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What to do with LG


FaithnMonk

What to do at LG?  

106 members have voted

  1. 1. What should Skins do at LG?

    • In Kouandjio we trust
      12
    • Move Ty Nsekhe
      33
    • Find Vet to compete with Kouandjio- best man wins
      29
    • Our starting LG is not currently on the roster
      32

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  • Poll closed on 05/05/2018 at 04:55 PM

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1 hour ago, LaRonDontLikeUgly said:

I just saw Josh Le "Ribeye" Ribeus at an Arbys drive-through... He shoved a handful of cheese-fries into his mouth, then SPIT them back into my mouth (baby bird-style) AND I'm pretty sure I could be the starting LG come Week 1.  

 

Thoughts?

 

My thought is that was a really weird post. 

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8 hours ago, #BgMase76# said:

That's only a fair assessment if they're healthy. Our running game didn't look bad early with the exception of the Philly game. Trent was playing on a bad knee until they shut him down. Lauvou is just trash (IMO). Every OL was in and out of the line up. 3/5 starting OL on IR. That's with Moses finishing the season on two bad ankles. 

 

 

I get it, and you're right.  But LG has been a failure since the days of Chris Chester and before.... and it hasn't been scheme or coaching, it's been a talent issue.  We have not had talent at LG and it exposes the interior of the line.  

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13 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

Yes, I'd be happy.

 

If we signed Jahri Evans, I don't need specifics on what else we need, this thread is about what to do about LG.  What, I have to say we still shoulda traded down and still got Guice, do you think I disagreed with that?  I already said we should've drafted guy the Texans drafted 6 spots back from us since we did trade down in like 2-3 other threads, I'm sorry you're not paying attention, but I'm getting tired of repeating myself.

 

If you have the audacity to say that resigning Ty was our only option in regards to a veteran backup tackle, I'll take 15 minutes to prove you wrong, otherwise, leave me alone.  

 

 

No details.  Back seat driver.  Got it

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31 minutes ago, Master Blaster said:

 

 

No details.  Back seat driver.  Got it

I gave you details and have been complaining about this plan for months now.

 

1. Sign a veteran Guard that can play LG (Jahri Evans is STILL on the market)

2. Sign a veteran Tackle INSTEAD of Ty because he keeps getting hurt (We could've picked up Cameron Fleming who started for the Pats and he's 25, instead Dallas got him for about same price as Ty)

3. Draft an olinemen after RB and NT are addressed (either FA or draft) that can play inside (we traded down to get a third round pick, I approve, I wish we had drafted the linemen 6 spots back the Texans picked instead of the guy we did)

 

I'm not sure what you're asking from me.  This thread is about LG, and I've made clear for months now that I don't agree with what we're doing.  I've given you what we shoulda done and repeating it now with the standpoint that we still have that option and ignorning it.  Now your asking what else we shoulda done, who the hell cares?! 

 

This isn't revisionist history as much as you'd like to think that's what I'm doing.  I've been saying we needed to sign a veteran player that can start at LG (as that was the biggest weakness on our line), a backup T that can better stay healthy then Ty (because now our top 3 tackles all have injury issues), and draft and interior linemen that can move around after addressing Dline and RB (either through FA or the Draft) for a while now because we need more depth there instead of asking our tackles to move inside.  Did I need to put my plan in my signature or something?  It seems like you are coming into this discussion with no idea about how I feel about it outside what you've seen in this thread.  I don't expect you go through my post count, but damn, I've been here since 2003 and you're talking to me like I'm brand new or something.

 

Edit: this thread is about what to do about LG NOW, not eat we should done.  I said we should sign Evans, so please stop asking me what I would've done differently that lead to this point, that's not what this thread is about and we ate derailing it because you won't let this go.

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Jahri Evans is 35 years old so I guess I have two questions for those pushing his name. 

 

Can we be sure he is not declining based on the Saints not bringing him back and also do we know if he actually wants to play this year or is he just dragging his feet filing his retirement papers?

