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Miami Herald: I’m done trying to understand Trump supporters. Why don’t they try to understand me?

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On 5/5/2018 at 2:26 PM, Destino said:

Making political discussions about the people making the arguments, instead of the arguments themselves or the issue at hand, does not help.  I don't need to understand Trump voters and I'm not interested in explaining myself to them.  I'd rather we identify problems and discuss how we would go about solving them.  That might get us somewhere.  


Pragmatism is boring though and it doesn't scare, excuse me I mean "motivate", voters.  So what we get instead is a battle between white supremacists and godless communists.  Oh no, how will we ever understand those people?  We won't.  We're not meant to.  Our role in this depressing game is to oppose the great evil threatening us and not concern ourselves with the details.   


This situation made Trump possible.  He exploited it like no one before him, without an ounce of shame or concern for possible consequence.  


On 5/5/2018 at 3:51 PM, visionary said:


was bored. Went to the start of the thread. 

Two posts I found that aged well. 

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Meh I've always disliked Giuliani. He cleaned up NYC and made Times Square all family friendly disney kinda bull****. I miss the seedy sketchy NYC. Vegas too. 🤣


He and Bratton with theys stop and frisk broken windows theory can **** right on off. Pfft graffiti was part of the problem back then they said. Now everyone pays for fancy murals spray painted on theys buildings. Lame.

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Inside Mike Lindell's scheme to build an election fraud detector straight out of sci-fi


At his 2023 “Election Summit,” Mike Lindell, the exuberant pillow peddler turned election truther, was more manic than usual.


Lindell had assembled the most fervent election deniers from every state, mostly Trump cultists, at a conference center in Springfield, Mo., where, with great fanfare, he promised to unveil “The Plan” to prevent elections from being stolen.


Lindell proceeded to unveil a series of electronic tools that he said would push the country to adopt a voting system that more closely resembled something out of the 19th century than the 21st: hand-marked paper ballots, in-person voting only on Election Day, all votes tallied by hand.


Lindell’s vision means ditching every computer used in conducting an election, which, literally, would revert to the late 1800s before voting machines were invented to try to prevent rigged results achieved by stuffing ballot boxes with phony paper ballots.


“I’m getting rid of these electronic voting machines to save our country,” Lindell told me in a follow-up interview. “I know exactly what I’m doing ... I’m making our sales pitch easy.”


‘The plan’


“What if I told you that there was a device that had been made for the first time in history that can tell you that the machine was online?” Lindell said. “And then you could tell what the device was, where it was at, what the name of it was – ES&S 60503 – and you knew the second it went online. Well, this is what we’ve been working on for over a year. And I’m going to show you.”


He played a short video with a British-accented narrator who described what he called the “Wireless Monitoring Device.”


As the narrator told it, this WMD — not to be confused with the common acronym for “weapon of mass destruction” — was more than a box listing WiFi signals like one’s phone. It would find and identify “access points,” “routers”, “printers,” “computers,” “phones” and other devices using WiFi. It would identify their makes, models and serial numbers. It would detect online commands that engaged polling station electronics.


It would not, however, interfere with data transmission. Rather, it would send, in less than a minute, all of the detected information to a nationwide hub – dubbed the “Election Crime Bureau.” This Election Crime Bureau, in turn, would send alerts and texts via an app to activists living near the surveilled sites.


Lindell would not reveal where the Election Crime Bureau was located nor who would be staffing it.


The app would also address another GOP obsession. Its “Identifying and Reporting Voter Discrepancies” feature would track suspected illegal voters, he said. (Lindell later told me it would use the most current voter roll data from states and send out an alert when it detected that that six or more people with same address on their voter registration file had voted.) This feature would allow activists to investigate, he told the hall, presumably by knocking on their doors and reporting their findings to authorities.

The WMD device and voter-fraud detection app would create a true picture of why elections in America were untrustworthy, because it relied on data from the only messengers that those in Trump circles should trust – patriots like himself, Lindell said. It would enable anyone in the country using his app to see what was really happening.


“You’ll be able to find out what’s going on in other places, immediately, in real time,” he said. “You’ll be able to report that, and send it out on all your social media and everything… The way we get around the media, and the way we communicate, [is] the communication hub.”


Click on the link for more of the nonsense

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US Supreme Court rebuffs lawyers punished after 'woeful' suit backing Trump


The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday declined to hear an appeal by two lawyers contesting a $187,000 financial sanction imposed on them by a judge who found they made recklessness and frivolous claims in litigation they brought seeking to overturn former President Donald Trump's 2020 election loss as fraudulent.


The justices turned away the appeal by Ernest Walker and Gary Fielder, who had filed a lawsuit in Colorado accusing voting equipment company Dominion Voting Systems, Meta's Facebook and the Center for Tech and Civic Life nonprofit organization of working to steal the election from Trump. The judge who dismissed the suit ordered Walker and Fielder to pay the legal fees of the parties they sued.


The justices announced their action on the first day of their new nine-month term.


Trump's campaign and allies filed a raft of failed lawsuits in numerous states seeking to undo the Republican businessman-turned-politician's loss to Democrat Joe Biden. The suits were based on Trump's false claims that the election was stolen from him through widespread voting fraud. Walker and Fielder in their lawsuit represented eight voters from five states.

