bayougator Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Maptastic, I feel you. I lov e the little dump offs. And I am the loudest on Sunday yelling, "Get rid of the damn ball, Pat!!!" But he is going to do what his coach tells him. We were always known in sports as the "Yes, Sir" guys. If coach told us to jump we did. That's how our dad raised us. That's why you haven't seen me post about Coach much. If people ask me what Pat thinks about him, I just say it's his coach. Until lately when I realized your parents aren't always right. I guess watching my little brother get killed didn't help much either. Nomatter what decision the coach makes, Pat will support it. It will kill him and will eat him up inside, but he'll do it. I don't know this injury and not playing might be the same way!?!?!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Brown #43 Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Bayougator, you are so right about the play calls being different for Hasselbeck. TH is doing a really nice job, but it drives me nuts when I hear people on the radio saying "Hasselbeck has really learned this offense in a hurry." In reality, Spurrier seems to be running more of a West Coast offense--the antithesis of the Fun 'n Gun--with Hasselbeck in there. Which is fine, but let's not confuse what Hasselbeck is doing with "Spurrier's offense." Anyway, all the best to Patrick...he is the man. Can't wait to watch him develop as our QB of the future...with Hasselbeck as a nice backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesome Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Bayou, Boy would I love to pick your brain, ideally over a nice cold brew-dog, but I understand and completely admire your need to keep hush hush. As for the injury, how do you feel about it? Would you rather see Patrick in there not 100 percent, gaining experience, but also putting himself at risk for further injury? Or would you prefer to see him get surgery and rest up for next year? We all know Patrick's a gamer and will never take himself out of a game unless he absolutely has to. But, I would rather not see him be put at risk anymore this season and start healing up for next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayougator Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 As much as I hate to see him get hit, if his foot can't get worse, I want to see him play. For experience, fun, leadership, and to see how coach would handle it. Right now it is a doc that is holding things up. Pat wants to play!!!! I asked pat how he felt about all this the other day and he said he hates it. He said it feels like he's quiting. I told him he's got to think on a career basis. Not a getting drafted or getting the starting job mindset. I told him to trust the doctors. They know more than he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted December 8, 2003 Author Share Posted December 8, 2003 Bayougator, thanks for your posts here, and thanks for your participation in ExtremeSkins. It's a rare privilege to get the perspective of the brother of our QB, and I've enjoyed all your posts here. If it's not fully clear here, I'm actually a big Patrick Ramsey supporter. He's got great character, great courage and has one of the best arms in the NFL. Much more than Hasselbeck, he clearly has the potential to be a dominant QB, even an NFL MVP. However, I'm also an objective fan, and I try not to be blinded by draft status and sexy attributes like a strong arm. What we want, obviously, is the most effective QB -- the guy most consistently able to lead drives and lead the team to victory. Patrick is fully capable of being that guy. But he has much to learn from what a guy like Hasselbeck can do -- reading the rush, shifting in the pocket to avoid pressure, identifying the best open receiver (even if it's a 5-yard pass), getting the ball off on time, and throwing a catchable pass. Tim Hasselbeck does all these things well -- but Tim Hasselbeck can never achieve the kind of dominance that Patrick could, if Patrick puts it all together. In the best of all worlds, Tim Hasselbeck shows Patrick Ramsey how to be a better QB, by adding elements to his game that are currently missing. That's my best, first hope. I like both guys a lot -- and it's been a long time since I could say that about two Redskin QBs. So even though we're 5-8, I'm optimistic that we've got the right guys to lead us to the future. Let's hope we can keep both on the team, and each guy makes each other even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayougator Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Don't get ME wrong. I could care less what anyone says about Pat and who should be the starting QB, or for that case anything about the team. It just comes with being a player and a brother of a star QB for so long. When I post on here it's as a fan (with special benifits) you could say. All the posts I put on here mean as much as yours do. I am just adding my 2 cents. I just happen to have a little more info about what is going on within the team than yall do. I know everyone on here wants to see Pat do well, because it means the skins are doing well. I do not get angry and throw things if I read something less than perfect written about Pat. (Well not too often!) As I've said on here before. I'm a much bigger critic of Pat's play than you guys are. Believe me, he has ducked some of my calls after a game. That's when I call his wife. LOL Yall can say anything you want, and have. It's nothing I haven't seen before. I will try to answer any questions if I can. Bayougator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 I will try to answer any questions if I can. If a train leaves DC at 1 PM on Sunday traveling 89 miles an hour non stop to Chicago, and facing a head wind of 4mph, and a lady passenger in a sexy red dress drops an apple, what will the time be in Paris Tx? