Evaluating Jay Gruden in 2018

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, dyst said:

He's a good coach, just not great. If you are going to lack elite talent then you better have a damn fine coach, which he is not. He has a system, and if he has players for that system to all stay healthy they he can net you 7-9 wins (maybe eek out a few more). 

 

I think Jay is a very good offensive mind who is talented at designing plays, but I think he's *at best* a mediocre HC. He coaches scared, he looks way too lost way too often, his clock management is terminally ill, and the team is relentlessly unprepared under him and appears to have precisely zero urgency at all times. 

[dyst]

15 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I think Jay is a very good offensive mind who is talented at designing plays, but I think he's *at best* a mediocre HC. He coaches scared, he looks way too lost way too often, his clock management is terminally ill, and the team is relentlessly unprepared under him and appears to have precisely zero urgency at all times. 

A good coach, just like a good player...makes an immediate impact. You don't have to wait 5 years to see it all come to together so I have to agree.

[NoCalMike]

Let's talk about DJ Swearinger for a second. Not his play on the field, but his evaluation or maybe a better word is perception....of practices.

 

This is the fourth or fifth time he said the team doesn't take late week practices seriously.  If his assessment is accurate, that should be ringing alarm bells about Jay Gruden. 

 

The part that baffles me however is that Gruden never really seems to mention the same issue after losses.

 

Both of them were in the NFL prior to being with this organization, so they are both drawing from previous experience, as far as how they perceive practice should go.

 

So what are we to believe here, that practices are not being taken seriously, or that Gruden just has a different style of running things?

 

DJ obviously feels strongly enough about it that he doesn't have issues mentioning it multiple times in public to the media

 

 Has Gruden ever publicly responded to this?

[justice98]

Yeah, this Swearinger business is telling.  You got a player begging to be worked harder and for better, more focused practices.  

 

Gruden just is stubborn to a fault.  He's not one to make changes or adjustments on any level, during a game, on the practice field, in training camp.

 

You know DJ is making his thoughts clear in private, but is anybody on the coaching staff listening.

 

Either Gruden sees what DJ sees and is ignoring it, or Gruden just doesnt see it.  Either one is bad.  And I dont think DJ is making it up in his head or overreacting.

[Wildbunny]

Not sure about Gruden responding to this publicly. And I don't think he should by the way.

 

FWIW, it's the fifth time Swearinger complained about it. And while I don't have much problem with him voicing his opinion, I'm more and more on Portis' stance here with Swearinger:

- If you're complaining about that, name guys! Who are these guys? Are they regular starters like Norman, Smith, Reed, Williams, Brown, or are they back end roster guys? That makes a big difference here.

- Make sure you told guys before going public. They have to be the first to know.

 

Now, it's true that it doesn't look good on Gruden's tenure of his locker room so far. But as a whole, even if he's responsible of training sessions with the coaching staff, he's not alone here.

- Players have to be accountable of how they're acting during practice. It's up to everyone to be a professional.

- That's also up to team leaders, captains, to make sure everyone is acting professionnally on this matter. Swearinger voicing his opinion in public his fine. OK guy, I love it. But are you in their face telling them to focus when that kind of **** happen? No? So you're no leader. I'd expect guys like Brown, Kerrigan, Williams, Scherff to get into their faces.

 

Also, I have a hard time believing that guys like Callahan or Tomsula, especially the latest, are on "in their face" type of coach. And many around looks like not.

 

Finally, that is exactly the point were a GM could help tremendously here by doing GM stuff. Coaches can only do so much, but cannot force player to be professionnal. They can prevent them from playing, but that's merely it. Having a professionnal GM around here to cut a few guys because of this and signing more focused and dedicated guys would help a lot in that department.

