Redskins receiving corp is beginning to shape up

[ksun247]

I would definitely trade Doctson. Anything we can get for him is a plus.  Especially, if all the other WRs are making some noise given their limited playing time. Things Doctson just didn't do or seem capable of doing on a regular basis. 

 

By the way, why is Quinn automatically penciled in as the slot starter? He has health questions too. 

[sportjunkie07]

26 minutes ago, ksun247 said:

I would definitely trade Doctson. Anything we can get for him is a plus.  Especially, if all the other WRs are making some noise given their limited playing time. Things Doctson just didn't do or seem capable of doing on a regular basis. 

 

By the way, why is Quinn automatically penciled in as the slot starter? He has health questions too. 

The coaches need to decide now whether doctson is going to be a focal point of our offense this year. 

 

If yes, then keep him, let him have his year, then our comp pick situation looks better when he gets an overvauled free agency contract. 

 

If not, trade him for what we can get now because not playing him much during the season will eliminate his ability to get a new contract elsewhere and thus limit our comp picks. 

 

Kinda sucks for doctson because he needed to break out last year and he didn't have the support to do so. 

 

If they do drop doctson, I'm good with primarily utilizing Sims, prich, quinn, and mcclaurin. 

 

Edited August 13, 2019 by sportjunkie07

[Spaceman Spiff]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

There are plenty of WR busts including first rounders.  Doctson is a bonafide WR.  It's not a joke when he is in the lineup.  This isn't Devin Thomas and the series of high round busts we've seen in the NFL.  He's not a legit #1 receiver, arguably not a #2 either.   But I think he's a decent #3.  That's not what you bargained for as for a first rounder but that's a different topic.  Plenty of first rounders are outright busts.  If Doctson was taken in the third round I don't think this would even be a topic.  He's not awful.   If he leaves here, slam dunk, IMO he will get a job.  If he was a bust, he'd be out of the NFL by now or on the verge of it. 

 

Having said that, I heard on the radio today that he liked Sua Cravens' posts?  If so I doubt its going to help him if he's on the verge of not making the roster. 

 According to Keim they tried to trade him last year.  I gather they couldn't get what they wanted.

 

Bonafide in what way?  I mean, we're talking about him getting possibly cut here.  IMO, you can't be bonafide but be on the fringe of an NFL team.  

 

Look at it another way:  Can you see the possibility of any of the WRs that are in camp right now making the team and equalling Doctson's performance last year (44 catches, 532 yards)?  Is it possible that McLaurin can match that this year?  Quinn?  Maybe even Cam Sims?

 

You wouldn't say any of those guys could match Julio Jones' numbers.  That's obviously on the opposite end of the spectrum.  But it's not a stretch of the imagination to see any one of the current guys step up and equal his numbers from last year.  That group includes mid rounders, late rounders, UDFA's.  And if the possibility exists that a mid rounder, late rounder, a UDFA can match what our first rounder can...well, that first rounder is a bust.  

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Bonafide in what way?  I mean, we're talking about him getting possibly cut here.  IMO, you can't be bonafide but be on the fringe of an NFL team.  

 

Look at it another way:  Can you see the possibility of any of the WRs that are in camp right now making the team and equalling Doctson's performance last year (44 catches, 532 yards)?  Is it possible that McLaurin can match that this year?  Quinn?  Maybe even Cam Sims?

 

You wouldn't say any of those guys could match Julio Jones' numbers.  That's obviously on the opposite end of the spectrum.  But it's not a stretch of the imagination to see any one of the current guys step up and equal his numbers from last year.  That group includes mid rounders, late rounders, UDFA's.  And if the possibility exists that a mid rounder, late rounder, a UDFA can match what our first rounder can...well, that first rounder is a bust.  

 

Bonafide in that the dude will get a job in the NFL and decent playing time. A bust to me is the dude is out of the NFL or on the verge of it.   Doctson to me is OK.  He's not great but he isn't a joke either.   He's had 500 yards 2 seasons in a row.  Those are the numbers give or take of the average #3 receiver hence I keep referencing that he's played like a #3.  A bust would be Devin Thomas who has never came close to sniffing 500 yards and busted out of the NFL.   

