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NFL.com: Kirk Cousins tops biggest contracts (Special rule---you can refer to the Redskins in this thread---M.E.T.)

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Cousins is clearly a flawed player, but he's also a pretty reliable and above-average starting QB. I would guess that the Vikings paid him knowing he'd likely start all 48 games and hoping that he'd eventually overcome his flaws.

 

What made him more attractive than a draft pick or someone without as many games under his belt, is that they at least knew what his floor was. He's proven he's capable of moving an offense when things are clicking. What he's yet to prove (and I personally don't believe he will) is that he can put a team on his shoulders and win a big game for you when other things aren't working around him. That's not even really a criticism...what are there, 5 of those guys in the league? But, it's a reason I didn't think he was worth $28M fully guaranteed per year. 

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The Vikings for sure made a good bet in paying him given the position they were in. It can be argued they were a QB away. I dont really think they were considering the Oline, but if you think a above average QB can make an Oline look better and you think Kirk is an above average QB then why not take that shot. I probably would have, being the Vikings. I wouldnt have liked paying him, but he was their best bet. 

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42 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

Cousins is clearly a flawed player, but he's also a pretty reliable and above-average starting QB. I would guess that the Vikings paid him knowing he'd likely start all 48 games and hoping that he'd eventually overcome his flaws.

 

What made him more attractive than a draft pick or someone without as many games under his belt, is that they at least knew what his floor was. He's proven he's capable of moving an offense when things are clicking. What he's yet to prove (and I personally don't believe he will) is that he can put a team on his shoulders and win a big game for you when other things aren't working around him. That's not even really a criticism...what are there, 5 of those guys in the league? But, it's a reason I didn't think he was worth $28M fully guaranteed per year. 

This is an entirely fair take.  He has yet to show he can carry the weight of the team on his shoulders and win big games in December.  Might never do it, I wouldn’t bet against him but I also wouldn’t bet that he will.

 

What I see with some others is they dislike him so much they start making up slights and negatives that don’t really exist.  I don’t know if it’s just hate or thirst to “be right” but it’s pretty hilarious.

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3 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 If you really want to blow your mind, go check out guys like Aaron Rodgers vs. teams over .500 ever since he won the Super Bowl.  But don't, it will poke some holes in your narrative.

 

 

You don't really want to send people to go look up records against winning teams, trust me lol...I know you narrowed the reference to games "since (Rodgers) won the Super Bowl," but that will only lead to comparing career records against winning teams...and Kirk is like in Blake Bortles territory on that one.

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7 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

You don't really want to send people to go look up records against winning teams, trust me lol...I know you narrowed the reference to games "since (Rodgers) won the Super Bowl," but that will only lead to comparing career records against winning teams...and Kirk is like in Blake Bortles territory on that one.

Rodgers won the Super Bowl damn near a decade ago.  Everyone still rightfully thinks hes an elite QB, even though his record since he won the SB, against .500 or better teams is very poor.

 

Blake Bortles sucks, yes.  Blake Bortles also played for a Jags team that was only good for one season.

 

The point is that it's a meaningless stat for a quarterback, only used in an attempt to make the point one wishes to make.

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11 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Rodgers won the Super Bowl damn near a decade ago.  Everyone still rightfully thinks hes an elite QB, even though his record since he won the SB, against .500 or better teams is very poor.

 

Blake Bortles sucks, yes.  Blake Bortles also played for a Jags team that was only good for one season.

 

The point is that it's a meaningless stat for a quarterback, only used in an attempt to make the point one wishes to make.

 

Yeah, but you said it pokes holes in the other guy's narrative, but it really doesn't. The reason being is that if Rodgers had the same record against winning teams before the Packers won the Super Bowl as he did after winning the Super Bowl, they most likely never would have even made it TO the Super Bowl lol...so if the argument against Kirk is "He won't win you anything because he can't win against winning teams," Rodgers' record against winning teams since winning the Super Bowl actually helps validate that position. However, if the argument is "Kirk sucks as a QB because he can't beat winning teams," then it's not really validated. 

 

And for what it's worth, I do agree that team records are a piss-poor way of judging a QB...well, I take that back lol...it's a piss-poor way if it's the main way you're judging QBs. But it does provide some additional insight.

