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NFL.com: Kirk Cousins tops biggest contracts (Special rule---you can refer to the Redskins in this thread---M.E.T.)

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Kirk today made another tweet, this time saying ‚Äúcan‚Äôt believe kingjames left Cleveland for this Miami gridlock‚ÄĚ (i think Pretty much a way of telling the people that got all whiny about his other tweet ‚Äúhey, now I‚Äôm making fun of MIAMI, see?? Lay off of me‚ÄĚ) and a couple of the responses are pretty much ‚Äúsomeone please take this mans phone/twitter away, he‚Äôs not helping himself‚ÄĚ.¬†

 

Honestly, what’s the big deal? Who gives two ***** if he pokes fun at Cleveland weather or the Miami traffic??? Good lord. 

 

Calling him a traitor JUST FOR THAT?? LOLOLOL please.

Edited by Cooleyfan1993

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5 hours ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Honestly, what’s the big deal? Who gives two ***** if he pokes fun at Cleveland weather or the Miami traffic??? Good lord.

 

 

Apparently, Kirk does because he tried to rectify his earlier tweet lol....

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2 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

Apparently, Kirk does because he tried to rectify his earlier tweet lol....

Yeah but only to shut up those that were whining about the first tweet. It’s just ridiculous 

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11 hours ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Kirk today made another tweet, this time saying ‚Äúcan‚Äôt believe kingjames left Cleveland for this Miami gridlock‚ÄĚ (i think Pretty much a way of telling the people that got all whiny about his other tweet ‚Äúhey, now I‚Äôm making fun of MIAMI, see?? Lay off of me‚ÄĚ) and a couple of the responses are pretty much ‚Äúsomeone please take this mans phone/twitter away, he‚Äôs not helping himself‚ÄĚ.¬†

 

Honestly, what’s the big deal? Who gives two ***** if he pokes fun at Cleveland weather or the Miami traffic??? Good lord. 

 

Calling him a traitor JUST FOR THAT?? LOLOLOL please.

 

I said before I didn't think the tweet itself was that bad. However, he has to think more about these things. He could have just said hey the weather here in Miami is great. But he brings up some LeBron reference when he has to know after pretty much of a failure of a season - his fault or not - he would get crucified for it as there are some direct comparisons to both their situations - most specifically being the top FA of the off season in their respective sport. Is it over the top for what he said? Absolutely. But it's fans. They are going to over react to most anything, especially when social media is involved. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Yeah but only to shut up those that were whining about the first tweet. It’s just ridiculous 

 

Its alot like people ****ing about RG3 and his media whorishness after God took his knees from him. I always thought alot of the love he got here was because he wasn't as much of a douche as Griffin, at least outwardly. So he benefited from the low profile. Now that he has the fame hes just as bad. From his logo, to "You Vike That!" to Twitter. The parallel amuses me. 

Edited by Llevron
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2 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

Is the outrage ridiculous? Of course. 

 

Has Kirk proven himself to be horribly tone deaf on Twitter with his topics and timing? Absolutely. 

 

Has there been some satisfaction in seeing that his new fanbase is sounding a lot like his old fanbase?...

 

 

 

giphy.gif

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15 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

Has there been some satisfaction in seeing that his new fanbase is sounding a lot like his old fanbase?...

 

 

 

giphy.gif

 

Don't get me wrong...I take childish pleasure in every failure and misstep of his. I feel badly about it, but I do. I'm just trying to look objectively at this situation so I don't come off sounding like a "Kirk has always sucked" Redskins homer. 

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On 2/21/2019 at 7:05 AM, goskins10 said:

 

I said before I didn't think the tweet itself was that bad. However, he has to think more about these things. He could have just said hey the weather here in Miami is great. But he brings up some LeBron reference when he has to know after pretty much of a failure of a season - his fault or not - he would get crucified for it as there are some direct comparisons to both their situations - most specifically being the top FA of the off season in their respective sport. Is it over the top for what he said? Absolutely. But it's fans. They are going to over react to most anything, especially when social media is involved. 