 

Doctson's catch % needs to improve but at least it's trending up.  Cooley who was an early critic of the dude talked about him improving last season in spite of shoddy Qb play and developed into a good run blocker.  2 different beat reporters said when they ask the FO about Doctson one thing they commonly hear is they think he will reach his peak elsewhere and not here because Jay's offense runs inside out as opposed to outside in and they've not had QB's who like to throw those 50-50 type contested throws.  His 2 best games came after Alex got hurt.   I am not pimping for Doctson but yeah a bust I don't see.  If he were a third round pick IMO this type of conversation wouldn't be happening.  If the discussion was instead whether he was worth the first rounder then on that count, clearly it looks like nope.  But that's a different kind of debate. 

 

If he doesn't make the roster, he's IMO making it elsewhere.  You won't find a bigger fan of Harmon and McLaurin than me considering I wanted both before they became Redskins and talked in detail about them on the draft thread.  Yet, do I think Harmon is better than Doctson, now?  I don't. Not, yet at least.  Would I put Harmon on this roster above Doctson?  Yes.  Why because we happen to be deep at WR IMO and I don't want to chance losing a young guy at WR on the practice squad.  And Doctson is an impending FA.  We don't of late bring back many of our FAs.  So Harmon is more intriguing to me than one more year to rent Doctson.  But if its all about winning now, Doctson is likely the better bet.

Edited August 13, 2019 by Skinsinparadise

[Spaceman Spiff]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Bonafide in that the dude will get a job in the NFL and decent playing time. A bust to me is the dude is out of the NFL or on the verge of it.   Doctson to me is OK.  He's not great but he isn't a joke either.   He's had 500 yards 2 seasons in a row.  Those are the numbers give or take of the average #3 receiver hence I keep referencing that he's played like a #3.  A bust would be Devin Thomas who has never came close to sniffing 500 yards and busted out of the NFL.   

 

Doctson's catch % needs to improve but at least it's trending up.  Cooley who was an early critic of the dude talked about him improving last season in spite of shoddy Qb play and developed into a good run blocker.  2 different beat reporters said when they ask the FO about Doctson one thing they commonly hear is they think he will reach his peak elsewhere and not here because Jay's offense runs inside out as opposed to outside in and they've not had QB's who like to throw those 50-50 type contested throws.  His 2 best games came after Alex got hurt.   I am not pimping for Doctson but yeah a bust I don't see.  If he were a third round pick IMO this type of conversation wouldn't be happening.  If the discussion was instead whether he was worth the first rounder then on that count, clearly it looks like nope.  But that's a different kind of debate. 

 

If he doesn't make the roster, he's IMO making it elsewhere.  You won't find a bigger fan of Harmon and McLaurin than me considering I wanted both before they became Redskins and talked in detail about them on the draft thread.  Yet, do I think Harmon is better than Doctson, now?  I don't. Not, yet at least.  Would I put Harmon on this roster above Doctson?  Yes.  Why because we happen to be deep at WR IMO and I don't want to chance losing a young guy at WR on the practice squad.  And Doctson is an impending FA.  We don't of late bring back many of our FAs.  So Harmon is more intriguing to me than one more year to rent Doctson.  But if its all about winning now, Doctson is likely the better bet.

 

I understand where you're coming from.  And you're right, if he was a third round pick, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

But he wasn't.  So we are.   

 

I guess it ultimately boils down to semantics when discussing this stuff.  I say he's a bust, you say he isn't.  And that's fine.  Maybe the term bust should be used for a guy like Ryan Leaf, someone that EVERYONE from a die hard football fan to a casual fan can point a finger at and be like...yeah, bust.  No one's going to remember who the Redskins took in the first round of the '16 draft outside of Redskins fans...and towards the middle part of the round, too, when there's less of a chance to live up to potential.

 

But I think we can both agree that his time here has been a disappointment.  I think most Skins fans would agree with that statement.  

 

 

[method man]

11 hours ago, drowland said:

 

It was always a possibility once they didn't exercise his 5th year.  If Doctson's not in their future plans (which he doesnt' appear to be), and they have young guys they like, I don't see the point in keeping him around and taking a roster spot from someone they think might have a future.  I think they'll try to trade him between now and final cuts.  Maybe they can trade him to the 49ers for OG Josh Garnett who's been a disappointment and keep churning the LG spot.  

