Redskins receiving corp is beginning to shape up

[Malapropismic Depository]

11 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

 

I think Cam Sims, or Terry McLaurin may turn out to be “thee guy.”

 

 

Heh, I almost tagged you in my quote about Sims, just above yours.

14 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

 

I have hope.  I know hope is a four letter word around here.

 

 

What'll really get em started is if you use the word "potential"...especially in reference to Doctson, lol

[KillBill26]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

My question is, why are the Redskins targeting "special teamers only" in the 3rd round.  You should still be targeting guys that you feel will be a solid starter for you eventually, not just someone who is going to play special teams.  If you didn't think he was much of a wr, you shouldn't be taking him that early.

 

Needless to say, looks like the Redskins backed their way into making a solid pick.  Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile.  

[Skinsinparadise]

52 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

"Not even close" ?

Hmmm, if you consider all the constant, glowing reports about Sims, you would think that it's at least "close" between those 2.

 

Might be a different rap between what beat guys are thinking versus coaches.  I touted Sims' practices too but I noticed he was playing with the 3's a lot, McLaurin with the 1's.  That narrative seemed to extend to the first preseason game where McLaurin was treated like kid gloves and brought in for just one rep early and Sims was brought in later on. 

[HardcoreZorn]

3 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

My question is, why are the Redskins targeting "special teamers only" in the 3rd round.  You should still be targeting guys that you feel will be a solid starter for you eventually, not just someone who is going to play special teams.  If you didn't think he was much of a wr, you shouldn't be taking him that early.

 

Needless to say, looks like the Redskins backed their way into making a solid pick.  Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile.  

 

Special teams is a critical part of winning games in the NFL and if you have a chance to grab one of the best STs in the mid rounds that’s not a terrible thing. But I don’t think Hoffman meant they viewed him as a STer only, rather they thought they were getting a Bonafide stud on teams and a pass catcher. They didn’t realize he was this good as a WR, and if they had they probably target him even earlier.

[Jericho]

1 hour ago, KillBill26 said:

My question is, why are the Redskins targeting "special teamers only" in the 3rd round.  You should still be targeting guys that you feel will be a solid starter for you eventually, not just someone who is going to play special teams.  If you didn't think he was much of a wr, you shouldn't be taking him that early.

 

Needless to say, looks like the Redskins backed their way into making a solid pick.  Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile.  

 

As @HardcoreZorn stated, the team isn't saying they drafted a "special teamer only" in McLaurin. What they are saying is they thought he was the best special teamer in the draft who was also a decent WR. But now what they're saying is he's an even better WR then they thought he was. I mean most 3rd rounder don't start Week 1 of their rookie year. So he's exceeded expectations, regardless of the special teams factor.

[Malapropismic Depository]

2 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

Special teams is a critical part of winning games in the NFL and if you have a chance to grab one of the best STs in the mid rounds that’s not a terrible thing. But I don’t think Hoffman meant they viewed him as a STer only, rather they thought they were getting a Bonafide stud on teams and a pass catcher. They didn’t realize he was this good as a WR, and if they had they probably target him even earlier.

 

Lettuce not forget the 3rd huge benefit to drafting McClaurin, being the built-in chemistry he has with Haskins.

[Skinsinparadise]

I don't dislike Doctson and don't see him as a bust but I haven't seen anything to think he's more than a #3 type.  More importantly, I am more intrigued with the new crop of receivers.  So it should be interesting to see if all this buzz about Doctson not making the roster has any legs to it.

 

 

 

 

...“It says he wants it,” Norman said. “It says he wants not to just to be good — he wants to be great. A lot of people don’t have that. Hell, you can tell who goes in (after practice) and who stays out.”

Harmon wasn’t the first player to approach Norman for extra reps outside of practice. But the players who usually ask, Norman said, are fellow defensive backs.

 

...Still, when Norman describes Harmon, he draws a comparison to a wide receiver that’s already great, one of the best — if not the best — in the league: Julio Jones.

 

“He’s a little baby Julio if you ask me,” said Norman, who used to regularly face Jones when he was with the Carolina Panthers. “He has the ability. He has the size. It’s just getting him acclimated, getting him in, getting him going. I mean, he looks great out here, fantastic.”

 

Norman said he wants Harmon to get more playing time, adding the rookie can become an elite-level receiver if he gets the opportunity.