 

 

 

This point isn't directed to you.  I am just playing off of your point about the emotion of it all. The Kirk situation to me is complicated.  From the Vikings stand point, he is paid like he's their savior.  but he's not that type of QB.  He's not Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, etc. 

 

IMO it doesn't matter if you got good weapons if your O line stinks.  Their O line is horrendous.  The Giants have arguably the best RB and Wr in the league yet they don't win.  Eli is part of that issue but he actually played pretty well in the 2nd half.  The Giants O line stinks so they are stuck in quick sand. 

 

Kirk is not a transcendent QB who can overcome a terrible O line.  If you all recall he slipped in 2017 too when the O line got decimated.  He was relatively ok with poor weapons but he couldn't overcome the O line injuries.  

 

He got off to a hot start last season and faded in the home stretch.  I don't think its him struggling in the clutch as some purport.  I think his achilles heel is defeating really good defenses.  I watched him play the Bears, Seattle, etc and he really struggled.  That's his weakness IMO.  Can he overcome that one way or another?  I don't know.  I suspect he will play well next season.  But will see.   IMO he needs to prove that he can defeat the really good defenses.   Guys like Brady can do it.  Can Kirk?  He hasn't really shown so, yet.  He's played well in the clutch here at times but it wasn't against the big boy defenses.  People trash him for the Giants game in 2016 but if you all recall the Giants defense was really really good that year.  That's his weakness IMO. 

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/02/24/mike-shanahan-kirk-cousins-right-qb-for-vikings-but-supporting-cast-has-to-improve/

Shanahan called the offensive line one area that needs to improve and that view is shared by plenty of others that watched the Vikings in 2018. They’ll get a chance to start addressing that area when the new league year gets underway next month.

 

From the Redskins standpoint IMO they blew it no matter what angle you got -- that pertains to the Kirk is great crowd, Kirk stinks crowd and anything in between.  I like Kirk.  but do I think the dude is elite?  Nope.  Do I think he is a 28 million dollar QB?  Nope. I didn't think they should pay him that.  But I blame the FO for being in that situation in the first place.  The Eagles fleece team after team when they discard their over the hill or overrated QBs - heck they even got a nice ransom for Bradford.  And we get a lowly 3rd round comp for Kirk. 

 

I said at¬†the beginning of last season, I like Kirk but the only thing I care about relating to him is does his performance effect Bruce Allen's status.¬† And if it does, I'd root him on hard.¬† And if it doesn't, I wouldn't care.¬† In the end, Bruce looks to be on the ropes regardless of Kirk.¬† So I am satisfied.¬†¬†ūüėČ

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

This point isn't directed to you.  I am just playing off of your point about the emotion of it all. The Kirk situation to me is complicated.  From the Vikings stand point, he is paid like he's their savior.  but he's not that type of QB.  He's not Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, etc. 

 

IMO it doesn't matter if you got good weapons if your O line stinks.  Their O line is horrendous.  The Giants have arguably the best RB and Wr in the league yet they don't win.  Eli is part of that issue but he actually played pretty well in the 2nd half.  The Giants O line stinks so they are stuck in quick sand. 

 

Kirk is not a transcendent QB who can overcome a terrible O line.  If you all recall he slipped in 2017 too when the O line got decimated.  He was relatively ok with poor weapons but he couldn't overcome the O line injuries.  

 

He got off to a hot start last season and faded in the home stretch.  I don't think its him struggling in the clutch as some purport.  I think his achilles heel is defeating really good defenses.  I watched him play the Bears, Seattle, etc and he really struggled.  That's his weakness IMO.  Can he overcome that one way or another?  I don't know.  I suspect he will play well next season.  But will see.   IMO he needs to prove that he can defeat the really good defenses.   Guys like Brady can do it.  Can Kirk?  He hasn't really shown so, yet.  He's played well in the clutch here at times but it wasn't against the big boy defenses.  People trash him for the Giants game in 2016 but if you all recall the Giants defense was really really good that year.  That's his weakness IMO. 

