Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[Taylor 36]

Just now, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

And although we did go on to win that night, I believe it was also a 23-21 game.

If so, that is really crazy!

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

13 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

If you knew football you would know that very rarely does a back not have more than one responsibility, especially when not getting the hand off.  In most cases like that, if there is no one to pick up and block, or even after making a block, the back is supposed to slide out and become a check down target.  He may have missed his blocking assignment, which happens to every team at times, and went out.

 

Gruden talking down Alex's reads has nothing to do with proving that he put Alex in a position to get injured.  Anyone who knows football and watches the Redskins has been talking down Alex's reads and his play overall.  Including Alex.  So, I guess Alex got himself injured by your logic?

Watch the play..Perine never hesitated or checked. He should have slide out like I said after checking...A Coach that would call a SLOW developing play (run through the line and into the flat) on a obvious (and telegraphed) Blitz has no business coaching...

 

Just like the "Get behind Alex" threads...you are consistent at least..own it

[Taylor 36]

Just now, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Watch the play..Perine never hesitated or checked. He should have slide out like I said after checking...A Coach that would call a SLOW developing play (run through the line and into the flat) on a obvious (and telegraphed) Blitz has no business coaching...

 

Just like the "Get behind Alex" threads...you are consistent at least..own it

And you are consistent with your struggling reading comprehension.  As I said multiple times, the back MAY have just not done what he was supposed to which would account for him sliding out and not staying in to block.  It happens.  Guys lose assignments in games.  It sucks, but it happens.  The truth is that NO ONE outside of Gruden and the guys in the huddle know exactly what assignments were or were not blown.  You have no idea, and you have no facts to back up your conspiracy theory.  Your obsession with over-reaching here and trying to blame Gruden for this is just ridiculous.  Let it go!!!

[RandyHolt]

Was Chase supposed to slide over? We had 3OL on 1 guy immediately after the snap.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

 

Agreed. Got to think we're drafting one now to partner with McCoy.

Then we need to start losing ?

[Taylor 36]

1 minute ago, RandyHolt said:

Was Chase supposed to slide over? We had 3OL on 1 guy immediately after the snap.

Great question.  It appears that someone blew a blocking assignment, but we may never know who did.

[Dirt]

54 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

3rd and 9 and the Back went out into the flat as a receiver. NEVER checked on the Blitz!!! Who was that back? a 30#. THAT was a BAD Play Call. Gruden pressed and got Alex hurt. I stand by what I said...Gruden listened to the critics and tried for a big play and too a BIG RISK. Alex didn't have a chance. Gruden OWNS this because of the flack he listened to..

Okay we can stop blaming Gruden, or a running back, or anyone else for that matter.  It was a freakish landing and something you can't predict.  Jay Gruden is not calling plays based on whether or not his QB will fall awkwardly and break his leg.

 

Now, you can argue that, given the field position, we could have drawn up something better that wouldn't have risked a sack taking us out of field goal range.  But you can't put the injury on Gruden or anyone else.  Even the guy that tackled him surely feels terrible and even he knows he couldn't have done anything different to prevent it.  Its not a player safety thing, it's a freakish play, just like Joey T, which is pretty eerie.

[PortisBetts]

Does Smith retire at his age with an injury like this?

[RandyHolt]

Let's blame the turf

 

FML

[Taylor 36]

1 minute ago, PortisBetts said:

Does Smith retire at his age with an injury like this?

Obviously, I'm guessing.  But, I would think so.  It is going to be a long, hard recovery just to get back to walking unassisted, never mind getting back in football shape.  I would be surprised if he came back, and if he did, it probably wouldn't be until 2020, late 2019 at the earliest.

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

2 minutes ago, Dirt said:

Okay we can stop blaming Gruden, or a running back, or anyone else for that matter.  It was a freakish landing and something you can't predict.  Jay Gruden is not calling plays based on whether or not his QB will fall awkwardly and break his leg.

 

Now, you can argue that, given the field position, we could have drawn up something better that wouldn't have risked a sack taking us out of field goal range.  But you can't put the injury on Gruden or anyone else.  Even the guy that tackled him surely feels terrible and even he knows he couldn't have done anything different to prevent it.  Its not a player safety thing, it's a freakish play, just like Joey T, which is pretty eerie.

I agree..I said the PLAY was a BS Play. I assigned to Gruden that responsibility whether the back executed or not. NO..Gruden didn't CAUSE the injury..but maybe you can allow that the call was "ill advised".

 

So arguing isn't going to change minds. I am pissed at Jay for what I saw just like people were pissed at Alex for what they saw.

