Crowder vs. Richardson

[Vanguard]

Who is actually the better receiver between the two?  Who's better at stretching the field, and who's better after the catch?  I'm not really sure.

[skins_warrior]

The better receiver is clearly Crowder. 
1. Durability - 47 games played in 3 seasons.
2. Production - 192 catches, 2,240 yards, 12 Tds
3. Reliability - 68% Catch Rate 

Paul Richardson
1. Injury Prone - 47 games played in 4 seasons, 2 ACL tears
2. Lack of Production - 95 catches, 1,302 yards, 8 tds
3. Unreliable/Inconsistency - 58% Catch Rate, 3 out of 4 NFL seasons he had 300 yards or less.

Intangibles:

1. Stretching field: Richardson > Crowder (probably the only thing Richardson has over Crowder, and Crowder ran a 4.46)
2. After catch: Richardson = Crowder

The floor with Crowder is much higher, at least 59 catches and 600+ yards in each of his 3 seasons. His best season was 847 yards and 7 tds, which is pretty stellar too for a slot guy. Richardson has no floor, and his ceiling is essentially what he did last year IMO. He will be our deep threat and probably get 400-500 yards if he stays healthy all 16 games. We paid for that 4.3-4.4 speed hoping it would be the element missing to stretch the field, and open up lanes for Reed, Crowder, Doctson underneath. 

[XxSpearheadxX]

I'm hoping on richardson. He balled out last year. Double acls, no matter how minor, is scary. 

[HTTRDynasty]

19 minutes ago, skins_warrior said:

3. Inconsistency - 58% Catch Rate

 

I agree with the rest of your post, but I don't think you can hold Richardson's catch rate against him.  In 2017, he had the 10th most average targeted air yards in the league at 15.0, which means his QB was consistently targeting him down-field: https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving#average-intended-yards.  If you look at the WRs ahead of him, they all had catch rates below 60%.  In fact, if you go down the list, the first WR with a catch rate greater than 60% was Antonio Brown, who was 23rd on the average targeted air yards list.  Those 22 WRs ahead of Brown include Julio Jones at 59.46% and Alshon Jeffery at 47.5%.

 

Crowder, meanwhile was 22nd to the bottom in average targeted air yards at 7.6; he's obviously going to have a better catch rate because of it.

[skins_warrior]

5 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I agree with the rest of your post, but I don't think you can hold Richardson's catch rate against him.  In 2017, he had the 10th most average targeted air yards in the league at 15.0, which means his QB was consistently targeting him down-field: https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving#average-intended-yards.  If you look at the WRs ahead of him, they all had catch rates below 60%.  In fact, if you go down the list, the first WR with a catch rate greater than 60% was Antonio Brown, who was 23rd on the average targeted air yards list.  Those 22 WRs ahead of Brown include Julio Jones at 59.46% and Alshon Jeffery at 47.5%.

 

Crowder, meanwhile was 22nd to the bottom in average targeted air yards at 7.6; he's obviously going to have a better catch rate because of it.

Sure you can nit pick. But the overall point is 3 out of 4 NFL seasons he had 300 yards or less. Overall he is unreliable and inconsistent. He is not Jordan Reed - when healthy dominating...even when he was healthy before this past season he struggled.

This past year he had the benefit of having no other WR in front of him on the depth chart after Baldwin....and he had one of the best off-schedule QBs of this era throwing him the football....that combined with his speed is more an aberration of why he had such a seemingly decently productive season. 

I like Richadsons raw speed. We all understand we overpaid for it. He is inconsistent and unreliable, and not someone you want to bet on. Clearly I hope he proves me wrong this season. But if history is any indication, its very, very unlikely.

[HTTRDynasty]

2 minutes ago, skins_warrior said:

Sure you can nit pick. But the overall point is 3 out of 4 NFL seasons he had 300 yards or less....haha

 

Haha, for sure.  I think that's definitely health-related though as opposed to any skill-related deficiencies.  But availability will always be the best ability.  He needs to prove he can stay healthy for two seasons in a row.