 

I'm not giving a pass to Jay on this as he have to take care of these issues, but with Swearinger's rants we have zero clue about what he does. Maybe that did happen, and Jay did nothing, which wouldn't look good. But he might also have addressed it already in the locker room, which is more probable and is all he can do. Then, name the guys, because if those not focused are supposedly established players that keep on starting, then that is a ****ing huge problem on Gruden. But if those that are doing this are just back ups, back end roster type of guys, or players put down the depth chart because of such kind of thing, then it gets hard to blame Gruden for this as, once again, that's all he can do without a good GM above him.

 

10 minutes ago, justice98 said:

Yeah, this Swearinger business is telling.  You got a player begging to be worked harder and for better, more focused practices.  

 

Gruden just is stubborn to a fault.  He's not one to make changes or adjustments on any level, during a game, on the practice field, in training camp.

 

You know DJ is making his thoughts clear in private, but is anybody on the coaching staff listening.

 

Either Gruden sees what DJ sees and is ignoring it, or Gruden just doesnt see it.  Either one is bad.  And I dont think DJ is making it up in his head or overreacting.

Except you have no clue about how Gruden acts with this. 0, zilch, nada...

 

Swearinger rips his teammates. And only them. It's not a shot at the coaches. It's a shot at some specific teammates.

 

As I said, he can go this route, but he needs to tell more. Right now, it's either too few or too much. Either he just shut up about it, or he tells the whole story, name guys, tells what coaches did and everyone will be able to have their opinion straight.

[justice98]

35 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

Not sure about Gruden responding to this publicly. And I don't think he should by the way.

 

FWIW, it's the fifth time Swearinger complained about it. And while I don't have much problem with him voicing his opinion, I'm more and more on Portis' stance here with Swearinger:

- If you're complaining about that, name guys! Who are these guys? Are they regular starters like Norman, Smith, Reed, Williams, Brown, or are they back end roster guys? That makes a big difference here.

- Make sure you told guys before going public. They have to be the first to know.

 

Now, it's true that it doesn't look good on Gruden's tenure of his locker room so far. But as a whole, even if he's responsible of training sessions with the coaching staff, he's not alone here.

- Players have to be accountable of how they're acting during practice. It's up to everyone to be a professional.

- That's also up to team leaders, captains, to make sure everyone is acting professionnally on this matter. Swearinger voicing his opinion in public his fine. OK guy, I love it. But are you in their face telling them to focus when that kind of **** happen? No? So you're no leader. I'd expect guys like Brown, Kerrigan, Williams, Scherff to get into their faces.

 

Also, I have a hard time believing that guys like Callahan or Tomsula, especially the latest, are on "in their face" type of coach. And many around looks like not.

 

Finally, that is exactly the point were a GM could help tremendously here by doing GM stuff. Coaches can only do so much, but cannot force player to be professionnal. They can prevent them from playing, but that's merely it. Having a professionnal GM around here to cut a few guys because of this and signing more focused and dedicated guys would help a lot in that department.

 

I'm not giving a pass to Jay on this as he have to take care of these issues, but with Swearinger's rants we have zero clue about what he does. Maybe that did happen, and Jay did nothing, which wouldn't look good. But he might also have addressed it already in the locker room, which is more probable and is all he can do. Then, name the guys, because if those not focused are supposedly established players that keep on starting, then that is a ****ing huge problem on Gruden. But if those that are doing this are just back ups, back end roster type of guys, or players put down the depth chart because of such kind of thing, then it gets hard to blame Gruden for this as, once again, that's all he can do without a good GM above him.

 

Except you have no clue about how Gruden acts with this. 0, zilch, nada...

 

Swearinger rips his teammates. And only them. It's not a shot at the coaches. It's a shot at some specific teammates.

 

As I said, he can go this route, but he needs to tell more. Right now, it's either too few or too much. Either he just shut up about it, or he tells the whole story, name guys, tells what coaches did and everyone will be able to have their opinion straight.

 

No, we have a clue, because nothing has changed, otherwise we wouldnt keep hearing DJ say the same thing 2 years in a row.  He complained about bad Friday and Saturday practices after the Vikings game last year.  Bad practices translate to Sunday, this is not a new thing or unique to the Redskins. 