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 I think most of us fans who have watched Redskin football their whole lives realize when the offense, or defense if you like, is changed to fit the personnel. It is certainly obvious that Spurrier has reigned in the offense in order to better suit Hasselbeck's style. Tim has been indoctrinated in the WCO.... so shorter routes combined with shorter drops and more safety valves fits Tim's style. He's comfortable and moving the football because it's all he knows. What would I like to see from this offense? I'd like J. Patrick back there standing like a statue and throwing darts all over the field amassing inordinate amounts of touchdowns and yardage. What we've got is a gelling offensive line that has only recently started to prove it can keep the pocket relatively sound in order to keep the QB upright and breathing without a respirator. I expect next year that the OL confusion will be solved, the receivers to better understand where to be per pre-snap reads, and Ramsey to be hitting receivers in stride all over the field... intermediate and deep.... as if he had stolen the defensive signals. The purpose of my post was to clear the cloud surrounding J. Patrick. That we're all looking at Tim's relative success and wondering why J. Patrick, and the OL and receivers, can't do this when they're on the field at the same time. The explanation is that the offense isn't the same when Tim is commanding the huddle, and Spurrier is playing to Tim's strengths (short timed WCO routes) as opposed to J. Patrick's (deeper, high risk - high reward routes). Finally, and most importantly, Ramsey is starting essentially his first full year in the NFL.... has much more feel to learn via experience, than does Hasselbeck who has bounced around from team to team gaining experience... albeit marginal experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayougator Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Bubba Only someone from Roanoke could come up with something like that. By the way the answer is 10:33 am. I've been to Paris. They're like us here in Ruston - A little behind! CSkin Where have you been. That's a pretty damn good post. If you want to hear something real selfish and crazy, but realistic. I am for playing the one that is winning. Even if it is because the coach changes the stratagies. This proves it takes more than tallent to win. Players have to be put in the situation condusive to winning. I all for TH starting if he's getting the job done. I don't even play favorites for my own brother. That means my brother is not back there getting killed (his fault or not) and he's still getting paid. I know I'll get raked over the coals for that last statement. That is my view. i love watching Pat play more than anything, but my first loyalty is to Pat and his wife. And no Pat doesn't think this way!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 That's a good point. If playing Hasslebeck can help Spurrier learn what works in the NFL, like, oh I don't know, RUNNING THE DAMN BALL, then I am all for that. I would just hope that once Ramsey is back under center that Spurrier could incorporate what had been working for Tim into the game plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 bayou, I've got a lot of respect for you if you put the team first over your brother. My younger brother played for the Dodgers and White Sox for 7 years and I NEVER put the team first. LOL. I know it's a smaller version of how you feel. (my experiece can't compare to yours because while my brother was a high draft pick with a huge signing bonus, he didn't make it to the majors because he couldn't take the life in the minor leagues away from family.) But I understand having to listen to the criticism. It's one thing if YOU criticize your brother, but having someone else do it is fighting words. None of us know what is really going on behind closed doors, we don't know if Spurrier is telling Pat to hold on to the ball longer or NOT to, we don't honestly know if Tim gets rid of the ball despite Spurrier or because of him. It's a tough situation. The vast majority of us here are Ramsey fans and we want nothing more than for him to be the starting qb for a long long time. He just needs to get healthy and stop taking all those hits. At this time in the season, the thing that counts is getting ready for next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symbol Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 How's this sound for a comparison. When Ramsey is feeling up to starting again. Let Spurrier go with the same type of offense where we run the ball 40 + times and control the clock. Have Ramsey only throwing the ball 20 times and see if Ramsey isn't off of his back and getting the job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayougator Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Code, When was your bro drafted. I was in the same situation along with pitcherjlt. But injuries took both of us out of commision. If not we would most likely be bopping around the minor or independent leagues as we speak. That took guts for him to make that decision. I love to watch Pat play. My friends say I get more worked up over a game than he does. I can't eat on Sunday until after the game. And That even depends on the outcome. Although, if he's not getting the job done get someone in there that can, for what ever reason. There is no reason for any individual to take the beating that a pro QB does just because he might get the job done. You wouldn't do that with any of your jobs. Give a huge project to a person that might do it. Hell no!! You give it to the person that has the ability and skills to do it. Don't get me wrong. I'm 2000% agoinst a QB carosell(sp). That is why you have preseason. But if a player slides for four - five games, and the backup can do a better job. Go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Originally posted by bayougator Bubba Only someone from Roanoke could come up with something like that. :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayougator Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Symbol, I'll call coach and tell him that! Coach: "Well Bayou we've got to throw the ball when we get a chance. Then run the ball when we can. Got to get down that field. I guess hindsight is 20/400 or something like that. You know Jay has that big old arm, and LC can run like a scalded cat, so we need to see if we can get them to hook up a few more time. I think that will be our plan. Jay's a big boy. He can take some hits and keep on tickin" BG: "Coach that's Patrick." Coach: "What? Oh yeah, He can throw the ball pretty far to." