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NFL.com: Kirk Cousins tops biggest contracts (Special rule---you can refer to the Redskins in this thread---M.E.T.)

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3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The Vikings just doubled down on un-clutch.  We’ve already seen this movie.

 

I wish these two teams played in week one or two.  I would be hyped to see the Cousins/Doctson vs Keenum/Peterson grudge match.  By week 8, it is tough to guess if Doctson will still be around, and how much Peterson and maybe even Keenum will be a part of the Redskins Offense.

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Doctson picked up the Vikes makes me think they wanted to draft him over Treadwell instead. Will have to see how this works out for them and Kirk, since Kirk targeted him 2nd most in 2017 when he was here. 

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I will hold with what I said to my Vikings friend about it: Doctson is decent on 50-50 balls. Problem is, when the ball is thrown his way, just about every ball will be a 50-50 ball because he gets no separation.

 

Too bad Kirk doesn't like throwing 50-50 balls lol

 

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Doctson is better than Treadwell imo...and I would assume that having coverage and pressure taken off of him by playing with Diggs and Thielen instead of Crowder and Ryan Grant will only help Doctson. If he puts up the numbers he put up in 2017, it will be seen as a good move for the Vikings because they aren't bringing him on board to be the #1 guy or even the #2. 

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8 hours ago, Califan007 said:

Doctson is better than Treadwell imo...and I would assume that having coverage and pressure taken off of him by playing with Diggs and Thielen instead of Crowder and Ryan Grant will only help Doctson. If he puts up the numbers he put up in 2017, it will be seen as a good move for the Vikings because they aren't bringing him on board to be the #1 guy or even the #2. 

 

I'm surprised that Doctson is going to Minnesota.   I have to believe that doesn't happen unless Kirk wants it to happen and you make a key point Doctson just has to be a #3 receiver in Minny, no expectations.  Maybe he will thrive there, who knows.

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32 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

50/50 balls from a QB who won’t get them there late in games anyway... 😂

 

That is what I was thinking but Kirk must be onboard with this decision maybe he thinks he can work with Doctson.

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5 hours ago, ntotoro said:

50/50 balls from a QB who won’t get them there late in games anyway... 😂

 

Maybe Kirk thinks he can do what he wasn't allowed to do by Gruden. Gruden tends to be more conservative. 

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14 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

Maybe Kirk thinks he can do what he wasn't allowed to do by Gruden. Gruden tends to be more conservative. 

Towards the end of Kirk's run, Gruden openly implied that he had wanted Kirk to take more risks and be less conservative lol

 

 

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Kirk doesn't like throw 50/50 balls in fact they had to coach him into taking more risks throwing to Rudolph.  I think Califan007 identified the key point Doctson is going to be at best Doctson will benefit from having Diggs and Theilen drawing attention away from him.  It will be interesting to see how things work out for Doctson with Kirk in Minnesota. 

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11 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

Is Doctson suddenly gonna' be able to get separation in a different state?

 

He'll be the #3 guy with Diggs and Thielen so maybe he'll have an easier time getting open.  It seems to me that Doctson had many of the same issues in DC as Treadwell had in Minny.  They are taking a flyer on him so no big risk.  

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Doc aint gonna do too bad in Minny as a WR3. Though, I dont think he really wants to play football but thats a different thing all together I guess. 

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11 hours ago, NickyJ said:

Towards the end of Kirk's run, Gruden openly implied that he had wanted Kirk to take more risks and be less conservative lol

 

 

So in that case it was Kirk who was trying to be conservative to make his numbers look good then to get a big pay day...lol

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4 hours ago, zskins said:

 

So in that case it was Kirk who was trying to be conservative to make his numbers look good then to get a big pay day...lol

 

Considering at that point he was trying his best to get a 3 year fully guaranteed deal and wouldn't settle for anything less....yea that makes sense. He wouldnt have gotten that deal without those numbers that made him a "top QB" and he wouldnt have gotten lots of those numbers without filling that stat sheet when we were already out of games. 

 

Dude was in on it the entire time lol. It was obvious then. Garbage time stat king. 

 

EDIT: I know I was arguing this with someone back then. I dont remember who, but I remember pulling stats to prove it. 

Edited by Llevron
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48 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

EDIT: I know I was arguing this with someone back then. I dont remember who, but I remember pulling stats to prove it. 

That would be me and you never actually pulled any stats to prove it.  I recall you pulled something that didn't even say what you wanted it to mean.  The fact of the matter is that QBs on bad teams are clearly going to have more garbage time stats, because their teams are garbage.  Mind blowing I know.  That and the 4-1,000,000 against teams over .500 stat is another one that's funny to me.  If you really want to blow your mind, go check out guys like Aaron Rodgers vs. teams over .500 ever since he won the Super Bowl.  But don't, it will poke some holes in your narrative.