 

I still believe the team thinks they may have the answer already and that Lauvou is here to make up the numbers on vet minimum so that they have someone in camp who knows the system to ease the transition for the rookies and Alex and could be a stopgap on the 53 man roster if we have injuries in camp.  Would love to know what guarantees are in his deal.

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11 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said:

Jahri Evans is 35 years old so I guess I have two questions for those pushing his name. 

 

Can we be sure he is not declining based on the Saints not bringing him back and also do we know if he actually wants to play this year or is he just dragging his feet filing his retirement papers?

 

 

Those are fair questions that was wondering myself on. 

 

From what can tell he wants to play, but I have no clear idea if he wants more then $2 million now.  He's close to done, but if his pff score is twice that of Lavaou, even if he continues to decline he will help us far more then he hurts us on a one year deal.  I need to review all the pff scores of our guards besides Scherrf, because last I saw, Evans would still most likely be the starter at LG even if he declined a little. 

 

If he falls off the map and ends up bottom of the depth chart, cut him, but get him here first and find out before someone else does, imo.  He was so good back I'm on the day that even though he's declining he's still ahead of other guards younger them him, and that skillet could rub off on our younger players.

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38 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I gave you details and have been complaining about this plan for months now.

 

1. Sign a veteran Guard that can play LG (Jahri Evans is STILL on the market)

2. Sign a veteran Tackle INSTEAD of Ty because he keeps getting hurt (We could've picked up Cameron Fleming who started for the Pats and he's 25, instead Dallas got him for about same price as Ty)

3. Draft an olinemen after RB and NT are addressed (either FA or draft) that can play inside (we traded down to get a third round pick, I approve, I wish we had drafted the linemen 6 spots back the Texans picked instead of the guy we did)

 

 

 

Asking for specific names and contracts.  Not generalized statements.

 

Sure I can MMQB this and be mad the Redskins didn't sign/trade for everyone in the Pro Bowl. 

But what you don't know is what Callahan thought of Evans and/or Fleming.  What those players are asking for in a contract, and whether or not they would even have interest in playing for the Redskins.  Without that knowledge all you do is throw random names out thinking you are smarter than the FO.

The pick by the Texans may have been an individual the Redskins were not high on, or they were so high on the T they selected that they had to draft him there.  Again, this is knowledge you are not privy too. 

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19 minutes ago, Master Blaster said:


 Again, this is knowledge you are not privy too. 

Then what's the point of even having this discussion?  I've brought up several times what Evans made in his previous contract saying we should expect something similar and made clear my alternative to Ty got almost an identical contract to what Dallas gave him.  I've now given you names and expected contracts, and your response is the Redskins probably didn't want to do that? No ****, that doesn't mean they're right.  

 

I'm not buying the whole "we don't know what they know" stance, because as fans we rarely have that information but that doesn't mean we're always wrong.

 

I'm not going to keep explaining to you what we shoulda done and what we should do now.  I've done that, and it's May, at best we're hoping for a stopgap, I wouldn't bet on June 1st cuts.  

 

Do you want me to break done the specifics of the contracts?  Offer Evans what he got last year and Fleming what we offered Ty. Can we please stop with this what if cap and focus in what to do now already?  If you want to keep going, say what you would've done about LG (if same, say that) and what we should now knowing what we know now. 

 

If you are defending Allen on his path to address LG, make that clear, because right now, it jus looks like your coming after me over a generalization of fans jus complaining all the time without knowing what they are talking about.  If that's how you feel, say that, too, don't beat around the bush.

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Clearly the team understands what we have isn't good enough, or they wouldn't have let Lauvoa walk and then brought him back.  I'd imagine this is an emphasis to upgrade in the near future... the problem is that it doesn't appear a real upgrade is available at this point.   I'd assume that nothing is going to happen before training camp breaks because there aren't any moves to be had.... once training camp breaks and teams start seeing what they've got in real time, there may be a cap casualty or roster trimming which may open up some other options.   These aren't ideal because of the fact that they're cast offs, but as a stop gap measure, or a kick the tires situation, what could it hurt?  I'm assuming LG is our primary focus in next years draft.  

