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Voice_of_Reason

Evaluating Jay Gruden in 2018

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I saw one play that sums up the attitude of this team. It was a running play to the right 1st qtr. The WR on the Left at the snap of the ball just stood up and watched the play. The DB was in a crouch waiting for something..then he just stood up too...I don't know if it was Doctson or not..anybody else see that??? Wish I could watch the game and get a #

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Last week everything was roses and this week manure.  How about we keep our heads about things and see how things develop this season.  One surprisingly good game and 1 disappointing one is not much of a sample.  Our QB is just starting to work with his receivers lets give them a chance to develop together.

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Last week was all fun and games because we played a terrible team; this week Gruden looked like he had no answers.

 

Team was not prepared at all and no adjustments seemed to be made as the game went on.

 

Plenty of blame to go around between players and coaches for this one. I'm just worried that the reason of the season will be full of deer-in-the-headlights looks from Gruden on the sideline. I've said for a while we'll never win anything with him because I just don't think he's experienced enough or good enough overall but it is what it is.

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4 hours ago, -JB- said:

Josh Doctson has proven time and time again that he is very unreliable.  How many drops do you need to see?  Pryor only lasted one season.  When Maurice Harris is healthy Doctson should see the bench.

 

If we’re talking about firing people, don’t talk to me until Bruce Allen is fired and replaced with an actual General Manager.

 

I don't see how a guy who's played like 20 pro games can be said to prove something tima and again

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36 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

Last week everything was roses and this week manure.  How about we keep our heads about things and see how things develop this season.  One surprisingly good game and 1 disappointing one is not much of a sample.  Our QB is just starting to work with his receivers lets give them a chance to develop together.

You are so right but  As Redskins fans we know how this story ends.....  This isn't a good football team

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1 minute ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

You are so right but  As Redskins fans we know how this story ends.....  This isn't a good football team

 

I wasn't expecting a good team this year I was expecting a mediocre team and went with 9-7 in my prediction poll.  I got giddy like everyone else after the first game but I refuse to climb down into the pit of despair after 1 loss in week 2.  Right now the team in .500 let's see how things go this week.

11 minutes ago, carex said:

 

I don't see how a guy who's played like 20 pro games can be said to prove something tima and again

 Well said.  Doctson is still an unknown in only his second season, let's see how he does this year.

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1 minute ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

I wasn't expecting a good team this year I was expecting a mediocre team and went with 9-7 in my prediction poll.  I got giddy like everyone else after the first game but I refuse to climb down into the pit of despair after 1 loss in week 2.  Right now the team in .500 let's see how things go this week.

I'd be thrilled with a 9-7 season

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Just now, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

I'd be thrilled with a 9-7 season

 

The team has to improve to finish 9-7 but if they stay healthy and work at it I think they can do it.

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It's clear last week was more about the Cardinals being suck then anything the Redskins did.

 

Plenty of blame to go around. 

 

Manusky has an interesting philosophy for defense that consistently allows gashing runs right up the middle.

 

Norman is living off that 1 year in Carolina. Love watching him chase receivers from behind after 25 yd gains.

 

But it all goes back to Gruden. By year 5 you are what you are. Mediocre.

 

I would support a firing after the year if no playoffs. I would also support a firing during the year if yesterday is repeated a couple more times.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, DJD2 said:

It's clear last week was more about the Cardinals being suck then anything the Redskins did.

 

Plenty of blame to go around. 

 

Manusky has an interesting philosophy for defense that consistently allows gashing runs right up the middle.

 

Norman is living off that 1 year in Carolina. Love watching him chase receivers from behind after 25 yd gains.

 

But it all goes back to Gruden. By year 5 you are what you are. Mediocre.

 

I would support a firing after the year if no playoffs. I would also support a firing during the year if yesterday is repeated a couple more times.

 

 

 

Support a firing?  Gruden or Allen also?  All talking of firing is premature after 2 games and any sacking that doesn't include Allen is throwing out the baby and keeping the bath water.

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This is what is so maddening about Jay Gruden's teams since he's been here.  There is no consistency except for inconsistency. 

 

First, toss out 2014 entirely since I don't even know if the reincarnation of Vince Lombardi would have been able to make much of that train wreck.