Edited by Califan007

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I never even brought up his win total though! LOL 

 

All I said was that he is the King of Garbage time. And although he hasn't been crowned yet, he preforms admirably in garbage time situations. Someone posting a link proving it but I cant find it 🤪

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17 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

Yeah, but you said it pokes holes in the other guy's narrative, but it really doesn't. The reason being is that if Rodgers had the same record against winning teams before the Packers won the Super Bowl as he did after winning the Super Bowl, they most likely never would have even made it TO the Super Bowl lol...so if the argument against Kirk is "He won't win you anything because he can't win against winning teams," Rodgers' record against winning teams since winning the Super Bowl actually helps validate that position. However, if the argument is "Kirk sucks as a QB because he can't beat winning teams," then it's not really validated. 

 

And for what it's worth, I do agree that team records are a piss-poor way of judging a QB...well, I take that back lol...it's a piss-poor way if it's the main way you're judging QBs. But it does provide some additional insight.

It's not any one guy's narrative, I've just seen it used here often when it fits with the narrative the poster is going with.  So there really wasn't any specific argument attached to that statement at all.  Obviously Rodgers is a better QB than Kirk.  It was just another example of a 'stat' that really has no meaning.  The actual topic was garbage time stats and I recall the argument only because of how ridiculous it was, particularly when the article and stats presented didn't even tell the story the poster thought he was telling.  The argument started as some semblance of "I know Kirk has got to have more garbage stats than any QB" only to be followed with an article that had him right in the middle.  But the underlying point in all that is even garbage time stats are not a valid measure for QB's because typically QB's on not so great teams are going to have more garbage yards than QBs on good teams.  Above that, if it's so easy to rack up stats in the NFL via garbage time and get a record breaking contract for it - why isn't everyone else doing it?

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome
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47 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

This is an entirely fair take.  He has yet to show he can carry the weight of the team on his shoulders and win big games in December.  Might never do it, I wouldn’t bet against him but I also wouldn’t bet that he will.

 

What I see with some others is they dislike him so much they start making up slights and negatives that don’t really exist.  I don’t know if it’s just hate or thirst to “be right” but it’s pretty hilarious.

 

Yep - anyone who wants to pretend that Cousins "sucks" is obviously being purposely obtuse. I'm pretty comfortable stating that he's the best QB we've had here in a long time AND wasn't worth the money it would have taken to keep him. The issue I had with the organization is (similar to Williams) not getting value for him. 

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Just now, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Yep - anyone who wants to pretend that Cousins "sucks" is obviously being purposely obtuse. I'm pretty comfortable stating that he's the best QB we've had here in a long time AND wasn't worth the money it would have taken to keep him. The issue I had with the organization is (similar to Williams) not getting value for him. 

The only thing I'd add to that is that I wish they were smart enough to have kept him at a good price sooner and built a better relationship that would have never led to 28M per season all guaranteed.  After that didnt happen, yes - you have to trade him.

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23 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

And for what it's worth, I do agree that team records are a piss-poor way of judging a QB...well, I take that back lol...it's a piss-poor way if it's the main way you're judging QBs. But it does provide some additional insight.

 

This can't be overlooked...it isn't the biggest factor, but it should be a factor. Unless of course most losses came despite incredible offensive games where the defense continually gave up 30+ points, game-winning drives, etc. That happened at times here with Cousins, but that doesn't make up the majority of his losses. 

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

The only thing I'd add to that is that I wish they were smart enough to have kept him at a good price sooner and built a better relationship that would have never led to 28M per season all guaranteed.  After that didnt happen, yes - you have to trade him.

Agreed, if they had invested in him earlier then maybe it never comes to a head and he's still here under contract. 

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2 

7 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It's not any one guy's narrative, I've just seen it used here often when it fits with the narrative the poster is going with.  So there really wasn't any specific argument attached to that statement at all.  Obviously Rodgers is a better QB than Kirk.  It was just another example of a 'stat' that really has no meaning.  The actual topic was garbage time stats and I recall the argument only because of how ridiculous it was, particularly when the article and stats presented didn't even tell the story the poster thought he was telling.  The argument started as some semblance of "I know Kirk has got to have more garbage stats than any QB" only to be followed with an article that had him right in the middle.  But the underlying point in all that is even garbage time stats are not a valid measure for QB's because typically QB's on not so great teams are going to have more garbage yards than QBs on good teams.  Above that, if it's so easy to rack up stats in the NFL via garbage time and get a record breaking contract for it - why isn't everyone else doing it?

