Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[JaxJoe]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

I think it was a combination of personnel and play calling

You touched on something I hadn’t thought of and that is audibles. Maybe Alex is better at reading the defense to exploit  the situation for a good running play?  There’s got to be something as to why Alex Smith has had good running production follow him his whole career. Granted, he’s had really good backs, too. And now he has Guice. 

 

I can’t wait to see this combination develop. 

[Cooooley47]

Just now, JaxJoe said:

You touched on something I hadn’t thought of and that is audibles. Maybe Alex is better at reading the defense to exploit  the situation for a good running play?  There’s got to be something as to why Alex Smith has had good running production follow him his whole career. Granted, he’s had really good backs, too. And now he has Guice. 

 

I can’t wait to see this combination develop. 

 

If Guice outperforms Kareem Hunt this season, I'd say there is definitely something to that. Will be interesting to keep an eye on.

[Veryoldschool]

4 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

If you can't see that Guice is on a different level than our previous backs, then I'm not sure what to tell you.  I expect our running game to improve leaps and bounds.  If it doesn't, I will personally drive up to Minny and buy you a cup of coffee.

 

Leaps and bounds?  How do you keep believing this stuff?  How do you know Guice is on a whole different level than the guys you were excited about earlier when he hasn't played a snap yet?

 

i hope I am pleasantly surprised but if the core  of the OL is as weak as before I'm not expecting the character of the team to change, they are a finesse team that can't pick up a 3rd and short or breach the goal line on the ground.

[Skinsinparadise]

With Paul Richardson and Derrius Guice, Alex has more weapons than Kirk and that should help.  I am not down on the run blocking of the O line.  But I wonder about the imagination/predictability of the running game -- Callahan?  And the blocking ability of the TEs on the edges. 

 

The passing weapons though are interesting and can emerge but on the surface there is no major threat unless Jordan Reed stays healthy.  I was thinking about this lately.  I think a healthy Jordan Reed = good season.  If he's banged up again = mediocre again.

 

I've had a man crush on Guice since last fall.  And yeah I do think he can run with this O line.   To me this is Portis part 2 and if anything I'd lean to him being better than Portis. 

 

http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2018/04/nfl_draft_2018_is_derrius_guice_a_better_runner_than_saquon.html

In an article by Bucky Brooks on NFL.com, Brooks quotes an NFC personnel director as saying that LSU running back Derrius Guice, not Barkley, is the best player in the draft at running the football. 

Per Brooks:

"I think he's the best runner in the draft. He's not the best overall player at the position, but as a runner, it's hard to find a better one in this class. From his balance, body control, explosiveness and strength, he can do it all with the ball in his hands. ... He finishes his runs violently and repeatedly runs through contract. That's exactly what you want your top running backs to do." -- NFC personnel director''

 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/4/17/17247560/derrius-guice-saquon-barkley-2018-nfl-draft

Why Derrius Guice might be the safest running back to pick in the 2018 NFL Draft

[SWFLSkins]

8 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Leaps and bounds?  How do you keep believing this stuff?  How do you know Guice is on a whole different level than the guys you were excited about earlier when he hasn't played a snap yet?

 

i hope I am pleasantly surprised but if the core  of the OL is as weak as before I'm not expecting the character of the team to change, they are a finesse team that can't pick up a 3rd and short or breach the goal line on the ground.

 

I no longer think the RB will have trouble finding a hole, and ramming his will for three yards. 

 He finishes his runs violently and repeatedly runs through contract. That's exactly what you want your top running backs to do." -- NFC personnel director''

[skinny21]

8 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Leaps and bounds?  How do you keep believing this stuff?  How do you know Guice is on a whole different level than the guys you were excited about earlier when he hasn't played a snap yet?

 

i hope I am pleasantly surprised but if the core  of the OL is as weak as before I'm not expecting the character of the team to change, they are a finesse team that can't pick up a 3rd and short or breach the goal line on the ground.