 

I'm done venting..it's done. I hope McCoy has some gas left in the tank. I DO have confidence he can run this offense and still beat Dallas.

[megared]

7 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

Obviously, I'm guessing.  But, I would think so.  It is going to be a long, hard recovery just to get back to walking unassisted, never mind getting back in football shape.  I would be surprised if he came back, and if he did, it probably wouldn't be until 2020, late 2019 at the earliest.

 

Why would he retire?  So the team could go after a portion of the $27 M signing bonus and/or his guaranteed salary for 2019?  There is absolutely no business reason on his end to not draw this out, and maybe even get the 2020 season guaranteed, for a total of $71 M.  And I don't blame him one bit.  Even worse than him not playing to expectations, was the risk that we'd be paying him to not play.  And that's exactly what we'll be doing, for some time.  

[RemoveSnyder]

3 hours ago, redskinss said:

Is there anybody who might know who is available for us to sign as a backup or maybe a link to available free agents?

I'm not looking for any more jokes I genuinely want to know who we might be able to bring in as a backup

 

Here are a couple open source lists for current free agents:

1. http://nfltraderumors.co/2018-nfl-free-agents-list/

2. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2018/all/quarterback/available/

 

Some time ago I remember finding where the NFL produced an actual document online of all current NFL players including free agents for the league year, but it's not showing up at first glance and I'd have to dig to find that.

 

Out of the group, I cursorily picked out:

TJ Yates 

Kellen Clemens 

Chad Kelly

 

Here are the current rosters for both AFC and NFC, showing practice squad players:

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_NFC_team_rosters

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_AFC_team_rosters

 

Out of the group of practice squad guys I picked out:

Brandon Allen

Connor Cook

 

 

From my perspective the best play would be signing a practice squad player from another team rather than free agency. I'd personally go after Brandon Allen. But Cook has at least started an NFL game before. So, Cook is actually closer to a FA than PS guy. Allen is just a schematic fit, for multiple reasons. 

 

 

One, the FA list is full of warts. For example, I listed a guy, Chad Kelly, he was recently arrested for criminal trespassing, which was the reason for Denver to release him. I mean, it says something when Kelly looks more enticing than a whole bunch of others who don't move the needle.

 

You either have young guys who have never started an NFL game or have bounced around from multiple teams, never solidifying themselves on the 53 as a bedrock #2 QB, or you have really old vets whose best days are behind them and have already gone through their one or two chances at being a starter and have washed out. 

 

Both of those extremes are not encouraging when you realize that washington only has one QB on their roster right now, McCoy. So, somebody needs to be signed and that someone is going to be the #2, whether they are worthy of it or not. 

 

 

Generally speaking, the conservative play would be to get a Vet back up, who has at least played in a handful of NFL games, has started at one time in the past and at least will come in and "know his role."

 

Preferably, at least for me, that whoever has at least started an NFL game. As the #2 they are only one play away from taking snaps. 

 

 

Two, perhaps more importantly for making an argument for practice squad over FA, imo the only reason to use free agency as opposed to practice squad is if you believed there was a free agent out there who was demonstrably better than McCoy. Ideally one would use free agency for getting a starter, but I don't actually see anyone in FA who is clearly any better than McCoy.

 

So that means using FA would be a play for just an "already know, book is written" QB who will never be anything more than a temporary bandaid. 

 

In addition, if they use FA just to get a Vet backup, idk, I'll just toss out TJ Yates' name since he's been a starter in the league and at one time was kind-of a plucky back-up for Houston, I feel like you're not exploring the idea that you could possibly get better than McCoy, as slim a possibility as that is.

 

 

To further that example, Kellen Clemens ain't coming here and out playing McCoy. It would be a conservative move but with no upside. So, it's almost defeatist to sign Clemens. I only plucked his name out since he was once here with washington before, back in 2011. 

 

Can't trade for anyone. Before I realized that the trade deadline was passed I thought of Bridgewater. But that's a no go. 

 

 

Ultimately if it were up to me, I'd go for Allen or Cook. I wanted to draft Allen out of Arkansas. 

 

At least with either, or both of them, they are still young enough that their book hasn't been completely written yet and both have some playing time experience, specifically with Cook having started a game, before losing his place.

 

While with Allen, he's been with McVay and can easily run standard WCO bootleg stuff. His OC / QB coach at Arkansas was the same OC / QB coach that Cousins had briefly when at Michigan State, Dan Enos (now with Alabama as QB / Co-OC). 

[Nerm]

It wouldn't make any sense for Alex to retire if that means he would have to give up any $.  He has to rehab anyway, why would he chose to give up millions of dollars while going through that process, knowing that he will never earn this kind of money for the rest of his life.  I don't know the specifics of his contract, but a lot of players seem to get their salary for the next season guaranteed if they end the season on IR.

