NYT - Redskins Cheerleaders Describe Trip to Costa Rica that Crossed the Line

[zCommander]

10 hours ago, MassSkinsFan said:

I still can't get past the allegation that their passports were taken from them. 

 

If you have been to another country where theft might be a common place then you would understand. The last thing you want is your passport stolen and not be able to get back to the US. If the cheerleaders weren't told about this procedure then that is shame on the person in charge. 

[Tsailand]

4 hours ago, Bang said:

On Sunday, they are exploited, like it or not. They make hardly any money, and they give a tits and ass show for anyone who can see them. They are required to wear items that accent their sexuality, and dance provocatively.

 

So if the team was paying them more it would be OK?

 

The team would argue that the exposure (no pun intended) of being an Official Redskins Cheerleader is a benefit that means they don't need to pay them as much.  Based on the number of women competing for the job, they're correct. 

 

No different than a job with a great benefit, like 100% WFH, can get away with paying less than an equivalent job without the benefit.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

23 minutes ago, Spearfeather said:

 

Right, because that's what Cali was saying.

 

My comment wasn’t directly meant for Cali, more the overall narrative by a few members here who never believe the smoke and seem to think the media In general has it out for the guy.

[Spearfeather]

2 hours ago, NickyJ said:

 I'd like to see Bang out on the sidelines to, wearing a speedo and pulling some sweet moves out there with some pompoms.

 

[Bang]

48 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

So if the team was paying them more it would be OK?

 

The team would argue that the exposure (no pun intended) of being an Official Redskins Cheerleader is a benefit that means they don't need to pay them as much.  Based on the number of women competing for the job, they're correct. 

 

No different than a job with a great benefit, like 100% WFH, can get away with paying less than an equivalent job without the benefit.

No, i wouldn't like it no matter what they paid them, it's not a matter of me thinking it's OK or not OK from a morality standpoint. I don't care, i have nothing against skin or dancers.. I just think it isn't needed there.  My mind would not think "well, I guess it doesn't matter that a ""Redskins Cheerleader" was so busy in her grind routine that she is grinning like an idiot and bouncing up and down while the other team scores to take the lead right in front of her..  she's getting decent money".

Stupid is stupid. Pointless is pointless.

 

I also think that 99.9999% of people who allow themselves to give their art for a lowball "for the exposure" regret it afterwards, because it never is quite enough, and never as good as actually getting paid what your art is worth. Being told "you can get the exposure" instead of money is the same as being told "i';m going to take advantage of you as much as possible"/

 

Never fall for that.

 

~Bang

 

 

 

[HardcoreZorn]

32 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

My comment wasn’t directly meant for Cali, more the overall narrative by a few members here who never believe the smoke and seem to think the media In general has it out for the guy.

Is that really any better than screaming FIRE before you actually know there is one?

[CousinsCowgirl84]

5 hours ago, Bang said:

Ah, the holier than thou approach. Always an interesting tact. Make it a massive abstract morality play and claim the high ground. You poor dear.
Yes, i long ago came to the understanding that I , and you, and everyone else watching, am cheering to watch these men destroy their bodies. And I'm OK with it. The game itself is violent, and I like the game.

 

Now, as to the rest.. last time. So pay attention.

I 

do

not

think

the

SEX

adds

ANYTHING

to

the 

VIOLENCE

that

is

THE GAME.

 

Get it?

 

 

~Bang

 

 

yessir. It’s just i thought maybe you were trying to relate to the topic at hand. No worries. Sex adds nothing to the game, got it.

 

Its not a morality play. I don’t think there is any difference between the two, and i am fine with both. One isn’t morally better than the other. I would say you are the one making the “abstract morality play”, assigning a chimeric difference between the two.

 

 

[skins island connection]

13 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

I believe you wrote this with the best intent. However, it shows a lack of understanding what exactly the emotional toll such treatment exacts on women - and men when they are exploited like this. The entire "why did it take 5 yrs." thing just does not take into account how much women are made to feel that either it's their fault, it's the job and they could lose it, fear of retribution, and honestly there is also a humiliation quotient. 

 

Now, could they just be making all this up to get some attention and maybe a big payday. Of course that's possible. However, as it turns out most of the time these things when investigated turn out to be pretty close to the allegations. Time to report is maybe the worst indicator of accuracy. 

