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Redskins receiving corp is beginning to shape up


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4 minutes ago, carex said:

 

he's playing with Tom Brady

Very true, and I dont mean to suggest it really means anything just that it's much better than if he never made another roster again. 

 

And it's a sign that our problems could be more quarterback related than receiver related.

Edited by redskinss
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Yeah I'm not really all that surprised that a guy looks better when his QB is Tom Brady. Especially since Brady is also generally a pretty slot oriented guy and utilizes that and his TEs a fair amount.

 

Harris had some nice attributes (good size, good hands) but outside of that he didn't really do anything special besides make that one amazing catch. He wasn't very fast, wasn't very quick, and wasn't very good at beating DB press coverage (hence being better in the slot). I wish him the best in NE but like most times we lose a guy who there was a bit of a random man-crush on, we should take it with a grain of salt before bemoaning how we lost a future pro bowler or something.

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I'm more concerned that their FO identified him as a potential bargain for their system, got him cheaply and immediately changed his position, and might get results. I don't care about it from their end--that's the Patriots' MO and has been for a long time (not that it always works).

 

I care about it from our end. We had him in house and are watching someone else get the best of him, potentially. It's happened before and will happen again, all around the league. And I agree it might actually speak well to our depth (though Quinn needs to stay healthy for it not to be a regret). You just hate to see it. 

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23 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

I'm more concerned that their FO identified him as a potential bargain for their system, got him cheaply and immediately changed his position, and might get results. I don't care about it from their end--that's the Patriots' MO and has been for a long time (not that it always works).

 

I care about it from our end. We had him in house and are watching someone else get the best of him, potentially. It's happened before and will happen again, all around the league. And I agree it might actually speak well to our depth (though Quinn needs to stay healthy for it not to be a regret). You just hate to see it. 

It doesn't bother me too much. 

 

As you aforementioned, it happens all over the league. 

 

It really only bothers me if a player had significant visible talent and we couldn't use them properly, or if they go on to dominate elsewhere. (Ex. Mlb/Jake arrieta/bal to chi)

 

Sometimes players need a change in system or change in lifestyle to bring out the best of them. Harris may be one such player, but he never showed much and his opportunity here was minimal. Maybe he'll find a niche with a better qb. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, mistertim said:

@Malapropismic DepositoryCan you summarize for those of us without a subscription?

RICHMOND, Va. — Think of Scot McCloughan the NFL talent evaluator, and a single phrase comes to mind. The man just wants “football players.”

During his two years as general manager for the Washington Redskins, McCloughan repeated that mantra over and over. Listening to the grit and guttural intonation behind the words meant no additional definition required, but the football lifer passionately provides one when asked.

“It’s not just the talent level, but it’s the person you get, the character,” McCloughan told The Athletic last week. “The toughness, the competitiveness, the understanding that I’m fighting every day for my life. I’ve got to take care of my wife, my kids, my mom, whatever it is. You see that “It” factor. That’s when you’re rolling.”

McCloughan, considered a scouting savant by some, made two first-round selections in Washington. Brawling Pro Bowl left guard Brandon Scherff, the sixth overall selection in 2015, embodies that rugged ethos.

Josh Doctson does not.

Forget that the 2016 first-rounder has yet to veer anywhere near the production range of a go-to receiver, a significant factor in Washington’s decision to decline his fifth-year player option. Rating the introverted wide receiver against those traits McCloughan desires for “football players” is apples to oranges. For those entirely out on the fourth-year receiver with zero 100-yard games in his pro career, apples to lemons.

The longtime executive selected the former Texas Christian University standout 22nd overall. For those steeped in McCloughanisms, the connection never made sense.

“The thing about Josh that’s very unique — I wish I had known him personally better,” McCloughan said. “I kind of screwed up on that part.”

McCloughan moved to Colorado and returned to running his scouting service after a bitter finish in Washington that concluded during the 2017 offseason. Despite Doctson’s struggles, McCloughan won’t run away from his initial talent evaluation.

“What (Doctson) did in college was incredible,” McCloughan said during a phone interview.

At TCU, Doctson found the end zone 25 times over his final two seasons. During his senior campaign, he scored at least two touchdowns in a single game six times.

That production disappeared once the red-zone target jumped to the professional game.

Doctson’s struggles began immediately. He suffered a heel injury during the summer before his rookie season and played in only two regular-season games before landing on injured reserve.

Doctson finished 2018 with two touchdowns while setting uninspiring career bests with 44 receptions and 532 yards.

The Texas native, who transferred from Wyoming to TCU in part because of a case of homesickness, freely acknowledges he lacked contentment upon arriving with Washington.

“Oh, man. I know what’s going on,” Doctson said of his current mindset compared wit that first training camp. “I feel a lot more comfortable, man.”

