By TK in ES Coverage

[SkinsGuy]

6 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Thanks for posting that article @HTTRDynasty, good stuff.  

 

Trying to temper my expectations, because they are sky high for this dude.  

 

 

Some folks expectations are sky high. TOO sky high, I think.

 

I hope they temper those expectations come preseason/regular season time, and remember that though Guice brings a lot of excitement to Redskins Nation, he is still only 20 years old, and a rookie. Prone to mental lapses and learning curves that all rookies endure.

 

I look forward to watching the kid play, but I don't want to put too much pressure on him too fast.

[zskins]

38 minutes ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

 

Some folks expectations are sky high. TOO sky high, I think.

 

I hope they temper those expectations come preseason/regular season time, and remember that though Guice brings a lot of excitement to Redskins Nation, he is still only 20 years old, and a rookie. Prone to mental lapses and learning curves that all rookies endure.

 

I look forward to watching the kid play, but I don't want to put too much pressure on him too fast.

 

I wouldn't worry about pressure at all from the fans. He already has a chip on his shoulder and is ready to prove the other teams that passed up on him how wrong they were, including the Giants (I would love too see that twice a year myself  ). He is a good kid with good head on them shoulders. He is mentally sharp and will do just fine. Of course he will make mistakes and have a learning curve but as fans of the teams we just can't wait to see what he can do on the field. That's all.

 

HTTR!

[goskins10]

59 minutes ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

 

Some folks expectations are sky high. TOO sky high, I think.

 

I hope they temper those expectations come preseason/regular season time, and remember that though Guice brings a lot of excitement to Redskins Nation, he is still only 20 years old, and a rookie. Prone to mental lapses and learning curves that all rookies endure.

 

I look forward to watching the kid play, but I don't want to put too much pressure on him too fast.

 

I am as big on Guice as anyone. But I agree expectations need to be tempered. He is still just one person. The Online will have to stay healthy. Last year the Redskins were 26th in before contact at 1.23 (Carolina was best at 1.91 - Miami worst at 0.59). He is a strong enough runner to get some yards the other backs we have can't get. But if he is constantly being hit at or behind the LOS it will do no good. 

 

The other concern I have is there is this much hype so quickly it could go to his head. This fan base is so desperate for someone to latch onto and be that star that any semblance of a true star/leader gets smothered with excess expectations it goes to their head and they become entitled. I believe that happened with Robert (not trying to start a RG3 thread, only mentioning it to the extent it applies here). The early success and subsequent fan worship got to his head and made him think he was bigger than the team. I don't see as much chance of that happening with Guice as he seems a bit less entitled. But it's possible. 

 

There is another difference in that there are some other players that could be stars - not the least of which is a QB that is an established leader and long time franchise QB. Also, the Dline has a chance to become dominant meaning will the hype will not just be on one shining star. It will be spread around. 

 

He also has a chip on his shoulder as he should have been a 1st rd pick - not dropping to almost the end of the 2nd. If nothing else, that humbled him and made him hungrier to prove everyone doubting him wrong.

 

One last positive - outside of DC, he is getting almost no love, unlike Robert who was the lead on almost every show with Luck. It was all over that place about Luck and RG3 running the NFL for the next 10 to 15 yrs. 

 

I am excited to see him play. Just a few more months. 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2018 by goskins10
Corrected the yards before contact numbers.

[Darth Tater]

On the yards before contact thing there are some semi-positive takeaways:

 

• Carolina also sucked at yards after contact
• Several of the teams with better yards before contact achieved that more because of scheme including multiple running threats in the backfield
• Other teams with the best yards after contact also had a real strong pass threat
• At least one team with above average yards after contact often played in situations where the run threat wasn't really scary and could be all but ignored

 

What percent of runs were stopped on first contact?

What percent of runs that were not stopped on first contact was that contact an actual busted tackle versus contact that any decent back should run through?

