zskins

NFL.com: Kirk Cousins tops biggest contracts (Special rule---you can refer to the Redskins in this thread---M.E.T.)

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Kirk had Perine and Fat Rob leading the way at RB (both out of the league) not Adrian Peterson.    Kirk had no defense or running game leading the way for him.  He was the lead dance when he was here.  I think the dude would have been better with the roster we got now.  And if anyone says well we wouldn't have had a roster like that with what he got paid.  Well, we are paying more as is at QB than we would have for Kirk.  And I never bought the premise that it was 27 million or bust for Kirk anyway but playing along with that, we are paying over 30 million at that spot anyway.

 

I've said many times my interest in Kirk since he left is purely about Bruce.  And at least in my mind, I am taking a victory lap on that front.  And Kirk I got no doubt in my mind contributed to Bruce's demise and consternation for Dan.  So thanks Kirk and an even bigger nod to Trent for showing how he handled Kirk wasn't an anomaly. 

 

I know we got some Kirk detractors who defend Bruce on his actions here and suggest Kirk was a greedy mercenary (I've argued with them plenty and don't feel like doing it again but I'll just say I've digested enough info that makes me think they are wrong but there is plenty of nuance on that discussion) but judging by the board, twitter, talk radio, etc, that group is a minority with most thinking he botched it and it was added to the pile and in some people's cases even instigated the FireBruce movement.    I can elaborate on Bruce's other missteps that related to the aftermath of Kirk that led to his demise but we all know what they were.   But the Kirk handling to me helped set off the dominos that led us here. 

 

I was at the game in NO ironically sitting around Saints fans where Kirk and Brees were going toe for toe and they lost in overtime.  The next year with him gone we got smoked by NO if you guys recall.  The NO fans around me where saying dude you guys really have a good QB.  I recall posting that at the time.  The team was running on fumes then because we had a zillion injuries and they lost Thompson in the game which seemed to break the damm so to speak. 

 

I was at the game when Kirk led the comeback against Philly in 2015 so I knew he had it in him.  He was 2nd or something like that in 4th quarter comebacks one year.  But he's clearly struggled on prime time TV and also against top defenses.  So It's good to see him take a step up.  Some celebrating I noticed about it on some of the NFL shows (Fox last night), GMF today -- I would guess some of that is Kirk being considered by most a really good dude.  As I mentioned I've met him multiple times, seemed like a really good dude to me, too.  So did Haskins ironically.   

 

I understood the shots at Kirk for not rising to the occasion at key spots.  But I always disagreed with the stats hit where the implication was look any dude could put up gaudy stats like that it's easy and meaningless.  It's not like hey Patrick Ramsey was top 5 in all these QB categories, too.  And hey Jason Campbell could put up 4000 yards and 30 TDs in a blink of an eye so thereby so what.  😁  Part of what I liked about Kirk was when he was here is it felt like we had a shot at beating anyone.  Yeah it didn't always work that way but it was a novel feeling at least for me after having really bad QB play for a long-long time with a rare exception.  

 

Sheehan saying on the radio today that he knows for a fact that it bothers Bruce to no end if Kirk succeeds -- its personal.  Ditto with Bruce-Dan about Kyle.  So this playoff game coming up is a nightmare for them.  Hopefully Rivera's class and integrity rubs off on Dan because he needs it. 😀

 

Hopefully Haskins ends the merry-go-around at the QB spot.  I got some faith he can do it.  And like Kirk, Haskins comes off to me like a good dude.  So hopefully his ride is smoother here.    I got almost no doubt that Bruce and Kirk really really didn't like each other.  So for Bruce to get unceremoniously canned and Kirk to help win a big playoff game in the span of about a week -- which is more playoff wins than Bruce's whole tenure here which is zero -- I think you got some fun karma cooking there. 

 

 

Screen Shot 2020-01-06 at 7.33.40 AM.png

Edited by Skinsinparadise
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, No Excuses said:

Cherry picking a 6-3 start to make your point is silly.

