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    • By JimmiJo in ES Coverage
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      ES Coverage: Giants vs Redskins 
       
      12/9/18
       
      DEFEAT!!!
       
      Giants 40 - Redskins 16
       
      Greetings friends, JimmiJo here, and I am joined by my shivering partner, Spaceman Spiff. Together we will bring you this all important NFC East divisional matchup between the Washington Redskins and New York Giants.
       
      When I was last with you the Redskins had command of the division and there was optimism to spare. Since, devastating injuries to quarterbacks, linemen, and cornerbacks has left this team losers in 4-of-5 contests.
       
      But there is still everything to play for, and if they can manage a victory today and the Eagles to the same Washington will once again have a share of the lead.
       
      I can dream can't I?
       
      On paper, the future looks grim. A continued collapse will start the questions about the future of personnel and perhaps leadership. Yes, we can certainly point to injuries as the primary reason the team is struggling. But the record earlier in the year was masking some issues with the squad. No real arial threat. An inconsistent running game. And a defense that has been anything but consistent.
       
      But these are questions for another time. Today, it is just two teams looking for a win.
       
      See you at the half.
       
      Follow along on Twitter @Skinscast 
       
      Inactives
       
      The Redskins declared the following players as inactive:
      o   No. 12 QB Colt McCoy
      o   No. 32 RB Samaje Perine
      o   No. 46 RB Kapri Bibbs
      o   No. 52 LB Ryan Anderson
      o   No. 63 C Demetrius Rhaney
      o   No. 66 G Tony Bergstrom
      o   No. 99 DL Caleb Brantley
       
      JimmiJo
       
      I was happy to see players like Josh Johnson and Byron Marshall in the game. The marquee guys did not earn the right to play following the disastrous first half. It was historically bad.
       
      Never before had the Washington Redskins trailed by as much as the 34-0 deficit they entertained today at the half.
       
      I remarked to one of the writers that in 13-seasons I had never seen this team so outplayed as today. The offense led by Mark Sanchez was throw-up in mouth bad. At no point did you feel like they would or could score.
       
      I tweeted before the game that it is time for Daniel Snyder to replaced head coach Jay Gruden. Yes injuries are the headline. But the offense was poor before the injuries.
       
      No aerial threat and an inconsistent rushing. They only seemed to score 20-points per game.
       
      What they did do well was hold on to the ball. And the defense was a takeover machine the first half of the year.
      But turnovers tend to even out.
       
      So I was more than glad to see those ‘backups’ play. All they did was show they should have been playing in the first half.
       
      Especially Johnson. Take a look at your Redskins’ starter the rest of the way. From his first snap the offense looked different. There was energy. There was life.
       
      And there was threat.
       
      Johnson played with more command, accuracy and imagination than Mark Sanchez. He looked much more the accomplished quarterback.
       
      A word on Josh Doctson. You are an idiot. Without the stupid penalty you are not letting the safety out-position you to make the pick with 5-minutes left.
       
      Following this game, staring at the standings and considering possible scenarios for getting in the playoffs is fools’ gold. It is all about assessing who it worth keeping for next year.
       
      I don’t believe head coach Jay Gruden is going to make the list. Nor should he. He has had nore than enough time to do something here. He had Kirk Cousins’ starting over 3-full seasons.
       
      He had his chance.
       
      I tweeted before the game team owner Daniel Snyder should let Gruden go and bring in Mike McCarthy. Washington Post writer (and friend) Rick Snider made a great counterpoint to that idea:
       
      “Why would McCarthy want to come here? He has better options,” he said.
       
      That sure feels like the truth. And if so, it may explain why Gruden is fast becoming one of the most tenured coaches in the league.
       
      This was my last game for this season. I would like to thank Extremeskins and the team for the opportunity this year. I will see you guys next year.
       
      Let me go on the record now and say I do not think Jay Gruden's position here is secure. Not with the likes of Mike McCarthy available.
PCS

Welcome to the Washington Redskins Da'Ron Payne DT Alabama

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11 hours ago, Vanguard said:

 

You're scaring me.  This sounds like the pattern of thinking Redskins management has.  The guy is dead weight.  When he's in the game he doesn't go forward or backward, he's just there.  He has no presence, he doesn't make plays.  It's not that I don't like him, he just doesn't make this team better.

What kind of extreme fan are you? That's what we do here. The starters are never good enough and veterans are stealing snaps from the great up and comers who went undefeated for no reason.

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Posted (edited)

Lanier to me can be the opposite coin of McGee.  McGee decent against the run, does nothing for the pass rush.  For Lanier if he's not pushing forward at the QB and instead is holding the point of attack, he's not hot against the run.  Its the reason I am sure PFF grades him as actually by their metrics as a "poor" defensive lineman.  Not that I agree with that, though.