Edited June 25, 2018 by Darth Tater

[thesubmittedone]

The thing that excites me most is that we’ve got someone who has the athleticism to actually hit a home run. Even Portis, once we traded for him, was told to get bigger and was more of a grinder. 

 

Thompson has provided us some nice moments with big gains, but his top end speed actually leaves something to be desired.

 

Looks like Guice has it all. Hopefully it translates on the field and we get to see it right away, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if it takes a little time for him to get accustomed to the NFL. Some of the best backs in the NFL took a little time to really take off, like Bell and David Johnson. 

[SkinsGuy]

2 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

Thompson has provided us some nice moments with big gains, but his top end speed actually leaves something to be desired.

 

I don't know. He outran everyone for this 61-yard TD.  

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

One last positive - outside of DC, he is getting almost no love, unlike Robert who was the lead on almost every show with Luck. It was all over that place about Luck and RG3 running the NFL for the next 10 to 15 yrs. 

 

I am excited to see him play. Just a few more months. 

 

 

 

I am flying a long way to the opener mainly because I want to see his debut.  The longer I've digested Alex Smith where the novelty has worn off for me, my excitement has waned some -- don't get me wrong I like him but I don't see an upgrade, I think its at best a lateral move.  So Alex game 1 for me, I got some curiosity but I am not extra pumped for it.   Guice on the other hand, my excitement for that is through the roof for me. 

 

My main fear about Guice is injury.  That position is a hard one to maintain durability.   I spent some time slowing down running players from last season via coaches tape (some of those clips I put on this thread weeks back) and I do think Perine/Kelley not being quick to the hole, having quick feet or great vision IMO did contribute to last year's "meh" running game.  I think we will see a quick improvement with Guice.  To your point, I do think having a better LG and a blocking TE would help -- i am disappointed thus far in the off season they did zilch to improve that problem -- so if that problem persists the FO made that bed.  

Edited June 25, 2018 by Skinsinparadise

[SkinsGuy]

10 hours ago, zskins said:

I wouldn't worry about pressure at all from the fans. He already has a chip on his shoulder and is ready to prove the other teams that passed up on him how wrong they were, including the Giants (I would love too see that twice a year myself  )

 

Oh, I'm not talking about the team.

 

I'm talking about the sake of the board.   It will be crazy around here if they don't slow down the hype train.

[Darth Tater]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am flying a long way to the opener mainly because I want to see his debut.  The longer I've digested Alex Smith where the novelty has worn off for me, my excitement has waned some -- don't get me wrong I like him but I don't see an upgrade, I think its at best a lateral move.  So Alex game 1 for me, I got some curiosity but I am not extra pumped for it.   Guice on the other hand, my excitement for that is through the roof for me.

I can't wait to see if Guice is all that.  Wrong thread, but I am more pumped for Alex Smith than I was.  I knew in 2017 that our 2018 starting QB was most likely not going to be named Kirk Cousins. I thought our options were to burn our number 1 on a QB (maybe have to trade up) who may or may not work out (the only  first round QB we picked who had success here was name Baugh...1 out of 12!). If that strategy failed, we'd be putting our new coach/FO in a bind right off the bat. I also believed that rolling with Colt was likely out of the question if the coach and FO were on the hot seat as it seemed. Yeah, in my fantasy, having KC plus Fuller, Payne and Guice would really have me pumped but I don't think that was an option.  The more research and reading I've done into Alex, I've come to conclusion that he was, at worse, the best option available to us.

[thesubmittedone]

8 hours ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

I don't know. He outran everyone for this 61-yard TD.  

 

Did you accidentally stumble upon a bunch of highlights where he gets ran down from behind when you went looking for this one, or no?  

 

Shame on you for making me argue against Thompson! Don’t make me do it any more, and I’m not going to find those clips to prove my point, either.  

 

But, yeah, his top end speed leaves something to be desired. It’s ok, no one is perfect, Thompson is still awesome.  

[tmandoug1]

Yeah.... On that specific clip everyone got fooled by the draw play. They were in catchup mode from the second he broke into the second day. 