McCloughan cannot put his finger on exactly what he missed with Doctson or why receivers often struggle upon entering the league. “For a receiver, it’s very hard,” he said.

He does grasp why some consider Doctson aloof, another attribute that stands in contrast to the “football player” vision.

“(Josh) is talented, but he doesn’t bring the prima donna outlook. Excited, emotional guy. That’s not him at all — but the guy can play football,” McCloughan said.

What intrigues McCloughan most about Doctson’s future is a specific and nearly identical example of a first-round receiver he once drafted who made a dramatic turnaround.

San Francisco selected Texas Tech standout Michael Crabtree 10th overall in 2009, McCloughan’s final year with the organization.

Like Doctson, Crabtree labored during his early seasons. While Doctson missed the bulk of his rookie season because of injuries, Crabtree did not make his debut until Week 7 because of a contract holdout. Athletic and personality similarities also exist.

“They’re both physical, big guys. They’re both quiet guys. They’re not really outgoing where the fans like them and the media like them. They’re not going to say much at all,” McCloughan said.

Crabtree’s breakout season came in 2011 with 72 receptions. He finished with 1,105 yards and nine touchdowns for the NFC champions the following season. The 10-year veteran later posted quality numbers for Oakland and played 16 games for Baltimore in 2018.

“The thing with Crabtree is he’s come through so far and had a good career, but it took him 3-4 years in San Fran to get where he’s at,” McCloughan said. “I think it’s going to be the same thing with Doctson. I think his best football is definitely ahead of him.”

Doctson lacks the diva quality McCloughan referenced and most associate with NFL receivers. That’s partly because he’s a thinker and self-aware.

“When you get in the league as a first-round talent and going through some injuries, hearing some different comments, it kind of takes you a step back,” Doctson told The Athletic after Sunday’s morning practice. “It’s just kind of a natural instinct from human nature. You don’t really understand most things.”

Now 26, Doctson has life experiences that include a trip to war-torn Rwanda earlier this year, and those have helped provide needed perspective.

“I understand the game and what’s going on more so these days, not just outside but inside. I understand where my position is at, and I (can) be happy where I’m at in life at 26 years old and what I’m able to do for my family and generations to come,” he said.

Doctson won’t become one of those players grasping for every last breath of a career, but the perspective he gained has helped him find fulfillment while in the game.

“I wouldn’t say this is my purpose, but this is my passion currently, or I wouldn’t be playing,” Doctson said. “You have to be passionate out here, or you’ll get hurt. I think I’ve been healthy the last two full years because I was passionate about my NFL career. You’ve got to be. … I’m definitely passionate about the sport. I love it, but like I said, it’s not my end purpose. I won’t fulfill my purpose at 30 years old. I still have hopefully another 60 years to live after that. We’ll see what goes on after these next few years.”

Josh Doctson catches a touchdown pass against Atlanta last season. (Geoff Burke / USA Today) The player who retreated from the spotlight as a rookie now takes pride in his leadership role for a receiver unit that on Week 1 might include four first- or second-year players in Trey Quinn, Terry McLaurin, Kelvin Harmon and Cam Sims. Doctson, Paul Richardson and Quinn are the projected starters.

“It’s cool, man. Being able to watch these young guys come in here just like you (did), I think that’s neat. You can see yourself in them. How they are just stargazing a bit (and) wondering what to do, what’s next,” Doctson said. “To be that comfort zone for them and point them in the right direction. It’s neat. I definitely appreciate it.”

Even if the 2019 campaign turns into the most productive of Doctson’s career, it might become the final one with Washington.

“When it’s all said and done if it’s with the Redskins, great. If elsewhere, he’ll be a good player,” McCloughan said.

Since his arrival, Doctson has watched Pierre Garcon, DeSean Jackson and good friend Jamison Crowder play out their contracts before signing elsewhere.

“I’m a realist,” Doctson said. “Bittersweet moment. I’m just trying to take it all in, and we’ll see where it goes after this one.”

The Redskins have significant uncertainty along the offensive line and a quarterback battle brewing. Finding stability at wide receiver could help smooth those trouble spots. Doctson’s size and speed combined with experience in Washington’s offense make him an ideal candidate.

If the football passion arrives in abundance on Sundays, the Redskins may have another “football player” on the roster.

“What I saw in (Josh),” McCloughan said, “I’m not giving up on him yet.”

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Maybe we should trade for this guy?  I got my doubts about it but if it is really true then talk about the power of Brady...

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001037736/article/nfl-training-camp-winnerslosers-seven-rookies-creating-a-buzz

Maurice Harris, wide receiver, New England Patriots: File the following under sentences I never expected to writeMaurice Harris has been talked up as the best receiver in New England's camp by nearly every Patriots beat writer, with Greg Bedard of Boston Sports Journal saying it's by a "good margin." That doesn't bode well for the strength of the group as a whole, but it's not too early to expect Harris, the undrafted former Redskins receiver, to have a role on Sundays in the autumn.