 

This is the best and most realistic trade option for Doctson. We should trade him for someone who has busted on another team due to scheme fit or injury

[Skinsinparadise]

43 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

 

But I think we can both agree that his time here has been a disappointment.  I think most Skins fans would agree with that statement.  

 

 

 

Agree.  If we are talking disappointment from the context of being a first rounder.  It's a real tough position to get right in the draft for whatever reason where at times it almost seems like its better to take a receiver in the 2nd-4th round than the first.  I can't think of another position like that in the draft.  

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree.  If we are talking disappointment from the context of being a first rounder.  It's a real tough position to get right in the draft for whatever reason where at times it almost seems like its better to take a receiver in the 2nd-4th round than the first.  I can't think of another position like that in the draft.  

 

Yep, it's tricky and the Skins have not done well with it for years and years.  But that was kind of my point when I said he's a bust...disappointment in the context of being a first rounder.  

 

Doctson can flash, for sure.  I wouldn't be surprised if he goes somewhere else and excels, benefitting from a change of scenery and a fresh start.  

[Jericho]

11 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Trade him over cutting him is definitely option A, but cutting him might be the only option. The Skins have tipped their hand a bit by not picking up his option for next year so the writing is more than on the wall about what they think of him. If there are other WR's having great camps how can you keep Doc over them and then watch another team go and sign a Robert Davis or Cam Sims, Kidzy? Gruden is now on record as saying the talent they have at WR is gonna make it tough to decide who to cut, another sign that Doc could be the odd man out? To me it seems as though Doc is less hungry than the others and may even welcome a change of scenery. 

 

The Skins didn't really tip their hand on Doctson. Doctson simply wasn't worth the $10.2 million his option was. He's still a useful player, albeit at a lower salary. If you want to see a team do it right, Jacksonville declined its fifth year option on Dante Fowler last year and still managed to trade him in season for a third-round pick and a 2020 fifth-round pick. 

 

I still think most people on this board overrate the team's young receivers. Not only have they basically accomplished zero in the NFL, but outside of McLaurin, they're all very low round picks or undrafted players. And all of sudden all of them are indispensable? They're all studs in the making? They'd all being immediately scooped up by someone? It's a weird dichotomy that the team is often consider to have one of the worst, if not the worst, WR core in the league. But dang if they're all too good to cut.

 

I don't mind if the team wants to keep their young WRs. Though I'd point out that Doctson is not too old to take a step forward (remember he's had just 3 years so far, one of which he was injured virtually the whole season). But Doctson is clearly worth an NFL roster spot somewhere. So if you don't keep him, you trade him. Really, the sooner the better if that is the plan. You'd probably get the best value that way.

[justice98]

8 hours ago, Jericho said:

I still think most people on this board overrate the team's young receivers. Not only have they basically accomplished zero in the NFL, but outside of McLaurin, they're all very low round picks or undrafted players. And all of sudden all of them are indispensable? They're all studs in the making? They'd all being immediately scooped up by someone? It's a weird dichotomy that the team is often consider to have one of the worst, if not the worst, WR core in the league. But dang if they're all too good to cut.

 

I don't mind if the team wants to keep their young WRs. Though I'd point out that Doctson is not too old to take a step forward (remember he's had just 3 years so far, one of which he was injured virtually the whole season). But Doctson is clearly worth an NFL roster spot somewhere. So if you don't keep him, you trade him. Really, the sooner the better if that is the plan. You'd probably get the best value that way.

 

FWIW, cutting or trading Doctson would leave them with Richardson and the next closest guy in terms of games played is Trey Quinn with 3.   Assuming Brian Quick doesnt make the team.

Edited August 14, 2019 by justice98

[RandyHolt]

If we have the worst WR corpse WITH Doctson, I am unafraid of being the worst without him.

 

While I don't know which team currently has the worst WR group, I can only assume we are in the bottom grouping.

 

With or without him Jay is going to spread the ball around, and Doctson will only be getting 5 targets a game. Production hardly irreplaceable with a kid or vet off the street.  I am convinced part of Jay's overall success in scheming guys open is spreading the targets.

Edited August 14, 2019 by RandyHolt

[JSSkinz]

It's disappointing that Trey Quinn injures himself standing around in pregame and now P Rich is injured again and he hasn't even done anything yet.

 

I've always stood up for P Rich but he needs to get it together or let's just cut him, what's the point if the guy can't stay healthy for 10 minutes.