 

When some talk about how they can stop the run much better with Jonathan Allen in there.  Well, Allen played almost always on the right.  Right where Lanier is lined up on that play.  With Allen out the two guys that seem to man that spot the most were Lanier and McClain.  They were gashed at times on that side.  McGee was good against the run for the most part on the left.  

 

Not saying I am down on Lanier.  Heck pass rush out of that position is helpful.  But I see him with this lineup (before injuries inevitably kick in) as the 3rd and long guy -- sometimes Manusky had him lined up at 0 or 1 in those spots. 

 

giantslanier2.thumb.png.09287107e846d6da02f8cf1c4afeb6d1.png

 

 

The guard, handles Lanier by himself shoves him to his right.  You can see the difference by staring at the hash mark in both frames.   Gallman gets a 16 yard gain running to that side.giantslanier.thumb.png.36209ed0b7b39d6f13b11de35d734a5a.png

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Gallman gets a 16 yard gain running to that side.

 


This helps... 

 

 

 

Holding.png

 

As far as Lanier, I agree.  His value is going forward.   It's almost like he's hesitant and so focused on trying to figure out the play that he forgets the blocker is coming and gets taken off guard...   I'm not ready to give up on him, but he's a piece, not an asset.. yet. 

Edited by OVCChairman
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, OVCChairman said:

 

As far as Lanier, I agree.  His value is going forward.   It's almost like he's hesitant and so focused on trying to figure out the play that he forgets the blocker is coming and gets taken off guard...   I'm not ready to give up on him, but he's a piece, not an asset.. yet. 

 

With the strong caveat that obviously I am just a lay person and not pretending to be an expert but It was hard to miss if you slow down film on the D line as to how individuals played.  For a guard if you can just occupy the D lineman at the point of the attack and increase the gap by shoving the D lineman out of the way in the other direction -- you've done your job typically.  And I saw that with Lanier a bunch of times.  But I still like him, you need a guy who can get to the passer, that's a big deal.  It would be cool though if he can improve against the run.  I don't think its a coincidence that with Allen manning R-DE they were decent stopping the run and replaced mostly by McClain and to a lesser degree Lanier and some others -- not so much.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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I try to speak with Lanier anytime I do a game for ES.

 

Whenever I ask about what he needs to improve on to get on the field more he talks about play recognition, reading keys and run fits. He was as raw as it gets coming in, basically. But man is he disruptive when he knows what he’s doing. 

 

He needs to take another step this offseason, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he emerges as one of our better Dlinemen. Would be nice. 

 

I think the game against Seattle, if I recall correctly, was where you could really see him display what he can be. Played great. They suck at running the ball though, lol, so it was a perfect opponent for him. 

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15 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

I try to speak with Lanier anytime I do a game for ES.

 

Whenever I ask about what he needs to improve on to get on the field more he talks about play recognition, reading keys and run fits. He was as raw as it gets coming in, basically. But man is he disruptive when he knows what he’s doing. 

 

He needs to take another step this offseason, but I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he emerges as one of our better Dlinemen. Would be nice. 

 

I think the game against Seattle, if I recall correctly, was where you could really see him display what he can be. Played great. They suck at running the ball though, lol, so it was a perfect opponent for him. 

 

To me the thing about Lanier even if he remains a one dimensional pass rushing type -- that's still a big deal.  Pass rush up the middle means a lot.  But yeah it would be great to see him develop against the run, too. 

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Paul Conner @P_ConnerJr

Paul Conner Retweeted The Team 980

Awesome story lol Zach Brown: "I knew they were running a lead or PA Lead cuz I noticed the widened gap. I went to alert Payne and before I could say anything he said "Yeah, nah, imma close that off." So Good.

 

Paul Conner @P_ConnerJr

Once Payne said "Yeah, nah, imma close that off," all Brown could say was "Aight, cool."

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A lot of fans don't seem to appreciate just how much intuitive communication goes on across the D front, and how critically important it is. Your guys see, but do they see the same things? Interpret them the same way? Instinctively rely on their teammate to take care of that while I take care of this? There is a lot more complexity to it, and top units develop almost telepathy at the snap to crush a play, cut it off and funnel back into the LBs waiting to kill it. Gotta be able to sacrifice ego for the team, that IMO is one of the joys in watching D well played, when it works it is results oriented entirely. That kind of comment Cali posted, "Yeah, see it, got it" shorthand bodes well for this group. Want to see that from the secondary too.

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Big thanks to @Skinsinparadise and @thesubmittedone for your research behind each of your posts. I know it takes a ton of time. 

