bulldog Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Is Pat Gillick a good GM?<br /><br />Well, perhaps that can be gauged best in Baltimore by how far the Orioles franchise has fallen <br />since Gillick left.<br /><br />All of the team's major stars have left in free agency. That's Palmeiro, Alomar, Mussina, Wells,<br />etc.......<br /><br />Meanwhile what has the team replaced them with?<br /><br />For the most part, AAA players that have turned out to be borderline major leaguers.<br /><br />Whereas in most organizations the 'top' prospect is a player like a young Chipper Jones or Derek <br />Jeter that projects to 30 homers, 100 rbi's and a golden glove, for the Orioles that means players<br />like Roberts, Bigbie, Matos, Hairston, etc......that project to 10-15 homers, 40-50 rbi's and a batting<br />average between .240 and .275.<br /><br />Things don't get much better on the mound where one old pitcher Scott Erickson at 34 is coming back<br />from Tommy John surgery and another, Pat Hentgen, is going to miss the season to undergo his <br />own surgery.<br /><br />Meanwhile, younger pitchers Sidney Ponson and Josh Towers as well as staff 'ace' (10 wins!) Jason<br />Johnson were being shopped in the offseason for a bat or two to put in the lineup.<br /><br />I don't know about Syd Thrift's long-term plan (do they have one?) but it is an old axiom in baseball<br />that you never build successfully by trading starting pitching for batsmen.<br /><br />By the law of averages, there are more capable batters out there than starting caliber pitchers.<br /><br />Now, it is possible the Orioles' trio of Ponson, Towers and Johnson are simply not as good and don't have<br />the upside that management has maintained publicly that they do.<br /><br />And if we choose to believe that scenario then this team is firing almost as few bullets as the Devil<br />Rays and Expos, teams that if anyone has noticed, are on the block to be sold, moved or contracted. <img border="0" title="" alt="[smile]" src="smile.gif" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigchuck Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Bring on the Washington Senators! I stop rootin for the O's back in 95-96 when they fired Davey and blew up the team. It was obvious that Angelos didnt give a damn about putting a competetive product on the field for the city of B-more. As a Washingtonian I will pray for a baseball team. I hope its coming real soon like that car salesman said(Selig). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted January 23, 2002 Author Share Posted January 23, 2002 let's just hope this team has better mojo than the previous incarnations of the Senators.<br /><br />this team won ONE World Series in almost 70 years, back in the 1920's.<br /><br />let's also hope whoever purchases the team is a guy with deep pockets like Snyder but the patience and leadership qualities of JKC in his younger days with the Skins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 I think Angelos looked at how much money he could make by demanding compensation from MLB for putting a team in Washington (loss of seats and loss of cable outlets), and looked at how much he might get for the selling the O's, and decided that it might be a sellers market.<br /><br />I think the's decided that you can't compete with the Yanks and Braves from a cable perspective, there are too many regional teams fencing him in. The Phillies block him to the north and take away PA, ditto for the Steelers out west; there are probably as many Marylanders that live closer to Philly or Pittsburgh as there are living near Baltimore. Now, with a good chance for a team in Washington, his only cable market is the Baltimore area. <br /><br />He's been talking up being a small or mid market team for a while now, and nobody's really taken him seriously. But he might finally have decided that he can't make the kind of money he wants commensurate with the investment.<br /><br />So I think he's prepping for a sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeSkin Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Gotta give Orioles fans some credit, every game is sold out no matter how bad the team's record is. I went up to a game at Camdnen Yards last September, and it was packed. They beat the Yankees on a bottom of the ninth two out single, and the place went wild. Kind of nice to see fans so into it when their team's record is 30 games under .500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 I'd prefer to have the Marlins move to DC but the Expos moving here with DC's joint ownership here will make them a contender soon and putting pressure on the Mets and Braves before you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fuji869 Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Pat Gillick is a great GM, after he left the Orioles he came up to this part of the country and became the Seattle Mariner's GM. Gillick has worked wonders with that team by getting players like:<br /><br />Brett Boone, Mike Cameron (from the Griffey Trade)Arthur Rhodes (O's fans remember him), John Olerud, Jeff Nelson and of course the two Japanese Players Kazahiro Sasaki and Ichiro Suzuki.