 

2015, we had 1 winning streak of 4 games (a wining steak is 2 or more games).  That started on December 13th, and we won the final 4 games of the year to make the playoffs at 9-7

 

2016 we had the best stretch of his coaching tenure here, won 4 games, weeks 3 through 6, then won weeks 10 and 11, before losing 4 of the last 6, coming off of that Green Bay game, which might be the high-water mark for the team in terms of 1 game.

 

2017: we had one 2 game winning streak during the season before we were eliminated from playoff contention, weeks 2 and 3.

 

On a positive (?) note, we also don't have a lot of losing streaks, it's mostly win 1, lose 1, win 1, lose 2, win 2, lose 1... 

 

Evaluation based on the OP:

 

1. Quick start - Opening game great, but then lose badly in week 2. Put yourself in a tough situation for week 3 at home against a GB team that can score points.

2. Run game - It was good in week 1, terrible in week 2, and I have no idea what they were trying to do with the running game, it was so disjointed.  Fail.

3. End of half/game situations -  Nowhere near enough urgency at the end of the game. Fail.

4. Don't blow leads - well, you can't blow a lead when you never have one... N/A

5. Be aggressive with leads - clearly not applicable. N/A

6. No duds:  Yeah. This was a dud.  Fail

7. You are what your record says you are: 1-1.

 

For those of us who have been critical of Gruden for a while, this is exactly the reason why.  Good game, bad game.  Looks prepared one week, next week looks like they didn't practice.

 

Play calling was atrocious through much of the game, they didn't seem prepared for stunts on the OL.

 

I personally don't think that Jay maximizes the talent he is given, and certainly not consistently so.  There are worse HCs in the league, but more and more evidence points to Jay just not being a good enough HC to take a team deep into the playoffs, or win more than a few games in a row.

 

It's still early, but the problems we have seen for 4 years are still problems, minus winning week 1. 

 

The Bengals put up 34 points on the Colts in Indy.  We mustered 9 at home.  Indy isn't terrible, but they're not the mid-2000 Manning Colts. 

 

With this roster, this Redskins team, if well coached and prepared, should beat this Colt's team at home.  And the fact we came out flat with low energy and a bad game plan lies with Gruden more than anybody.

 

Overall grade: D-. 

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

Gruden or Allen also

 

You know as well as I do that Allen isn't going anywhere until Danny has his new stadium.

 

And yes I mean what I said. 

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1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

This is what is so maddening about Jay Gruden's teams since he's been here.  There is no consistency except for inconsistency

 

That sums it up perfectly.

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7 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Support a firing?  Gruden or Allen also?  All talking of firing is premature after 2 games and any sacking that doesn't include Allen is throwing out the baby and keeping the bath water.

As a Gruden critic, I've said for ages that if they don't move on from Allen, then Gruden should stay, because "meh" is the best we can expect from anything run by Allen, and the odds are much greater his next pick will be worse, not better. 

 

Allen has to go first.  Then you figure out what you do with Gruden.

 

Btw, I somewhat take issue that it's too early to have this debate.  It's not 2 games in.  It's 2 games into year 5 and nothing has changed. 

 

And while it's not ALL on Gruden, especially from a personnel perspective, there's plenty of coaching issues which you can hold him accountable for, even outside of thinking Doctson and Richardson were good enough on the outside (they're not, that was obvious, just like Doctson and Grant weren't going to be good enough last year.  Though this year's combo is better than last year's combo, so that's something.) I'll hold Allen responsible for the roster, but this roster is better than it played yesterday.  A lot better.  And that's on Gruden.

 

 

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A lot of you here think and hope for the best. While I commend you for that outlook you all need a dose of reality at times. Now is the time. The Redskins are suck.... mediocre suck at best which is a true reflection of this joke of a HC called Jay Gruden.
 