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Maybe we should trade for this guy?  I got my doubts about it but if it is really true then talk about the power of Brady...

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001037736/article/nfl-training-camp-winnerslosers-seven-rookies-creating-a-buzz

Maurice Harris, wide receiver, New England Patriots: File the following under sentences I never expected to writeMaurice Harris has been talked up as the best receiver in New England's camp by nearly every Patriots beat writer, with Greg Bedard of Boston Sports Journal saying it's by a "good margin." That doesn't bode well for the strength of the group as a whole, but it's not too early to expect Harris, the undrafted former Redskins receiver, to have a role on Sundays in the autumn.

Harris better than Edelman? I highly doubt that. 

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I just had a vision Doctson was cut before the 53.   I know it sounds cray cray but if our WR corpse is really coming to life, its going to be the kids beating expectations.  If Josh is that good that we cannot cut him, we can possibly then trade him.  As per usual they all look fantastic in camp....

 

Life without Josh

 

Sims and Richardson outside.  Quinn in the slot.  McLaurin and 1 or 2 of Quick Davis or Harmon.  It sure doesn't seem that far fetched to me.... but wonder who is our backup slot.   Of course, injuries are inevitable for us at all positions and Doc was the only healthy one in the bunch last year. Ok Quick too.

 

If we keep Doctson a WR for sure will be getting snatched off our PS! 

Edited by RandyHolt
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39 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I just had a vision Doctson was cut before the 53.   I know it sounds cray cray but if our WR corpse is really coming to life, its going to be the kids beating expectations.  If Josh is that good that we cannot cut him, we can possibly then trade him.  As per usual they all look fantastic in camp....

 

Life without Josh

 

Sims and Richardson outside.  Quinn in the slot.  McLaurin and 1 or 2 of Quick Davis or Harmon.  It sure doesn't seem that far fetched to me.... but wonder who is our backup slot.   Of course, injuries are inevitable for us at all positions and Doc was the only healthy one in the bunch last year. Ok Quick too.

 

If we keep Doctson a WR for sure will be getting snatched off our PS! 

 

Even though he's a one-trick pony, I'm still gonna miss Josh's one trick.

I mean, noone else on the team can do that trick as well, can they ?

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4 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Even though he's a one-trick pony, I'm still gonna miss Josh's one trick.

I mean, noone else on the team can do that trick as well, can they ?

 

One caveat to my vision... I want to know if Haskins clicks with Doctson. I know Josh is all but gone next year, but feel like some QBs just click with certain WRs, target them more than others.... I doubt it happens though, And Keenum sure seems set to get first dibs on bonding with our starting WRs. The backup QB? They always love them some backup WR.

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2 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

 

One caveat to my vision... I want to know if Haskins clicks with Doctson. I know Josh is all but gone next year, but feel like some QBs just click with certain WRs, target them more than others.... I doubt it happens though....

 

If you read up on the Doctson thread I posted there how Josh says chemistry is so important between a QB and his WR. I think anyone who watches football pretty much knows how true that is. Doctson timing was the death of him here. He could have been that WR when Kirk was here. But when Doctson came back close to 100% he had to work with 5 different QB in one season and he still had better numbers than the year before. 

 

If Haskins starts all 16 games he can make Doctson a very good WR... for his future team though. 

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6 hours ago, zskins said:

 

If you read up on the Doctson thread I posted there how Josh says chemistry is so important between a QB and his WR. I think anyone who watches football pretty much knows how true that is. Doctson timing was the death of him here. He could have been that WR when Kirk was here. But when Doctson came back close to 100% he had to work with 5 different QB in one season and he still had better numbers than the year before. 

 

If Haskins starts all 16 games he can make Doctson a very good WR... for his future team though. 

 

Great post. And you kind of hit home on a bigger point.

 

This may be the first time anyone bothered to mention the QB (I will add OC & Playbook) carousel is detrimental to a young WR, but its true. We are fixated on the development of a QB, and when they fail, proclaim they just sucked!!!1! and wait for the next QB to fail. Fact is a QB and WR's fates are largely together, for they both need competent consistent play from one another to succeed.    Chemistry, timing, consistent play calls.... Even with 2 guys in the same system together, they need that playbook using both to their strengths as they try to find their way out to their niche in the league. A  new playbook or terminology or QB or WR group every year must totally suck ass.