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/02/24/mike-shanahan-kirk-cousins-right-qb-for-vikings-but-supporting-cast-has-to-improve/

Shanahan called the offensive line one area that needs to improve and that view is shared by plenty of others that watched the Vikings in 2018. They’ll get a chance to start addressing that area when the new league year gets underway next month.

 

From the Redskins standpoint IMO they blew it no matter what angle you got -- that pertains to the Kirk is great crowd, Kirk stinks crowd and anything in between.  I like Kirk.  but do I think the dude is elite?  Nope.  Do I think he is a 28 million dollar QB?  Nope. I didn't think they should pay him that.  But I blame the FO for being in that situation in the first place.  The Eagles fleece team after team when they discard their over the hill or overrated QBs - heck they even got a nice ransom for Bradford.  And we get a lowly 3rd round comp for Kirk. 

 

I said at¬†the beginning of last season, I like Kirk but the only thing I care about relating to him is does his performance effect Bruce Allen's status.¬† And if it does, I'd root him on hard.¬† And if it doesn't, I wouldn't care.¬† In the end, Bruce looks to be on the ropes regardless of Kirk.¬† So I am satisfied.¬†¬†ūüėČ

 

I mostly agree - just a few differences maybe: 

 

Oline - Yea, the Oline got decimated here. It was not good in MN. Here is the problem - the MN oline was almost exactly the same from 2017 to 2018 with Tom Compton coming over to play LG. He took over for long time starter Joe Berger. So if I am a Vikings fan I look at that and say Case was able to make it happen, wtf happened to Kirk? To be fair, a few things also contributed to it - a new OC. The play calling looked a lot like what they did here - too pass heavy, no commitment to the run, get settled into the same plays too easily. I wonder if their new OC was trying to keep Kirk in a comfort zone. It worked early but then it fell apart. Zimmer - not one to stand still - goes and gets Kubiak to put his offense in - basically the Shanny offense. Kirk showed flashes of better play in that offense but was a TO machine - kind of like last year. Jay seemed to settle him down. It should be interesting though - in a good way. 

 

Good Ds - I wrote several posts while Kirk here that was more specific that this - it's good pass rushes. He just does not respond well to quick pressure - but he can pick apart good secondaries if given just a little time. This is not that unusual for many QBs. But for Kirk, the problem is that if you get to him early he starts seeing ghosts.  One thing that can help that is a better run game that they never really developed here and for some reason MN took a huge step back last year despite getting a very explosive Dalvin Cook back. 

 

Interestingly enough, the MN D was total garbage the first half of the season and Kirk was carrying the team. As the season went on the D got its rythm and was playing very good ball but the O went backwards - badly. The Chicago game brought back bad memories of the Giants game with similar implications where Kirk turned in a similarly bad performance. 

 

So here is my bottom line - Kirk is a great rhythm passer that when not rushed can make all the throws and lead a team. But once you get some pressure on him - he just can't make things happen on the fly. Look at Wentz - Kirk is a much more talented QB in terms of athleticism and his ability to make reads and throws. But Wentz (pre-leg injury) is much better when improvising and when there is pressure around him. Who would you rather have? It's an honest question. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. 

 

I hope for Kirk's sake they fix these things. Fair or not fans expect Rogers like production with that contract. He is not that guy. But you give him a little better protection and reliable running game and MN could see themselves back in the NFC Championship game and who knows after that. He can make all the throws, he has generally good decision making skills unless really win a championship given the right support. 

 

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4 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I mostly agree - just a few differences maybe: 

 

Oline - Yea, the Oline got decimated here. It was not good in MN. Here is the problem - the MN oline was almost exactly the same from 2017 to 2018 with Tom Compton coming over to play LG. He took over for long time starter Joe Berger. So if I am a Vikings fan I look at that and say Case was able to make it happen, wtf happened to Kirk? To be fair, a few things also contributed to it - a new OC. The play calling looked a lot like what they did here - too pass heavy, no commitment to the run, get settled into the same plays too easily. I wonder if their new OC was trying to keep Kirk in a comfort zone. It worked early but then it fell apart. Zimmer - not one to stand still - goes and gets Kubiak to put his offense in - basically the Shanny offense. Kirk showed flashes of better play in that offense but was a TO machine - kind of like last year. Jay seemed to settle him down. It should be interesting though - in a good way. 