 

And then Gruden will come out and say some version of "I gotta do better preparing us".  Just for giggles, how about he demand better late week practices. See how that goes.

 

If the coaches allow a soft culture to permeate, that is absolutely on them. 

[LaRonDontLikeUgly]

23 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

Swearinger voicing his opinion in public his fine. OK guy, I love it. But are you in their face telling them to focus when that kind of **** happen? No? So you're no leader. I'd expect guys like Brown, Kerrigan, Williams, Scherff to get into their faces.

 

There is zero chance DJ isn't saying it to these guys faces.  He might be the most vocal leader we have ever had on this defense.  None of the other guys you mentioned are on the same planet as Swag when it comes to being vocal.

 

I also disagree with what you/Portis think about calling specific guys out.  Real leaders don't point fingers at an individual- they hold the entire locker room accountable.  Whether it's Josh Norman or Luke Bowanko who is loafing around means absolutely nothing.  In fact, the guys on the fringe of the roster should be (and usually are) busting their butts even harder to get noticed.

 

Gruden lacks urgency.  So does his team.  Pretty simple to me.

 

[NoCalMike]

Yeah and that is another thing, Gruden while not addressing DJ's stuff directly, has said on multiple occasions he needs to prepare the team better, but he always says it as almost a throw-a-way coach speak kind of anecdote.  Does he mean X's & O's?  A better game plan? Better adjustments? Or is the actual issue the lackadaisical practices themselves?

 

I don't need (nor want) DJ naming names, I just I wish I had a better idea of what he meant as far as whether he is referring to the way the practices themselves are run, or if it is players not taking it seriously and just trying to get away doing the bare minimum. Also, is Gruden oblivious to this or what?

 

It just seems bothersome.

[Wildbunny]

40 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

No, we have a clue, because nothing has changed, otherwise we wouldnt keep hearing DJ say the same thing 2 years in a row.  He complained about bad Friday and Saturday practices after the Vikings game last year.  Bad practices translate to Sunday, this is not a new thing or unique to the Redskins. 

 

And then Gruden will come out and say some version of "I gotta do better preparing us".  Just for giggles, how about he demand better late week practices. See how that goes.

 

If the coaches allow a soft culture to permeate, that is absolutely on them. 

 

37 minutes ago, LaRonDontLikeUgly said:

 

There is zero chance DJ isn't saying it to these guys faces.  He might be the most vocal leader we have ever had on this defense.  None of the other guys you mentioned are on the same planet as Swag when it comes to being vocal.

 

I also disagree with what you/Portis think about calling specific guys out.  Real leaders don't point fingers at an individual- they hold the entire locker room accountable.  Whether it's Josh Norman or Luke Bowanko who is loafing around means absolutely nothing.  In fact, the guys on the fringe of the roster should be (and usually are) busting their butts even harder to get noticed.

 

Gruden lacks urgency.  So does his team.  Pretty simple to me.

 

2 in one answer.

 

I believe you guys never went to school. It's up to pupils to study. Teachers can only do so much. At some point, hierarchy have to act as well. Teachers can punish, they just cannot eject you from school. Gruden is alike, he can punish, he just can't cut guys.

 

Not calling names in public? OK why not. Then don't go in public. It's either too much or too few. The fact that only Swearinger complains about that publicly is also interesting in itself. Does the guy have any credibility in the locker room? Is he trying to make a name by himself? Trying to look like the teacher's pet? Saying that if coaches don't think that those sessions are taken lightly, that players are working hard, then that's Swearinger being a cancer in the locker room as well. We have one guy bashing his teammates publicly. And we believe him with not more proof. Because he's playing hard? Terrell Owens was also... Other players complained about their teammates publicly, but we then bashed them with no more proof here.

 

Guy is calling teammates in public. Did he said that he told them?

No, in fact "He plan on addressing the defensive guys". OK. So he wants to be a leader, but didn't act? That's funny. So you believe that DJ is not the kind of guy to let it go? But you really believe Tomsula would allow that? Callahan? Gray? Even a guy like... Peterson?