 

When I was reading the back and forth between you and Llevron (assume it was him after reading his last post), I thought you both were making pretty good points in between the volley of snark lol...but when I read that one line about checking out Rodgers' record against winning teams since the SB, my reaction was like, "Ohhhhh...you were doing good til then" and had to comment lol.

 

I'll let you guys carry on...

 

 

giphy.gif

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Someone tell me how I can find garbage time stats cause I wanna look at this last season now but I cant find a single place with reliable information AND a good user interface. (Thats a website idea for some of you smart guys. And you wouldn't even have to compile the data yourselves) 

 

Also im curious if any of yall consider passing the ball when you are beating the **** out of a team garbage time as well? I have been trying to look this up all morning now and I see alot of people talking about Brees and his garbage time coming from him passing the ball when up on an team and im not sure I agree thats garbage time.

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31 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Someone tell me how I can find garbage time stats cause I wanna look at this last season now but I cant find a single place with reliable information AND a good user interface. (Thats a website idea for some of you smart guys. And you wouldn't even have to compile the data yourselves) 

 

Also im curious if any of yall consider passing the ball when you are beating the **** out of a team garbage time as well? I have been trying to look this up all morning now and I see alot of people talking about Brees and his garbage time coming from him passing the ball when up on an team and im not sure I agree thats garbage time.

I don't think you are going to find a comprehensive summary and statistics on garbage time.  Too many variables and not important enough for anyone to care that much.  Other than folks staking claim that it's possible to utilize garbage time to really pad stats and leverage 3 years/84M guaranteed out of it.  I doubt anyone is going to put the time and effort required to satisfy the one person I know of who would say such a thing.

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome

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12 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don't think you are going to find a comprehensive summary and statistics on garbage time.  Too many variables and not important enough for anyone to care that much.  Other than folks staking claim that it's possible to utilize garbage time to really pad stats and leverage 3 years/84M guaranteed out of it.  I doubt anyone is going to put the time and effort required to satisfy the one person I know of who would say such a thing.

 

(I mean you did find that first link for me sooooooooo) 

 

I feel like you are really trying to make me argue a point im not really trying to argue just for the sake of talking to me. Again. But ok **** it. I like you too. 

 

Do you think stats play any role at all in contract negotiations? 

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8 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Do you think stats play any role at all in contract negotiations? 

A players agent is always going to utilize everything they can to leverage the best possible deal for their client.  Not only that, but there are incentives related to stats and milestones built into contracts all the time.  So yes, somewhat.

 

However, GMs and scouts have every throw a guy ever made on tape at their disposal.  In Cousins case, 3 years where he played every offensive snap of every game.  They aren't about to sign a guy to the biggest deal for a QB ever based on the stat sheet.  They have to like what they've seen on tape and it'd be pretty easy to see if a guy was only good when games don't matter or playing not to get hurt.  

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome

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When one thinks of ultra-competent FOs that exhibit extraordinary diligence regarding their choice of quarterback, the Vikings have to be at the top of the list.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000694979/article/sam-bradford-traded-to-vikings-for-two-draft-picks

 

https://thevikingage.com/2019/06/26/minnesota-vikings-ponder-2011-biggest-draft-bust/

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/6807795/donovan-mcnabb-trade-minnesota-vikings-finalized-source-says

Edited by TryTheBeal!
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Why don't you guys stop criticizing Cousins drop the pretense and talk about what really bothers you,  where your real pain is, you got dumped by your high school girlfriend and have been fractured tortured souls ever since.....  I know it hurt, but Its long past time to let it go, have a good cry and then let it finally it all out...  You'll feel better and less bitter.  Now take a glass of wine put on a weepy song and let it go....

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10 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

Why don't you guys stop criticizing Cousins drop the pretense and talk about what really bothers you,  where your real pain is, you got dumped by your high school girlfriend and have been fractured tortured souls ever since.....  I know it hurt, but Its long past time to let it go, have a good cry and then let it finally it all out...  You'll feel better and less bitter.  Now take a glass of wine put on a weepy song and let it go....

 

Didn't the DMV call to come pick up your new plates yet?

 

 

KC.JPG

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11 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Above that, if it's so easy to rack up stats in the NFL via garbage time and get a record breaking contract for it - why isn't everyone else doing it?

 

How many QBs in the NFL history have been tagged back to back? 

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After last night, Trubisky is on pace for roughly 3700 yards.

 

Something, something, Kirk, four thousand, Jurgensen, something, something...

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