[cakmoney61]

On 6/25/2018 at 8:41 AM, goskins10 said:

The other concern I have is there is this much hype so quickly it could go to his head. This fan base is so desperate for someone to latch onto and be that star that any semblance of a true star/leader gets smothered with excess expectations it goes to their head and they become entitled. I believe that happened with Robert (not trying to start a RG3 thread, only mentioning it to the extent it applies here). The early success and subsequent fan worship got to his head and made him think he was bigger than the team. I don't see as much chance of that happening with Guice as he seems a bit less entitled. But it's possible. 

 

IMHO, Guice is a more humble person than "Bob" by a mile.  On the other hand, it would probably be wise to keep Guice away from Dan Snyder  even though I suspect Snyder learned some valuable lessons about staying in his lane for the betterment of the team. 

Edited June 26, 2018 by cakmoney61

[goskins10]

39 minutes ago, cakmoney61 said:

IMHO, Guice is a more humble person than "Bob" by a mile.  On the other hand, it would probably be wise to keep Guice away from Dan Snyder  even though I suspect Snyder learned some valuable lessons about staying in his lane for the betterment of the team. 

 

I tend to agree. My reason for bringing it up was not to start a comparison of the guys, just the situation. 

 

One would hope Dan has learned something - but who knows. 

[SkinsGuy]

15 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

Did you accidentally stumble upon a bunch of highlights where he gets ran down from behind when you went looking for this one, or no?

 

 

Oh, I didn't have to go looking for that clip. I knew where it was.  

 

Thompson is not a burner, say like Apke, but, as that clip shows, he's fast enough.

 

I can look for a clip where he gets caught from behind if you like.  

 

In the meantime, here's one of him breaking tackles against the Eagles for a TD. 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2018 by SkinsGuy

[Hail2theSkins24]

I think Guice will get a lot of touches, but his expectations are preposterous right now. Are there any LSU fans on here who’ve seen game after game of his that can form an opinion how he projects as a pro? He is very gritty and runs through people, sounds like a guy we drafted last year doesn’t it? I’m not saying he’ll plod for 3 yards like Perine, but is he fast enough to reach the outside lanes? 

 

 I love the kid as a Redskin already off the field. He was the 6th RB drafted in this class, and despite all the rumors, I don’t think it was because of off-field concerns. I hope I’m wrong, but could be one of many cases where NFL draft media overhyped a prospect thus making him a “steal”. I hope we don’t seriously think he’s going to come in and rush for 1k plus and 10 TDs as a rookie. Just setting up for disappointment 

[XxSpearheadxX]

19 hours ago, Hail2theSkins24 said:

I think Guice will get a lot of touches,  Just setting up for disappointment 

Driving that train, call me casey jones. 

I liked the Perine pick, I am floored by the fact we got guice. 

 

You really need to do yourself a favor and watch him play. Especially pre injury and after he healed up. 

Here are ten plays to get you started. 

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2018 by XxSpearheadxX
#fakenews

[BayouBrave86]

LSU alum here. Guice is the real deal and I was just as impressed by him as I was by Fournette. I’ll say it again but he is a future All Pro in this league and will be one of if not the top 3 backs in this league in 2-3 years. He is going to be an absolute animal for us. We got a gem and this along what we’re trying to build on the front 7 of our D has me the most excited for this team in a long time. Still can’t believe we got him, especially at where we got him. I was good with us using our first rounder on him, he is that good.

 

He’ll be better than Barkley. 

[skinny21]

13 hours ago, Hail2theSkins24 said:

I think Guice will get a lot of touches, but his expectations are preposterous right now. Are there any LSU fans on here who’ve seen game after game of his that can form an opinion how he projects as a pro? He is very gritty and runs through people, sounds like a guy we drafted last year doesn’t it? I’m not saying he’ll plod for 3 yards like Perine, but is he fast enough to reach the outside lanes? 

