Voice_of_Reason

Evaluating Jay Gruden in 2018

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12 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

I just watched Jay's postgame press conference and he is a defeated man. He has had enough. And you can see it in him. 

 

Have you seen him on the sideline.  Defeated is putting it nicely...

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2 hours ago, Dancing Bear said:

He should be available then.😎

The Browns have WAY more talent than we do. Plus are in great cap space shape. Why would he leave there to come back here, AFTER we have already screwed him over in the past? 🤣

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3 hours ago, Burgold said:

We can do that and we still will be a very unattractive destination for a hot coaching prospect. I'm not opposed to blowing it up, but at the moment, I'm seeing 2018 being so bad that the team doesn't have a shot in 2019 either, barring a miracle.

 

Maybe the best thing we can do is just give up on 2019, embrace the suck, trade away our resources, take the cap hit, and start over again in 2020. Maybe that way we can get Tua or Haskins or someone else who the team can build around.

 

In the short term, I'd fire Bruce. I'd consider promoting Smith, but look for the best GM prospect possible and offer them max control. Then, I'd let em know that Dan Snyder is going on eighteen consecutive world cruises. The owner will leave an open check book, but won't even be around to sit in his booth during games. I'd give Gruden a lame duck season, letting him, the coaching staff, and the players know that they have no faith in them and fully expect to fire all of em as soon as 2019 ends.

 

Then, I'd have Snyder cut an apology check to every member of ES. Sliding scale for seniority. After all, we deserve something for being here.

this was the best post today..got me laughing hard. nice job!!

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A good coach would of tried to shorten the game, and hope for the best, like Marty did with Banks. But Jay hires Manskdumby from Barryazzhats staff so he gets blown out!

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1 hour ago, repo_4 said:

The Browns have WAY more talent than we do. Plus are in great cap space shape. Why would he leave there to come back here, AFTER we have already screwed him over in the past? 🤣

You're right! 

But fyi, I was being sarcastic.

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They cannot fire Jay and Bruce soon enough.  Every additional day that they are employed by this organization is a terrible day.  It's time to make an attempt to right this ship in some fashion.

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2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I'm watching RZ and they're showing Broncos/49ers. The 49ers, who also have a ton of injuries including to their starting QB, are up 20-0 on a good Bronco team.

 

I'm not saying we should expect similar results, but I want the same kind of dedication to effort and preparation.

It’s clear why we never see this.  

 

If you start looking through the awful statistics, especially in theirs quarters and second halves, you can start to put together the picture this team is not prepared well, and is out coached/schemed virtually every week.

 

I really think Jay conceded the season the minute Colt went down.  He wasn’t even attempting to get possessions back against the Eagles.  He just gave the **** up. 

 

Teams know when thier leader quits. And then they quit.

 

Jay quit.  His team quit on him.

 

He shouldn’t be employed after tonight.

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9 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’m glad you got there about 2 years after I did. :P

 

Guess I’m slow.  Either way it’s time

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It's after 9. I'm surprised he hasn't been fired yet.

Hopefully they don't wait until tomorrow. 

The guy quit, and the players quit as well.

Even the most outspoken like swearinger and Norman, it was obvious they didn't give a ****.

 

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4 minutes ago, crabbypatty said:

It's after 9. I'm surprised he hasn't been fired yet.

Hopefully they don't wait until tomorrow. 

The guy quit, and the players quit as well.

Even the most outspoken like swearinger and Norman, it was obvious they didn't give a ****.

 

Even though Dan has a reputation for firing coaches willy nilly, it’s actually not true.  The only coach he fired in season was Norv.  

 

Marty was after the season, Spurrier quit, Gibbs retired.  Zorn was after the season, and could have been during, and Shanahan was after the season and could have been during. 

 

Its nit actually in character to make rash moves.  I think he got so she’ll shocked from the Norv reaction and his reputation as a hot head he’s gone completely the other direction.

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I think at this point Jay is basically just going to pull a Shanny and try to get fired so he can get paid and leave. As others have said, it's incredibly obvious he has basically quit and it shows in how the players are acting and doing things as well. That being said, if Jay goes but Bruce doesn't then absolutely nothing will change. Bruce will just pick another friend/retread and we'll start all over again with the same results. 

