about Alex Smith at OTAs...

 

Again, I'm not arguing what's fair or that the Caps deserve less attention...I'm simply stating what I believe to be true based on how people have followed sports in DC over the past 25 years. 

 

There is no doubt that DC is still a football town but it's not what it used to be by a large margin.  Sure, there are some folks like yourself, that are pumped about what the QB did in OTA's.  But you're a dying breed.  The Redskins fan base still has a heartbeat and a healthy dose of winning would surely bring it back to life.  But as each year of Dan's ownership passes, there are more football fans that don't really give a crap about what this team did 25+ years ago. 

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