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39 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

Clearly the team understands what we have isn't good enough, or they wouldn't have let Lauvoa walk and then brought him back.  I'd imagine this is an emphasis to upgrade in the near future... the problem is that it doesn't appear a real upgrade is available at this point.   I'd assume that nothing is going to happen before training camp breaks because there aren't any moves to be had.... once training camp breaks and teams start seeing what they've got in real time, there may be a cap casualty or roster trimming which may open up some other options.   These aren't ideal because of the fact that they're cast offs, but as a stop gap measure, or a kick the tires situation, what could it hurt?  I'm assuming LG is our primary focus in next years draft.  

 

Agreed 100%.  To upgrade every weakness in one offseason for a team below .500 is not realistic.  I do not think much of Lauvoa as a starting LG for 2018 (and wouldn't be surprised if he was cut by the opener), but overall, i love what the Redskins did this offseason as a whole.  Not only did they upgrade several key areas, they did it responsibly with value contracts and draft picks.  They also did it with an eye towards the future: they are in position to afford an extension for both Preston and Crowder if they wish.  Which means they could potentially be entering next offseason with only several key areas to focus on: definitely LG/C, then sprinkle in depth at TE, WR, ILB, secondary.  Maybe even draft QB of the future if there is good value.  

 

The LG conversation reminds me of the NT conversation from just a month ago: people panic because that hole is not filled today.  Great teams who are in the playoffs year in and year out are built the right way over time. If we enter the 2018 season with a Lauvao vs Arie vs Kalis vs Welsh competition, that is not the end of the world.  I agree with the move to not attempt to outbid for Norwell's services, too much $$$ on o-line which would affect Redskins ability to keep good young players in next year or two. 

 

This offseason has to be considered a success when you consider the upgrades vs. the cost, along with maintaining cap flexibility for the future.  An "all-in" approach to plug every hole (i.e. signing Norwell) in an attempt to make a run at a title in 2018 would not have gotten the Skins a title this year, and would have negatively impacted the future.  Some options I've seen discussed on here are Alex Boone, but he was cut by Minn for being out of shape, do we want an aging vet with issues staying in shape?  No thanks, I'd rather see the young guys battle it out (and as I said, Lauvao may get cut too, and his dead cap, if any, will not be significant).  As for Jahri Evans, sounds like he would like to return to G Bay, and was quoted as saying he wants to win a Super Bowl.  I'm not sure players around the league view the Redskins as being a contender for 2018.

 

https://www.twincities.com/2017/09/08/former-vikings-lb-chad-greenway-says-alex-boone-cut-due-to-being-out-of-shape/

 

https://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2018/04/04/jahri-evans-willing-play-waiting-game-packers/486106002/

 

I know I am in the minority here, and I don't care who has what title in the front office and who voted for what pick, but overall, I love the Redskins approach to building this team.  If we see the same team that was playing so well last September, but only better with the upgrades we've made, the Redskins will have the potential to beat anybody in 2018.

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15 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

 

As for Jahri Evans, sounds like he would like to return to G Bay, and was quoted as saying he wants to win a Super Bowl.  I'm not sure players around the league view the Redskins as being a contender for 2018.

 

 If we see the same team that was playing so well last September, but only better with the upgrades we've made, the Redskins will have the potential to beat anybody in 2018.

 

I get where you're coming from, but I just want to point out that these are very contradictory statements right here.  Right now it doesn't seem like we've attempted to even make contact, if he says "no", fine, but ask at least.

 

Edit:  Saying people are panicing about this issue is not fair, we knew this was a problem not just this offseason but for a while now.  For me, this is pure frustration.

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One angle to keep in mind regarding the LG position, but any position of need generally...

 

Relatively recently:

 

We needed a slot corner and wound up with Fuller, and now Holsey/Stroman.  