 

I hope the team does the right thing and has an outside source complete a full investigation. If that comes up empty then so be it. The women were just making stuff up and quite frankly should be prosecuted themselves. However, any and all wrong doing should also carry consequences. Charges if possible but at least anyone still with the team that's involved should be removed. 

 

Let's hope Dan does the right thing here. 

 

 Please, don't get me wrong; if this turns out to be true, I will personally buy the gasoline to burn the ****s.

I know it is impossible for men to put themselves into the cheerleaders' shoes, because men are simply wired differently. Some may claim that they know, but they just don't. 

 

The part in bold is what strikes me. You are indirectly making a statement that the cheerleader are telling the truth without absolute facts in hand. Yes, it is difficult to not automatically side with the women under circumstances like this because it is a very serious matter and the emotional toll it takes on them. 

 

But, one has to stop, wait for whatever proof or evidence, before slapping a guilty verdict on the perpetrators.

There are cases of sexual harassment coming out of the woodwork. But, think about this for a moment; for every case where there is a possibility or some form of evidence, there are at least as many if not two-fold, of women making false accusations which is quickly proven to be a lie; but these stories aren't plastered all over the internet, they don't make the news, because its a non-story, unless it involves a high profile or wealthy person.

 

Today's society is torch-and-pitchfork ready, especially when it involves people of wealth or fame. It's a self-induced inferiority complex formed because of an underlying jealousy or desire to be in the shoes of said famous person. Its a natural reaction for many, and it's not a totally bad thing, it's ego-driven in ways, a driving force of sorts for a person's drive to become { more } successful. We do it all the time cheering for other teams to beat the living crap out of another team.

 

But back on topic, no. If it turns out to be true, then I absolutely hope the accused get what they deserve, and more.

But I cannot allow myself to blindly follow an accusation by someone unless any form of proof or evidence comes into play. For me, personally, the thing that keeps me on the fence is the timing of this; the #METOO movement is great, and it has shed light on a dark subject, exposing those who have wronged women, but there are times where a woman or women will alter or change their minds to fit their narrative or to get back at someone, and the movement gives them credibility, but unfortunately there are innocent people who end up caught in the wave, and their lives are totally ruined.  I just don't want to see someone suffer needlessly because of an inaccurate accusation.

[Cypress]

This is disgusting and heads should roll because of it.

[Rocky52Mc]

3 hours ago, zskins said:

 

If you have been to another country where theft might be a common place then you would understand. The last thing you want is your passport stolen and not be able to get back to the US. If the cheerleaders weren't told about this procedure then that is shame on the person in charge. 

 

Been to many other countries, never once did I need my passport to not be in my control (whether that's on my person or locked away).

[daveakl]

7 hours ago, Rocky52Mc said:

 

Been to many other countries, never once did I need my passport to not be in my control (whether that's on my person or locked away).

On many entertainment type trips where you have one or two people in charge of all the bookings (hotel, transportation, etc) they may have 1 central person hold all the relevant documents so when they get to the airport, hotel, train, etc. they dont have 40 people trying to locate their information (which 1 or 2 people will not be able to locate and slow everyone down). Usually it's in situations where you are traveling as a large group and most of your party aren't world travelers. 

 

The passport thing seems more like a headline grab then anything else.

[Koolblue13]

9 minutes ago, daveakl said:

On many entertainment type trips where you have one or two people in charge of all the bookings (hotel, transportation, etc) they may have 1 central person hold all the relevant documents so when they get to the airport, hotel, train, etc. they dont have 40 people trying to locate their information (which 1 or 2 people will not be able to locate and slow everyone down). Usually it's in situations where you are traveling as a large group and most of your party aren't world travelers. 

 

The passport thing seems more like a headline grab then anything else.

I haven't really followed this, but I've seen posters say the passports were "taken" and the were held "against their will". Is that true? Like, were they told they couldn't come back to America without doing shady things? 

 

If not, then yeah, it's a headline grab. 

[goskins10]

1 minute ago, daveakl said:

On many entertainment type trips where you have one or two people in charge of all the bookings (hotel, transportation, etc) they may have 1 central person hold all the relevant documents so when they get to the airport, hotel, train, etc. they dont have 40 people trying to locate their information (which 1 or 2 people will not be able to locate and slow everyone down). Usually it's in situations where you are traveling as a large group and most of your party aren't world travelers. 