 

I honestly can't believe that you truly believe that this dude purposely pulled a coup over the NFL in an effort to get that handsome contract.  If it was that easy to just be the garbage time king and get the richest QB contract in history, why aren't other guys doing it?  Is Kirk really that genius, that he figured out a way to fool the league into believing he can play?  We're not talking just one season here, but multiple seasons.  Kirk is the Bernie Madoff of the NFL. 🤣

 

Clearly, Kirk has his warts.  But you just can't help yourself from getting entirely too extra.  God forbid he has a season this year, it's going to be suicide watch for some of you guys.

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome
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4 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

That would be me and you never actually pulled any stats to prove it.  I recall you pulled something that didn't even say what you wanted it to mean.  The fact of the matter is that QBs on bad teams are clearly going to have more garbage time stats, because their team is garbage.  Mind blowing I know.  That and the 4-1,000,000 against teams over .500 stat is another one that's funny to me.  If you really want to blow your mind, go check out guys like Aaron Rodgers vs. teams over .500 ever since he won the Super Bowl.  But don't, it will poke some holes in your narrative.

 

I honestly can't believe that you truly believe that this dude purposely pulled a coup over the NFL in an effort to get that handsome contract.  If it was that easy to just be the garbage time king and get the richest QB contract in history, why aren't other guys doing it?  Is Kirk really that genius, that he figured out a way to fool the league into believing he can play?  We're not talking just one season here, but multiple seasons.  Kirk is the Bernie Madoff of the NFL. 🤣

 

Clearly, Kirk has his warts.  But you just can't help yourself from getting entirely too extra.  God forbid he has a season this year, it's going to be suicide watch for some of you guys.

 

Man you cant be any more of a hit dog hahahah. I like that you are so honest about yourself. Seriously not sarcasm. I really like being right and you provide me that opportunity often. I remember those stats proving more than you would care to admit, but you typically argue a bunch of **** that doesnt make any sense so as usual I gave up on you. But if you can quote it (I cant find it -- I tried) we can do it again. I dont feel like looking anymore than I have already. 

 

Anyway -- what exactly is your argument here? Or can you just not help yourself when you think someone is calling you out? Im legit not calling you out, I was just saying I remember winning that argument. Easily. And everything that has happened since then has justified me. Are we not in agreement on that fact or something? 

 

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35 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Man you cant be any more of a hit dog hahahah. I like that you are so honest about yourself. Seriously not sarcasm. I really like being right and you provide me that opportunity often. I remember those stats proving more than you would care to admit, but you typically argue a bunch of **** that doesnt make any sense so as usual I gave up on you. But if you can quote it (I cant find it -- I tried) we can do it again. I dont feel like looking anymore than I have already. 

 

I'll spend my time going back in history to find that mostly irrelevant to your point article to satisfy you right around the time you go and find me these arguments you've won against me.  Yeah, I'll wait.

 

EDIT:  It literally took me all of 5 seconds to find the article you posted that makes you somehow believe all of your Kirk Cousins criticism was validated:

 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/blake-bortles-is-the-tom-brady-of-nfl-garbage-time/

 

Now you must go find these exchanges where you kill me with your superior NFL prowess and intellect. 🤣

 

 

35 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Anyway -- what exactly is your argument here? Or can you just not help yourself when you think someone is calling you out? Im legit not calling you out, I was just saying I remember winning that argument. Easily. And everything that has happened since then has justified me. Are we not in agreement on that fact or something? 

You were going on and on about all his stats being meaningless, garbage time, prevent defense BS.  You posted an article, taking stats from one season, that showed stats after games were out of hand, and Kirk was in the top ten and you thought that was gospel.  As if quarterbacks that play for bad teams aren't going to have the most garbage time stats.  What you were implying is that the bulk of his stats were made up of gimmes after the team was already blown out.  I only remember this because of how absolutely absurd it was. 

 

To say that Kirk doesn't get it done in December when it matters is valid criticism that he deserves until he gets it done.  To suggest that the dude conjured up a plan to inflate numbers and fool NFL GM's into making him rich is straight-up tinfoil hat territory.  My argument is, how is he such a genius to pull off such a masterful move like that, and why wouldn't other QBs do it if it's so easy to post big numbers?  It's like you don't even realize how stupid you sound and that hatred is so deep you just can't stop finding reasons why he sucks and you are "right".

 

Honestly, the only reason I even looked at this post was because it showed you were the last to post and I just knew you'd be in here patting yourself on the back about something.  I had hoped you'd be patting yourself on the back for something that really happened.  But I'll bow out now and let you continue racking up make-believe internet wins to boost your fragile confidence.  

