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NFL.com: Kirk Cousins tops biggest contracts (Special rule---you can refer to the Redskins in this thread---M.E.T.)

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1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Rodgers being healthy changes things up immensely for them.  So I don't disagree that they can't just be counted on to repeat the same level of success they had last season.  At the same time, I do like the offseason they had and on paper - appear to be a better team.

 

I agree there. 

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12 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Redskins fans would be griping that he should have hit him better leading to a touchdown. :rofl89:

 

Or Superbowl or bust. :D  My thing on the SB or bust thing what does that say about our FO.  The Vikings and Redskins were in the same predicament when Zimmer took over their team and Jay took over the Redskins.   The Vikings can build up their roster so fast that anything less than a SB is a disappointment and for Alex just squeeing into the playoffs is an equally impressive feat.  If so, that's one heck of an indictment on our FO.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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I am not a cousins fan but this is one of those few times i am kind of curious/interested in following a former skin to another team and seeing how things go with minn..true,  minn is a team i have always kind of liked in the background (only ever a real fan of one team)...as kid i was a big fan of the purple people eaters--of course, the song was of my era lol---and killer carl ellis (the name and his story) and enjoyed the hell out of fran tarkenton etc. etc.

 

in more recent times i just find the whole nfc central one of the more interesting divisions because of their history, competitiveness, and my generational connection to some great teams/players to glory years for those franchises  

 

that minn is so stocked with talent overall, that i like zimmer as a coach, seeing if kirk really can succeed at the top (curiosity on my analysis, not fanhood) and play even 'better" than here, i may make an actual effort to watch some of their games this year

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15 hours ago, Stadium-Armory said:

Cousins looked real sharp.

 

Yep...looked damn near as good as Colt McCoy did *thumbsup*...

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Just 1 series but clearly a good start.   After 6 years in Snyder's soap opera, Kirk must feel he is in heaven.   Everything is brand new in Minnesota including the stadium and entire training complex and the team is harmonious and loaded with talent.  I think I am really going to enjoy following Kirk and my second team this season.  I hope he kills it.

 

It was also strange that the Vikings were playing the Bronco's.  Case Keenum had a rough start, it had to be a tough day for him and the Denver fans.

Edited by Veryoldschool

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Or Superbowl or bust. :D  My thing on the SB or bust thing what does that say about our FO.  The Vikings and Redskins were in the same predicament when Zimmer took over their team and Jay took over the Redskins.   The Vikings can build up their roster so fast that anything less than a SB is a disappointment and for Alex just squeeing into the playoffs is an equally impressive feat.  If so, that's one heck of an indictment on our FO.

2

 

That's gonna depend on how you define "same predicament"...because there were a LOT of siginficant differences between the 2014 Vikings and the 2014 Redskins, not the least of which was the Skins had to dig itself out from a severely unfair cap penalty over the prior two years.

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just for the record, i sure as **** ain't interested in actually posting about kirk or minn as the season goes on :ols:

 

i don't have any emotional connection to what happens in minn---i also have nothing against kirk, if he gets a ring, great, as long as he isn't beating redskins for it---just want to see how it informs my analysis, and it could be a fun year to watch with that division being a particularly interesting one this year

 

i'm down with new kirk :ols:

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For those who want to see his 4 throws, NFL.com has them here.  It's funny because he looked a lot like he did for us, 3 solid but not flashy throws that anyone can make and then 1 dime to Diggs, Diggs made a great play.

 

Look on the right for "every throw by Kirk in week 1"

https://www.nfl.com/videos/highlights

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The Vikes should be good but I see them winning 10 or 11 games and not steamrolling people like they did last year and none of that has anything to do with Kirk, its just the way football works.

 

Remember only 4 teams who made the playoffs in 2016 made it in 2017.

 

History and data tell us 2-6 of these playoff teams from last year won't make it this year, we just don't know who it will be but there will be some surprises and at least 1 of those "no-brainers" will probably fail.