 

We have plenty of young WR's we can take into the season.

[kingdaddy]

11 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

The Skins didn't really tip their hand on Doctson. Doctson simply wasn't worth the $10.2 million his option was. He's still a useful player, albeit at a lower salary. If you want to see a team do it right, Jacksonville declined its fifth year option on Dante Fowler last year and still managed to trade him in season for a third-round pick and a 2020 fifth-round pick. 

 

I still think most people on this board overrate the team's young receivers. Not only have they basically accomplished zero in the NFL, but outside of McLaurin, they're all very low round picks or undrafted players. And all of sudden all of them are indispensable? They're all studs in the making? They'd all being immediately scooped up by someone? It's a weird dichotomy that the team is often consider to have one of the worst, if not the worst, WR core in the league. But dang if they're all too good to cut.

 

I don't mind if the team wants to keep their young WRs. Though I'd point out that Doctson is not too old to take a step forward (remember he's had just 3 years so far, one of which he was injured virtually the whole season). But Doctson is clearly worth an NFL roster spot somewhere. So if you don't keep him, you trade him. Really, the sooner the better if that is the plan. You'd probably get the best value that way.

All good points. Add in the instability at QB last season and you could argue that Doc hasn't had much to work with. That being said, the coaches have seen him for 4 years over 3 years now and they know what he is. If they are seeing him as just another guy in their mix of young WR's then he may be the odd man out. Doc hasn't shown that he is a guy who demands the ball and puts fear into defenses. As for having the worst WR corp in the league that's hard to say. We definitely have the most unknown WR group to the outsider. I hope Doc steps up and leads this team in receiving as Jay is on record as saying they've got to target him more. I just wonder if he's gonna be here.

[Boss_Hogg]

So I hear that "Maurice Harris" guy is doing pretty good in New England. Why can't we get a WR like that 

 

https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/08/11/keenan-allen-on-patriots-maurice-harris-he-always-gets-it/

[ksun247]

If P.Rich is hurt again, I'm of the mindset to trade him and Doctson. Roll with the young guys. It's not like this team will do something big this year. I wish they would, but it's not likely. Keep these guys:

 

T-Mac

Quinn

Cam

Davis

Kidsy

Harmon

Sims (practice squad)

Quick is your on-call vet WR but easily replaceable if another young WR shines in pre-season.

Edited August 14, 2019 by ksun247

[Voice_of_Reason]

With all things being equal injury-wise, you have:

Richardson Starting WR

McLaurin Starting WR

Quinn Starting Slot

Cam Simms - First backup in

Davis  Backup

Harmon Backup

 

That's 6.  If Richardson is hurt again, you might have to carry 7.

 

Quick will be quickly dispatched.  

 

The real question is do they keep Chesson for special teams duty?  They wanted to use McLaurin on ST, but if he's your starting WR, then you probably don't want to do that.  Quinn can be a returner.  I think Cam Simms can play ST.  

 

On gameday, you probably have either 4 or 5 WRs active.  Your 5th WR has to play ST.  You COULD get away with 6 WRs active if you have 2 WRs play ST. (Which means one less safety or LB would be active, most likely.  

 

The question is Doctson.  Can they get anything from him, or does he go down as a completely bust and just released.  I do't think he makes the 53 regardless.  

 

Qunn's thumb has to heal up, and he has to stay healthy.  

 

There might be a WR cut or two which gets picked up by somebody.  There's a lot of young, unproven talent.  

 

[PartyPosse]

You got a better chance of getting something if you let him play out the year and he plays halfway decent. Some team will sign him and we end up with maybe a 4th or 5th comp. Whats the worst thing about keeping him here?

 

Hell Crowder had like 350 yards, has major injury concerns and were still probably gonna end up with a 4th for him.

Edited August 14, 2019 by PartyPosse

[RawRebel]

Dotson only receiver with game day experience besides Quinn, Richardson and Quick. There no way he doesn't make the team. Quick is as good as gone.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Boss_Hogg said:

So I hear that "Maurice Harris" guy is doing pretty good in New England. Why can't we get a WR like that 

 

https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/08/11/keenan-allen-on-patriots-maurice-harris-he-always-gets-it/

We don't know how to adapt to players, and we don't know what players are useful.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

12 minutes ago, RawRebel said:

Dotson only receiver with game day experience besides Quinn, Richardson and Quick. There no way he doesn't make the team. Quick is as good as gone.