 

 

Yeah but didn't they lose 2 guards? 

 

http://www.startribune.com/report-vikings-starting-guard-nick-easton-likely-out-for-the-year-after-neck-surgery/490473971/

The Vikings, who already were trying to replace one of their starting guards from the 2017 season, likely will spend the year without their other returning starter.

 

6 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Good Ds - I wrote several posts while Kirk here that was more specific that this - it's good pass rushes. He just does not respond well to quick pressure - but he can pick apart good secondaries if given just a little time. This is not that unusual for many QBs. But for Kirk, the problem is that if you get to him early he starts seeing ghosts.  One thing that can help that is a better run game that they never really developed here and for some reason MN took a huge step back last year despite getting a very explosive Dalvin Cook back. 

 

Agree, I've done it in more detail in the past too.  You hit him early and then you can get away with feigning pressure and he gets jittery.  If you shut down the run game at the same time that's the kicker.  Then that's the formula to stop him.  That's what happened in both the Carolina and Giants game.

 

8 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

So here is my bottom line - Kirk is a great rhythm passer that when not rushed can make all the throws and lead a team. But once you get some pressure on him - he just can't make things happen on the fly. Look at Wentz - Kirk is a much more talented QB in terms of athleticism and his ability to make reads and throws. But Wentz (pre-leg injury) is much better when improvising and when there is pressure around him. Who would you rather have? It's an honest question. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. 

 

 

i think Wentz is better.  Kirk to me is a good to very good QB.   This part of my point isn't directed to you.   Kirk by a mile IMO is the best QB we've had post the SB run.   He had a bad end of last season. I can't dress it up as anything else.  How much does that vindicate the FO?  IMO on a scale of 0-100.  It's at a 0.  To me its nada.   I am bringing that point up because my emotion on Kirk was usually about the contract and how it was handled.  The trials and tribulations of Kirk as a player to me had little to do with that.  Even on the Kirk thread, I'd slam him if he had bad games.   I never had a defend the dude no matter what mentality (I don't think any of us did from what I recall)

 

14 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I hope for Kirk's sake they fix these things. Fair or not fans expect Rogers like production with that contract. He is not that guy. But you give him a little better protection and reliable running game and MN could see themselves back in the NFC Championship game and who knows after that. He can make all the throws, he has generally good decision making skills unless really win a championship given the right support. 

 

 

I've met Kirk multiple times.  Good dude.  But i admit I am not as interested now because Bruce's neck is on the line with or without Kirk it seems.    I am really tempted to go to that Minny game next year.    My gut is he has a bounce back season.  He was on fire in the first half.  He has it in him to succeed.  But who knows, will see. 

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10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah but didn't they lose 2 guards? 

 

http://www.startribune.com/report-vikings-starting-guard-nick-easton-likely-out-for-the-year-after-neck-surgery/490473971/

The Vikings, who already were trying to replace one of their starting guards from the 2017 season, likely will spend the year without their other returning starter.

 

Easton did not finish their season so they had someone else starting. They had similar injury issues so fair enough. But honestly, I still do not see a huge difference in the talent level of their Oline from 2017 to 2018. Maybe play calling and scheme? Maybe i am wrong. I guess my question is was the Oline really that much worse or was it put in worse positions? I do not know the answer to that. Just posing the thought. 

 

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Agree, I've done it in more detail in the past too.  You hit him early and then you can get away with feigning pressure and he gets jittery.  If you shut down the run game at the same time that's the kicker.  Then that's the formula to stop him.  That's what happened in both the Carolina and Giants game.