 

Again great point re: the QB carousel for him. I will add in his time with Kirk, Kirk was afraid to throw a contested ball, even in practice - so he didn't get even get to practice his niche 🤦‍♂️.  Know that I don't really want Josh gone, I just had a vision that he needs a strong camp to keep the kids at bay.  I was hoping he drank protein shakes and added 10 pounds to cement his spot and add to his frame. But coupled with Bruce choosing to not ink him for his 5th year option shows Bruce's hand - Josh is not a part of our future. Well you know what, the future is now and Bruce decided the clock was ticking on him.  It's only a question of how fast the countdown is. 

 

And if ES is any indicator... Josh Doctson doesn't care. Really, that is STILL his thread here? 

Edited by RandyHolt
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9 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

I just had a vision Doctson was cut before the 53.   I know it sounds cray cray but if our WR corpse is really coming to life, its going to be the kids beating expectations.  If Josh is that good that we cannot cut him, we can possibly then trade him.  As per usual they all look fantastic in camp....

 

Life without Josh

 

Sims and Richardson outside.  Quinn in the slot.  McLaurin and 1 or 2 of Quick Davis or Harmon.  It sure doesn't seem that far fetched to me.... but wonder who is our backup slot.   Of course, injuries are inevitable for us at all positions and Doc was the only healthy one in the bunch last year. Ok Quick too.

 

If we keep Doctson a WR for sure will be getting snatched off our PS! 

There's no way Quick makes this team. If he does we're in very bad shape at wideout. 

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24 minutes ago, RawRebel said:

There's no way Quick makes this team. If he does we're in very bad shape at wideout. 

 

Injuries decimated our WR group last year.  2 of them couldn't survive their first game and those 2 sure seem to be being counted on this year, or are closing on being locks to make the team.

 

Somehow Quick keeps hanging around. So, I no longer count him out. The only thing he (and vets) may have on the kids is durability. At the end of the day, durability is damn important. It's something that sure seems to take many of the WR kids a few years to work through.  Lets see the kids survive preseason before counting Mike Quick out.

 

Heck PRich may be more injury prone than the kids, but should face a light preseason workload. HEH I sure haven't heard his name mentioned at all in camp.

 

The ironic thing about Quick? He may not be durable at all, he just so rarely plays his chance of getting injured are minimized :ols: but he is a big dude so that presume helps.

Edited by RandyHolt
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Brian Quick is a poor man's Ryan Grant. Speaking of which, Grant got one TD last season and is now with the Raiders. Did I ever mention that he was overrated by Gruden?

Edited by NickyJ
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10 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

In other news, sounds like Maurice Harris has won a starting role in the WR corps with the Patriots...

 

If there's one thing we know by now it's that the Pats are an anomaly. It's the one place where basically any WR can be a star. But how many WRs come out of NE and are stars elsewhere? This doesn't mean Harris is an amazing WR, it means that Brady is the GOAT, they have a really good and flexible offensive system, and Harris happens to mesh somewhat well with both. I think wringing our hands over letting him go due to him doing well in NE is misplaced. It doesn't mean anything as far as what he'd likely be able to do here. Brandon Lloyd even looked good with Brady throwing to him. 

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Good point on Lloyd. If Mo ends up with 100 catches though, heads will explode.


I cannot be the only one that thought he was going to produce much more than he did here. He did have a mini breakout last year, which went fully unacknowledged of course, as we were mired in our misery. 

 

He had that Odell Beckham grade one handed catch 2 years ago, and then vanished the rest of the season.  I heard someone say he was slow at some point, which i figured was the problem. But watching him on the field, seemed decent WRT to his size.

 

If he explodes, he may be the first WR in modern history to do so - who logged less than 20 (maybe it was 25 or 30?) catches in his first 2 years combined. I heard that stat mentioned during XM Fantasy chatter a year ago, and no one has found a bonafide WR whose stats discredit it.

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3 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

Good point on Lloyd. If Mo ends up with 100 catches though, heads will explode.


I cannot be the only one that thought he was going to produce much more than he did here. He did have a mini breakout last year, which went fully unacknowledged of course, as we were mired in our misery. 

 

He had that Odell Beckham grade one handed catch 2 years ago, and then vanished the rest of the season.  I heard someone say he was slow at some point, which i figured was the problem. But watching him on the field, seemed decent WRT to his size.

 

If he explodes, he may be the first WR in modern history to do so - who logged less than 20 (maybe it was 25 or 30?) catches in his first 2 years combined. I heard that stat mentioned during XM Fantasy chatter a year ago, and no one has found a bonafide WR whose stats discredit it.

 

Theilen had exactly 20 catches his first two seasons. He was the first guy to come to mind and I was correct, which probably goes to show that it is extremely rare. Exception that proves the rule and all. 

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17 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

Even though he's a one-trick pony, I'm still gonna miss Josh's one trick.

I mean, noone else on the team can do that trick as well, can they ?

 

He doesnt even do it well though.  

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