 

Not an LSU fan, but I’ve watched a whole bunch of his games, from ‘16 and ‘17... he’s a stud.  

 

Easily better patience, balance, speed and burst than Perine.  He can run inside and outside, pick up tough yards, bounce and wiggle through traffic, and can outrun defenders.  As a runner, he’s a complete package.  

 

As far as pre draft concerns/questions, there were a few things:  1. attitude (as you mentioned), 2. would he regain his 2016 form, and 3. can he perform as a receiver.  Personally, I’d add - 4. how will he fare in a scheme mixing power and zone, 5. how is his pass pro, and 6. how will he react to this being a full time job.  

 

#1 was pretty much answered - he has a great attitude and the “story” was pretty much bunk.  2 - he looked good at the combine and seemed to fare better as his knee healed up later in the season.  3 - Gruden has been very pleasantly surprised with his receiving work.  4 - TBD, 5 - needs some work (as do most all college rbs), but mostly TBD.  6 - TBD, but as I said, he has a great attitude.  

 

Quote

 I love the kid as a Redskin already off the field. He was the 6th RB drafted in this class, and despite all the rumors, I don’t think it was because of off-field concerns. I hope I’m wrong, but could be one of many cases where NFL draft media overhyped a prospect thus making him a “steal”. I hope we don’t seriously think he’s going to come in and rush for 1k plus and 10 TDs as a rookie. Just setting up for disappointment 

It wasn’t the NFL media overhyping him.  I, for one, had him as my top runner in the draft, and that was going into my rbs eval with virtually zero knowledge of rankings or anything.  He is a stud.  I have no doubt at all that he can get 1k+ yards... my only concern (aside from injury possibility), is that our combo of blocking, scheme, and Gruden’s play calling don’t allow him to achieve that success.  

 

His metrics - from athleticism, to playing vs stacked boxes, his big games, ypc, yards after contact, etc. - are excellent.  

 

BTW, he had some nagging injuries last year, but he doesn’t really have an injury record - no major surgeries, no real missed time, etc.  

 

I understand your concern, but Guice is a clean prospect with excellent tape, metrics, and productivity.  

[tmandoug1]

You know what I haven't said in a long time and I so do like saying it so much. When a skins running back hits the hole perfectly. "Boom......... and he's gone." I am hoping beyond hope to see Mr. Guice do this many times. Good luck DG. 

[Darth Tater]

Chris Thompson without a doubt has been our best RB for almost 3 years now.  His problem is that he's small by NFL standards. I've always been a guy who wishes Chris Thompson was a bit bigger (of course then I think he'd have gone a lot higher in the draft). Looks like Guice may be that big Chris Thompson of my dreams.

 

@skinny21

 

Don't think Gruden's play calling or our blocking scheme will do anything to hurt Guice's career.  Reviewing our running game from last year, blocking seemed to be much less of an issue than I thought. Most of the questionable play calling on Gruden's part had more to do with situations and the fact that WCO-based offenses tend to go with what works. The only concern would be that the apparent mistakes of our RBs were due to doing what the coach asked.

[SkinsGuy]

On 6/27/2018 at 1:19 AM, XxSpearheadxX said:

Here are ten plays to get you started. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the clip.

 

It really shows Guice"s speed, power, and anger when running.

 

I look forward to seeing him run in a Redskins uniform.

 

(Trying not to get sky high). 

[ConnSKINS26]

Guice is probably going to make a pretty big impact this year. Not just based on his superior talent, but based on his opportunities. Check this out:

 

 

[NickyJ]

What is a goal-to-go carry?

[redskinss]

1 hour ago, NickyJ said:

What is a goal-to-go carry?

I would imagine it's any time they get a carry on any down where there's no chance of a first down only a touchdown. 

Like first and goal or second and goal etc,  etc. 

[ConnSKINS26]

1 hour ago, NickyJ said:

What is a goal-to-go carry?

 

10 yards or less from the goal line. Can't get a first down without scoring, but its not technically a goal line carry as only some of them are right at the goal line.