 

The fact that it comes regularly is a problem yes. That falls on Gruden, up to some point. Players are supposedly PRO. So you'd expect them to act like that. If they aren't, that's also on them. But Gruden is not in charge of the personnel and cannot cut those guys. That's up to the GM (ie: Bruce Allen/Doug Williams). But is it always comings from the same guys? Or is it different guys? Those guys from last year are still around? Where they cut? not signed? Is it all training session long? Or is it a guy making a joke here and there?

 

Now if you remember Scot's era, there were report that Scot was bashed for dealing with those kind of stuffs with some players. So that should tell you that the FO agreed with players, not coaching staff or GM. Which is a blow to Gruden's authority as players can do whatever they want without being fined. If the FO doesn't back up its coaching staff and GM in such situation, then problem is FO, not coaching staff.

 

Don't want to hear names? OK, why not, but it's a bigger issue if that's someone like Brown or Trent than Luke Bowanko. Sometimes Backup doesn't care much because they'll be inactive on GD so I can be fine with that. And if that's those guys DJ's talking about, then it's a whole non story.

 

Swearinger isn't saying that practice sessions are light or whatever or that the coaches are easy. No, just that guys are taking it easy. And if your memory serves you well, there was some articles earlier this season about the OL wearing suits and ties under their pads for whatever reason. Game ended up being a disaster a few days laters. We're talking Trent Williams and Ty Nsekhe here. Coaches allowed it, for sure.. That didn't happen again. So coaches are dealing with it no?

 

If practice sessions are light, that's on Gruden and his staff 100%. If player aren't taking them seriously, you can put the blame on the coaching staff, but you just cannot dismiss players from their own accountability.

 

Putting the sole blame on Gruden is foolish here.

Players are accountable of their behavior. Especially when they're supposedly pros. They're grown adults, not 6 years old kids.

 

Once again in this situation, a real GM could help by cutting guys that aren't taking this seriously, or trading guys that are cancers in the locker room. But we have none of that.

 

So, Swearinger said it, then it's true and Gruden sucks. That's how it should be read? That's an assumption that would require more info.

 

I mean, in the end of it, what can really a HC do here?

A - Say it publicly? No, you don't want that.

B - Bench players? Can you really bench Trent Williams and Ty Nsekhe for Geron Christian because he had fun a friday and usually plays his tails off? Sure fans would love that.

C - Yells them to stop? Pretty sure they do. If they obey great. What if they don't? See A and B or repeat C until you get a real GM that can get you to option D.

 

D - Get the GM to either tell the player to get into the bus or get cut/released/traded to Cleveland/NYJ or whatever crappy team of the moment.

[Peregrine]

I think that Jay was like Jim Haslett.  Never any good, just rode the coattails of better coaches to make it look like he was decent.  Hes parlayed it into a job he never should have been hired for, and I have no doubt in the bizarro NFL world he will get a second HC chance, and also botch that.

 

The problem with Jay is he isnt good at anything.  Hes not a good offensive playcaller, as this current offense, and last years, shows.  Hes not a good game manager, in fact hes one of the worst in the NFL.  Hes not a good leader and motivator, as our consistent collapses on prime time and other key games shows.  And hes not a good builder of a coaching team, as his choices of coaches such as Jim Haslett and Joe Barry show.  The worst thing that can happen for the franchises future right now, is for him to squeak into the playoffs at 8-8 or 9-7 as the Eagles and Giants implode.

 

Theres only so long some of you can make excuses for him on here.  He has total control of the team, players, and their motivation.  Hes had 5 years to mold it how he wants it, and learn to motivate his players, and prepare them for games.  And everytime we play a half-decent team we become a laughingstock yet again.

 

But the most damning thing about Jay Gruden shouldnt actually be all of that.  It should be clear that anyone who pleases the likes of Bruce Allen is almost assuredly terrible at their job.