U.S. Magistrate Judge N. Reid Neureiter in August 2021 imposed the sanctions on Walker and Fielder over the suit that was filed in federal court in December 2020, the month after the election.


"This lawsuit was filed with a woeful lack of investigation into the law and, under the circumstances, the facts," Neureiter wrote. "The lawsuit put into or repeated into the public record highly inflammatory and damaging allegations that could have put individuals' safety in danger. Doing so without a valid legal basis or serious independent personal investigation into the facts was the height of recklessness."


The lawsuit, the judge concluded, was "one enormous conspiracy theory" and arguments made by the lawyers "crossed the border into the frivolous."


The Denver-based 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals last year affirmed the sanction based on the "inherent power" of judges and also a federal law that states that a lawyer can be held liable for costs for "unreasonably and vexatiously" extending a court case.


The 10th Circuit in its ruling said "an attorney is expected to exercise judgment, and must 'regularly re-evaluate the merits' of claims and 'avoid prolonging meritless claims.'"


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Anti-Trump Republican Group Shows How to Damage Trump


Not every Republican loves Donald Trump. Some of them, especially well-heeled donors, actively hate him (because they are still grieving for St. Ronald of Reagan). Some of the big donors are even trying to do something to get rid of Trump. A PAC associated with the Club for Growth, Win It Back, has been working on developing ads to see what works best against Trump. Their modus operandi was to produce ads (of which they have made 40 and counting), then show them to 12 focus groups of Trump voters. Next, the winners were field tested in selected cities in Iowa and South Carolina by running the ads on Fox News and other conservative media. They ran polls before and after the ads, both in cities where the ads ran and cities where they didn't (the control group) to see what effect they had on a larger audience. Win It Back is a pretty serious operation that has spent $6 million so far.


David McIntosh, the president of the Club for Growth, wrote a memo to his donors reporting on the findings so far. As with so much "secret" stuff, the memo leaked out. A reporter for The New York Times, Jonathan Swan (formerly with Axios) snagged a copy and wrote a story about it. That's how it goes.


The main finding is that ads that attempt to take Trump down on the issues all fail. They made ads in which Trump said something and then directly after that clip show Joe Biden saying exactly the same thing, with the implication (sometimes made explicit), that Trump is a far-left liberal, just like Biden. Many ways of trying to undermine Trump's "conservative" credentials all failed. The people in the focus groups just ignored what they saw and said "Oh, it's just Trump. He's like that." None of the policy ads moved the needle at all. His supporters simply don't care what he says or what policies he is for. What they love is his xenophobia, bigotry, and ability to make liberals' blood boil. They don't care about specific policies on anything.


Examples of failed ads focus on the pandemic, vaccines, praise of Anthony Fauci, abortion, his failed wall project, wokeness, and gun control. Trump just rambles all the time, so there is plenty of video of him saying things that conservatives hate, often followed by the exact opposite. So it is not hard to put together a carefully curated video of him saying things that would make Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) give him a big hug. But none of them make Trump's supporters have any doubts about him. And remember, the people running the project are Trump-hating pros who know what they are doing, use a solid methodology, and have all the money they need. None of the policy ads worked.


What is also interesting is that many of the ads Gov. Ron DeSantis (R-FL) has been airing hit the same themes that McIntosh's failed ads do. DeSantis is discovering the hard way that talking about "woke" is useless. Win It Back discovered the same thing using carefully designed controlled experiments in which some people saw the ads, some people didn't, and the before and after polls in both groups were compared. Is it surprising that DeSantis is flailing? What is interesting here is that the big-money people on the right very much believe in the scientific method and know exactly how to run proper experiments. Marketing departments in big companies do this kind of thing all the time.


The ads that worked best were ads going after Trump's character, Trump fatigue, and his harping on 2020, rather than policy ads. His Achilles heel is his personality, style, and character, not his policy positions.


Click on the link for the full article

Edited by China
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18 hours ago, China said:

The ads that worked best were ads going after Trump's character, Trump fatigue, and his harping on 2020, rather than policy ads. His Achilles heel is his personality, style, and character, not his policy positions.


The conclusion here is wrong.  MAGA people don't support Trump in spite of his "far left" policies (also, what??).  And they don't give a damn one way or the other about his personality, style or character.  MAGA people LOVE Trump because he hates the same people and forces that MAGA people hate, and Trump fights those people and forces, or at least makes a big show that he does even if it's all a lie.  So you aren't ever going to peel MAGA people away from him.  What you need to do is animate non-MAGA people who don't view Trump as their warrior, and show THOSE people that Trump is bad for them, personally (and, obviously, keep the people who already hate Trump fired up and motivated to vote against him). 

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3 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Cultists/Followers always go down with the ship. Anyone still supporting him is either too far gone, or not worth the effort to pull out of the abyss.




PLEASE tell me it ends with mass MAGA suicides.  


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19 hours ago, Cooked Crack said:



You know, if he had just said "They're going after Bob to get him out of the way", I might've taken what he said a bit more realistically. Fox News just can't help but to always over shoot their load.

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