 

Coach Jay Gruden has admitted it has been “tricky” to find the right amount of reps for his receivers in camp, but noted he feels good about all of them. Last week in his preseason debut against the Cleveland Browns, Harmon received 20 offensive snaps and caught two passes for 17 yards.

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/aug/12/kelvin-harmon-turns-josh-norman-effort-be-great/

Edited August 12, 2019 by Skinsinparadise

[robotfire]

4 hours ago, KillBill26 said:

My question is, why are the Redskins targeting "special teamers only" in the 3rd round.  You should still be targeting guys that you feel will be a solid starter for you eventually, not just someone who is going to play special teams.  If you didn't think he was much of a wr, you shouldn't be taking him that early.

 

Needless to say, looks like the Redskins backed their way into making a solid pick.  Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile.  

They said he was the top special teamer on their board.  ST is also really underrated.

[KillBill26]

4 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

Special teams is a critical part of winning games in the NFL and if you have a chance to grab one of the best STs in the mid rounds that’s not a terrible thing. But I don’t think Hoffman meant they viewed him as a STer only, rather they thought they were getting a Bonafide stud on teams and a pass catcher. They didn’t realize he was this good as a WR, and if they had they probably target him even earlier.

 

3 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

As @HardcoreZorn stated, the team isn't saying they drafted a "special teamer only" in McLaurin. What they are saying is they thought he was the best special teamer in the draft who was also a decent WR. But now what they're saying is he's an even better WR then they thought he was. I mean most 3rd rounder don't start Week 1 of their rookie year. So he's exceeded expectations, regardless of the special teams factor.

I agree with you on teams, it can determine a win or loss multiple times throughout a season.  I interpreted the Hoffman blurb that the Redskins thought he'd be decent but not special, and I think a team with as many holes as the Redskins ie LG, FS, offensive skill, etc, that we shouldn't be drafting targeting special teams as early as the 3rd, and definitely shouldn't be settling for someone you consider "decent", but I don't know to what degree the Redskins viewed him just solely as a wr.  A guy you think can be a 10 year, productive starter at wr, but also excels at special teams?Absolutely!  But just a rotational guy at wr but you really like his teams skills.  Not that early.

 

And Im not knocking the pick.  Special teams aside, I thought we needed that skill set at wr and loved the familiarity with Haskins as MD mentioned above.  Even if he isn't a starter this year, he is giving many the impression he can make an impact in this league and have a nice career.  That's what you aim for in the 3rd, too early to go special teams player or any specialized player, which is how I initially interpreted it.

 

PS - I probably misinterpreted the blurb.  😁

[Skinsinparadise]

I agree with the special teams WR comments.  The way I took Jay's comments is he knew that McLaurin was an elite special teams player (some scouts said he was the best special teams player in the draft) and a good receiver but didn't know he was a very good receiver.  Hoffman is using the word "special" as to McLaurin. Knowing Hoffman's style, I would bet that one of the team's scouts told him that.  He among the beat guys seems to be the tightest with scouts or so it appears because he was the one beat guy before the draft that kept saying he was speaking to multiple team scouts. 

 

McLaurin had 11 TDs, a great YPC and catch % even though he wasn't the main guy featured in that offense.  So I don't think its that crazy wild that the dude is this good.  Though I admit although I pushed him among others before the draft -- am surprised to hear he is this level good.  But thinking about it, a player who can run a 4.35, is smart, with great intangibles and catches most of what's thrown to him -- that's a good recipe for success.  

Edited August 13, 2019 by Skinsinparadise

[kingdaddy]

5 hours ago, KillBill26 said:

My question is, why are the Redskins targeting "special teamers only" in the 3rd round.  You should still be targeting guys that you feel will be a solid starter for you eventually, not just someone who is going to play special teams.  If you didn't think he was much of a wr, you shouldn't be taking him that early.

 

Needless to say, looks like the Redskins backed their way into making a solid pick.  Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile.  

Great question. They took Apke last year for similar reasons? Thank God they didn't go kicker, punter or long snapper in the 3rd round and grabbed McClaurin.

[RandyHolt]

Interesting to see my cut Doctson vision is gaining traction. Did anyone else before me say they think he is a cut candidate?

 

To me, Bruce not taking the 5th option spoke volumes.  Now we keep hearing he cannot get separation. Where was this news the past 3 seasons? 