I know it is 2 games into the 2018 season, but so far the last 2 games have represented the EXACT same story as every season under Joke Gruden
  • Mediocre gameplanning, NO adjustments ever
  • Elementary play calls (big suckage at play calling)
  • Predictable patterns (when commentators state "here comes a screen on 3rd and long" you know the play calling sucks)
  • Lack of heart and GRIT when down in the score
  • No leadership for the team in keeping everyone level headed after a win or loss
  • Gives up when down (routinely takes off headset when 5 min left in the 4th quarter when losing -- happened again yesteday)

 

For all those making excuses for Joke Gruden saying that individuals need to play better, execute plan better, blah blah blah. Shut up and look at the larger picture. Joke Gruden has routinely exhibited the inability to adjust and get his team consistently ready for games through his ENTIRE HC regime. When his team is way ahead he coasts and often times let's the other team have a chance at a come back (NO KILLER MENTALITY -- big fat ****) and when he is down he stays down and just waits for it all to end. That game where we came back to beat the Bucs? OH yea that was Cousins 100% carrying this Joke of a HC on his back and making plays.
 
Year in and year out we expect something different. but this is insanity. This is the first season where Joke Gruden has what he wants in his team and everyone expected something so different. He has his checkdown QB who is overpaid to maintain mediocre games and lose lost games. Yet some of these skins fans here are heralding the 2nd coming of Dan Marino with his best downfield passing stats of 2017. Alex Smith is a JOKE - we know what he is (a checkdown **** who only sees the opposing team's players past 10 yeards). THIS is the QB Gruden wanted to lead his "field stretching" offense.
 
Lo and Behold NOTHING has changed. The team is now Gruden's completely in exactly how he wants it, yet it looks just like every other team under his HC tenure. Mediocre, dead, and boring. DEATH BY A THOUSAND CHECKDOWNS is not a god damn NFL offense.
It is time to cut our losses -- Fire Gruden and the entire staff, tank for a top 5 pick, draft a QB.
Look for a playoff team's young coordinator to hire as the next HC for the skins and plan to offload Checkdown Smith's contract and put him out to pasture.
 
We are going to go 5-11 AT BEST with how this team has performed both vs cards and the colts.
Wake up and smell the roses SHEEPLE -- FIRE GRUDEN and look to start over.
 
 
#FIREGRUDEN

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If we could fire Bruce Allen today then I 100% support that

If we could fire Daniel Snyder I also support that 100%

 

Yesterdays level of effort and being ready for the game was completely lacking. I listened to the post game JP Finley podcast and this was evident even to them there were issues before the game. JP said that two hours before the game the normal routein is to see the players come out in shorts and warm up. Yesterday that didn't happen for some reason. 

 

I can't put being up for a game on anyone else but the head coach. If he's not getting players hype to perform wtf is he doing before the game? The Colts came out for the game driving the ball down our throats for an opening drive resulting in a TD. The Redskins on the other hand looked bad except for that Crowder run. The whole offense looks scared right now, plays are being called in third and ten yards to go that have no chance to be successful with these 2 yard deep throws. The offense isn't in rhythm because of the way that Jay handles playing starters in the preseason. Not to mention the complete and total lack of second half adjustments or being smart enough to double even triple team the opposing players best guys. 

 

I've been a Jay Gruden supporter since he got here but these were things said about him before this year he hasn't shown the ability to either be flexible or improve. If he's never going to get better at something he struggles with then the rest of his time here will be very short

 

This team needs a players coach. Someone like Mike Tomlin. If the players stink up the joint like they did yesterday they know that they have to deal with coaches anger tomorrow. The players like playing for a drill sergeant because it keeps them interested. 

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30 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

If we could fire Bruce Allen today then I 100% support that

If we could fire Daniel Snyder I also support that 100%

 

Yesterdays level of effort and being ready for the game was completely lacking. I listened to the post game JP Finley podcast and this was evident even to them there were issues before the game. JP said that two hours before the game the normal routein is to see the players come out in shorts and warm up. Yesterday that didn't happen for some reason. 

 

I can't put being up for a game on anyone else but the head coach. If he's not getting players hype to perform wtf is he doing before the game? The Colts came out for the game driving the ball down our throats for an opening drive resulting in a TD. The Redskins on the other hand looked bad except for that Crowder run. The whole offense looks scared right now, plays are being called in third and ten yards to go that have no chance to be successful with these 2 yard deep throws. The offense isn't in rhythm because of the way that Jay handles playing starters in the preseason. Not to mention the complete and total lack of second half adjustments or being smart enough to double even triple team the opposing players best guys. 