[Peregrine]

On 11/24/2018 at 5:02 PM, carex said:

 

not when you lose your QB in the shortest week possible

Ask the Eagles how that worked for them, losing a better QB than Alex Smith.

[Stadium-Armory]

I think DJ's comments are the last nail in Gruden's coffin. He won't survive until next year. 

 

DJ is saying the coaching style has led to a soft and unprepared team. You can't have that.

 

Add: And I'm not just taking DJ's word for it. I can see it with my untrained eye. We look flat and unprepared too often.

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 11/26/2018 at 10:59 AM, dyst said:

He's a good coach, just not great. If you are going to lack elite talent then you better have a damn fine coach, which he is not. He has a system, and if he has players for that system to all stay healthy they he can net you 7-9 wins (maybe eek out a few more). 

Is he a good coach? I think he's an average at best coach.  I agree with your overall point that if you lack elite talent you need to have a better coach to make up for it.

 

But Gruden isn't good.  He can't manage the clock, he's an awful play caller, he's bad at in-game management, the team has complained about preparation, mostly Swearinger, but others too, and they get blown out on no-show type efforts on too regular a basis for him to be "good."

 

He is almost exactly what his record says he is, which is a slightly below .500 coach. 

 

Question: If you handed him Dallas' roster, who just beat New Orleans, do you think he could do as well as Jason freaking Garrett?  And I mean, he's allowed to hire his coaching staff, install his system, etc.  I'm not sure.  Maybe.  I doubt it.

 

If he was coaching KC/Rams/Saints, are any of those teams 10-1/9-2?  I doubt that also.  They'd be better than the 'Skins record, because they have more talent. 

 

Gruden just isn't "good."  He's "meh" to "ok"

 

 

On 11/26/2018 at 8:57 AM, Reaper Skins said:

If your starting Qb is McCoy next year, you can't fire Gruden.  Installing a new playbook eliminates any starting ability talent that McCoy has.

 If you are going to string the QB thing along one more year to see what happens with Alex, and just stay pat with McCoy, you're probably going to suck anyway, so you might as well start building with your next HC/GM tandem.

 

Quote

The smart thing to do is fire Allen, have the new GM come in and evaluate the roster, address the QB situation, the overall team health situation, and the offensive playmaker situation, then use 2019 to decide whether those things were the reason for Gruden's ineffectiveness.

All you have to do is look at 2016, the decision to hire Barry, the blown games and losses down the stretch, and the subsequent inability to do anything better than that since then to know all you need to know about Gruden. 

 

A good coach has that 2016 team in the NFC Championship game with an 11-5 record or better.  They had a SB quality offense, and because Jay hired the absolute worst DC in the history of the league, they had a historically bad defense.  Competent coaching, hell maybe even just upgrading from Barry to Manusky, would have probably had 2-3 more wins MINIMUM. 

 

Quote

If they are, you give him more time and try to give him a better roster and medical/weight training support staff.  If the GM decides Gruden is the reason we're underperforming, you let him walk when his contract is up, which gives you time to replace him with a well researched candidate, rather than a reactionary move with no plan B in sight.

The Jay Gruden conversation has taken on a lot of the same elements of the Jason Campbell conversation.  IF everything is perfect, JC can be an above average QB. 

 

People were complaining so loudly about Zorn, weapons, roster, whatever, and the OL wasn't good enough, blah blah blah. 

 

The fact is that he was an average at best QB who couldn't elevate his team.

 

Jay Gruden is an average at best coach who cannot elevate his team.

 

The parallels are amazing. 

 

Also, Dan HAS to hire a new GM to make the decision.  You can't let Bruce make this decision.  The new GM shouldn't need another year of 8-8 and 3rd place in the division to figure out that he needs a change.

 

The problem is going to be finding a new GM.  Unless Dan already knows what he wants to do, you can't do the coach until you do the GM.

 

IF Dan knows what he wants to do at GM, then if they lose to the Eagles and Giants, Dan needs to fire both Bruce and Jay in the parking lot of FedEx, hold a press conference introducing the new GM, and let the coaching search begin immediately.