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome
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15 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I'll spend my time going back in history to find that mostly irrelevant to your point article to satisfy you right around the time you go and find me these arguments you've won against me.  Yeah, I'll wait.

 

15 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Honestly, the only reason I even looked at this post was because it showed you were the last to post and I just knew you'd be in here patting yourself on the back about something.  I had hoped you'd be patting yourself on the back for something that really happened.  But I'll bow out now and let you continue racking up make-believe internet wins to boost your fragile confidence.  

 

This -- if we were taking score -- is how you lose an argument on the internet and how I often walk away "feeling" like "I win". Like I do now lol. I dont even have to engage really when you do such a good job debasing yourself. 

 

I mean taking the high road and "backing out now" after saying how irreverent the article was and implying how you wouldn't waste your time by looking it up *and then looking it up LOL *, interjecting yourself in a conversation not directed toward you while in the same post admitting that you are literally only here because it was me "patting myself on the back" about something AGAIN *when your first post in this thread, on the first page, is literally you doing the same* like you didnt come here JUST TO SAY you where so right then and are so right now but chastise me for my "fragile confidence" and "make-believe internet wins" -- this **** is the stuff of legends lmao. 

 

Ignoring the projection in your posts and the almost lethal levels of narcissism it takes to produce the above leaps in sanity, I still think that link proves that Cousins benefited more than most top-10 QBs should from garbage time stats and that he wasnt leading the team to victory so much as the team wining with him. All I was asking you to do was provide me the argument again. If you really are going to argue this point again and not just obsess over and argue with @Llevron -- If you wanna come back from your self proposed retirement, lets argue that point. I am also very comfortable with you never talking to me again so if that is something you are interested in.... then by all means.... 

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1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I honestly can't believe that you truly believe that this dude purposely pulled a coup over the NFL in an effort to get that handsome contract.  

 

Isn't he the same dude who said God told him too...lol

 

Kirk is very smart. There was a reason why he was going to become a doctor.

 

He knew if he took chances it was going to hurt him. He also knew the Skins weren't bringing him back. So why not make yourself look good for someone else and at the same time not get hurt trying to be a hero on lost cause team that was not going to the playoffs or beyond. You don't need stats to see that. 

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9 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

Isn't he the same dude who said God told him too...lol

 

Kirk is very smart. There was a reason why he was going to become a doctor.

 

He knew if he took chances it was going to hurt him. He also knew the Skins weren't bringing him back. So why not make yourself look good for someone else and at the same time not get hurt trying to be a hero on lost cause team that was not going to the playoffs or beyond. You don't need stats to see that. 

There is stuff to not like about Kirk's play, but I can't say that I ever once thought he was playing not to get hurt or to merely pad his stats, because he thinks hes smarter than all the GM's looking at him.  As if GM's don't watch tape and merely rely on the stat sheet.  For being such a smart guy, that doesn't seem very smart.  There is stuff to dislike about Kirk, but playing not to get hurt is not something I ever saw.  One of his better plays as a Redskin was in New Orleans, a day he was getting battered and bruised and Thompson got lost for the season, where he purposely gave up his body to launch a perfect pass down the sideline to Vernon Davis to move the chains.  He got annihilated and knew he was but did it anyways.   I don't think a guy that's packed it in and only worried about having impressive numbers chooses to make that play.  Don't we remember the soundbites of Trent mic'd up talking to Kirk on the sidenline telling him to be smarter because he's worth a lot of $.  Or when Trent said the only reason he played through injury was to protect Kirk.  Seems like an odd position for Trent to take if his QB is deliberately trying to game the NFL only to pad his stats and get paid.

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome
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12 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

Isn't he the same dude who said God told him too...lol

 

Kirk is very smart. There was a reason why he was going to become a doctor.

 

He knew if he took chances it was going to hurt him. He also knew the Skins weren't bringing him back. So why not make yourself look good for someone else and at the same time not get hurt trying to be a hero on lost cause team that was not going to the playoffs or beyond. You don't need stats to see that. 

 

Kirk wouldn't be the first player in the NFL suspected of using garbage time to pump up his stats so it wouldn't surprise me at all if he used this to his advantage when seeking a new contract. I mean he said it himself that he was willing to take a chance at playing on the tag because he was confidant in his ability -- this means if nothing else he was very aware that his stats matter and that they would help him get a better contract. 

 

Its alot harder justifying making a guy the top paid QB fully guaranteed if hes throwing for 3k a season and not 5k. I think thats a pretty simple deduction for him to make and for us to assume he made.  

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