 

2017 Playoff Teams - Who's Gonna **** The Bed Edition:

 

New England Patriots?
Pittsburgh Steelers?
Philadelphia Eagles?
Minnesota Vikings?
Jacksonville Jaguars?
Los Angeles Rams?
Kansas City Chiefs?
New Orleans Saints?
Tennessee Titans?
Carolina Panthers?
Buffalo Bills?
Atlanta Falcons?

Edited by JSSkinz

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Yeah, and any team can catch the injury bug and a Super Bowl contender can end up limping to a 6-10 record.  That said, I like their chances with Cousins and those receivers a couple of decent running backs and a great defense.

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53 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

For those who want to see his 4 throws, NFL.com has them here.  It's funny because he looked a lot like he did for us, 3 solid but not flashy throws that anyone can make and then 1 dime to Diggs, Diggs made a great play.

 

Look on the right for "every throw by Kirk in week 1"

https://www.nfl.com/videos/highlights

 

 

That throw and catch were nasty lol...

 

Speaking of ex-QBs, Griffin had a rather nice TD throw as well against the Rams, although against 3rd stringers.

Edited by Califan007

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1 minute ago, Califan007 said:

 

That throw and catch were nasty lol...

 

Speaking of ex-QBs, Griffin had a rather nice TD throw as well against the Rams, although against 3rd stringers.

I think Griffen has looked pretty good in the first 2 games, definitely serviceable as a backup.


I didn't see him play in game 2 but in the 1st game I watched him stand in the pocket without getting happy feet or bailing out and he delivered some nice passes, if he can continue to develop that part of his game then who knows what could happen with him.

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I think Griffen has looked pretty good in the first 2 games, definitely serviceable as a backup.


I didn't see him play in game 2 but in the 1st game I watched him stand in the pocket without getting happy feet or bailing out and he delivered some nice passes, if he can continue to develop that part of his game then who knows what could happen with him.

 

 

 

 

I only saw the highlights of both Ravens games... I didn't see the Vikings game, either lol.

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3 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Redskins fans would be griping that he should have hit him better leading to a touchdown. :rofl89:

 

Well now that you have brought it up... the first thing that crossed my mind was that it was a tad bit over thrown, the same he did here. I mean you can't have Kirk if he doesn't, now can we. 

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1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

That's gonna depend on how you define "same predicament"...because there were a LOT of siginficant differences between the 2014 Vikings and the 2014 Redskins, not the least of which was the Skins had to dig itself out from a severely unfair cap penalty over the prior two years.

 

It's not lost on me that the Vikings FA does IMO everything well.  Sometimes on the FA thread when people get into FO debates IMO it can turn lazy when the macro discussion goes micro as if its just one variable or two that guides everything and lets focus on just that as if everything else is incidental.  And also it gets into absolutes when there is no such thing.  Yeah exceptions exist to everything but what is the overriding drill?  My point is to me its about being forward thinking, keeping your players, playing FA where you go for topper end talent versus multiple bargain basement guys and of course also draft well.  The Vikings to me put on a clinic in that department. 

 

Don't get me started on FA, post Shanny -- I don't really care about what we give Bruce to spend in FA as if that's a game changer.  We kept hearing if they let go of Kirk watch what they do in FA and in the end we get a FA crop that even by Bruce's standards was paltry as for additions.  I like 2 of the 3 additions we got but I'd have approached the off season different. Only FA season I've liked here of late on the aggregate was 2017.  

 

Go get your Reyes, Peas, McClains McGees and all the junk they've thrown at the DT position for years.  Vikings on the other hand go get Joseph and this year Richardson.   Real monsters at that position.   And while I like the Redskins FO college scouting approach.  I am in agreement with Cooley about how the pro personnel part of the FO including how they approach FA is "meh" at best.  And I liked Scot as a drafter but I'd lump him in here too as for FA.   