 

It's also amusing because "we were 6-3-1" in 2016 and the team was "6-3" in 2008...and nobody points to those years as evidence of some amazing 'what could have been' season.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He finally did it. Kudos. Now, assuming the Vikes lose to the 49'rs...does Kirk 2020 extension negotiation ceiling rise or drop after one clutch performance against a good team. (not accounting for another PI controversy against the saints). I didn't watch the game..so I'll look at the replays today to see if it was a legit call. Remember..he still hasn't matched Keenam's record

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its not impossible Kirk improved in the last few years. Or that the wrap on him was true until he proved it wrong. I mean, lets not be silly here. He has played poorly in big moments wayyyyyyyy more than hes played well. This is just true. Its not like people are making it up. 

 

The fact is that hes good enough to win with if he has a good cast surrounding him. Hes not if things arnt working well. Nothing wrong with that. He is at his best when hes throwing to Desean Jackson, Pierre Garcon, Jordan Reed, Vernon Davis, Adam Theilin, Diggs and Rudolph. Nothing wrong with that. Most are. The problem he has always had was - when thats not enough, then what? Or when that doesn't exist, then what? And if you cant step up are you worth it? 

 

He stepped up. So I guess he is at the moment worth it. Hes got another game next week, we will see what he does. I suspect that one game will not make his career. And given the energy in this thread every other week, I suspect you all know that too lol

Just now, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

He finally did it. Kudos. Now, assuming the Vikes lose to the 49'rs...does Kirk 2020 extension negotiation ceiling rise or drop after one clutch performance against a good team. (not accounting for another PI controversy against the saints). I didn't watch the game..so I'll look at the replays today to see if it was a legit call. Remember..he still hasn't matched Keenam's record

 

That call really doesnt matter he played well that last drive and he put them in position to win it regardless. But honestly is was a good no call. You cant take the game away on a review like that and live it didnt look like anything other than the defender giving up on the play to me. 

 

Im super interested to see what they do contract wise with him. I think it would be the smart play for him to give them a home town discount cause if they keep the band together they could do this or better every year honestly. 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

It's also amusing because "we were 6-3-1" in 2016 and the team was "6-3" in 2008...and nobody points to those years as evidence of some amazing 'what could have been' season.


There is also a lot of amnesia regarding Alex Smith and how he was playing. His last 5 games, he had 1 game throwing over 200 yards, zero games with multiple TDS and a TD/INT split of 5/3. He was bad and barely managing games. 

15 minutes ago, Llevron said:

The problem he has always had was - when thats not enough, then what? Or when that doesn't exist, then what? And if you cant step up are you worth it? 

 

“Kirk is good but not great, therefore he’s terrible” is the line of thinking many of you seem to follow. The idea that a QB, if he’s not Tier 1 elite, is not worth keeping is bat **** bananas.

Edited by No Excuses
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Llevron said:

That call really doesnt matter he played well that last drive and he put them in position to win it regardless. But honestly is was a good no call. You cant take the game away on a review like that and live it didnt look like anything other than the defender giving up on the play to me. 

Not only that, but the refs were letting the teams play all day long.  There was grabbing both ways all day on both sides without laundry hitting the field, which is the way I prefer to watch football.  Not calling that OPI was consistent with how the game was reffed all day long.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

“Kirk is good but not great, therefore he’s terrible” is the line of thinking many of you seem to follow. The idea that a QB, if he’s not Tier 1 elite, is not worth keeping is bat **** bananas.

 

Just because I dont agree with you 100% that this guy is great doesn't mean that i think hes terrible. I have said he is good enough to win with constantly for like 2 years now. You come off as so invested in his personal success you cant even have a rational argument when you quote me and make up a trash argument like this. 

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Not only that, but the refs were letting the teams play all day long.  There was grabbing both ways all day on both sides without laundry hitting the field, which is the way I prefer to watch football.  Not calling that OPI was consistent with how the game was reffed all day long.

 

Playoff football is more physical and the Saints - of all team - know that. Thats how they won it those years ago. I remember people complaining about what they were getting away with. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I can't believe people are still talking about Bruce, my god, time to move on. LOL

 

 

Edited by JSSkinz
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Do you hate Cousins succeeding because it makes Bruce Allen look like an even bigger idiot for trading and extending Alex Smith?

 

I'm not sure if this post or the other post in the other Cousins thread is more idiotic lol...it's close.