 

I've been a Jay Gruden supporter since he got here but these were things said about him before this year he hasn't shown the ability to either be flexible or improve. If he's never going to get better at something he struggles with then the rest of his time here will be very short

 

This team needs a players coach. Someone like Mike Tomlin. If the players stink up the joint like they did yesterday they know that they have to deal with coaches anger tomorrow. The players like playing for a drill sergeant because it keeps them interested. 

Mike might be available after this year but some of the problems with Pittsburgh not getting back to the Supoerbowl are due to him.

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1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

As a Gruden critic, I've said for ages that if they don't move on from Allen, then Gruden should stay, because "meh" is the best we can expect from anything run by Allen, and the odds are much greater his next pick will be worse, not better. 

 

Allen has to go first.  Then you figure out what you do with Gruden.

 

Btw, I somewhat take issue that it's too early to have this debate.  It's not 2 games in.  It's 2 games into year 5 and nothing has changed. 

 

And while it's not ALL on Gruden, especially from a personnel perspective, there's plenty of coaching issues which you can hold him accountable for, even outside of thinking Doctson and Richardson were good enough on the outside (they're not, that was obvious, just like Doctson and Grant weren't going to be good enough last year.  Though this year's combo is better than last year's combo, so that's something.) I'll hold Allen responsible for the roster, but this roster is better than it played yesterday.  A lot better.  And that's on Gruden.

 

 

 

No one is going anywhere, and even if they did, what would change?  There's nothing in Snyder's 20 year track record as owner of this team to show that he is capable of making sound football decisions.  Quite the contrary: we know he isn't capable.  Gruden is the poster boy for mediocre head coaches who were promoted beyond their capabilities.  He's a nice guy, decent enough coordinator but nothing more.  He's not a head coach.  As you've said, the one constant with Gruden is his consistent inconsistency.  He's Norv Turner.  He's Jim Caldwell.  He's Jeff Fisher.  In short, he's part of the large fraternity of mostly mediocre head coaches in the NFL.  He's not the worst coach I've ever seen; and he wasn't Snyder's worst hire.  But he has limited upside, and we've seen the limits of what he can do.  If he stays or goes, I just don't know what matters anymore.  My fear is that we let a guy like Gruden go and then get a guy like Matt Patricia, who may not make it past the mid-season mark at this rate. Contrast that with Sean McVay--look at what he's done with the Rams.  Look at the difference between the Rams under Fisher and the Rams under McVay.  That's an example of great coaching.  Kills me that we let that guy leave the premises.  Shows you how incompetent Bruce Allen is.  What a joke this franchise is.  

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2 hours ago, carex said:

 

I don't see how a guy who's played like 20 pro games can be said to prove something tima and again

Well, if you play 20 games and in those 20 games you consistently drops catchable passes, I consider that time and time again.

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Gotta fire Allen asap and start the search for a new GM. This alone puts Gruden on notice that he's next if no playoffs. Attendance down 21,000 coupled with a 12 point loss to the Colts who are coached by a 1st year head coach has to mean curtains for Allen. I am embarrassed to be a Redskins fan today and am more into my fantasy football team than the Redskins now. I have no expectations as long as JG is the head coach and BA is the President/GM....

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I've wanted to support Jay but he makes it tough. Yesterday was a complete joke. Too often he is just too lackadaisical. I don't see us making the playoffs and unfortunately I think he gets fired. But it won't matter unless Uncle Bruce gets fired too,

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8 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Third season

I believe what @Veryoldschool meant is it’s his 2nd season in terms of starting/playing. His rookie year he played 2 games then missed the rest of the season, so yes, while this is his 3rd season in the nfl, it’s his 2nd year of starting. 

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15 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

I believe what @Veryoldschool meant is it’s his 2nd season in terms of starting/playing. His rookie year he played 2 games then missed the rest of the season, so yes, while this is his 3rd season in the nfl, it’s his 2nd year of starting. 

 

Yes, thanks that is what I was thinking.  

18 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

I believe what @Veryoldschool meant is it’s his 2nd season in terms of starting/playing. His rookie year he played 2 games then missed the rest of the season, so yes, while this is his 3rd season in the nfl, it’s his 2nd year of starting. 

 

Yes, thanks that is what I was thinking.  

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If Mike Tomlin can't win a Superbowl with the talent that Pittsburgh has, he won't be successful here. 

 

Talk about a guy who's poor game management gets in the way of playing up to their talent level.

 

Hard Pass no thanks.

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