 

But with each passing day I am convinced Bruce is a goner.  So I am less interested in Kirk then before -- my main interest in Kirk is does he serve as a weapon for Dan to go to Bruce and say dude I have to reassign you out of personnel.  But I've heard enough things that give me the vibe that Bruce is likely to be reassigned after this season regardless of how well Kirk does or doesn't do in Minny.  If I felt though Kirk is a running commentary on Bruce heading personnel -- I'd be all into Kirk having a killer season except when they play us. ;) 

 

Spielman versus Bruce as to approaching the D line in FA.

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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43 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

That throw and catch were nasty lol...

 

Speaking of ex-QBs, Griffin had a rather nice TD throw as well against the Rams, although against 3rd stringers.

 

Any game Griffin is not laying on a stretcher is a good game for him

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58 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's not lost on me that the Vikings FA does IMO everything well.  Sometimes on the FA thread when people get into FO debates IMO it can turn lazy when the macro discussion goes micro as if its just one variable or two that guides everything and lets focus on just that as if everything else is incidental.  And also it gets into absolutes when there is no such thing.  Yeah exceptions exist to everything but what is the overriding drill?  My point is to me its about being forward thinking, keeping your players, playing FA where you go for topper end talent versus multiple bargain basement guys and of course also draft well.  The Vikings to me put on a clinic in that department. 

 

Don't get me started on FA, post Shanny -- I don't really care about what we give Bruce to spend in FA as if that's a game changer.  We kept hearing if they let go of Kirk watch what they do in FA and in the end we get a FA crop that even by Bruce's standards was paltry as for additions.  I like 2 of the 3 additions we got but I'd have approached the off season different. Only FA season I've liked here of late on the aggregate was 2017.  

 

Go get your Reyes, Peas, McClains McGees and all the junk they've thrown at the DT position for years.  Vikings on the other hand go get Joseph and this year Richardson.   Real monsters at that position.   And while I like the Redskins FO college scouting approach.  I am in agreement with Cooley about how the pro personnel part of the FO including how they approach FA is "meh" at best.  And I liked Scot as a drafter but I'd lump him in here too as for FA.   

 

But with each passing day I am convinced Bruce is a goner.  So I am less interested in Kirk then before -- my main interest in Kirk is does he serve as a weapon for Dan to go to Bruce and say dude I have to reassign you out of personnel.  But I've heard enough things that give me the vibe that Bruce is likely to be reassigned after this season regardless of how well Kirk does or doesn't do in Minny.  If I felt though Kirk is a running commentary on Bruce heading personnel -- I'd be all into Kirk having a killer season except when they play us. ;) 

 

Spielman versus Bruce as to approaching the D line in FA.

 

12

 

I'mmmmm...not really sure what any of that had to do with what i posted lol...

 

you said the Vikings and the Redskins were in the "same predicament" when Gruden and Zimmer were hired. I said they weren't, depending upon how you defined "same predicament".

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1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

I'mmmmm...not really sure what any of that had to do with what i posted lol...

 

you said the Vikings and the Redskins were in the "same predicament" when Gruden and Zimmer were hired. I said they weren't, depending upon how you defined "same predicament".

 

 Your point was the salary cap (cap penalty) was a key difference so the Redskins had less money to spend hence that could explain why the Vikings roster is so stacked in contrast.  My response was there is more to the Vikings success over the Redskins than just the cap, and specific to spending against the cap if you give Bruce more money to spend In FA it doesn't move me considering i think he basically is "meh" at playing FA anyway.  As you know, I am not a fan of his FA approach.  

 

I find it ironic that the Vikings could both build a killer roster and fit Kirk into their salary cap and the standards are so high for them based on their alleged killer roster than anything short of a Super Bowl would be disappointing.   Imagine if expectations were that high here?  Wow, be fun.