 

The passport thing seems more like a headline grab then anything else.

 

It's all about context. Where the passports gathered for the purpose you said but at any time they could get them back? Or were they used as a way to intimidate? None of know this. 

 

The women speaking out clearly felt like the passports were being used to intimidate. That is not headline grabbing. It's reporting what they said and how they felt. For them perception is 100% of reality. So regardless of if the intent was there the women speaking out certainly felt that way. They need to find out why. Maybe they just misunderstood. Certainly possible. Until they do a full investigation we will not know. But to just blow it off as headline grabbing is to dismiss their feelings and perception, if not the actual facts.  Which is by the way the reason why many of these things never get reported. They know most people will rationalize it all away, even to the point of blaming them. So why bother. 

 

I have traveled to over 50 countries all over the world including many 3rd world countries. I can promise you no one is taking my passport. But I have enough experience and leverage in my company to make that stand. These were mostly under 25 y/o women, many of which may have never been out of the country. Is it really that far fetched to believe they were at the very least taken advantage of? 

 

The willingness of so many to immediately try to discredit these young ladies and/or trivialize things is truly mind boggling. 

 

This is an interview with Jerry Brewer of the Washington Post with the Sport Junkies (106.7) for those not in the area. The topic is not if the allegations are true or not it's about the teams handling of it. The immediate "Nothing to see here folks, move along" - my words - initial approach and only when there was significant public pressure did they release a statement that they would investigate and hold anyone accountable that did something wrong. Why not do that from the beginning? 

 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Hopefully this story isn't losing steam in the national spotlight and the NFL calls Dan and company to the mat.  

[OVCChairman]

39 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Hopefully this story isn't losing steam in the national spotlight and the NFL calls Dan and company to the mat.  

 

The way I read the original article, the whole things started from grievances that 2 other cheerleaders from 2 other teams had filed and it would almost appear the Redskins cheerleaders were asked if they had ever experienced anything similar and they confirmed.  I would imagine that the teams that get taken to the mat are the teams cited with actual filed complaints, and not us.  

[SWFLSkins]

14 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

My comment wasn’t directly meant for Cali, more the overall narrative by a few members here who never believe the smoke and seem to think the media In general has it out for the guy.

 

I do personally feel the media has it out for the guy, but many times for good reason. Snyder's ineptitude of running the organization properly is always apparent. Just when you think He is getting it, the teams nullifies that with some left field story. Right or wrong in the media is a joke. One outlet gets a story and they all run with it, perception is reality. There are always different angles to every story. The other cheerleaders discounting the accusations is just one. It doesn't negate the need to investigate and determine what or with who this occurred knowing about it. 

 

As a business you have to jump on these stories ASAP. Nip it in the bud. Get out on top. Do the right thing, right away. For a media based guy, Snyder rarely displays any sense in that arena. I listened to the Jerry Brewer interview and read his article, what was most concerning is He is drawing the same conclusion that I have had and He is actually inside the organization with an outsiders view. 

 

In summary, I am a fan of this team, Not a fan of this organization. 

 

 

 

 

30 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

The way I read the original article, the whole things started from grievances that 2 other cheerleaders from 2 other teams had filed and it would almost appear the Redskins cheerleaders were asked if they had ever experienced anything similar and they confirmed.  I would imagine that the teams that get taken to the mat are the teams cited with actual filed complaints, and not us.  

 

And this would fit the narrative that the media does in fact single Dan out, not that that relieves any responsibility. 

[OVCChairman]

27 minutes ago, SWFLSkins said:

And this would fit the narrative that the media does in fact single Dan out, not that that relieves any responsibility. 

 

 

It doesn't, but it also lightens the exposure in the eye of the league.  There have been some sports writers that I've heard that have essentially come out and said this article COULD have been written about pretty much any team in the league, and that we're an easy target because of how bad our franchise has handled itself in the past.  It's a rolling spectrum based on individual opinion of where the line in the sand is drawn.  You could poll 100 people randomly and the exact point of 'too far' would be all over the map, so as long as there is going to be ebs and flows in the eyes of public opinion there will be differing opinions of wrong doing.... but as it comes to the NFL, they're likely to not pursue anything until an actual claim is filed, if nothing else because opening a full blown investigation will air out A LOT more negative stuff, thus providing more evidence of wrong doing by the NFL and it's owners.  The NFL wants this to go away faster than the teams do, so to believe that they will make some sort of a swift and powerful shift is likely a pipe dream.  To have an NFL owner dismissed because of something like this would be a major black eye to NFL in the eye of the female fans, something they've been going after A LOT.  