 

I don't dislike Jay as a person or a play designer; from everything I've seen and read he's a good guy who the players genuinely like. But he's just not a good HC or play caller. Bruce is just an asshat who needs to kicked to the curb as soon as humanly possible. He brings nothing at all to the table. He's a dick, not well liked by players, ****ty at personnel decisions, ****ty with contracts/negotiations.....just ****ty.

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1 minute ago, mistertim said:

I think at this point Jay is basically just going to pull a Shanny and try to get fired so he can get paid and leave. As others have said, it's incredibly obvious he has basically quit and it shows in how the players are acting and doing things as well. That being said, if Jay goes but Bruce doesn't then absolutely nothing will change. Bruce will just pick another friend/retread and we'll start all over again with the same results. 

 

I don't dislike Jay as a person or a play designer; from everything I've seen and read he's a good guy who the players genuinely like. But he's just not a good HC or play caller. Bruce is just an asshat who needs to kicked to the curb as soon as humanly possible. He brings nothing at all to the table. He's a dick, not well liked by players, ****ty at personnel decisions, ****ty with contracts/negotiations.....just ****ty.

Personally, I'm hoping for a "Swinging Gate" type of play moment.

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He runs candy ass camps. Walk throughs serve as practice, and we are yearly the most injured team. Broken bones aside, the sheer number of injuries this team suffers and the consistency with which it happens coupled with players calling for tougher practices and then other players crying when told to put on pads for practice seals Jay's fate for me.

There is an old phase,, you practice as you want to play. We don't practice football.. we practice walking through plays, running non-contact drills, pretending to play football. Training camp is spent in shorts and shells. No grind. No two a days. No conditioning to be tough.

As a result we are soft. We spend Novembers looking for replacements for our replacements and Decembers frustrated because they can't play. 

 

Folks yell about Allen. Allen gets players. The players soften up and get hurt. There have been mistakes, (our WRs stand out like a sore thumb), but when the mistakes get hurt so fast, how does anyone make a solid assessment?

But, yesterday watching haHa Clinton Dix run AWAY from Saquon Barkley, I wondered what Montae Nicholson ever did to make them bench him and make that deal? Did he **** Allen's wife or something? 

 

Excuses..  some folks would say injuries are not controllable and not a valid excuse, nd I would again point to Camp Cupcake and Pansy Practice and want to know how any of that soft garbage can prepare anyone for the physical nature of a football season..  because no matter how cerebral anyone wants to pretend it can be, football is a brutal game and attrition is a huge part of any season... and we are so woefully underprepared year in and year out to deal with it that the sword must taste blood. Jay's head needs to be on the block. (the patriots and seahawks don't care if the rules say they can't practice hard, can't hit. They do it anyway, pay the fines, their players don't complain, and they win.)

 

especially since some quality coaching candidates are already and will become available. Mike McCarthy is already out there, Ron rivera may lose his job, Mike Tomlin is hearing rumbles . I hear people say this is a bad destination, and i would disagree.  Dan Snyder has not been the heavy handed overlord for almost ten years now. Player acquisition has been better, drafts have been MUCH better, scouting is better. With Gruden Snyder demonstrates patience, will allow a coach time to work.

Jay is at the crux of a lot of bad things that happen to this team, and stands in the way of good things that may help this team. He's got to go.

 

~Bang

Edited by Bang
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This Club Jay thing interests me, and by that I mean, it makes me curious just how much less we are doing at practice vs. other teams.  It’s my understanding that there is only so much padded practice one can hold.  It seems to be general consensus us around here that it’s what leads to so many injuries.

 

I’m not arguing against that theory because I don’t know any better.  Just seems like folks taking a wild guess at what the problem is.  When in reality we tend to take chances on players with injury histories at a high clip.  And to no surprise, they keep getting injured.

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Ya can tell gruden is on his way out witht the way he wore his beanie cap with the Redskins logo to the back and the NFL logo to the front... sounds silly but trust me.