 

We needed olinemen and now have Scherff, Moses and Roullier.  

 

We needed dline (and NT specifically), we now have two guys - Payne/Settle - that can play nose, and drafted Allen and Ioannidas before that.  

 

We needed a qb and drafted two, then we traded for another.  

 

We needed to strengthen the middle of the D, and subsequently signed Brown and Swearinger, and drafted Nicholson and now Apke (along with the interior dline draftees). 

 

My overall point is not to praise the FO, but to point out that they have tended to recognize and address the needs, and they sometimes do it fairly aggressively.  Doesn’t always work out obviously.  

 

Long story short, it’s hard for me to ding them too much in this situation as they had numerous needs (didn’t address outside corner and speed rusher either, but addressed quite a few needs), limited resources, and limited options - in terms of cap space/draft picks and available guards in the draft/FA.  

 

Here’s hoping someone surprises in the LG battle and we can put this specific issue behind us.  If not, hopefully we can work around the weakness and upgrade next season.  

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44 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

 

I know I am in the minority here, and I don't care who has what title in the front office and who voted for what pick, but overall, I love the Redskins approach to building this team.  If we see the same team that was playing so well last September, but only better with the upgrades we've made, the Redskins will have the potential to beat anybody in 2018.

 

 

You may be in the minority, and if you are, than so am I.  I have been pleased with the approach we've been taking over and it appears the shift took place with the elevation of Doug Williams.  Now I don't know the ins and outs of it, but it seems like the mentality around Ashurn changed with him, and I've liked the apparent direction.  There is still work to be done, and no I don't think we're some sort of gleaming picture of what a front office should be, but it looks like we've made a legitimate plan, we're following that plan, and we're doing it responsibly.  I'm not ready to completely give the front office the benefit of the doubt, and I do think we could have addressed the LG position at some point (I REALLY wanted to make a play for Sitton) but I also want the front office to make a plan, follow that plan, and not worry about what us on the outside looking in feel about it.  

 

I'm very frustrated that we're in the position we are at LG... and a small part of me wanted us to trade up and take Hernandez early in the 2nd round.  I think had we done that, we have our O-line set for the next 3 years with youth and we can transition our replacement for Trent.  That said, had we done that, we wouldn't have taken Guice, we wouldn't have gotten the 3rd round pick, and who knows what those two choices are going to turn into.... So i'm willing to be patient.  We do need to address it, but I dont want us throwing money at someone as a result of fear.  We need the right guy.  This nonsense of "we need d-line" followed by signings of McGee and McClain has to be over.  We need to stick to the plan and build, not play madden. 

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7 minutes ago, Master Blaster said:

 

You are correct. There is no point, other than your desire to feel superior.

 

If you hate everything the Redskins do, why are you a fan?

I don't hate everything the Redskins do, stop putting words in my mouth. 

 

I don't agree with what they did here in regards to LG.  If you're going to continue this conversation in superlatives and ultimatums, then there's no point in talking to you about it (I don't think I have you figured out, but you think you have me figured out, that speaks more about you then me). 

 

It has nothing to do with who's superior, get a hold of yourself, man.  Stop acting like you know me because you clearly don't.

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1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

I don't hate everything the Redskins do, stop putting words in my mouth. 

 

I don't agree with what they did here in regards to LG.  If you're going to continue this conversation in superlatives and ultimatums, then there's no point in talking to you about it (I don't think I have you figured out, but you think you have me figured out, that speaks more about you then me). 

 

It has nothing to do with who's superior, get a hold of yourself, man.  Stop acting like you know me because you clearly don't.

 

You complain probably more than any other poster on this board. 

It's your desire to feel superior to the FO, when you admit yourself you're not privy to the information they are in regards to these players.  For all we know they called Evans agent and he said not interested.  Likewise with Fleming.

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13 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

As for Jahri Evans, sounds like he would like to return to G Bay, and was quoted as saying he wants to win a Super Bowl.  I'm not sure players around the league view the Redskins as being a contender for 2018.