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 please tell Patrick, heal up "real good" and we will be thinking of him tossing that ball real far to LC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Originally posted by bayougator Code, When was your bro drafted. I was in the same situation along with pitcherjlt. But injuries took both of us out of commision. If not we would most likely be bopping around the minor or independent leagues as we speak. That took guts for him to make that decision. I love to watch Pat play. My friends say I get more worked up over a game than he does. I can't eat on Sunday until after the game. And That even depends on the outcome. Although, if he's not getting the job done get someone in there that can, for what ever reason. There is no reason for any individual to take the beating that a pro QB does just because he might get the job done. You wouldn't do that with any of your jobs. Give a huge project to a person that might do it. Hell no!! You give it to the person that has the ability and skills to do it. Don't get me wrong. I'm 2000% agoinst a QB carosell(sp). That is why you have preseason. But if a player slides for four - five games, and the backup can do a better job. Go for it. My bro was drafted out of High School in 94 and left for Montana the day after he graduated. He was only 17. I ended up living with him for 2 and a half summers in Montana and in Savannah Georgia and I know what you mean about the nervousness and so on. I played baseball in college, but watching my brother was way tougher than anything I went through. He was a LHP throwing 94-96 and there were tons of expectations placed upon him and he would just get really really home sick. That's when I started staying with him. Things were fine for the summers I was with him, but then we both got married in 97 and he and his new wife had a child. That was the hardest part for him, he couldn't leave his son and miss seeing him grow up. He walked away, he still has scouts calling every now and then asking if he wants back. But I can totally relate to what you go through. It sucks, because all you can do is watch, be supportive and pray hard as hell. There are so many political BS things that go on, mental distractions and unexpected turns that come up without notice. Regardless, my advice to you is just that the vast majority of guys here and Skins fans in general are CLEARLY fans and supporters of Patrick. Don't let a few misguided people stir the pot and cause any bad feelings. QB controversy and Redskins are almost the same word. That's what amazes me is that Patrick has received almost unconditional support from the same fans that have turned on so many other past QB's. I think that says alot about the character of your brother. It's hard not to like him. PS... What positon did you play in baseball? Iwas a RHP. I also had the injury thing ruin my chances, I blew out my knee in a game and after rehab, did it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayougator Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 I played 3rd and RHP. Have had thre sugeries on my right knee. Hook slide into third was the last straw. Thanks for the insight Code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. D Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 back to the Playcalling change; it has already been discussed by OBC (with Sonny I think) that Th is NOT asked to do what Patrick did; which is sit there and attempt to audible into the "perfect" play. secondly, TH comes from a WCO (west coast offense) and he has been trained to throw the short ball emphasising the Run-after-catch. Third, Patrick has been coached to read deep first and hold himself in the pocket as long as possible (for the routes to work open). I have no doubt that given the same situation as TH Patrick would also thrive. I do not think that TH is suited for what they were asking Pat to do hence they are not even attempting to try, ergo the total change in playcalling. I agree that the end result is desireable because it gets to OBC some edumacation with regards to the NFL. I am a little angry at having Pat's body sacrificed in the process. in the end its apples and oranges....and the Ole ball coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofer Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Originally posted by The Slammer Surely, ASF, you noticed the gameplanning today. 48 runs? 19 passes? I think Spurrier was calling the game to Hasselbeck's ability. You must admit Hasselbeck looked pretty damn ineffective against the Saints - a game Spurrier called a little bit more to form. Hasselbeck may be a decent QB, but Ramsey is far, far better for the offense that we brought Spurrier in to run. Today looked like Martyball, and I think it's because Spurrier knew his QB's limitations. Was he calling the game to Hasselbeck's ability or to the weather conditions - very cold and very windy? Ramsey has the potential to be a great QB. Hasselbeck (no disrespect intended) is a great backup QB. I admire Hasselbeck's performances in the three games in which he started or had major playing time. He did a great job with little experience and time on the team. He did what backups are supposed to do - not lose the game and give the team a chance to win. Since the Defense surrendered 4th quarter leads 3 weeks in a row...(no need to finish the thought, you all know how it ends). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 *cough* *bump* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sashae Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 So much for THAT argument eh? 0.0 :doh: -s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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