<br /><br />back-2-back ALCS Appearances and 116 Regular Season Wins, not back for a team that was once the door mat of the American League.<br /> <br /> [ January 23, 2002: Message edited by: fuji869 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Angelos is a disgrace plain and simple. He knows nothing about baseball and Thrift is nothing more than a lame duck "GM." (Orioles don't actually have a GM) All that talk this off-season of getting a #4 type hitter, a starting pitcher and a closer were such BS. An owner so unwilling to spend any money. The chance to land Scott Rolen was there. The chance for a true building block but Angelos doesn't want to commit money. This once proud franchise won't be a winner again till Angelos sells the team. <br />Ponson should be moved as should Hairston who has got the most off-balanced swing I've ever seen. Don't give up on Roberts so fast. He has a sweet swing, he's a switch hitter and last year was his first in the majors. I think he has the tools to be a .300+ hitter, with a high OBP and 30+ stolen bases.<br />All that being said, baseball is gonna self-destruct with these salaries. The Yanks pushing 140 million dollar payroll??!!!!!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangman55 Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 just to echo everyone`s thoughs...<br /><br />yes Gillick is the man...after he left the Blue Jays they have been mediocre at best to..<br /><br />In the inner circle Syd thrift is a joke... <br /><br />Angelos after being bite by the Big Name player (I take your money and don`t produce)bug,(Albert Bell ala Dieon sanders)is very tight now.<br /><br />Bulldog your right about my AAA players HR`s. Those 10-15 HR`s are going to be 11-16 HR`s now baby,because they just moved the plate 8 feet closer to the fenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 I actually think the future is bright for the Os. If DC does get a team, Angelos will get alot of money from the league in compensation. Coupe that with a low payroll and NO interest from his sons to run the team, Angelos will sell the team. (and make a boatload of money). The organization has the highest rated lower level farm system (below AAA) according to Baseball Weekly and just about every other publication. As long as they dont go out and do something stupid (Glenn Davis, Scott Rolen, Delino, Joey Belle etc) and let the youngsters play and pitch. They will be ready to make a run in the next 2 years. They got lucky with Belle, lets hope they dont need that kind of luck in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangman55 Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 Kilmer...Come on....Why did you have to mention Glen Davis. I think I`m going to be ill..<br /><br />P.S(anyone that doesn`t remember Glen(BIG BUST) Davis for Steve Finnley,Curt Shilling,and Pete harnish.)<br /> <br /> [ January 24, 2002: Message edited by: Hangman55 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 Dont forget we had to get rid of Mickey Tettleton as well to make room for Davis to play 1b and to pay his salary.<br /><br />Without a doubt, the single worst trade in Baseball history. (FYI, The Yanks bought the Babe, not a trade)<br /><br />The Orioles have had the talent over the years, they just dont keep it. Imagine if you will 3 years ago if we had.<br /><br />1- Raffy Palmeiro<br />2- Robbie Alomar<br />3- Cal<br />C- Charles Johnson<br />CF- Steve Finley<br />RF- Brady Anderson/Eric Davis<br />LF- Albert Belle<br />SS- anyone<br />P- Curt Schilling<br />P- Kevin Brown<br />P- Mike Mussina<br />P- Aaron Sele<br />P- David Wells<br />P- Jose Mesa<br />P- Arthur Rhodes<br />And a bench of McLemore, Hammonds, Surhoff,Anderson <br /><br />sigh..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins57 Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 I am glad the trade for Rolen fell apart, as a Phillies fan it will break my baseball heart to see him leave this season, if they are not gonna sign him(and they won't) they need to trade him and just not let the cornerstone of our team go for nothing. Phils had a great year last year but they will not go after anyone to improve this team. Sorry this is not a Phillies topic.<br />I think finally the O's have started to rebuild from within which is what they needed to do years ago.<br />I hope Washington gets a team as they will most likely be a national league team and I can go see my Phils without going near that Sh!thole in Philly<br />Hail Skins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangman55 Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 I`m not sure I follow, is the staduim in Philly a disgusting, foul ,sickening place or something.<br /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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