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Welcome to the Washington Redskins Derrius Guice RB LSU

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51 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

You guys need to calm the F down!!! Worse case scenario we win 4 games and end up with a top 10 pick. It sucks losing Guice for the year but the silver lining might be landing another stud next season. I don't know if anyone is noticing but we are starting to stockpile 1st round talent all over the place. Then again another losing season would really blow

Stockpiling first round talent like Allen, Payne, Doctson and Guice? Guys who are injured or barely see the field? At some point these awesome first round talent guys need to contribute.

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It sucks and it sucks really bad. Same knee as college. Don't think it was repaired correctly or at all. Well at least he can get it fixed right this time now that he has access to the best surgeon(s) the Skins can afford. 

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Hopeful for a Todd Gurley type recovery. For this season I would prefer Perine gets the nod.. from my point of view he gives us more then Robert Kelly. Can he hold onto the ball? I guess we will see..but his college production and physical attributes give me some reason to believe.(morpheous)

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When did RB become so valuable again??

Especially a guy projected to have a 1st and 2nd down role in offense. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

You've seen what our running games has been in the past, right? And you're right, they are not that good, the past has shown that. So, we need to get other guys. And we did, but now he's gone, and we're stuck with the dudes that averaged 3.6 yards a carry, and were completely ineffective in short yardage situations. How bad is it? I'll tell you how bad. Our leading TD rusher, with a whopping 4, was let go and is now playing QB for the Vikes. Let that sink in for a NY minute.

 

7 minutes ago, wit33 said:

When did RB become so valuable again??

Especially a guy projected to have a 1st and 2nd down role in offense. 

 

 

 

Oh no doubt he was going to be a game changer IMO, let's not lessen the blow by not being real. That said the team finished 7-9 last year without Guice and a laundry list of injuries and OL combos were changing every game it seemed.

 

 

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1 hour ago, zskins said:

From what I heard on the radio yesterday RK will be the starter. 

 

Not what Gruden just stated in his PC. 

 

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@SWFLSkins

 

I was pumped about Guice, but still believe the RB position is one of easier to generate production out of. Still sucks though, but no way can some one convince me this sways the season win total dramatically. 

 

The run game is more of a product of the offense as whole in my opinion. If the Skins are clicking and converting situationally, then run game stats will improve. 

 

Hate it though. 

 

 

 

 

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I wouldn't trade a draft pick for anyone, that just screams TJ Duckett all over again. But I would explore the FA market.

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32 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

I was going to half-jokingly suggest Matt Jones, because I assumed he was still free.

But I had no idea that Philly recently signed him for 2 years.

I guess it is a little comforting to know that even Philly makes terrible mistakes in FA now and again.

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47 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

I guess it is a little comforting to know that even Philly makes terrible mistakes in FA now and again.

 

You just cursed us for freaking Matt Jones to run up 250 yds and 3 TDs on us both games now. 

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21 minutes ago, UKskins said:

 

You just cursed us for freaking Matt Jones to run up 250 yds and 3 TDs on us both games now. 

If he did do that, hopefully that would mean Ajayji is out for the season and the Eagles are doomed to not even make the playoffs.

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20 hours ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

You guys need to calm the F down!!! Worse case scenario we win 4 games and end up with a top 10 pick. It sucks losing Guice for the year but the silver lining might be landing another stud next season. I don't know if anyone is noticing but we are starting to stockpile 1st round talent all over the place. Then again another losing season would really blow

 

Agree from this perspective.   For me the upside of the injury

 

A.  Happened early, should be back fine in 2019

 

B.  I predicted 10-6 last 2 seasons.  Am going for the moment 6-10 now if so they will have a top 10 pick in a stacked draft

 

C.  I think Barkley is a stud.  And with Guice out, I think it easily makes the Giants the 3rd best team in the division and better than the Skins.  However, I still think they made a mistake by passing over Darnold who looked good in preseason.

