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NFL.com: Kirk Cousins tops biggest contracts (Special rule---you can refer to the Redskins in this thread---M.E.T.)

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35 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

Not sure if you're being sarcastic but... they can draft and trade and pick up free agents.  It doesn't need to be the Hogs, just needs to be league average.

No, I’m serious.  With Kirk’s big number, it does limit them.  They will have some finaglin’ to do that’s for sure.

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12 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I think there are special players who do that whether they play QB or another position but the argument here has always been is Kirk special.

 

There are very few QB's in the league that could have stepped into that job at Minnesota and maintained or raised the level of play that team had from last year, it was an unwinnable situation for a guy who's trying to find himself, a guy who comes off as super focused and ready for the challenge but deep down probably doubts himself.

 

I rarely look at other teams messageboards but I had to take a gander at some of the Vikes boards and they sound exactly like us when Alex was playing, Kirk is getting crushed and this will be a huge challenge for him to maintain his composure and finish out the season strong.

I don't know that I agree with that. The Vikings didn't really need a guy to play way over his head and at that much a higher level than last year. They are good enough, deep enough, and talented enough on both sides that they Kirk just had to be good. With that much talent, he didn't have to be a QB god for Minnesota to succeed. 

 

If the Vikings do not make it into the playoffs that team failed this year. They have become a worse team. We can argue about the degree to which Kirk is to blame for that decline, but just as the Ravens fell apart when they let Trent Dilfer leave... the Vikings, for this season, seem to have taken several steps back with the addition of Kirk Cousins.

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The Vikes had a 3rd string QB and a bad OL last year, and made an impressive playoff run. They should've dedicated that moolah to the line and other needs. They didn't need to throw $84 million guaranteed to Cousins. That was a colossal mistake. Should've devoted money to the line and kept Bridgewater. 

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1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

I think you are giving him too much credit. I think he was just that arrogant to think that he could just give him what he wanted to give him and Kirk would jump at it. 

 

 

 

I'm not so sure...he's not a good GM, but that doesn't make him simple. I think Bruce Allen is very likely a calculating individual. 

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6 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I'm not so sure...he's not a good GM, but that doesn't make him simple. I think Bruce Allen is very likely a calculating individual. 

 

Totally. Hes just out for number 1. 

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21 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I'm not so sure...he's not a good GM, but that doesn't make him simple. I think Bruce Allen is very likely a calculating individual. 

 

14 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Totally. Hes just out for number 1. 

 

I agree he is self centered and only out to save himself. The stupid press release was proof of that.

 

I just think he is more arrogant than calculating. 6 of one, half dozen of the other in the end probably.

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Fair enough...

 

In the end, my larger point was that the organization's screw-up with Cousins was not their assessment that he wasn't worth the $25-30M per year. Rather it was the fact that they didn't turn a homegrown, 4th-round, starting-caliber QB into multiple picks or players once it became clear he wouldn't stay here. 

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1 minute ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

Fair enough...

 

In the end, my larger point was that the organization's screw-up with Cousins was not their assessment that he wasn't worth the $25-30M per year. Rather it was the fact that they didn't turn a homegrown, 4th-round, starting-caliber QB into multiple picks or players once it became clear he wouldn't stay here. 

THAT is where I fault Cousins who led the team on until after the draft to show his true intention. Cousins didn't want to be traded. He wanted to pick his team and played his cards perfectly. Problem with that is that his talent didn't match his ego and he's feeling the effects now

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1 minute ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

THAT is where I fault Cousins who led the team on until after the draft to show his true intention. Cousins didn't want to be traded. He wanted to pick his team and played his cards perfectly. Problem with that is that his talent didn't match his ego and he's feeling the effects now

 

I'm sure he played a role in it, but he has no obligation to the organization. As the GM, one of Allen's jobs is to be close enough to his player and the negotiations to make a judgment call on it. He either complete misread the situation (bad) or knew what wasn't likely (worse). Either way, he failed in his handling of Cousins. 

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1 hour ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

Fair enough...

 

In the end, my larger point was that the organization's screw-up with Cousins was not their assessment that he wasn't worth the $25-30M per year. Rather it was the fact that they didn't turn a homegrown, 4th-round, starting-caliber QB into multiple picks or players once it became clear he wouldn't stay here. 

 

I 100% agree with this. Not sure anyone thinking rationally would disagree. Ok, you don't want to pay him, get something for him! Plan ahead! See it coming and prepare properly! 

 

But that's also why I think it was more arrogance than calculation. He was so sure he could "make" Kirk sign, he never gave any other reality and consideration until it was too late. 