I totally understand your concerns.  

 

I’ll just say that even sniffing the league average (maybe including converting on short yardage runs) would be an improvement by ‘leaps and bounds’.  

[mistertim]

On 5/17/2018 at 1:07 AM, Veryoldschool said:

 

Leaps and bounds?  How do you keep believing this stuff?  How do you know Guice is on a whole different level than the guys you were excited about earlier when he hasn't played a snap yet?

 

i hope I am pleasantly surprised but if the core  of the OL is as weak as before I'm not expecting the character of the team to change, they are a finesse team that can't pick up a 3rd and short or breach the goal line on the ground.

 

Like who? I don't recall being especially excited about Rob Kelley before he showed himself to be a decent grinder. I thought Perine was an intriguing pick and had potential but his college tape showed him running through some H U G E holes. Almo I also didn't know much about before he started playing. If you've watched Guice's film and really payed attention to some of the more subtle things he can do, you know he is on a very different level than other backs on our team or even recent ones. I loved Almo but I always worried that without the read option and threat of RG3 running he might not be that great.

[Est.1974]

Guice should be a stud with adequate management. Oh and Smith is a upgrade at QB. Win Win.

[Veryoldschool]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Like who? I don't recall being especially excited about Rob Kelley before he showed himself to be a decent grinder. I thought Perine was an intriguing pick and had potential but his college tape showed him running through some H U G E holes. Almo I also didn't know much about before he started playing. If you've watched Guice's film and really payed attention to some of the more subtle things he can do, you know he is on a very different level than other backs on our team or even recent ones. I loved Almo but I always worried that without the read option and threat of RG3 running he might not be that great.

 

You skipped over Jones.  I hope you guys that excited by the pick are right and he improves the running game.  It looks to me the line is weak in the middle and that is the core problem but I haven’t studied the game films like the coaches.  Maybe they are seeing holes that haven’t been exploited and a push I haven’t noticed merely watching the games.  It could also be the Skins believe in finesse football, the guy who talked about Big Guy football was fired.  Let’s just hope it works out.

[MisterPinstripe]

Guice saw an 8 man box 32% of the time and still ran really well. Barkley 8%. I think that will help out our run game and thus Smith a lot.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

On 5/17/2018 at 1:07 AM, Veryoldschool said:

 

Leaps and bounds?  How do you keep believing this stuff?  How do you know Guice is on a whole different level than the guys you were excited about earlier when he hasn't played a snap yet?

 

i hope I am pleasantly surprised but if the core  of the OL is as weak as before I'm not expecting the character of the team to change, they are a finesse team that can't pick up a 3rd and short or breach the goal line on the ground.

 

I expect Guice to be a huge upgrade over the backs they have had in the past, I don't even think that's a question.  As for the thread title I am firmly behind Alex Smith and was happy a QB at this level was even available.  But I have also managed expectations.  This team has shown no signs of every being a top team, now they have hitched their wagon to a 33 year old QB who 2 different contending teams decided would never be good enough to take them to the top so they opted for higher ceiling options.  This can not be understated, I highly doubt they ever get close to a Super Bowl with Alex Smith, and at 33 that window is small.  

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I expect Guice to be a huge upgrade over the backs they have had in the past, I don't even think that's a question.  As for the thread title I am firmly behind Alex Smith and was happy a QB at this level was even available.  But I have also managed expectations.  This team has shown no signs of every being a top team, now they have hitched their wagon to a 33 year old QB who 2 different contending teams decided would never be good enough to take them to the top so they opted for higher ceiling options.  This can not be understated, I highly doubt they ever get close to a Super Bowl with Alex Smith, and at 33 that window is small.  