 

 

 

i think Wentz is better.  Kirk to me is a good to very good QB.   This part of my point isn't directed to you.   Kirk by a mile IMO is the best QB we've had post the SB run.   He had a bad end of last season. I can't dress it up as anything else.  How much does that vindicate the FO?  IMO on a scale of 0-100.  It's at a 0.  To me its nada.   I am bringing that point up because my emotion on Kirk was usually about the contract and how it was handled.  The trials and tribulations of Kirk as a player to me had little to do with that.  Even on the Kirk thread, I'd slam him if he had bad games.   I never had a defend the dude no matter what mentality (I don't think any of us did from what I recall)

 

I did not really address FO impact - so yea my thought always was more about how they handled things than the actual QB decision. I am Redskins fan first, not a player. But if they decided he was not the guy, then move on. Stop with this franchise tag thing. Trade him and get something for him. So i agree, Kirk's play provides 0 vindication for the FO. They could not have handled things any worse. In effect they trade QBs (Alex for Kirk) by swapping a known 3rd slot CB (and before anyone says he was not that good in KC, just stop it. The fact is he was good here and after a slow start in a new system, he played very well for them the last half of the season) and saved about $5M/yr to get a 4 yr older QB who is slightly less athletic but is in fairness more careful with the ball. Considering what others have gotten for back-up QBs, much less a starter in his prime, good grief what a colossal **** up. 

 

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I've met Kirk multiple times.  Good dude.  But i admit I am not as interested now because Bruce's neck is on the line with or without Kirk it seems.    I am really tempted to go to that Minny game next year.    My gut is he has a bounce back season.  He was on fire in the first half.  He has it in him to succeed.  But who knows, will see. 

 

I am mostly with you here. But while Kirk mostly comes off like a good guy, he has had some moments that have really given me pause - the biggest was when he shoved the ref in charity game. Had he done that in an NFL game he would have heavily fined and suspended 6 games or more. It's a line you don't cross and he did it during a charity game with volunteer!  Then there are some of his tweets like the one that started this conversation. 

 

Either way, I am not that invested in his success or failure Just found the conversation interesting based on his performance here and there. And despite the comments above I hope he does well for him. 

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Shanahan's recent comments only hammer home the point that you don't give Cousins that kind of money; he's not that caliber player. You take that cash and spread it around to acquire (or keep) talent that will help him to succeed. I like the kid, but he's not even close to being the kind of QB who can carry an offense. That deal he signed shows his greed and the Minnesota FO's stupidity.

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Some interesting discussion on Cousins by what I assume are two Vikings sports talk guys--the first segment on Kirk starts at 16:35 - 27:00 and continues at 31:07..there are some insights into past Vikings QBs Favre, Keenum and Bridgewater along with some on Cousins that only Vikings fans and Vikings beat writers would probably know:

 

 

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Its funny how fast they agree with me after only having him for one year. 

 

There was someone in this thread telling me how stupid my opinion was because none of the people that "do this for a living" agreed with me. One day ima be petty enough to go back and quote you. 

 

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Amused to see the pro-Kirk guys still in here bloviating about the Vikings O-Line.  Time to give up the ghost, boys.

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54 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Its funny how fast they agree with me after only having him for one year. 

 

There was someone in this thread telling me how stupid my opinion was because none of the people that "do this for a living" agreed with me. One day ima be petty enough to go back and quote you. 

 

I don't know why people thought Kirk would go to Minnesota and change. Last year was his seventh year. Those bad habits won't disappear.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, CrypticVillain said:

 

I don't know why people thought Kirk would go to Minnesota and change. Last year was his seventh year. Those bad habits won't disappear.

 

 

 

Only his second year starting! 

 

Edit: For serious though. There was alot to like about Cousins. Unfortunately he did everything he could **** that up for us including chasing that money. There were A LOT of media members in DC who were willing to excuses that and really fell for the guy. Pair that with the hate for Bruce Allen that some how makes people incapable of seeing things at face value and you have a perfect recipe for delusion. And thats before you add in all the people doing it to spite Griffin and his fans, of which im sure there were many. DC is just that kind of town. That **** doesnt really fly outside of here as much. 

Edited by Llevron
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5 hours ago, Llevron said:

 

Only his second year starting! 