 

Yeah, TC is going to be really fun to watch to see how they use Payne. It looks like they are already penciling him as a 3-down lineman. Obviously he’ll be a NT in 3-4 base for at least downs 1&2 but it looks like they have him in there as a DT in nickel. 

 

I like Swearinger’s recent comments about Payne vs Vea regarding Payne as the more athletic and that skill fits the NFL better. Coupled with Nick Saban’s recent comments saying Payne is more versatile at a 310-320 pound weight than when he was 340 as a sophmore makes me believe the Skins coaches buy into this as well. So Payne, I believe. was drafted to be a 3-down lineman and that is the goal. 

 

They’ll be rotating other personnel in and out during TC to find the best group but I think Allen and Payne will have the lion’s share of snaps come the regular season. Ionnidis and McGee will be situational ends. I think Lanier and Settle are depth guys. Maybe Hood gets cut but I too see him as depth. 

 

It’s gonna be real fun watching these guys develop over the next couple of months. 

 

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2 hours ago, LD0506 said:

A lot of fans don't seem to appreciate just how much intuitive communication goes on across the D front, and how critically important it is. Your guys see, but do they see the same things? Interpret them the same way? Instinctively rely on their teammate to take care of that while I take care of this

 

Part of the reason why consistency & chemistry are so important and why building and developing players around each other is usually the better way to go as far as units on a whole.  No problem adding a piece or two through free agency, but ideally you want a unit on either side of the football to not only be good individual players, but to also have trust in each other that they know and will execute their assignments so players don't feel the need to have one eye on a part of the field they aren't technically assigned to.

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17 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

Part of the reason why consistency & chemistry are so important and why building and developing players around each other is usually the better way to go as far as units on a whole.  No problem adding a piece or two through free agency, but ideally you want a unit on either side of the football to not only be good individual players, but to also have trust in each other that they know and will execute their assignments so players don't feel the need to have one eye on a part of the field they aren't technically assigned to.

 

I'm guessing that the Skins felt drafting 3 players from Bama's defensive front helps speed that process along lol..

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24 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

I'm guessing that the Skins felt drafting 3 players from Bama's defensive front helps speed that process along lol..

4 lol

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, JaxJoe said:

 

I like Swearinger’s recent comments about Payne vs Vea regarding Payne as the more athletic and that skill fits the NFL better. Coupled with Nick Saban’s recent comments saying Payne is more versatile at a 310-320 pound weight than when he was 340 as a sophmore makes me believe the Skins coaches buy into this as well. 

 

 

Saban's point came with a warning about the weight that came off to me like monitor this guy's weight because he can get too heavy and then he's not the same player.  At this weight, he's perfect. It seems like that warning goes double with Settle who has had issues with his weight and multiple people who covered Virginia Tech talked about this.  So it sounds like our team dietician needs to monitor these guys.

 

I was more of a Vea over Payne guy myself.   He to me just seemed to manhandle double teams and swallow the A gap in a way that struck me more like Snacks Harrison than how Payne looked to me -- and also brought more pass rush, too.  But with a guy with Vea's size, he can lose it quick if he gets any bigger.  

 

I guess that's the peril about the NT position just in general.  It's good to be big -- but you don't want to get over the top big.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Posted (edited)

As for the Alabama guys in camp -- and who knows what that means if anything when beat guys talk about it.

 

Impressive = Allen and Payne

Hear good things = Hamilton

Questionable = Anderson

 

Going away from the Alabama guys -- obviously a lot of hype for Guice.  Quinn supposedly looked good.  I noticed Tandler/Finlay beating up on Apke saying he looks lost.

 

I've become a bit of a cynic on Anderson after re-watching some games recently but not to the degree where I am throwing in the towel.   JP Finlay goes on 980 today, Anderson showed nothing last year.   I know what he meant after focusing on him in some games.  Hopefully last season was an aberration, I know he came into the season banged up so maybe he wasn't fully ready. 

 

I recall Jay mentioning before 2017 training camp that Ryan needed to get in better shape.  I didn't love hearing that it reminded me of Zorn saying the same about Devin Thomas after they drafted him.  I just figured its your first job, if you aren't going to care to be in shape then than when are you?  But supposedly Ryan is in good shape this year.

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, JaxJoe said:

Big thanks to @Skinsinparadise and @thesubmittedone for your research behind each of your posts. I know it takes a ton of time. 

 

Yeah, TC is going to be really fun to watch to see how they use Payne. It looks like they are already penciling him as a 3-down lineman. Obviously he’ll be a NT in 3-4 base for at least downs 1&2 but it looks like they have him in there as a DT in nickel. 