 

Good summary of my position, too.  I like Alex Smith a lot.  Good QB and really good dude, too.  Don't think he's great, though.  He's actually 34 now not 33.   People cite Drew Brees and Tom Brady like who can't play to an elite level now until their late 30s-early 40.  But they are really the exception not the norm.  A lot of really good QBs start losing it at 34 let alone lets say in the 36-37 range.  We had two examples here where we've traded for QBs at a similar age with Brunell and McNabb.  Both weren't the guys they were when they were young. And they didn't last long. 

 

So sometimes I get this thrown at me in debate -- you really dig Alex Smith and like him but hate the trade?  That makes no sense.   To me it makes perfect sense.  I just think you have to play the odds and assume that your 34 QB has at best a 2-3 year window.  Yeah its possible that he's like Brees-Brady but I am not banking on it.  Clearly, the Chiefs weren't banking on it.

 

So it puts the pressure on for them to win now and every season that urgency is magnified when you got a QB at that age.  I don't think Alex has a Superbowl roster around him.  If he was 30 -- that's not a big deal, we got time to build up to that.  But at 34 you are right at the brink of a period where some Qbs start to lose their fastball.   My hunch is Alex will be good this year maybe next too -- but 36 isn't usually a prime period for most QBs

 

 

[Sandy Monk]

A healthy offensive line can do wonders. If dudes stay healthy and the LG spot is tolerable, the offense could be kicking some ass for a long while. 

[Veryoldschool]

2 hours ago, Sandy Monk said:

A healthy offensive line can do wonders. If dudes stay healthy and the LG spot is tolerable, the offense could be kicking some ass for a long while. 

 

Let me take a toke on that I want to feel that way also..

[Veryoldschool]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Good summary of my position, too.  I like Alex Smith a lot.  Good QB and really good dude, too.  Don't think he's great, though.  He's actually 34 now not 33.   People cite Drew Brees and Tom Brady like who can't play to an elite level now until their late 30s-early 40.  But they are really the exception not the norm.  A lot of really good QBs start losing it at 34 let alone lets say in the 36-37 range.  We had two examples here where we've traded for QBs at a similar age with Brunell and McNabb.  Both weren't the guys they were when they were young. And they didn't last long. 

 

So sometimes I get this thrown at me in debate -- you really dig Alex Smith and like him but hate the trade?  That makes no sense.   To me it makes perfect sense.  I just think you have to play the odds and assume that your 34 QB has at best a 2-3 year window.  Yeah its possible that he's like Brees-Brady but I am not banking on it.  Clearly, the Chiefs weren't banking on it.

 

So it puts the pressure on for them to win now and every season that urgency is magnified when you got a QB at that age.  I don't think Alex has a Superbowl roster around him.  If he was 30 -- that's not a big deal, we got time to build up to that.  But at 34 you are right at the brink of a period where some Qbs start to lose their fastball.   My hunch is Alex will be good this year maybe next too -- but 36 isn't usually a prime period for most QBs

 

 

 

I think the Alex acquisition was a good fall back move and will allow the Gruden era to continue and hopefully progress.  I want the stability and incremental improvements and I want Smith to enjoy the full support of the Redskin fan base while he is here. I am hoping for a .500 season followed by something better in 2019.  I have no idea whether Smith will be still effective 4 or 5 years from now and don't care.

[dyst]

I have no faith in Richardson till I see him on this team performing. Speed means nothing if a guy can’t catch. 

 

Pryor had speed, tons of guys have speed, ask the Raiders, for a while thats all they drafted at WR. Can’t he get open with that speed? Can he lull a corner and then burst right at the end to grab the ball. Is he a fluid runner in space to get by defenders? 

 

Our best receiver right now is Crowder, then Docton until Richardson shows us something.

[Shar Pourdanesh]

A little disappointed in the move at the time, and still feel they should have looked to the draft to replace Cousins, but agree with the sentiment of the OP. 