 

He has one foot out the door and only needs a little push from one of McLaurin Sims or Harmon to make it happen.

Edited August 13, 2019 by RandyHolt

[kingdaddy]

50 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Interesting to see my cut Doctson vision is gaining traction. Did anyone else before me say they think he is a cut candidate?

 

To me, Bruce not taking the 5th option spoke volumes.  Now we keep hearing he cannot get separation. Where was this news the past 3 seasons? 

 

He has one foot out the door and only needs a little push from one of McLaurin Sims or Harmon to make it happen.

I did...you and I have been on the same page. We can't cut some of these other guys just to keep Doc. Kidzy can play as can the other notables. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

Interesting to see my cut Doctson vision is gaining traction. Did anyone else before me say they think he is a cut candidate?

 

 

I posted it back in April, that he would be cut this year.

That was way before it was cool to say it. 😀

Edited August 13, 2019 by Malapropismic Depository

[Jericho]

Still don't buy the cut Doctson statements. He's a legit NFL player. And those guys have value. Even if you don't want Doctson, seems you could easily trade him. Even if its just for a low round pick. The Ravens just traded an undrafted kicker for a 5th round pick (still can't say I get that one, dude was a career 62.5% kicker in college. Went completely undrafted in 2018, has never played an NFL down, and no team wanted except the team with the best kicker in the league. And a few good preseason games and it all changes? Kickers are fickle. Maybe Kaare Vedvik ends up good. And maybe the Tampa Bucs burned a 2nd rounder on Roberto Aguayo). Anyhow. Point being, you shouldn't cut a receiver like Doctson, you should trade him.

[Commander -JB-]

I just wanna know how can anybody, with a straight face, say that Josh Doctson isn't a bust?  He has been mostly terrible with too many drops and not really any truly huge impact plays aside from the great catch Vs Seattle a couple years back.  He has been really bad.

[Skinsinparadise]

There are plenty of WR busts including first rounders.  Doctson is a bonafide WR.  It's not a joke when he is in the lineup.  This isn't Devin Thomas and the series of high round busts we've seen in the NFL.  He's not a legit #1 receiver, arguably not a #2 either.   But I think he's a decent #3.  That's not what you bargained for as for a first rounder but that's a different topic.  Plenty of first rounders are outright busts.  If Doctson was taken in the third round I don't think this would even be a topic.  He's not awful.   If he leaves here, slam dunk, IMO he will get a job.  If he was a bust, he'd be out of the NFL by now or on the verge of it. 

 

Having said that, I heard on the radio today that he liked Sua Cravens' posts?  If so I doubt its going to help him if he's on the verge of not making the roster. 

9 hours ago, Jericho said:

And maybe the Tampa Bucs burned a 2nd rounder on Roberto Aguayo). Anyhow. Point being, you shouldn't cut a receiver like Doctson, you should trade him.

 According to Keim they tried to trade him last year.  I gather they couldn't get what they wanted.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 According to Keim they tried to trade him last year.  I gather they couldn't get what they wanted.

 

Wha?  Really?  Huh.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Wha?  Really?  Huh.

 

Yeah he snuck it into an ESPN article this off season and doubled down on it via a podcast. 

 

https://theteam980.com/121964/john-keim-with-al-galdi-on-ereck-flowers-redskins-free-agency-jay-grudens-involvement/

John Keim with Al Galdi On Ereck Flowers, Redskins Free Agency & Jay Gruden’s Involvement

ESPN Redskins Insider John Keim joins The Morning Blitz with Al Galdi with all the latest on the Redskins! John gives his take on the signing of Ereck Flowers and how much of an impact he’ll make on the offensive line. Also, what might be next for the Skins in free agency ? What was up with the Skins trying to trade Josh Doctson last offseason? Plus, how involved Jay Gruden has been in the Skins’ moves this offseason and more!

Edited August 13, 2019 by Skinsinparadise

[drowland]

12 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

Interesting to see my cut Doctson vision is gaining traction. Did anyone else before me say they think he is a cut candidate?

 

To me, Bruce not taking the 5th option spoke volumes.  Now we keep hearing he cannot get separation. Where was this news the past 3 seasons? 

 

He has one foot out the door and only needs a little push from one of McLaurin Sims or Harmon to make it happen.