 

 If we see the same team that was playing so well last September, but only better with the upgrades we've made, the Redskins will have the potential to beat anybody in 2018.

13 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I get where you're coming from, but I just want to point out that these are very contradictory statements right here. 

 

What I meant was that I don't feel many players around the league will be as optimistic as I am as far as the team the Redskins will have in 2018.  So Jahri Evans may pass on signing with the Redskins for the 2018 season due to his low expectations for the team, but he as well as others may be surprised as to how improved the Redskins are, but obviously by then will have already made his decision against playing for the Redskins.

 

I admit, I am a homer, and my optimism has let me down many times the last 30 years, but I think the Redskins will field a very competitive football team.  The reason I think they may not make the playoffs: brutal schedule and inexperience (a lot of youth, new QB to system).  But the main reason I am happy with the direction is the teams outlook for the next 5 year period, not necessarily just 2018.

 

And I hear you on the frustration with the LG position; I loved the idea of getting a Will Hernandez or Billy Price for the interior of the line.  But it didn't work out and we took the best player on the board at the time.  I know Payne pick is debatable, and trading with the Saints to move back and get a guard at end of first round would have been another route I would have supported, but they chose another path.  And that path took a porous run defense and upgraded it significantly.

 

As far as upgrading LG specifically, in recent years:

 

2013 - entered offseason as #1 rushing team, therefore upgrading o-line not a priority

2014 - signed Lauvao to a fairly generous contract (a big swing and miss, but an attempt to upgrade)

2015 - 5th overall pick on a guard, so interior o-line definitely was made a priority

 

Not much has been done regarding LG position last three offseasons, I can see your frustration, but it makes me think of a "rob Peter to pay Paul" situation.  I think they have a lot of good young talent, and if they used Richardson's money to upgrade at LG, we would be talking about how frustrating it is they ignored the WR position.  My point being: I love the methodical approach to improving this team across the board, and naturally some areas will be addressed sooner than others if you are disciplined enough to not give out bad contracts and not reach for need over BPA in the draft.  When I look at the big picture, I believe we are heading in the right direction. 

 

As I mentioned in my post above, we can afford to bring everybody back in 2019 if we choose.  Just for s&g, looking at our current roster along with 2019 mock draft on draftsite, let's say we have 20th pick and take  Ross Pierschbacher, guard from Alabama (because we have to take a Bama guy in the 1st right??) in the 1st round and options such as C - Alec Eberle, CBs such as Julian Love or Michael Jackson, etc. in the 2nd.  With the biggest hole on our roster (LG) being upgraded, wouldn't you look at the roster and say: Wow, we have a lot of young talent, depth across the board, and good balance across positional groups across the roster.  Is there a glaring hole at that point in time as big as our current one at LG?  I don't believe so, and would be thrilled about the roster overall.

 

https://www.draftsite.com/nfl/mock-draft/2019/

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Master Blaster said:

 

You complain probably more than any other poster on this board. 

It's your desire to feel superior to the FO, when you admit yourself you're not privy to the information they are in regards to these players.  For all we know they called Evans agent and he said not interested.  Likewise with Fleming.

 

I'm not trying to feel superior to anyone, you're dead ass wrong for saying that and coming at me like that because you disagree with me.  I don't complain more then anyone else on the board, that's BS.

 

It sounds like you're taking my feelings on Corner and LG this offseason and formulating your entire opinion on me about that, nothing else I've said over the last 15 years I've been here, nothing else I've done in the tailgate.  Majority of this conversation has come from me having to defend myself against you, you're the asshole in this conversation, not me.  I said my piece and left it at that, why won't you let this go? 

 

Because you want to feel superior to my method of going about being a vocal fan on the official teams message board? Get off your high horse, this is a message board, not church.

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24 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

My overall point is not to praise the FO, but to point out that they have tended to recognize and address the needs, and they sometimes do it fairly aggressively.  Doesn’t always work out obviously.  