 

Edit: For serious though. There was alot to like about Cousins. Unfortunately he did everything he could **** that up for us including chasing that money. There were A LOT of media members in DC who were willing to excuses that and really fell for the guy. Pair that with the hate for Bruce Allen that some how makes people incapable of seeing things at face value and you have a perfect recipe for delusion. And thats before you add in all the people doing it to spite Griffin and his fans, of which im sure there were many. DC is just that kind of town. That **** doesnt really fly outside of here as much. 

 

Nailed it.  The Cousins fiasco exposed us as probably the whiniest, most petulant fan base in professional sports.  Now, you could argue that’s a result of being abused by Snyder for a generation...and that’s a fair point.  But there’s been plenty of franchises with bad owners and their fan bases never went this sideways over a journeyman bum with a taste for the good life.

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I was completely believing that Cousins would improve year after year and by the age of 31-32 would be close to elite. I don't believe that anymore. just feels as if he hasn't really improved over the last 2 years or so...that this is his ceiling. He won't throw 35 TDs...he won't will his team to a victory in an absolute must-win scenario against another good team--meaning, the playoffs or a win or go home scenario. He won't consistently inspire his teammates...it'll be sporadic at best. His ability to make off-schedule plays won't improve. He will have his share of serious brain-fart "WTF?" moments, and I'm not talking ill-timed turnovers. Every QB has those. And this will be Kirk every season the rest of his contract in Minny and beyond. That's my belief, anyway...could be wrong but don't think I am.

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Not to re-iterate a dead horse, but even most of the "don't pay Kirk that kind of money" guys on this board have said before that under the right conditions you can win with Kirk.  The problem is that "the right conditions" are those that you can't normally keep intact season to season.  At some point for sustained success you need a franchise QB that has certain intangibles that Kirk has not displayed. 

 

Despite me not being broken up about Kirk leaving, I still assumed he would do better in Minnesota than he did, but then you also have to remember that ever since the Shanahan days his NFL career had mostly consisted of offenses where he is making quick reads, short high percentage throws, with the occasional downfield pass.  He has never been the guy to go vertical consistently and push the ball downfield. 

 

I am sure Minnesota will shore up some loose ends and Kirk will improve with them, but his ceiling is still going to show.  There is just no getting around the fact that he isn't worth the money Minnesota paid him.

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So the Eagles opted out of the Franchise tag and are gonna let SUPER BOWL MVP NicknFoles hit the free agent market.  No trade because they had no offers that were stronger than the 3rd round compensatory pick.

 

I thought that kind of thing never happened.  I guess the Eagles are just super incompetent.

 

 

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1 hour ago, TryTheBeal! said:

So the Eagles opted out of the Franchise tag and are gonna let SUPER BOWL MVP NicknFoles hit the free agent market.  No trade because they had no offers that were stronger than the 3rd round compensatory pick.

 

I thought that kind of thing never happened.  I guess the Eagles are just super incompetent.

 

 

 

I came to post this exact thought. Oh my how many arguments and time I spent on this. 

 

The value for middle tier guys in a trade is just as much there contract as their play. Just like the holy grail argument of Sam Bradford fetching the Eagles a 1st, dismissing his main value was his contract (2yrs 25 mil and allowed Vikings to pay 7 mil for the 2016, keeping team intact). 

 

 

Edited by wit33

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8 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said:

So the Eagles opted out of the Franchise tag and are gonna let SUPER BOWL MVP NicknFoles hit the free agent market.  No trade because they had no offers that were stronger than the 3rd round compensatory pick.

 

I thought that kind of thing never happened.  I guess the Eagles are just super incompetent.

 

 

You’ve gotta be kidding with this pile of doo-doo.  The same Eagles who fleeced the Redskins for McNugget? that got value for Sam Bradford? that were solid forever, burnt to flames, and won a SB shortly thereafter? the same Eagles that also have Carson Wentz?

 

We could only wish that our situation was even remotely anything like theirs.  If the Skins had a Carson Wentz type QB, nobody would care about Cousins or what they got for him.  When you haven’t had anything remotely resembling a competent starter for decades, and when you do you pay him 44M over 2 seasons to take a looksie and get nothing in return, and then double down on it by overpaying for his replacement, yeah -it’s safe to say you’re incompetent.

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome
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