 

It was always a possibility once they didn't exercise his 5th year.  If Doctson's not in their future plans (which he doesnt' appear to be), and they have young guys they like, I don't see the point in keeping him around and taking a roster spot from someone they think might have a future.  I think they'll try to trade him between now and final cuts.  Maybe they can trade him to the 49ers for OG Josh Garnett who's been a disappointment and keep churning the LG spot.  

Edited August 13, 2019 by drowland

[Warhead36]

There really is no value to cutting Doc unless the other WRs are just leaps and bounds better and I don't believe that's the case. It's not like he makes much in salary and even with all his flaws he's still more proven in the NFL than the likes of Cam Simms.

[KillBill26]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

There are plenty of WR busts including first rounders.  Doctson is a bonafide WR.  It's not a joke when he is in the lineup.  This isn't Devin Thomas and the series of high round busts we've seen in the NFL.  He's not a legit #1 receiver, arguably not a #2 either.   But I think he's a decent #3.  That's not what you bargained for as for a first rounder but that's a different topic.  

I think people are labeling doctson a bust bc he has not lived up to his first round potential.  We can all agree on that.  But at this point, where he was drafted is irrelevant, it's all about whether he can have a productive role on this team.  

 

I think doctson can be a productive rotational wr at the very least.  Maybe he takes the next step and becomes a more prominent perimeter / red zone threat we all envisioned.  Kind of frustrating knowing he has had three years to show us what he's got, and we all are disappointed, yet feel he still has the potential to show us more.  Although if gruden truly feels he is expendable bc he can't get separation, then maybe we have seen all that doctson has to offer.

 

Since we are not a team that is one or two years away, we are better off going with the younger guys.   I think the 5 young pups have a higher ceiling than doctson.  I think McLaurin and Quinn are locks, and I hope they keep sims, Davis, and Harmon, and then make a decision whether to cut/trade doc or p rich.  Can't keep 7 wrs, and if McLaurin can play the role p rich plays, I'd rather cut him loose and clear the cap space.

 

And I agree with above posters who mentioned that we should be able to get something in return for doctson, at least a 7th, but who knows.  P rich probably isn't getting us anything bc of the contract

Edited August 13, 2019 by KillBill26

[kingdaddy]

13 hours ago, Jericho said:

Still don't buy the cut Doctson statements. He's a legit NFL player. And those guys have value. Even if you don't want Doctson, seems you could easily trade him. Even if its just for a low round pick. The Ravens just traded an undrafted kicker for a 5th round pick (still can't say I get that one, dude was a career 62.5% kicker in college. Went completely undrafted in 2018, has never played an NFL down, and no team wanted except the team with the best kicker in the league. And a few good preseason games and it all changes? Kickers are fickle. Maybe Kaare Vedvik ends up good. And maybe the Tampa Bucs burned a 2nd rounder on Roberto Aguayo). Anyhow. Point being, you shouldn't cut a receiver like Doctson, you should trade him.

Trade him over cutting him is definitely option A, but cutting him might be the only option. The Skins have tipped their hand a bit by not picking up his option for next year so the writing is more than on the wall about what they think of him. If there are other WR's having great camps how can you keep Doc over them and then watch another team go and sign a Robert Davis or Cam Sims, Kidzy? Gruden is now on record as saying the talent they have at WR is gonna make it tough to decide who to cut, another sign that Doc could be the odd man out? To me it seems as though Doc is less hungry than the others and may even welcome a change of scenery. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 What was up with the Skins trying to trade Josh Doctson last offseason?

 

 

Well, that might 'splain his desire to side with Cravens on twitter lol..

[NeverSurrender]

17 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

Interesting to see my cut Doctson vision is gaining traction. Did anyone else before me say they think he is a cut candidate?

 

To me, Bruce not taking the 5th option spoke volumes.  Now we keep hearing he cannot get separation. Where was this news the past 3 seasons? 

 

He has one foot out the door and only needs a little push from one of McLaurin Sims or Harmon to make it happen.

Between the emergence on Scary Terry, Simms, Davis and Kidsey as well as the youth of Harmon, Quinn.  I think its time for Doctson to move on.  Hopefully we can trade him before the start of the season.  I believe all of the names listed above can put together the types of season Doctson has 35-44 catches 500-540 yards as a #1.  I have been wanting this more and more as camp has progressed.  Im right there with you, just would like us to get something for him.