 

Long story short, it’s hard for me to ding them too much in this situation as they had numerous needs (didn’t address outside corner and speed rusher either, but addressed quite a few needs), limited resources, and limited options - in terms of cap space/draft picks and available guards in the draft/FA.  

 

Here’s hoping someone surprises in the LG battle and we can put this specific issue behind us.  If not, hopefully we can work around the weakness and upgrade next season.  

 

Agreed 100%.  But I do think the front office deserves credit for their approach.  I have plenty of criticism for Snyder and Allen for some of the things they have said/done over the years, but I am not going to deny giving them credit for this because of my frustration with them for other issues.  If you like the approach, why wouldn't you give them credit for their approach?

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3 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

 

 

What I meant was that I don't feel many players around the league will be as optimistic as I am as far as the team the Redskins will have in 2018.  So Jahri Evans may pass on signing with the Redskins for the 2018 season due to his low expectations for the team, but he as well as others may be surprised as to how improved the Redskins are, but obviously by then will have already made his decision against playing for the Redskins.

 

I admit, I am a homer, and my optimism has let me down many times the last 30 years, but I think the Redskins will field a very competitive football team.  The reason I think they may not make the playoffs: brutal schedule and inexperience (a lot of youth, new QB to system).  But the main reason I am happy with the direction is the teams outlook for the next 5 year period, not necessarily just 2018.

 

 

You'd be surprised how much we agree on this topic.  Front 7 is currently underrated with the Payne pick and Allen coming back, but we need to see it in action.  We will survive the LG situation, but that doesn't mean I have to sign off on it. It sounds like a lot of people are concerned with this, some more then others, which is completely understandable, all things considered.

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5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

You'd be surprised how much we agree on this topic.  Front 7 is currently underrated with the Payne pick and Allen coming back, but we need to see it in action.  We will survive the LG situation, but that doesn't mean I have to sign off on it. It sounds like a lot of people are concerned with this, some more then others, which is completely understandable, all things considered.

 

 

I'm in the same place you are.... and concern with that position is warranted.  Prior to last offseason, we were held together with bubblegum and duct tape, so there was a lot of concerns to go around.   When you've progressed the way we have, and addressed the glaring issues the 'right' way (via the draft and smart free agency decisions) you tend to dwindle down the 'glaring' issues and they seem to rise to the top.  Then MOST people are talking about a single position of need, thus making it even more of an apparent issue.  

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4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

You'd be surprised how much we agree on this topic.  Front 7 is currently underrated with the Payne pick and Allen coming back, but we need to see it in action.  We will survive the LG situation, 

 

Absolutely, here is to a healthy summer! I'd love to see the starting Front 7 intact, I think they could be special, and am looking forward to seeing improvement from Ryan Anderson.  Seeing what McPhee, Settle, and Vigil have to offer coming off the bench will be exciting as well. 

 

And who knows, maybe our optimism spreads to Jahri Evans and he signs an affordable short term deal to plug the LG hole temporarily and away we go!!!

3 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

When you've progressed the way we have, and addressed the glaring issues the 'right' way (via the draft and smart free agency decisions) you tend to dwindle down the 'glaring' issues and they seem to rise to the top.  Then MOST people are talking about a single position of need, thus making it even more of an apparent issue.  

 

Exactly, it seems in years past we had multiple areas of weakness, and our attention was not centered around one position group.  It feels nice to see the number of weak spots reduced (at least for now on paper).

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A name to keep an eye on is Sean Welsh.  We picked up him up at an UDFA but he was projected to go in the draft somewhere between 4th and 7th round.  Looks like he's a little undersized, but with NFL training he could easily build up some of that strength.  They say he plays stronger than he is, and he's versatile having played G and T at Iowa.  I'm not expecting him to come in day 1 and challenge for a spot, but if he can come into camp and work with Scherff (former teammate) to develop some of those skills, as well as add some weight, he could be an option to at least give it a shot as the season goes on.  

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