 

D.  Maybe other players in the division get hurt.  For example, if Beckham or Barkley or Elliot gets hurt all of a sudden we are right there with those teams.   That's how we can get back in this IMO.  Not that am rooting for anyone to get hurt.  But there is a luck element to every season.  We can presume that the bad luck continues to inflict this team the most in the division.  And it seems like we are off to a hot start again on that count.  But you never know.

 

E. Even if healthy I don't see this as a superbowl roster.  So an infusion of a top 10 draft might be what the doctor ordered to take the next leap.  Alex will be 35 years old next year so its not crazy also to look QBs and they might be in position to take one.

 

As for some of the other comments made by others.  Yeah I don't think anyone is trying to convince anyone else for what they should think or believe. To each their own on that count.  And I appreciate and like the optimistic comments and get anyone who wants to see the glass half full. I also get the frustration with those who don't like hearing the pessimism.  I am typically a glass half full guy about the team (just not the management) and I can't recall ever throwing in the towel this early in the season.  But I genuinely feel that way.  I think that injury is the perfect storm especially in the context of we got no idea about Thompson and Reed's health -- both dude's coming off serious injuries with Thompson saying he was told he won't be 100% until Nov. 

 

I am not on the train of who cares its just a running back and since when is a running game the be all and end all, etc.  I don't think the team sees it that way either.  All off season we kept hearing including from Doug their priority was to fix their running stopping ability and improve their ability to run the ball.  If it was a minor and incidental thing as to winning games -- then we had a FO last off season on the wrong track.  Personally I think they were on the right track.  Drew Brees was 7-9 for 3 years in a row until they got Kamara.  IMO having a really good RB versus a mediocre one is really a big deal and season changer.

 

Rams gave Gurley for example a ton of money for a reason -- he's the engine that drove that offense.  Elliot in one fell swoop helped turned around Dallas offense -- and their defense for that matter via ball control.  Us going against Barkley, Elliot, and the Eagles group with Robert Kelley to me seems to be a joke of a matchup.  And assuming that the defense is going to do a 180 from last year and turn from a bad unit to a great unit in one fell swoop (and I get some reasons for optimism for a turnaround) seems like we are asking for a lot albeit its possible.  And Alex becoming a chuck it around the field type, throw for 4500 yards or so without a running game -- possible but that would be a first for him in his career.  We got to have a lot of what if things turn in our favor.  It's possible but for me too many things have to go right that have the potential not to go right.

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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15 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

The run game is more of a product of the offense as whole in my opinion. If the Skins are clicking and converting situationally, then run game stats will improve. 

 

Hate it though. 

 

 

 

 

 

Too bad Cooley is off the air, be interesting to hear his take.  His mantra about why the run game didn't work last year was:

 

A.  Running backs with poor vision.  Kelley-Perine had potential cuts and holes but  they didn't have the vision to exploit them. In his view it was the #1 problem. 

B. TE blocking on the edge was weak and Jay likes running the duo which requires the TEs to hold the edge and the guys we have are really bad at it.

C.  The running scheme itself and over reliance on the duo -- felt predictable compared to other more successful running schemes.

 

All those same dynamics are still in place.  Callahan calls the running game.  We got the same backs.  We got the same TEs.

 

For a turnaround-optimism I'd presume it would be this:   read option adds some new wrinkle to the running game that adds some unpredictability.  Sprinkle develops as a blocker.  Perine in year 2, grows.

 

What fueled my obsession for a RB in the draft was checking out on tape on some of Cooley's points.  And you could see what he was talking about, I posted many clips of it here and on other threads -- the poor TE blocking, and Perine and Kelley not exploiting holes that were created.   A lot of my pessimism is driven by that.  Clinton Portis who knows a thing or two about the position in a nice way talked up about the same thing in the off season and talked about how you need a running back who can see things and set up blocks.  