[Veryoldschool]

7 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

Obviously, I'm guessing.  But, I would think so.  It is going to be a long, hard recovery just to get back to walking unassisted, never mind getting back in football shape.  I would be surprised if he came back, and if he did, it probably wouldn't be until 2020, late 2019 at the earliest.

 

Are you an orthopedic guy?  I’m not but I know broken legs mend so until we hear otherwise from Smith himself I am going assume he will heal, rehab and play again.   Smith is a very determined man like every other NFL QB, I expect he will want to beat this thing and leave the game on his own terms.

[Taylor 36]

3 minutes ago, megared said:

 

Why would he retire?  So the team could go after a portion of the $27 M signing bonus and/or his guaranteed salary for 2019?  There is absolutely no business reason on his end to not draw this out, and maybe even get the 2020 season guaranteed, for a total of $71 M.  And I don't blame him one bit.  Even worse than him not playing to expectations, was the risk that we'd be paying him to not play.  And that's exactly what we'll be doing, for some time.  

 

2 minutes ago, Nerm said:

It wouldn't make any sense for Alex to retire if that means he would have to give up any $.  He has to rehab anyway, why would he chose to give up millions of dollars while going through that process, knowing that he will never earn this kind of money for the rest of his life.  I don't know the specifics of his contract, but a lot of players seem to get their salary for the next season guaranteed if they end the season on IR.

He and the team could reach an injury settlement.  I'm not going to pretend to know all the ins and outs of contract structures when it comes to injuries, but if the team knows he won't play again and Alex is as good of a guy as people say, then I could see them reaching a settlement very quickly that would be beneficial to both parties.

[Veryoldschool]

4 minutes ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

 

Here are a couple open source lists for current free agents:

1. http://nfltraderumors.co/2018-nfl-free-agents-list/

2. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2018/all/quarterback/available/

 

Out of the group, I cursorily picked out:

TJ Yates 

Kellen Clemens 

Chad Kelly

 

Some time ago I remember finding where the NFL produced an actual document online of all current NFL players including free agents for the league year, but it's not showing up at first glance and I'd have to dig to find that.

 

 

Here are the current rosters for both AFC and NFC, showing practice squad players:

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_NFC_team_rosters

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_AFC_team_rosters

 

Out of the group of practice squad guys I picked out:

Brandon Allen

Connor Cook

 

 

From my perspective the best play would be signing a practice squad player from another team rather than free agency. I'd personally go after Brandon Allen. But Cook has at least started an NFL game before. So, Cook is actually closer to a FA than PS guy. Allen is just a schematic fit, for multiple reasons. 

 

One, the FA list is full of warts. For example, I listed a guy, Chad Kelly, he was recently arrested for criminal trespassing, which was the reason for Denver to release him. I mean, it says something when Kelly looks more enticing than a whole bunch of others who don't move the needle.

 

You either have young guys who have never started an NFL game, or have bounced around from multiple teams never solidifying themselves on the 53 as a bedrock #2 QB, or you have really old vets whose best days are behind them and have already gone through their one or two chances at being a starter and have washed out. 

 

Both of those extremes are not encouraging when you realize that washington only has one QB on their roster right now, McCoy. So, somebody needs to be signed and that someone is going to be the #2, whether they are worthy of it or not. 

 

Generally speaking, the conservative play would be to get a Vet back up, who has at least played in a handful of NFL games, has started at one time on the past and at least will come in and "know his roll."

 

Preferably, at least for me, that whoever has at least started an NFL game. As the #2 they are one play away from taking snaps. 

 

Two, perhaps more importantly for practice squad over FA, imo the only reason to use free agency as opposed to practice squad is if you believed there was a free agent out there who was demonstrably better than McCoy. Ideally one would use free agency for getting a starter, but I don't actually see anyone in FA who is clearly any better than McCoy.

 

In addition, if they use FA just to get a Vet backup, idk, I'll just toss out TJ Yates name since he's been a starter in the league and at one time was kind-of a plucky back-up for Houston, I feel like you're not exploring the idea that you get better than McCoy, as slim a possibility that is. 

 

Example, Kellen Clemens ain't coming here and out playing McCoy. So, it's almost defeatist to sign Clemens. I only plucked his name out since he was once here with washington before, back in 2011. 

 

Can't trade for anyone. Before I realized that the trade deadline was passed I thought of Bridgewater. 