 

 

[Rex Tomb]

So...do we go after Mike McCarthy?

[Springfield]

Just now, Rex Tomb said:

So...do we go after Mike McCarthy?

 

**** yes.  This is a beautiful opportunity to can Allen and Gruden and get McCarthy and... someone who isn’t a giant idiot douche.  Maybe build a proper football team for once.

[skins island connection]

Just replacing Bruce Allen would be an amazing fresh start.

As V of R said, if this team comes out Monday night and shows to be unprepared and flat-footed, with over a week and a half of preparation time, that falls directly on Gruden and his inability to scheme and gets his players motivated. Zero excuse for this to happen.

 

With so many thinking tomorrow night's game will be a blow-out, one has to think that more than likely it would dictate that it will not happen, but you reflect on past history and quickly come to your senses. Repetitiveness usually coincides with predictability.

[757SeanTaylor21]

1 hour ago, Rex Tomb said:

So...do we go after Mike McCarthy?

 

Ta ta ta ta ta ta hellllllll no. He has one of the goats and has called horrible games. Nk thanks. 

[glongest]

When you look at the lack of talent on this team, no quarterback to build around, the way the team is run and managed (no general manager) and I could go on, I think it would be very difficult to hire a coach who has had success in this league.  Why would they want to come here?  This franchise is a wreck in terms of how it is put together for success on the field.

[skinsfan35yrs.]

3 hours ago, Springfield said:

 

**** yes.  This is a beautiful opportunity to can Allen and Gruden and get McCarthy and... someone who isn’t a giant idiot douche.  Maybe build a proper football team for once.

shouldnt the new GM be the one to hire "his" type of coach?

[Warhead36]

3 hours ago, Rex Tomb said:

So...do we go after Mike McCarthy?

McCarthy at this moment would be a downgrade from Gruden. He is terrible. Watch the Packers play and you'll see. They just lost to freaking Arizona at home.

[LMFAO Alex Smith]

McCarthy is terrible. He has the best pure passing QB in all of history and he somehow gets worse year after year.

 

what do you think he will do with our dumpster fire of an offense?

 

HOWEVER if it means firing gruden, I’m all for it. I can’t take another season of lackluster preparation and terrible play calling. At least McCarthy will give us hope for the first few games of his tenure lol... something jay gruden can’t ever do

[kingdaddy]

Going back to the MNF game in KC last year Jay had us playing very physical football....if Doc holds on to that pass in the end zone I wonder what we might have become. 

Fast forward to tomorrow night and Jay gets another shot at a prime time win with significant meaning....it's the biggest game of his head coaching career as far as his job security goes.

[skinsfan35yrs.]

6 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Going back to the MNF game in KC last year Jay had us playing very physical football....if Doc holds on to that pass in the end zone I wonder what we might have become. 

Fast forward to tomorrow night and Jay gets another shot at a prime time win with significant meaning....it's the biggest game of his head coaching career as far as his job security goes.

One has to wonder.  I thought the game where alls we had to do was beat a terrible gnats team and we are in. But no we lose and looked pretty crappy doing it and he keeps his job

[NickyJ]

42 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Going back to the MNF game in KC last year Jay had us playing very physical football....if Doc holds on to that pass in the end zone I wonder what we might have become. 

Fast forward to tomorrow night and Jay gets another shot at a prime time win with significant meaning....it's the biggest game of his head coaching career as far as his job security goes.

It wouldn't do much. We'd make the playoffs and then get kicked to the curb regardless. The Giants game a disgrace, and if couldn't beat them, it would have a bad playoff game and a sour ending to the season anyway.

[Burgold]

Monday night is a big test for Gruden not because of playoff implications, but because of how his teams always come off as flat and unprepared following bye-weeks, prime time games or half-byes. 

 

The skins in’s have had half a week more than the Eagles to come up with a plan and correct some weaknesses. 

 

Will we be sharp or blah?