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2 hours ago, Burgold said:

I don't know that I agree with that. The Vikings didn't really need a guy to play way over his head and at that much a higher level than last year. They are good enough, deep enough, and talented enough on both sides that they Kirk just had to be good. With that much talent, he didn't have to be a QB god for Minnesota to succeed. 

 

If the Vikings do not make it into the playoffs that team failed this year. They have become a worse team. We can argue about the degree to which Kirk is to blame for that decline, but just as the Ravens fell apart when they let Trent Dilfer leave... the Vikings, for this season, seem to have taken several steps back with the addition of Kirk Cousins.

That's ok, its just my opinion, my point is how many teams can duplicate back to back trips to the conference championship game, look at Philly, they won't even make the playoffs and they have their stud QB back and they are coming off a Superbowl victory.

 

Too much can go wrong from one year to the next and we don't really know if the Vikes were that good to begin with, go look at their record over the last 10 years, lots of inconsistency from year to year when it comes to wins and losses.

 

2009 12-4
2010 6-10
2011 3-13
2012 10-6
2013 5-10
2014 7-9
2015 11-5
2016 8-8
2017 13-3
2018 6-6-1

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9 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Curios who you rooted for in the Super Bowl.  Between NE and Philly, it was a struggle for me.  My hate is strong for both of them.

 

I hate the Pats, but I rooted against the Eagles in the SB. Must continue with the trophy memes. Didn't feel too bad since the Pats lost. :P

 

6 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

The Alex trade was its own terrible act of desperation by Bruce and it negates any perceived foresight by the FO when it comes to the talent level and value of Kirk.

 

One of the many reasons, but to me a big one, why Allen MUST GO.

 

5 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Kirk playing like doo doo shouldn't vindicate Bruce or save his job.

 

I feel no matter what Kirk does, it wouldn't mean anything to Snyder as far as Bruce is concerned. If Snyder really felt Cousins was the franchise, he'd be playing here on a 3 year $90M GRNTD contract. If Snyder really wants a coach or QB, and they agree to the contract, they would be here. Snyder agreed with Allen. But we still need a GM.

Edited by BleedBNG
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9 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

That's ok, its just my opinion, my point is how many teams can duplicate back to back trips to the conference championship game, look at Philly, they won't even make the playoffs and they have their stud QB back and they are coming off a Superbowl victory.

Entirely fair.

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5 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Can we pee on Kirk and pee on Bruce in separate threads?  Don't cross the streams. 🤣

 

The media has eviscerated Cousins today.  Just brutal.  Gonna get worse I think.

And sadly I don't think he has the mental makeup to handle it. I may actually start to feel bad for the guy...

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3 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

And sadly I don't think he has the mental makeup to handle it. I may actually start to feel bad for the guy...

 

Naw he is absolutely gonna kill one of his next two opponents. 

 

Well, I say that discounting the effect of losing his OC and the drama in the locker room. I never really felt like the Vikings players liked him. And I doubt this helps any. He doesnt seem like the type to use this as an us against the world type motivation either. 

 

But he has a habit of swinging back ONLY when he is being crushed in the media. That ego is powerful. 

 

You like that game says hi

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5 hours ago, skinzplay said:

The Vikes had a 3rd string QB and a bad OL last year, and made an impressive playoff run. They should've dedicated that moolah to the line and other needs. They didn't need to throw $84 million guaranteed to Cousins. That was a colossal mistake. Should've devoted money to the line and kept Bridgewater. 

 

They may have come out better if they did that.  But, they may also have had the same result that the Jags have had by trying to build around a below average QB.  It has been a while since anyone has looked at Bridgewater as a starter.  Kirk has had several games where he has looked bad, but the Vikings D carried them last year, and they have had a big drop off.  I don't think Keenum or Bridgwater would have them in the playoff hunt this year, but It is clear that Cousins has not taken them to "the next level".  

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This guy is NOT happy lol...(may have to go to youtube to watch, ES doesn't seem to be auto-embedding videos right now)

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVCtJt3sm04

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4 hours ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

THAT is where I fault Cousins who led the team on until after the draft to show his true intention. Cousins didn't want to be traded. He wanted to pick his team and played his cards perfectly. Problem with that is that his talent didn't match his ego and he's feeling the effects now

 

I don't really feel that Kirk led the team on.  He didn't outright demand to be let go, but he also was fairly vague when asked about staying.  From the outside looking in, I thought he wanted out based on what he did NOT say about staying in Washington.  Most franchise QBs will say things like.. "I want to be here, they want me to be here... I'm pretty sure we will come to an agreement on this.  We all want the same thing".  Kirk was pretty open about wanting to look at other options, and being fine with playing on a franchise tag until that could happen.

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Guys, I'm worried about Kirk's #1 fan...Vos, I think he's just busy trying to study film right now, don't give up!