[skins_warrior]

14 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I agree with the rest of your post, but I don't think you can hold Richardson's catch rate against him.  In 2017, he had the 10th most average targeted air yards in the league at 15.0, which means his QB was consistently targeting him down-field: https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/receiving#average-intended-yards.  If you look at the WRs ahead of him, they all had catch rates below 60%.  In fact, if you go down the list, the first WR with a catch rate greater than 60% was Antonio Brown, who was 23rd on the average targeted air yards list.  Those 22 WRs ahead of Brown include Julio Jones at 59.46% and Alshon Jeffery at 47.5%.

 

Crowder, meanwhile was 22nd to the bottom in average targeted air yards at 7.6; he's obviously going to have a better catch rate because of it.

Good points here and perspective. I like Richardsons skill set and raw talent. 
That said, I am not expecting much from him this year. I'd hope he can catch 4 to 5 plays of 30+ yards are more, I'll call that about what I'd expect him to give us, and be surprised he provided us more. I won't be surprised if he pulls a hamstring during preseason and plays less than 8 games.

Gruden seemed to get better at times in managing D.Jax playing time. Hope he can limit Richardson playing time, and use him very effectively/efficiently/optimize his talents during situations, to keep him fresh and healthy all 16.

[RWJ]

Might want to entitle the thread "Cowder vs. Quinn".  I think Quinn will take over as slot WR sometime this season.  Just a guess.

[Conn]

44 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Might want to entitle the thread "Cowder vs. Quinn".  I think Quinn will take over as slot WR sometime this season.  Just a guess.

 

Take over as in beat out Crowder? As a 7th round rookie? That's ridiculous. And I say that as someone who thinks Crowder is fairly overrated by Skins fans in general. 

[KillBill26]

9 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

Take over as in beat out Crowder? As a 7th round rookie? That's ridiculous. And I say that as someone who thinks Crowder is fairly overrated by Skins fans in general. 

I agree, odds of Quinn beating out Crowder in 2018 are slim to none.  But the comparison we should be looking at is: can Quinn show us enough in 2018 for us to be confident that Quinn at his rookie contract salary in subsequent 3 years will have better value than crowder at the salary his new contract will command, probably at least 8 mil per.  And through that lens, I think it's very possible for Quinn to "beat out" crowder with a decent 2018 showing.

[KillBill26]

As far as crowder vs Richardson, I think it's hard for anyone to say Richardson is the better of the two, considering crowder has played almost double the snaps and his stats are far superior.  But I think the value in wr like Richardson, and d Jax before him, is that stretching the field will allow the offense as a whole to be more efficient with underneath routes opening up.  And the comparison becomes even more difficult knowing that if Richardson is stretching the field as he is expected to, it could lead to an uptick in stats for crowder, making it seem crowder is superior to Richardson, whereas it is only the result of each of them performing their role equally well.

[Snagletooth]

Not sure what role the coaches see as the best fit for Robert Davis.  Would be great for him to settle into that role as a deep threat to spread the field.

[beachboy757]

Going by stats and production Crowder is better. I don't think Crowder is overrated by Redskins fans either.  I think most probably think he is good but not elite. My only concern with him is each season there has been a period where he disappears for a few games. For the money he is making now and where he was drafted, I don't see how anyone could think he is under-performing?

 

I don't know much about Richardson. He seems to have good speed and ball tracking from highlights that I've seen but his low production has kept my expectations tempered. I will be more excited to see J Reed back to healthy and Doctson step up than seeing Richardson honestly.

[volsmet]

6 hours ago, RWJ said:

Might want to entitle the thread "Cowder vs. Quinn".  I think Quinn will take over as slot WR sometime this season.  Just a guess.

 

You think Crowder would have been the #3 option at SMU this year? ?

5 hours ago, KillBill26 said:

I agree, odds of Quinn beating out Crowder in 2018 are slim to none.  But the comparison we should be looking at is: can Quinn show us enough in 2018 for us to be confident that Quinn at his rookie contract salary in subsequent 3 years will have better value than crowder at the salary his new contract will command, probably at least 8 mil per.  And through that lens, I think it's very possible for Quinn to "beat out" crowder with a decent 2018 showing.