 

I have a little more faith in Perine than Kelley.  Even though I'd say Kelley's vision if anything looked a little better last season.   I just recall Perine's tape from college and if he can figure how to use his body better-balance to stay upright -- he's the dude IMO with the better potential.  From what reporters have said and what seems obvious too in interviews he's a quiet type -- not an animated guy.  I don't know if playing with a little more oomph would help a little.  For a big guy he got stuffed in his tracks a bit much for me.  The 3 yard run that Guice made in the preseason game was a case in point -- it felt pure attitude, he like a hammer just plowed through a bunch of Pat defender bodies right in front of him, he didn't have a hole but created his own.  You'd figure with Perine's size and strength he could figure out how to do the same?  That was Portis other point, the best running backs, create something out of nothing and Portis didn't feel like that guy was on this roster before the draft.  

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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20 hours ago, dyst said:

Stockpiling first round talent like Allen, Payne, Doctson and Guice? Guys who are injured or barely see the field? At some point these awesome first round talent guys need to contribute.

You are 100 % right and if they don't then like i said in another post we need to start asking questions why this is happening, its more than just bad luck at this point. Either we are targeting Injury prone people or something is off with our strength and conditioning .

 

Someone else mentioned how Orakpo hasn't missed a single game with the Titans, I mean cmon guys..... You don't get healthier in the NFL as you age, it doesn't work that way lol

Edited by JoeJacobyHOForRIOT

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Agree with this Brewer article centering on all the bad luck Jay Gruden has had running the offense.  

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/derrius-guices-injury-is-the-latest-chapter-in-jay-grudens-plan-b-coaching-tenure/2018/08/11/7c8d4132-9cd8-11e8-8d5e-c6c594024954_story.html?utm_term=.4ce31f9f1efa

Despite bursts of brilliance the past four years, Jay Gruden has yet to coach his ideal offense. Complication keeps ruining invention. 

 

...The coach has tried to create a stable and potent offense with pieces that are fragile or fleeting. Unlucky, too. Don’t forget unlucky. The latest victim of misfortune, 21-year-old rookie running back Derrius Guice, will miss the entire season after tearing the anterior cruciate ligament in his left knee Thursday night. So Gruden will enter his fifth season — probably his judgment season — without the team’s most exciting offensive addition. It will be another year of recalibrating, masking and, ultimately, hoping for another chance next season to have it his way.

 

Just when optimism felt okay tiptoeing into this preseason, pessimism overtook the Washington Redskins again.

 

...The offense doesn’t have a single, Julio Jones-like game changer (Reed would be the closest), but it has several good players who can combine to be dangerous if Smith distributes the football equally. But the resurrection of the run game, led by Guice, was perhaps the key to the offense functioning properly.

 

Now, Washington has several running backs who can do a little, but they are merely appetizers. Guice was supposed to be the main course. Thompson and others had talked openly about Guice running for 1,200 yards as a rookie. Just last week, Gruden talked like Harry Caray when referring to Guice’s confidence as a young tailback.

 

Guice was giving the offense its vitality. He was on the verge of becoming a focal point. Now, that plan must be scrapped for a year.

 

“He’s a guy that is just born with a gift of having great energy on a daily basis,” Gruden said. “He wakes up in the morning with a great bounce in his step, and every day is the same with him. I have not seen a down day from him.”

 

Friday was a down day for Guice, and for the hopes of an offense that could have been dynamic. Gruden will figure out something to make the offense functional, at least. But now he’s even more dependent on Reed making it through the season and performing at a Pro Bowl level. Now he’s back to working around a subpar run game.

 

Gruden won’t mope. He will still trust that, with his imagination and his players’ talent, the team can manage. But once again, he won’t have the ideal. At this point, the concept must seem like a priceless luxury.

 

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Too bad Cooley is off the air, be interesting to hear his take.  His mantra about why the run game didn't work last year was:

 

 

All those same dynamics are still in place.  Callahan calls the running game.  We got the same backs.  We got the same TEs.

 

For a turnaround-optimism I'd presume it would be this:   read option adds some new wrinkle to the running game that adds some unpredictability.  Sprinkle develops as a blocker.  Perine in year 2, grows.

 

 

 

 

Hard to argue the points laid out. I do put some more hope in the two listed above. I think Alex is smarter than the other guy especially at the LOS and will make audibles when facing 9 men in the box on first down. HE is not just going to run the called played into the teeth of a Defense. I won't believe it until I see it. He may do it a couple of times setting teams up like old Joe used to. 