 

At a minimum, with Smith and Guice joining the roster it should make for an interesting season (at least the first few games!). I'm skeptical that a qb entering his mid-30s who has been league average throughout his career  is the answer, but maybe he thrives here with Gruden. Stranger things have happened. Either way in excited to see the new personnel in week 1 and hope I'm wrong about Smith. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

I think the Alex acquisition was a good fall back move and will allow the Gruden era to continue and hopefully progress.  I want the stability and incremental improvements and I want Smith to enjoy the full support of the Redskin fan base while he is here. I am hoping for a .500 season followed by something better in 2019.  I have no idea whether Smith will be still effective 4 or 5 years from now and don't care.

 

I always thought Kirk was classy as heck and represented the organization well publicly.  I've met him a couple of times and I was very impressed with Kirk the person.  Big fan of the QB, too.  Alex Smith is also in the Kirk vein -- reputation wise he's a super cool dude, great person, classy.  I haven't met him -- maybe someday. 

 

I like Alex as a QB, too.  I am with you about maintaining the Gruden era and if starting anew with a younger player would jeopardize that -- then I'd be into the veteran route.  But as much as i like Alex, I don't think he's at the level where he can carry this team to the promise land with this roster.    So I think the pressure is on to make a run when you got a 34 year old QB.  I think at least 50-50 your window isn't going to be long.  And I am a bit burnt out from the 8-8 drill.  Though granted its better than stinking.  With Kirk I had more patience with it because you got likely at least a 5 year window so there was more time to build the roster.   

[LadySkinsFan]

At least with Alex he doesn't throw interceptions at the worst possible time. They replayed the Vikings game recently and Kirk threw a pick at the end of the second quarter. I won't be sorry to not see that this season.

 

Besides, Kirk didn't want to be here. Yeah, he was happy to take all those millions under the tags, and wait to hit free agency. 

[bobandweave]

On 5/17/2018 at 6:20 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

With Paul Richardson and Derrius Guice, Alex has more weapons than Kirk and that should help. 

 

I will give you that for last season but not for 15 or 16. PRich doesn’t come close to a healthy Reed, Garçon and Jackson.

 

 

On 5/17/2018 at 6:20 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

I am not down on the run blocking of the O line.  But I wonder about the imagination/predictability of the running game -- Callahan?  And the blocking ability of the TEs on the edges. 

 

The problem with the running game is the TE position imo. When Reed or Davis is in they don’t run block, Sprinkle is a run blocker. It’s easy to spot when they are gonna run for the defense. TE is a huge liability 

 

On 5/17/2018 at 6:20 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The passing weapons though are interesting and can emerge but on the surface there is no major threat unless Jordan Reed stays healthy.  I was thinking about this lately.  I think a healthy Jordan Reed = good season.  If he's banged up again = mediocre again.

 

Not gonna say that. 8-8 is not mediocre to me and they’ve done that without Reed. 

 

On 5/17/2018 at 6:20 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've had a man crush on Guice since last fall.  And yeah I do think he can run with this O line.   To me this is Portis part 2 and if anything I'd lean to him being better than Portis. 

 

Sure hope your right about that

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, bobandweave said:

 

I will give you that for last season but not for 15 or 16. PRich doesn’t come close to a healthy Reed, Garçon and Jackson.

 

 

I agree ten fold with this point.  But I was happy with the passing game in 2015/2016 with those weapons.  2017 they were gone and ditto Reed for most of the season -- that's tough for any QB. 

 

2 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

The problem with the running game is the TE position imo. When Reed or Davis is in they don’t run block, Sprinkle is a run blocker. It’s easy to spot when they are gonna run for the defense. TE is a huge liability 

 

I think its part of the problem.  Not the whole problem.  Cooley in his film study liked to say that yeah TEs are a problem but so are the RBs.  I've started rewatching games with coaches tape and I see what he means.  I've even posted some clips of it.

 

3 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

Not gonna say that. 8-8 is not mediocre to me and they’ve done that without Reed. 