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 Your point was the salary cap (cap penalty) was a key difference so the Redskins had less money to spend. My response was there is more to the Vikinga success over the Redskins than just the cap, and specific to spending against the cap if u give Bruce more money to spend In FA it doesn't move me considering i think he basically is "meh" at playing FA anyway.

 

No. In 2014 the cap penalties were gone so the Skins didn't have less money to spend when Gruden was first hired. My point was pretty straightforward...the Vikings in 2014 and the Redskins in 2014 were not in the same predicament, at least not the way I define it. The Skins should have had a stronger core of players in 2014 than they did, and the cap penalty was one big reason they didn't. That was a substantial hole to climb out of. Also, the dearth of 1st round picks due to the RG3 trade coupled with the cap penalties meant the 2014 Skins were in a significantly different predicament than the Vikings (and pretty much every other team in the league). The first part of this decade was spent cleaning up the reckless spending of the Vinny years and trying to restock the young talent lost by trading away so many draft picks during Gibs II and Vinny's short tenure as de facto GM. As a comparison, do you know how many 1st round draft picks the Vikings had in the two years before Zimmer came on as head coach?...Five. 

 

Five 1st round draft picks brought onto the Vikings in the 2 years prior to Zimmer's arrival.

 

You know how many 1st round draft picks the Skins had in the 2 years prior to Gruden's arrival? One. And that one pick he didn't even want starting lol...

 

Again, my point--only point--was that it's untrue that the Vikings and the Redskins were in the "same predicament" when Zimmer and Gruden joined their respective teams. Your original post used their perceived starting points to show just how much farther the Vikings had come compared to the Skins, even though both started out at the same spot...that the Vikings apparently hit the ground running. I'm saying the Vikings and Skins both started at point A only if you overlook that the Skins were in a deep hole at point A and had to climb out and get back to the surface first before they could start running.

Edited by Califan007
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17 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

No. In 2014 the cap penalties were gone so the Skins didn't have less money to spend when Gruden was first hired. My point was pretty straightforward...the Vikings in 2014 and the Redskins in 2014 were not in the same predicament, at least not the way I define it.

 

The way I define it they have built a killer roster pretty fast.   Not saying you are saying otherwise -- but to explain my mindset -- the Vikings are not in the category of who can't build something special in 3-4 years -- we all know this roster hasn't always been plagued by the salary cap -- we've had plenty of similar windows to find success as have other teams.  The Vikings have drafted very well.  They have found stars in UDFA.  They signed FAs that have turned out well.   They are so far doing well at keeping their guys, too. 

 

If you want to define it differently have at it.  Just stating my opinion.  When I think of the cap penalty I think of it in terms of FAs. So whether Bruce has extra dough to burn in FA -- I don't get jazzed up by the possibilities based on his history, that's all.

 

I just looked it up starting the 2014 off season the Vikings had $26.7 million of cap room.  the Redskins had $33.5 million.  But even if I ran with your theory that the Vikings were the team with the major cash advantage.  It wouldn't make a difference to me.  My take here is I like how the Vikings draft and like how they approach FA.  And I think both are important. I like what we got brewing with Kyle Smith in college scouting but I think we need to upgrade pro personnel.  

 

The Vikings have grabbed in two different off seasons my man crushes at D.  Guys I talked about before they took them -- guys I wanted here.   I've been impressed with how they go about their business.  If you don't feel the same and think the Redskins FO would go apples to apples with the Vikings if it weren't for that pesky 2012 salary cap -- that's cool, lets agree to disagree.;)

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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59 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If you don't feel the same and think the Redskins FO would go apples to apples with the Vikings if it weren't for that pesky 2012 salary cap -- that's cool, lets agree to disagree.;)

1

 

We can't really agree to disagree on something I never expressed an opinion on lol...

 

But if you feel the Vikings and Redskins were in pretty much the same situation and circumstances in terms of their rosters and resources when Gruden and Zimmer were hired as head coach, then that we can agree to disagree on.

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