 

9Dpl.gif

 

 

 

 

For all the **** I give Kirk Cousins and his #1 stan, I am going to start to feel a touch bad for Kirk if this keeps up.  But more importantly, he just needs to weather the storm.  As pointed out in the last several posts, things can change quickly in the NFL. 

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10 hours ago, Nerm said:

 

They may have come out better if they did that.  But, they may also have had the same result that the Jags have had by trying to build around a below average QB.  It has been a while since anyone has looked at Bridgewater as a starter.  Kirk has had several games where he has looked bad, but the Vikings D carried them last year, and they have had a big drop off.  I don't think Keenum or Bridgwater would have them in the playoff hunt this year, but It is clear that Cousins has not taken them to "the next level".  

 

The Vikings defense has been playing much better after an early rough start. I doubt those other options would be playing much better with the offense as constructed, but they could have more cap space to invest in talent around them.

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14 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

That's ok, its just my opinion, my point is how many teams can duplicate back to back trips to the conference championship game, look at Philly, they won't even make the playoffs and they have their stud QB back and they are coming off a Superbowl victory.

 

Too much can go wrong from one year to the next and we don't really know if the Vikes were that good to begin with, go look at their record over the last 10 years, lots of inconsistency from year to year when it comes to wins and losses.

 

2009 12-4
2010 6-10
2011 3-13
2012 10-6
2013 5-10
2014 7-9
2015 11-5
2016 8-8
2017 13-3
2018 6-6-1

 

I think I mentioned something similar to this before the season started. Cousins and the Vikings were screwed from Day 1 because the perception wasn't reality. Let's look at some items (you touched on a lot of them)...

 

13-win seasons simply aren't duplicated very often. Even the Patriots have only followed up a 13+ win season with another one 3 different times over this 17-year run of dominance. So, there was always going to be a regression in Minnesota. Secondly, the Vikings were just flat-out lucky to even win in the Divisional round last year. People forget that the narrative in Minnesota would have been completely different if that Saints rookie DB just simply pushed Diggs after he caught that pass. Outside of that single play, the Vikings played a HORRIBLE final 6 quarters to their season. 

 

But, as I also mentioned before the season started...I took a childish pleasure in knowing that this would be pinned to Cousins. Mostly because I think he was being overrated as well. Essentially you had a million casual fans overrating a team and a player and thinking that because they were joining forces the Vikings could pencil themselves into the NFC Championship Game again. I couldn't wait for this predictable result!

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He deserved it as far as I'm concerned. And he quite literally asked for it. So everyone wins. 

 

This Cousins thing really reaffirms my position that you just cant pay a guy that much unless you KNOW hes the last piece you need. I would rather draft a guy every year than pay one that much unless I know hes Tom or Rodgers. 

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5 hours ago, Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin said:

 

For all the **** I give Kirk Cousins and his #1 stan, I am going to start to feel a touch bad for Kirk if this keeps up.  But more importantly, he just needs to weather the storm.  As pointed out in the last several posts, things can change quickly in the NFL. 

 

 

I agree. I still expect the Vikings to win 2 of their last 3 (if not all 3). The Dolphins have a winning record but it doesn't seem legit, so it could be Cousins' only win against a winning team this season. They can take the Lions, and depending upon the home field scenarios, the Bears may not have a lot of motivation to win in week 17. A record of 8-7-1 could get them into the playoffs--and to say what always seems to be said in connection to any success the Skins ever get, the Vikings would back into the playoffs only because the NFC was in a "down year" lol....

Edited by Califan007

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15 minutes ago, Llevron said:

He deserved it as far as I'm concerned. And he quite literally asked for it. So everyone wins. 

 

This Cousins thing really reaffirms my position that you just cant pay a guy that much unless you KNOW hes the last piece you need. I would rather draft a guy every year than pay one that much unless I know hes Tom or Rodgers. 

3

 

Pretty much, yeah (part in bold). Back when the narrative was "You have to pay top dollar merely for competence at the QB position, Bruce Allen and the Redskins don't realize that! Kirk Cousins is gonna change the way teams sign players from here on out, he's doing this not just for himself but for all future free agents!", I said the opposite is just as likely--that Cousins could turn into the free agent version of Sam Bradford and cause teams to rethink the "Free agent franchise QB at any cost" mentality as well as rethink the pros and cons of fully guaranteed contracts. His signing could end up sending the pendulum back the other way instead of being some sort of pioneer in how free agent contracts will be handled for the next century.

 

But much of the Kirk love going around was really Bruce hate...Cousins became the conduit to express how incompetent people felt Allen was. I'm just happy to see the Vikings/Cousins lovefest in the media take a serious break for a bit lol...how many OCs has Zimmer burned through over the last 3 years, now?...Four different offensive coordinators, I think? 

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