 

The second hope is that the OL health and continuity with the development of either Kelley or Perine will pay dividends. Perines numbers through 8 games with a walking dead OL were not bad if HE can secure the ball and find holes. The run against NE where he bounced outside was a glimmer of hope there. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

Hard to argue the points laid out. I do put some more hope in the two listed above. I think Alex is smarter than the other guy especially at the LOS and will make audibles when facing 9 men in the box on first down. HE is not just going to run the called played into the teeth of a Defense. I won't believe it until I see it. He may do it a couple of times setting teams up like old Joe used to. 

 

The second hope is that the OL health and continuity with the development of either Kelley or Perine will pay dividends. Perines numbers through 8 games with a walking dead OL were not bad if HE can secure the ball and find holes. The run against NE where he bounced outside was a glimmer of hope there. 

 

 

 

The irony to that point is what the beat reporters have said is somewhat the opposite complaint as to Kirk which was he would check out too much from running plays as opposed to having the patience and giving them a try in spite of "what he sees".  I get the idea that Kirk is seen as the more rigid QB but it doesn't look like it so in this context specifically.  Cooley sees Kirk as a guy who is more patient with his reads and is more likely to connect  with the 2nd or 3rd read -- but sometimes too rigid that way.  Alex he sees as less rigid but also bails too quick on his reads and doesn't keep his eyes downfield well on the move.  Cooley thinks Kirk could use some Alex in him and Alex could use some Kirk in him.  Will see if he's right. 

 

I am not in the camp that Alex is an upgrade so I am not counting on him offsetting these running issues -- actually if anything this injury development makes me feel worse about the trade because to maximize Alex IMO that big time running back helps a lot.  But whatever it is what it is.  

 

Switching back to the running backs.  I've been catching up this morning to segments and also just listened to Standig on 106.7.  Combining all of those narratives -- running with mostly Russell's take.  Perine might have been on the bubble before the Guice injury.  They are mainly frustrated about his ball security -- its not just fumbles but he shows butter finger hands in practice and they don't love him in pass protection -- whereas they trust Kelley on both counts so that's why to the coaches Kelley > Perine. 

 

For me for the running game to pick up.  I am counting on B. Marshall or Bibbs if he makes the team as surprise finds.  I liked both in their limited stints.  Also I wonder about Carter -- Guice's roommate.  Thompson didn't just say Guice livened up the room but also mentioned Carter.  The dude has some wiggle though granted he's not the size of a first down type RB.

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The irony to that point is what the beat reporters have said is somewhat the opposite complaint as to Kirk which was he would check out too much from running plays as opposed to having the patience and giving them a try in spite of "what he sees".  I get the idea that Kirk is seen as the more rigid QB but it doesn't look like it so in this context specifically.  Cooley sees Kirk as a guy who is more patient with his reads and is more likely to connect  with the 2nd or 3rd read -- but sometimes too rigid that way.  Alex he sees as less rigid but also bails too quick on his reads and doesn't keep his eyes downfield well on the move.  Cooley thinks Kirk could use some Alex in him and Alex could use some Kirk in him.  Will see if he's right. 

 

I am not in the camp that Alex is an upgrade so I am not counting on him offsetting these running issues -- actually if anything this injury development makes me feel worse about the trade because to maximize Alex IMO that big time running back helps a lot.  But whatever it is what it is.  

 

Switching back to the running backs.  I've been catching up this morning to segments and also just listened to Standig on 106.7.  Combining all of those narratives -- running with mostly Russell's take.  Perine might have been on the bubble before the Guice injury.  They are mainly frustrated about his ball security -- its not just fumbles but he shows butter finger hands in practice and they don't love him in pass protection -- whereas they trust Kelley on both counts so that's why to the coaches Kelley > Perine. 