[clskinsfan]

On 5/4/2018 at 11:07 AM, thebluefood said:

This, this, this, all of this forever. Yes, fake allegations happen but not nearly as often as sexual assault cases aren't perused by the authorities or brought to trial at all.

 

With other differences between the Duke Lacrosse incident aside (i.e. that it was the press that uncovered inconsistencies with the story - they weren't the ones that broke it) you're taking more of a gamble coming forward about this than not. That's why it can take years, decades even, for people to come forward with allegations, especially if the people involved are rich, powerful, and/or well known.

 

With a story like this - where rich, powerful, and possibly well known men (or people associated with them) are being accused of this kind of behavior - it's more than reasonable to remain anonymous. It isn't Joe Schmoes like most of us that can afford to go on trips like these and have this sort of "access." With some legwork and the right sources, they could pretty easily be identified.

 

This one's from the NYT - where they implemented even stricter policies two years ago to help prevent anonymous "hatchet jobs" from happening:

https://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/03/15/new-york-times-anoymous-sources-policy-public-editor/

 

You can post whatever you want to try to claim the NYT is infallible. But their agenda is perfectly clear to anyone willing to look at it.

 

And I was one of the guys calling for Snyders head for this just a few days ago. What is becoming clear is that most of the women who attended this event disagree with the women who claim these things happened. Now that is not to belittle how those women felt. But it appears to me, as usual, the NYT ran with a story that would help them push their narrative. I am not saying how these women felt isnt horrible. But I am saying that it wouldnt be shocking for the NYT to blow something like this completely out of proportion either.

23 hours ago, Bang said:

yay for team spirit. Go on and take a look at the 'audition'. One after another. Arms up, show those tits. Do a turn, stick your ass out. Walk on those heels.

All of them are basically the same. i do believe fans could attend to watch this.. uh.. audition.

 

Get rid of cheerleaders in the NFL. Softcore porn, nothing but. And, apparently, another way to be exploited, and to show us all how scummy the people who run these things really are.

 

~Bang

 

Yeah. Because the women look so horrifyingly unhappy in those photos. I mean it is clear as day that they hate what they are doing????

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

3 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

It's all about context. Where the passports gathered for the purpose you said but at any time they could get them back? Or were they used as a way to intimidate? None of know this.

 

 

 

Not saying this about you, just using your post as a jumping off point...but....

 

Why are any of us assuming the passports were taken to intimidate the cheerleaders? Is there another article that alludes to this being a possibility, or is it just a case of giving a minimum of information and letting readers extrapolate and fill in the blanks themselves?

 

 

[thebluefood]

Ah, right, my point was to say the NYT is infallible. Not that they have checks in place to make sure they don't make mistakes or get slapped with libel suits. No - infallibility. They are the "News Popes." That was exactly my point.

 

Looks like the Medidiots have been thrwarted once again. Guess we'll have to go back to twirling our mustaches and grinding our axes back somewhere else.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Christa‏ @dcfitchick

I really would love to spill the tea on some of the girls that went to the NYT but I don’t think it’s productive & don’t want to ruin the relationships I have with some of them I’m sorry if they felt the way they did and I’m sorry they felt the need to (1)

 

Christa‏ @dcfitchick

Anonymously exaggerate and slander the team to the NYT. It takes away from the real issues. Maybe if the NFL gave more of their budget to the cheerleaders we wouldn’t need sponsors paying for our calendar trips (2)

 

Christa‏ @dcfitchick

I think my friend and former teammate (who was also there) said it best. (3)

[SWFLSkins]

 

Once again Cali and I reading the same and posting it,,,,hahaaaa

[tshile]

Even if this story is more yellow journalism, I still think the “professional cheerleader” thing is dumb 

[SWFLSkins]

 

So many angles......

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Once again Cali and I reading the same and posting it,,,,hahaaaa

 

Me going to twitter and getting tweets to post lol...