 

[volsmet]

5 hours ago, KillBill26 said:

As far as crowder vs Richardson, I think it's hard for anyone to say Richardson is the better of the two, considering crowder has played almost double the snaps and his stats are far superior.  But I think the value in wr like Richardson, and d Jax before him, is that stretching the field will allow the offense as a whole to be more efficient with underneath routes opening up.  And the comparison becomes even more difficult knowing that if Richardson is stretching the field as he is expected to, it could lead to an uptick in stats for crowder, making it seem crowder is superior to Richardson, whereas it is only the result of each of them performing their role equally well.

 

People seem to like the perceived benefit of taking the top off of a defense more than the actual benefit of moving the chains. This likely stems from unresolved prom night frustrations that linger in our subconscious. 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Richardson is definitely unproven, think we signed him for what he “could” be as opposed to what he is. Crowder is clearly the better player as of today. I hope PR can be the guy we think he could.

 

People mention PR taking the top off a defense but I think the reality is he’s nowhere near what Desean was in that regard. I get the sense from his “best plays” highlights that he is a 15-20 yard chunk kind of receiver. Not a 40yd+ take a top off a defense type of player. 

This is outside of all his other issues, injuries/drops/uneven at best production up to this point in his career.

 

So I’m not expecting anything too crazy from him, but I do think he’ll have his best year statistically with us. Hope he becomes something special.??

[Vanguard]

1 hour ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

 

People mention PR taking the top off a defense but I think the reality is he’s nowhere near what Desean was in that regard. I get the sense from his “best plays” highlights that he is a 15-20 yard chunk kind of receiver. Not a 40yd+ take a top off a defense type of player. 

This is outside of all his other issues, injuries/drops/uneven at best production up to this point in his career.

 

So I’m not expecting anything too crazy from him, but I do think he’ll have his best year statistically with us. Hope he becomes something special.??

 

I do somewhat agree that from his highlights he looks like more of a 15-20 yard chunk receiver.  I feel like we need him to be the 40 yd take the top off the defense receiver, because that's what we're missing.  We have weapons, but that's what I believe we are lacking.

[Renegade7]

This thread is too early.  In theory, Richardson, but its tough for me to compare the two because Crowder's rookie season was so much better then his sophomore.   Richardson has higher ceiling, but I'm waiting for August to see where they are both at now.

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

Last year's Crowder was a bit of a disappointment and i admittedly haven't watched a ton of Seahawk games so this a tough one to call. Based on the fact Crowder knows the system and has showed some pro bowl talent at times you have to give the nod to #80. 

[wit33]

Richardson has the potential to impact the game more if he can take the top off and make defenses plan for his speed in some games. I like that he’s proven he can adjust and go up and get balls in the air as well as get past defenders. 

 

The NFL these days is fine with guys like Crowder (many in the league) catching balls underneath coverages, then tighten up in the red zone. Hoping the Skins don’t choose to overpay for his services, but the coaches love him. 

[NoCalMike]

Richardson's ceiling is a poor-man's D-Jax.  If you look at D-Jax's numbers overall as a Skin, they don't jump out at you, but his intangibles are what him worth the money.  The threat he presented on the field at any given time did a lot to open underneath routes for Crowder & Reed.

 

Richardson's job will be to stretch the field and force the defense not to cheat on the short-mid passing game as well as the running game.  That doesn't mean that's all he can do, but that is likely why he was signed.

[TSO]

Richardson is going to be a fascinating study for me, even within TC and preseason. 

 

Watching a lot of his work with the Seahawks last season, it’s crazy just how little separation he had on so many of his catches. That isn’t a knock on him, YET. Especially considering he made so many of those catches anyway. It’s damn impressive for his size. 

 

 This is why it’s so fascinating.

 

The Seahawks offense with Russell Wilson has not been one of timing or rhythm. As much as fans love to see a QB like Russell make plays, there are negative aspects to it. But without getting into what is a nuanced topic regarding QB play in the pros, one of those negatives leads into the question with Richardson. 

 

Was his route running and ability to separate mainly wasted in that offense? Are we going to see him suddenly shine  in that department with a coach who runs an offense that’s all about that? How much of his speed wasn’t capitalized on within the Seahawks offense; is he that burner his combine 40 suggests or is that just who he is on the football field? 

 

What’s exciting is we’ve seen him show the ability to make catches in traffic. That is already something Djax wasn’t exactly good at. He’ll catch balls in the middle of the field. If he can be anything like the deep burner Djax was and if he can show that his route running skills are as precise as our offense requires, we might actually have a guy who ends up being a steal in Free Agency, which is a tough task considering his contract. 