 

For me for the running game to pick up.  I am counting on B. Marshall or Bibbs if he makes the team as surprise finds.  I liked both in their limited stints.  Also I wonder about Carter -- Guice's roommate.  Thompson didn't just say Guice livened up the room but also mentioned Carter.  The dude has some wiggle though granted he's not the size of a first down type RB.

 

 

 

As for the Cousins thing, We don't know, what We Don't know, lol....I felt like He could have audibles on first down a few times to get the D out of the Box, but went ahead and ran it when it clearly wasn't working. Was that Jay not allowing him to make those calls? IDK. 

 

It's a good point about Perine, and they need to figure that out ASAP. I like Bibbs and Marshall, but as Tandler was saying they both might be a lot like Thompson. 

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52 minutes ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

As for the Cousins thing, We don't know, what We Don't know, lol....I felt like He could have audibles on first down a few times to get the D out of the Box, but went ahead and ran it when it clearly wasn't working. Was that Jay not allowing him to make those calls? IDK. 

 

It's a good point about Perine, and they need to figure that out ASAP. I like Bibbs and Marshall, but as Tandler was saying they both might be a lot like Thompson. 

 

I am not saying I do know.  I just recall a couple of the beat guys, if I recall Finlay was among them who said Jay was frustrated that Kirk audibled out of running plays if so he must have been given some discretion at least on some plays.   That was tough for me to forget because I was a bit surprised by the criticism.  But at least two beat guys have said variations of Kirk didn't trust the run game and audibled out of running plays at times and that frustrated some of the coaches.  Kirk looked sharp yesterday in his short stint for Minny.  Connected with Diggs.  Be interesting to see Alex next week. 

 

As for Perine, I got accused by someone on the board (not you) for hating the pick (even though I actually ironically liked the pick) because I repeated one of Craig Hoffman's criticisms about him.  When I repeat criticisms from others -- that doesn't translate to being my own criticisms personally but I figured some here are interested in what some of the beat guys hear from their sources even when its not all sunshine and lollipops -- so after laying down that disclaimer -- the tea leaves some pretty clear if the beat guys sources are good that Marshall and Kelley are locks.  Thompson, too.  Last spot a battle between Perine and Bibbs.  And concerns exist about Perine.  For me, I presume (maybe the Barber thing) that you can fix the butter fingers problem that supposedly Perine has. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am not saying I do know.  I just recall a couple of the beat guys, if I recall Finlay was among them who said Jay was frustrated that Kirk audibled out of running plays if so he must have been given some discretion at least on some plays.   That was tough for me to forget because I was a bit surprised by the criticism.  But at least two beat guys have said variations of Kirk didn't trust the run game and audibled out of running plays at times and that frustrated some of the coaches.  Kirk looked sharp yesterday in his short stint for Minny.  Connected with Diggs.  Be interesting to see Alex next week. 

 

As for Perine, I got accused by someone on the board (not you) for hating the pick (even though I actually ironically liked the pick) because I repeated one of Craig Hoffman's criticisms about him.  When I repeat criticisms from others -- that doesn't translate to being my own criticisms personally but I figured some here are interested in what some of the beat guys hear from their sources even when its not all sunshine and lollipops -- so after laying down that disclaimer -- the tea leaves some pretty clear if the beat guys sources are good that Marshall and Kelley are locks.  Thompson, too.  Last spot a battle between Perine and Bibbs.  And concerns exist about Perine.  For me, I presume (maybe the Barber thing) that you can fix the butter fingers problem that supposedly Perine has. 

 

 

The big issue is that by now, the entire NFL KNOWS he fumbles. And everything he gets the ball, teams will make a concerted effort to go after the ball, because they know he puts it down, which will exacerbate his problem. If he plays much, it will get worse before it gets better, if even indeed it does get better. Tiki Barber is the only guy I think think of that got better, but that was only be started holding the ball in a completely different way, the way that most RB's are taught to hold the ball now. He was the first guy I remember doing so.

 

In other words, I don't see Perine getting much better. And considering how strong he is, this really should not be the issue it is.

 

I was really pretty excited about the pick, but he has disappointed me. I don't think he runs that hard for someone that is as strong as he is.

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