 

Not sure what you mean by this but if you mean 8-8 is a good season -- then yeah I think they can pull that off again.  I don't hate 8-8 seasons but I'd hope for better than just being relevant but not making the playoffs.  I agree about Reed -- he's the game changer one way or another.  If he's healthy all season long, I can see this team going 10-6 or so.  But its hard for me to bank on that.

 

6 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

Sure hope your right about that

 

  

Will see.  My man crush on Guice goes back to last fall.  I think he will be a game changer.

[bobandweave]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I always thought Kirk was classy as heck and represented the organization well publicly.

 

So did I until it became clear he was lying the past two seasons. Knowing that he waited for free agency since then and it was his plan all along (his words not mine) then I realized I had been worked and we all had been worked. That removed my belief in anything he said the past two seasons and showed we were all suckers to buy what he was selling

 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Alex Smith is also in the Kirk vein -- reputation wise he's a super cool dude, great person, classy.  I haven't met him -- maybe someday. 

 

Alex is nothing like the Kirk vein to me. When Kirk left who wished him well? Wht former teammates said they would miss him like the 49ers did when Alex left there or the Chiefs did when he left there? For that matter listen to what Pat Mahomes had to say about how Alex helped him and groomed him versus the crap coming out of Pittsburgh’s QBs mouths since the draft. 

 

Alex is on a level so much higher then most QBs in the league today. Maybe one day Kirk will show leadership like Alex always did but I seriously doubt it

 

[bobandweave]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

So it puts the pressure on for them to win now and every season that urgency is magnified when you got a QB at that age.

 

I don’t get this. Not that I don’t understand what your saying rather why you think that for this team that there isn’t always pressure to win now no matter what the QB age is. Truth is this is not a team like the Steelers who rarely change coaches or the Browns or Bengals who no matter if they lose or not they keep the coaches. This team is owned by a guy who isn’t afraid to make changes. The only way to keep things the same are to win. Or changes are coming and people are going to be looking for jobs. The QB age doesn’t change or alter that 

 

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I don't think Alex has a Superbowl roster around him.  If he was 30 -- that's not a big deal, we got time to build up to that.  But at 34 you are right at the brink of a period where some Qbs start to lose their fastball.   My hunch is Alex will be good this year maybe next too -- but 36 isn't usually a prime period for most QBs

 

Is it something about Alex Smiths game that makes you feel that way or is it just his age? Alex is younger then 

 

Tom Brady

Aaron Rodgers

Drew Brees

Eli Manning

Phillip Rivers

Ben R. 

 

Today, and he is a year older then Matt Ryan who just signed a LTD. And the same age as Joe Flacco.

 

The ages of starting QBs with the less hits they are taking and better training and healthly living are going longer then ever before. It user to be that at 33 a guy was almost over the hill but not anymore. Times have changed

[Darrell Green Fan]

9 hours ago, bobandweave said:

 

So did I until it became clear he was lying the past two seasons. Knowing that he waited for free agency since then and it was his plan all along (his words not mine) then I realized I had been worked and we all had been worked. That removed my belief in anything he said the past two seasons and showed we were all suckers to buy what he was selling

 

 

 

Alex is nothing like the Kirk vein to me. When Kirk left who wished him well? Wht former teammates said they would miss him like the 49ers did when Alex left there or the Chiefs did when he left there? For that matter listen to what Pat Mahomes had to say about how Alex helped him and groomed him versus the crap coming out of Pittsburgh’s QBs mouths since the draft. 

 

Alex is on a level so much higher then most QBs in the league today. Maybe one day Kirk will show leadership like Alex always did but I seriously doubt it

 

 

I don't know how Kirk was supposed to handle this thing any differently.  He earned his free agency, prior to that he pretty much said  "I'd be happy to stay in Washington if we can work out a deal".  Even if he felt this way, which I do not believe, are you saying he would have been better off saying publically "yeah I'm on the first bus out of this dump but not before milking the owner for every nickle  I am entitled to".  Would that have made you feel better?