I disagree.  Though it might depend on Richardson's health.  If Richardson is healthy, then Richardson, McLaurin, Quinn and Cam Simms are locks.  That's 4.  If you're not going to start Doctson, there's no reason to have him around, you might as well keep Davis, Harmon and possibly Chesson for ST.  

 

If Richardson is hurt, then maybe you keep Doctson because he's played and you keep an extra WR until Richardson is healthy.  

 

Thursday is going to be very telling.  If they put the starters out there and it's McLaurin and somebody other than Doctson, that's a clear indication he's pretty much out the door.

 

[RawRebel]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I disagree.  Though it might depend on Richardson's health.  If Richardson is healthy, then Richardson, McLaurin, Quinn and Cam Simms are locks.  That's 4.  If you're not going to start Doctson, there's no reason to have him around, you might as well keep Davis, Harmon and possibly Chesson for ST.  

 

If Richardson is hurt, then maybe you keep Doctson because he's played and you keep an extra WR until Richardson is healthy.  

 

Thursday is going to be very telling.  If they put the starters out there and it's McLaurin and somebody other than Doctson, that's a clear indication he's pretty much out the door.

 

Everything I've read is saying Simms isn't a polished route runner. I think if it comes down to him and Dotson, Simms wouldn't make team. I would love for Simms to make team but I'm also rooting for Dotson to take the next step to becoming a star.

Edited August 14, 2019 by RawRebel

[Malapropismic Depository]

I was pleasantly surprised how good Kidsy looked out there, against Cleveland's opening defense.

Starting to wonder if he has a realistic shot at the roster

[kingdaddy]

On 8/13/2019 at 8:19 PM, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I understand where you're coming from.  And you're right, if he was a third round pick, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

But he wasn't.  So we are.   

 

I guess it ultimately boils down to semantics when discussing this stuff.  I say he's a bust, you say he isn't.  And that's fine.  Maybe the term bust should be used for a guy like Ryan Leaf, someone that EVERYONE from a die hard football fan to a casual fan can point a finger at and be like...yeah, bust.  No one's going to remember who the Redskins took in the first round of the '16 draft outside of Redskins fans...and towards the middle part of the round, too, when there's less of a chance to live up to potential.

 

But I think we can both agree that his time here has been a disappointment.  I think most Skins fans would agree with that statement.  

 

 

Why do I get the impression that Doc just doesn't have the heart or burning desire to tear it up in the NFL? I just don't see the fire inside....

[Burgold]

I posted the idea of basically getting a group of receivers to grow up with Haskins in the Harmon thread and sleeping on it the idea really tickles me. If this is to be a bad year (don't like the term tank year), why not groom potential on the field. Why not have Richardson be the one gray beard, but then go with McLauren Trey, Simms, Davis, and Harmon?

 

It might be ugly on the field, but I think it's going to be ugly anyway. We have no line and in all probability a first year QB (that's true whether it's Case or Haskins) behind the wheel. If, somehow, you don't think it's going to be a bad year... it's because we're going to be a running team that plays great defense. That doesn't take away from the idea of pretty much an all rookie or 1st year receiving corp. Heck, you could even drop Richardson. He's not a gray beard in the way Garcon or Ellard was. He has never been the consistent, trusted safety net for a QB, but an oft injured spark guy.

 

I realize you're asking for a lot of growing pains, a lot of mistakes, and a lot of players who may not be able to turn their potential into production, but on the other hand, our vet receivers haven't ever really managed to turn their potential into production. In the very worst situation what could happen? Would we win five games instead of seven or six instead of eight? Hell, what if we won three games instead of eight, but got a group ready to explode in 2020?

[SkinsGuy]

14 hours ago, RawRebel said:

Everything I've read is saying Simms isn't a polished route runner. I think if it comes down to him and Dotson, Simms wouldn't make team. I would love for Simms to make team but I'm also rooting for Dotson to take the next step to becoming a star.

 

Doctson isn't going anywhere.

 

Not this year, anyway.

 

They will keep him until the rookies they got this year get more experience.

 

After that, it's all up to Josh's play.

Edited August 15, 2019 by SkinsGuy