 

 

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

With Reed, the concussion he got this season wasn't his fault but he already had a ton of concussions s it added to the pile.  Wentz's situation on that front different.  Sometimes, you can just be unlucky.  For example, Guice is now labeled by most as injury prone and we can't trust him now but his last injury was a dude who just hit him in his knee with his helmet.  So luck sometimes weighs in.  Wentz has had his shares of injuries don't get me wrong but tough for me to give him a hard time for that one. 

 

For me, it's irrelevant why the injuries occur...when they occur with such regularity, it stops being a surprise when they occur again. That was my point in my original post lol...

Edited by Califan007
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, No Excuses said:


The denial of reality is amazing.
 

We have been over this before. Alex Smith was not a suitable replacement for Kirk and a replacement for Smith, likely through the draft, in the following year would have been warranted. Before he was hurt, he was playing like a below average QB and there was already frustration building with his dink and dunk nonsense. 
 

Cherry picking a 6-3 start to make your point is silly. We had an entire seasons worth of evidence this season that this team was really bad, that the hot start from the previous season was an overachieving team and that none of the QBs, including Alex Smith, have been able to replace Kirk’s production at the position. The 10-22 record since Kirk’s departure speaks for itself.
 

Extremely silly argument. No one is saying that we lost Tom Brady in his prime. But we did lose a good player, who made this team better and every shred of evidence, our record and the performance of all of his replacements, points to the fact that we are worse without him.

 

You really need to work on keeping your focus on which argument you're debating. I'll help you out:

 

"Kirk likely was the difference between a 4-5 win team and elevated it a roughly 7-8 win team." - You, up above earlier.

 

Here's a hint: your post did not say that Kirk was a better QB than Smith. So my reponse to your post--wait for it--was not that Smith was better or even the same level as Kirk. zit was never part of the discussion until you inserted it in just now under the false claim that it was my point.

 

I responded to the idea you mentioned that the Skins only reached the heights of mediocrity due to Kirk Cousins, and that the team's record after he left is evidence of that. I immediately saw all the logic flaws in that stance and pointed them out...and showed why the far more logical conclusion to make is that the Skins are a mediocre team that a wide range of NFL QBs could steer to 7 or 8 wins...but also a team that can sink to 3-4 wins when the QB play is gawd awful and the head coach position is on shaky ground.

 

And all the facts back me up.

 

When the Skins had stability at the QB position, the QB production was not head-scratchingly bad, and the head coach wasn't fearing being fired, the Skins went 9-7, 8-7-1, 7-9, 7-9, and 6-3. Yes, Alex Smith's time as starter fits the description I just said, so it gets included. Also, you may want to refresh your memory as to what constitutes "cherry-picking"...cuz it doesn't seem as if you quite understand the term.

 

When there was instability at the QB position, the QB production was indeed awful, and the head coach's job was on the line, the Skins went 4-19.

 

It's far more accurate to say that the Skins were a mediocre 7-8 win team that Kirk could NOT elevate to a consistent 9-10 win team...his time in Minny also shows this. When the Vikings were mediocre in the run game and even surprisingly on defense, they were 8-7-1 with Kirk. Even having Diggs and Thielen--much like having Garcon, Jackson, and Reed--didn't lead to raising the team past its mediocrity. Now that the Vikings are above average in the run game and on defense, they are a 10-win team. Kirk's play didn't elevate the team, the team elevated Kirk.

 

Other people are gonna read my post and understand what I'm saying. I have no doubt that you won't...because you haven't done so yet.

 
 
 
 
2 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

It's also amusing because "we were 6-3-1" in 2016 and the team was "6-3" in 2008...and nobody points to those years as evidence of some amazing 'what could have been' season.

 

Who does that now?...The part in bold?

 

I have heard people point to the incredibly massive amount of player injuries affecting how the season played out...did we experience the same level of injuries in 2016 and 2008?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
 
 
 
1 hour ago, No Excuses said:

“Kirk is good but not great, therefore he’s terrible” is the line of thinking many of you seem to follow. The idea that a QB, if he’s not Tier 1 elite, is not worth keeping is bat **** bananas.

 

Allow me to introduce you to another term, one I'm guessing you do understand since you're doing quite a job of it here lol...strawman argument.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

For me, it's irrelevant why the injuries occur...when they occur with such regularity, it stops being a surprise when they occur again. That was my point in my original post lol...