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In all reality, Snyder isn’t going to fire Gruden while the team is still mathematically alive for the playoffs and wildcard race (yes, realistically we won’t be in the playoffs, i am Aware of that)

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28 minutes ago, Bang said:

He runs candy ass camps. Walk throughs serve as practice, and we are yearly the most injured team. Broken bones aside, the sheer number of injuries this team suffers and the consistency with which it happens coupled with players calling for tougher practices and then other players crying when told to put on pads for practice seals Jay's fate for me.

There is an old phase,, you practice as you want to play. We don't practice football.. we practice walking through plays, running non-contact drills, pretending to play football. Training camp is spent in shorts and shells. No grind. No two a days. No conditioning to be tough.

As a result we are soft. We spend Novembers looking for replacements for our replacements and Decembers frustrated because they can't play. 

 

Folks yell about Allen. Allen gets players. The players soften up and get hurt. There have been mistakes, (our WRs stand out like a sore thumb), but when the mistakes get hurt so fast, how does anyone make a solid assessment?

But, yesterday watching haHa Clinton Dix run AWAY from Saquon Barkley, I wondered what Montae Nicholson ever did to make them bench him and make that deal? Did he **** Allen's wife or something? 

 

Excuses..  some folks would say injuries are not controllable and not a valid excuse, nd I would again point to Camp Cupcake and Pansy Practice and want to know how any of that soft garbage can prepare anyone for the physical nature of a football season..  because no matter how cerebral anyone wants to pretend it can be, football is a brutal game and attrition is a huge part of any season... and we are so woefully underprepared year in and year out to deal with it that the sword must taste blood. Jay's head needs to be on the block. (the patriots and seahawks don't care if the rules say they can't practice hard, can't hit. They do it anyway, pay the fines, their players don't complain, and they win.)

 

especially since some quality coaching candidates are already and will become available. Mike McCarthy is already out there, Ron rivera may lose his job, Mike Tomlin is hearing rumbles . I hear people say this is a bad destination, and i would disagree.  Dan Snyder has not been the heavy handed overlord for almost ten years now. Player acquisition has been better, drafts have been MUCH better, scouting is better. With Gruden Snyder demonstrates patience, will allow a coach time to work.

Jay is at the crux of a lot of bad things that happen to this team, and stands in the way of good things that may help this team. He's got to go.

 

~Bang

Wow, front office apologists. What’s the Skins record during Bruce’s tenure?  58-82-1, 40% win percentage, unacceptable. 

Bruce’s gutless no show post Reuben Foster signing. No public comments or press conference. Throw Doug Williams under the bus. 

Bruce’s handling of Cousins contract debacle.  Have a good day Kurt. 

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1 hour ago, Bang said:

He runs candy ass camps. Walk throughs serve as practice, and we are yearly the most injured team. Broken bones aside, the sheer number of injuries this team suffers and the consistency with which it happens coupled with players calling for tougher practices and then other players crying when told to put on pads for practice seals Jay's fate for me.

 

 

2 things about the injuries:

1. it's been the team's strategy to draft guys with injury history trying to get "value" for their picks

 

2. I've been saying it for awhile, but I attribute the sky high injury rate (to the OL specifically) as a direct result of Jay's "power" running scheme.

The formations are pretty obvious, and that leads to stacked boxes that routinely have upwards of 15-18 people between the hashes as it were. (obviously not every play is run inside the hash area, but a little hash sized area is where he prefers to stack everyone up. So you've got everyone bunched up in a 15-20 yard area every running play, on a 50 yard wide field with much of that space being unused.. injuries are bound to happen. We always have a ton of lower body injuries to the OL as a direct result of everyone being jumbled up in the middle of the field and bodies falling everywhere.

We didn't have nearly the amount of lower body injuries to the OL back in the zbs shanny days... at least not that I can recall. Guys were moving in space and the use of angle blocks, traps, pulls and everything else kept guys in space and on the move, rather than being stood up in the middle of the field having bodies falling all over the place.

 

I think it's pretty obvious that McVay covered for much of Jay's ineptitude when he was the OC. Since Jay took over playcalling duties the offense has ground to a halt.. meanwhile in LA McVay has taken a stiff like Goff and turned him into a pro-bowl qb.

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