 

Ultimately if it were up to me, I'd go for Allen or Cook. At least with either or both of them, they are still young enough that their book hasn't been completely written yet and both have some playing time experience with Cook having started some games before losing his place. While with Allen, he's been with McVay and can easily run standard WCO bootleg stuff. His coach at Arkansas was the same OC coach that Cousins had when at Michigan State. 

 

Jay could talk to Jon Gruden about Cook.  

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah for those who have young kids, you can relate that you can feel their injuries more than any of your own.  I stayed over night with him before the surgery, talked to the doctor multiple times, say through with him as the recovery time at the hospital -- he was released a day later.  But he went right to a wheel chair.  Took months before he could walk but could get around some in crutches.  Been through his physical therapy.   So yeah sadly I know that injury really well.  It's a long journey to come back from typically.   My son still isn't right but he's getting there and he's 10 years old so at an age where your body heals fast.  

 

Sorry to hear about your son. I had the exact same injury 20 years ago and the surgery to go along with it. It is a long and painful road. But you do recover fully with time. 

[Taylor 36]

3 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Are you an orthopedic guy?  I’m not but I know broken legs mend so until we hear otherwise from Smith himself I am going assume he will heal, rehab and play again.   Smith is a very determined man like every other NFL QB, I expect he will want to beat this thing and leave the game on his own terms.

I am not, but I actually watched the game with a good friend who is, and specializes in sports injuries.  She said immediately after the replay of the sac that it was a broken Fibula, probably Tibula as was, and she wouldn't be surprised if there was torn ligaments as well.  She said, at his age, it was going to be a long, painful recovery that may be career ending, especially for a guy who uses his legs so much as part of his game.  This was all before he had even left the field.  So, far, she has been exactly right with what we've been told.  Add to that what others on this board have said that have had personal experience with such injuries, and it's hard for me to believe he isn't going to seriously consider retirement.

[justice98]

1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

 

Agreed. Got to think we're drafting one now to partner with McCoy.

 

I dont know why people think Alex's career is over.  If it's an  uncomplicated fracture, he'll be good to go by training camp. Bones you can come back from.  

 

Having said that, they do need to draft somebody, but I dont think it's because Smith is gonna retire or otherwise not gonna be healthy enough to play.

[thebluefood]

Watched the replays and damn near puked. Legs aren't supposed to flop around like that. They're not. 

 

I don't know if it's more severe than Joey T.'s leg injury but this was somehow it was harder to watch.

[ncr2h]

1 minute ago, Taylor 36 said:

I am not, but I actually watched the game with a good friend who is, and specializes in sports injuries.  She said immediately after the replay of the sac that it was a broken Fibula, probably Tibula as was, and she wouldn't be surprised if there was torn ligaments as well.  She said, at his age, it was going to be a long, painful recovery that may be career ending, especially for a guy who uses his legs so much as part of his game.  This was all before he had even left the field.  So, far, she has been exactly right with what we've been told.  Add to that what others on this board have said that have had personal experience with such injuries, and it's hard for me to believe he isn't going to seriously consider retirement.

That's all well and good, but what is Smith's incentive to retire? It's going to take two to tango, and he has about 40 million reasons to rehab so that he can at least pass a physical at some point, at which point I would assume we would be on the hook for his bonuses and salary earned to that point.

[Dirt]

16 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

I agree..I said the PLAY was a BS Play. I assigned to Gruden that responsibility whether the back executed or not. NO..Gruden didn't CAUSE the injury..but maybe you can allow that the call was "ill advised".

 

So arguing isn't going to change minds. I am pissed at Jay for what I saw just like people were pissed at Alex for what they saw.

 

I'm done venting..it's done. I hope McCoy has some gas left in the tank. I DO have confidence he can run this offense and still beat Dallas.

Fair enough brother, get the venting out lol, we're all feeling that right now.

 

Jay called plays that got this team to a nice division lead.  We'll see how he calls them with colt.  I predict some more downfield exciting football.  We have to ditch that safe thing we were doing (which was working) and hopefully we get a spark.  Should be entertaining for us fans if nothing else.

[Taylor 36]

3 minutes ago, ncr2h said:

That's all well and good, but what is Smith's incentive to retire? It's going to take two to tango, and he has about 40 million reasons to rehab so that he can at least pass a physical at some point, at which point I would assume we would be on the hook for his bonuses and salary earned to that point.

As i said earlier, if he knows he isn't going to play and is as good of a guy as people say, why wouldn't he reach an injury settlement with the team.  That would also allow him to go in the booth or do something else that he is interested in doing.

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

If for some crazy reason Alex decides to throw us a bone and retire, leaving all that money on the table, I’ll take back all the bad things I said about his play and donate money to build a statue of him outside of the new stadium.