 

You have to wonder at this point, no matter how talented Wentz is considered, if he can do it. Yesterday was the first playoff game he has ever played in and the Eagles have been in the playoffs for the last 3 seasons in a row. And he was knocked out of it. Regardless of how or why they happen to him, they happen and its a trend now. Sucks (not really cause I hate the Eagles more than any other team) but thems the breaks. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
 
 
1
2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

You have to wonder at this point, no matter how talented Wentz is considered, if he can do it. Yesterday was the first playoff game he has ever played in and the Eagles have been in the playoffs for the last 3 seasons in a row. And he was knocked out of it. Regardless of how or why they happen to him, they happen and its a trend now. Sucks (not really cause I hate the Eagles more than any other team) but thems the breaks. 

 

Ooooh, bad choice of words lol...

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

And all the facts back me up.


They really don’t. This team has averaged 5 wins a season since his departure. Your entire argument hinges on a small 9 game sample size. 
 

Ultimately, one team saw him as a good QB who can lead them to the playoffs and help them compete. They have since been proven right. The other team made the assumption that his production is replaceable and the team can compete without him. They have been proven wrong.

 

Your entire point is that, “well for 9 games they were competing without him”, which is true. It’s unfortunate that the NFL season is 16 games long and that the 2019 season happened. Perhaps you’ll join us in 2020 soon.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We need to add "Alex Smith: 6-3" to the Ring of Fame as soon as possible. The injury/what if situation on this board is like Uncle Rico back in '82.

  • Haha 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kirk made a couple incredible clutch throws at the end yesterday. If he does this twice in a row, then I'll rethink my attitude about him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

I can't believe people are still talking about Bruce, my god, time to move on. LOL

 

 

 

I think it's an ironic point though to make on this thread.  Bruce has been gone for a little over a week and its still fresh in the news to a degree.  Kirk has been gone for 2 seasons now, yet he's a constant conversation topic on this thread for much of that time.   Time to move on I think is a much more apt point relating to Kirk especially in a thread that's devoted to Kirk.   I am not saying that's how it should be.  To each their own on what floats their boat.  It's their business.  

 

I don't post much on this thread.  The rare times i have done so, I mentioned that my interest in Kirk is purely in the context of Bruce.  So you bet I am going to post a week after Bruce gets canned and Kirk helps take the Vikings to the playoffs and wins a playoff game.  You probably won't hear much from me again on the topic if it all after this.  But you bet I'll have something to say with those two things converging almost at the same time.   😀

 

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I dont think I've seen a player live in people's heads this much in a long time.  You could almost do a 30 for 30 just on the football world's fascination with/hatred of Kirk Cousins.  It really is kinda interesting to watch.

Edited by justice98
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, justice98 said:

I dont think I've seen a player live in people's heads this much in a long time.  You could almost do a 30 for 30 just on the football world's fascination with/hatred of Kirk Cousins.  It really is kinda interesting to watch.

 

I hate him mostly because it pisses people off. What does that make me? 

 

*dont answer. Im not prepared to face my reality just yet*

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there a way to put whole threads on 'ignore'.  These Kirk threads are like train wrecks that I can't look away from.  I keep telling myself I'm going to ignore them and yet here I am reading them again.  😖

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, justice98 said:

I dont think I've seen a player live in people's heads this much in a long time.  You could almost do a 30 for 30 just on the football world's fascination with/hatred of Kirk Cousins.  It really is kinda interesting to watch.

What does it make me, if i cheer for him and the Vikings since i dont hate him? Me, i understand that sports is a business and unfortunately it just didn’t work out here in DC. That’s not going to make me hate the guy or wish him the worst. If he succeeds, good for him, and the Vikings. Happy for him/them :D 

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, profusion said:

Kirk made a couple incredible clutch throws at the end yesterday. If he does this twice in a row, then I'll rethink my attitude about him.

No, then you'll just require a 3rd or maybe a 4th.   :)

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, SkinFanInMinn said:

Is there a way to put whole threads on 'ignore'.  These Kirk threads are like train wrecks that I can't look away from.  I keep telling myself I'm going to ignore them and yet here I am reading them again.  😖

 

You ****ing love this **** just like the rest of us lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

No, then you'll just require a 3rd or maybe a 4th.   :)

 

Nah, I'm fairly easygoing. I'd be impressed if he gets past whatever mental hang-up causes him to choke. One more big win like yesterday should do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.