 

I like Swearinger’s recent comments about Payne vs Vea regarding Payne as the more athletic and that skill fits the NFL better. Coupled with Nick Saban’s recent comments saying Payne is more versatile at a 310-320 pound weight than when he was 340 as a sophmore makes me believe the Skins coaches buy into this as well. So Payne, I believe. was drafted to be a 3-down lineman and that is the goal. 

 

They’ll be rotating other personnel in and out during TC to find the best group but I think Allen and Payne will have the lion’s share of snaps come the regular season. Ionnidis and McGee will be situational ends. I think Lanier and Settle are depth guys. Maybe Hood gets cut but I too see him as depth. 

 

It’s gonna be real fun watching these guys develop over the next couple of months. 

 

 

Unless he beasts out at pass rushing in TC I don't see Payne replacing Ioannidis on obvious passing 3rd downs as a 3 tech DT in nickle 4 front formations soon. Ioannidis looked great last year rushing the passer before he got hurt.

Edited by mistertim
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2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I've become a bit of a cynic on Anderson after re-watching some games recently but not to the degree where I am throwing in the towel.   JP Finlay goes on 980 today, Anderson showed nothing last year.   I know what he meant after focusing on him in some games.  Hopefully last season was an aberration, I know he came into the season banged up so maybe he wasn't fully ready. 

 

I recall Jay mentioning before 2017 training camp that Ryan needed to get in better shape.  I didn't love hearing that it reminded me of Zorn saying the same about Devin Thomas after they drafted him.  I just figured its your first job, if you aren't going to care to be in shape then than when are you?  But supposedly Ryan is in good shape this year.

 

The ugly issue for us this season that could rear it's head is Edge depth.  Anderson is likely meh.  McPhee, if healthy is legit, but his knee might not be the same and could get reinjured anyways.  We had Galette spelling Smith/Kerrigan last season, which worked out well.

 

If Anderson is who we thought he was, then we could be in trouble.

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Unless he beasts out at pass rushing in TC I don't see Payne replacing Ioannidis on obvious passing 3rd downs as a 3 tech DT in nickle 4 front formations soon. Ioannidis looked great last year rushing the passer before he got hurt.

 

I don't think Tomsula would use the word "replace".  But he'll get some snaps, I'm sure of it.  Remember when we were healthy and still trying to figure out who all on our D-Line could do what last season, remember how much of a rotation we used?  I think through 4 games or something, our top 5 DL were all within the 40-60% snaps played.

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10 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I don't think Tomsula would use the word "replace".  But he'll get some snaps, I'm sure of it.  Remember when we were healthy and still trying to figure out who all on our D-Line could do what last season, remember how much of a rotation we used?  I think through 4 games or something, our top 5 DL were all within the 40-60% snaps played.

 

That's a good point. We did do a good amount of rotation, so Payne probably will at least see snaps there.

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Posted (edited)

My main (and really only) worry about Payne is that I saw him get displaced way too often against double-teams and chip blocks to feel comfortable having him man the NT spot.  He's a nightmare if you just single block him, but the second even a chip block comes by, he's moved off his spot, and does nothing.  I worry about his lateral strength/power. 

 

Re-watching a lot of his games, it just seems like he's not strong enough to hold his ground vs double teams like you would want from your NT, and when he wins, his whole game is based off exploding out of his stance and controlling 1 man, and being able to stack/shed to either side. He can definitely 2 gap, but really can't do it at the NT spot against doubles, because of how he's pretty consistently moved off of the ball, or walled out of the play by the G and C.

 

Don't get me wrong, he's definitely a beast against a single blocker, and I think his pass rushing is better than most give him credit for, but I really worry about Philly and Dallas having their way with him due to their athletic O-linemen who can consistently chip him before climbing to the 2nd level.

Edited by HTTRDynasty

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On 6/2/2018 at 1:17 PM, NickyJ said:

It was our first game of the season in 2010. I don't think Alex Barron ever did live it down. Wikipedia says he never saw the field again for the Cowboys lol

 

Except for 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2013. He got injured in 12 and 14, and hasn't been injured since. But yeah, he got season ending injuries in 2 years of his career. What a bust.

 

The was literally out long term for 2 of the last 3 years of his last contract with the Skins.  Are you shocked they moved on?  No hate, just easier to move on from a guy who was off-injured.

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Man, if Payne is as good as people are saying having Payne, Iiondissdahseasihdasd*, and Allen as our core  young DL will be awesome. Love his comment to Brown, such swagger and recognition.

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How is Settle doing so far?  Not many updates in his thread.

 

Still hoping we see a front three of Settle, Payne and Allen sometime this year.

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