 

Those are significant ifs, of course, and it’s a rarity to see such things pan out so wonderfully in FA... but that’s what makes this case so fascinating because I think there’s a pretty decent shot for the above to happen here. 

 

I also think the answers have a good chance of presenting themselves quickly. One has to always be careful to judge FA acquisitions too quickly as they can take time to adjust, but if Richardson’s abilities were under-utilized within the Seahawks offense we’ll see the difference in terms of separation almost immediately. I know Gruden’s offense emphasizes precision route running to an extreme, so it still might take Richardson time to get it... but he’s going to get the ball thrown at him with more rhythm and timing than he’s ever seen. 

[arftech]

never mind...

 

[Stefanskins]

10 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

Richardson is going to be a fascinating study for me, even within TC and preseason. 

 

Watching a lot of his work with the Seahawks last season, it’s crazy just how little separation he had on so many of his catches. That isn’t a knock on him, YET. Especially considering he made so many of those catches anyway. It’s damn impressive for his size. 

 

 This is why it’s so fascinating.

 

The Seahawks offense with Russell Wilson has not been one of timing or rhythm. As much as fans love to see a QB like Russell make plays, there are negative aspects to it. But without getting into what is a nuanced topic regarding QB play in the pros, one of those negatives leads into the question with Richardson. 

 

Was his route running and ability to separate mainly wasted in that offense? Are we going to see him suddenly shine  in that department with a coach who runs an offense that’s all about that? How much of his speed wasn’t capitalized on within the Seahawks offense; is he that burner his combine 40 suggests or is that just who he is on the football field? 

 

What’s exciting is we’ve seen him show the ability to make catches in traffic. That is already something Djax wasn’t exactly good at. He’ll catch balls in the middle of the field. If he can be anything like the deep burner Djax was and if he can show that his route running skills are as precise as our offense requires, we might actually have a guy who ends up being a steal in Free Agency, which is a tough task considering his contract. 

 

Those are significant ifs, of course, and it’s a rarity to see such things pan out so wonderfully in FA... but that’s what makes this case so fascinating because I think there’s a pretty decent shot for the above to happen here. 

 

I also think the answers have a good chance of presenting themselves quickly. One has to always be careful to judge FA acquisitions too quickly as they can take time to adjust, but if Richardson’s abilities were under-utilized within the Seahawks offense we’ll see the difference in terms of separation almost immediately. I know Gruden’s offense emphasizes precision route running to an extreme, so it still might take Richardson time to get it... but he’s going to get the ball thrown at him with more rhythm and timing than he’s ever seen. 

so maybe he is more like a Garcon/Djax hybrid...not quite Desean speed but more than Garcon...not quite Garcons hands but better than Jackson's over the middle...

[TSO]

16 hours ago, Stefanskins said:

so maybe he is more like a Garcon/Djax hybrid...not quite Desean speed but more than Garcon...not quite Garcons hands but better than Jackson's over the middle...

 

That would be nice. I’m all for it, lol. 

 

Garçon has that size though. Just a big, strong body who can absorb impact extremely well. I’d prefer Richardson to not have to be that kind of guy, and I don’t think he has to in this offense. 

 

As for the speed question, I think that’s going to show up real fast and we’ll know right away. Gruden will scheme him open deep (even if he isn’t the priority initially, that can change as they line up dependent on the defense) and Alex should be able to spot it and time it right more often than it occurred with the Seahawks. Even the other speedster they’ve got in Tyler Lockett, it can be argued that his skill set is under-utilized there. 

 

But Djax was special in terms of his ability to track the ball and adjust his speed while maintaining his balance in ways few can. It’s damn near impossible to defend when he’s running fast, then kicks it into another gear to get under a ball, only to slow down again at the last second to deceive the DB. Or various combinations of that. It’s special. 

 

Richardson, on the other hand, was more of a guy who high points and can really twist his body to adjust to the ball, which means he plays much bigger than his size. I’m not sure I saw him use different levels of speed to deceive like Djax, but again, could be a function of the offense he was in. I think we’ll find out pretty fast. 

 

Lot there to be fascinated with, honestly. Can’t wait.