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Veryoldschool

Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

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18 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

 

I would define my C option as .... Not as good as anticipated but he does enough small things to not lose us games and hopefully his quick passing, trust and reads improve with time and reps. Basically, its not all bad.

 

That's fine.  My point is if you are going to sell that we are winning because of him -- don't see how the same person posting that position can also backtrack when cornered by saying that he hasn't played well.  Unless there is an argument that there is a version of not playing well that makes the team a winner.  I am not saying there isn't an argument like that -- don't know -- I haven't really thought about it before until this season because the arguments here by "some" teeter in that direction.

 

18 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

 

 

I dont get the "selling" part. Seems some ppl who have strong negative opinions of Alex are coming from a position that Jay and FO sold him as an upgrade and us fans who dont hold strong negative views of Alex are polly annas who are over selling his turnover ratio as a way to sell him to the other fans.

 

 

To each their own.  But from my perspective, i don't think so.  People selling that we are winning because of him albeit with disclaimers -- that's one heck of a stronger argument than hey they are being challenged because they don't have strong negative views.

 

I don't have a strong negative view myself.  I am negative about his play thus far.  Not strongly negative but overall negative.   But mentioned I've seen improvement in the last 2 games and think he will play better.  

 

18 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

If you cant see some of the good Alex can bring bc of his bad, thats your opinion and right. My opinion is its not all bad.

 

 

Not sure what position and who you are arguing against -- whose making the its all been bad argument?

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11 hours ago, -JB- said:

HOLD UP! ✋

 

Are you idiots insisting that the Redskins trade two first rounders and a third to trade up for another QB? Because that’s why the Chiefs traded Alex Smith to the Redskins.  Because they traded all that for a QB.  Are we seriously going there?  AGAIN? ?

 

Amen!  Never travel down Idiot Lane again.  Some better run organizations can go down that path but cannot the Skins because they WILL PICK THE LOSER!  There could be 3 or 4 winners in the Top 8 QBs available in the draft, more likely 1 or 2 winners, but for the sake of discussion 3-4 winners in the top 8 QBs available and the Skins will choose poorly.

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3 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Amen!  Never travel down Idiot Lane again.  Some better run organizations can go down that path but cannot the Skins because they WILL PICK THE LOSER!  There could be 3 or 4 winners in the Top 8 QBs available in the draft, more likely 1 or 2 winners, but for the sake of discussion 3-4 winners in the top 8 QBs available and the Skins will choose poorly.

 

No doubt that's their history but they haven't exactly been geniuses at trading for veterans or going in FA either.    If they ever did a 30-30 on Dan, I'd say at least 30 minutes will be dedicated to his epic mistakes at QB -- starting with dumping Brad Johnson for Jeff George and the rest of the comedy of errors. 

 

The one thing about this Redskins FO -- I trust their college scouting over the pro scouting.  Cooley who has spent a lot of time in that building has said the same.

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6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

No doubt that's their history but they haven't exactly been geniuses at trading for veterans or going in FA either.    If they ever did a 30-30 on Dan, I'd say at least 30 minutes will be dedicated to his epic mistakes at QB -- starting with dumping Brad Johnson for Jeff George and the rest of the comedy of errors. 

 

The one thing about this Redskins FO -- I trust their college scouting over the pro scouting.  Cooley who has spent a lot of time in that building has said the same.

 

I trust neither.  Snyder cannot even recognize a very good NFL when he is on the roster.  We have seen Snyder draft losers at QB and trade for losers at QB.  Andy Reid can pick and trade QBs he has that skill but Dan Snyder does not he is a sure bet to blow it if he trades up.  Snyder would be smarter to focus on improving the OL and the rest of team in the draft and outsource the selection of a college quarterback to Mike Shanahan with the explicit instructions to identify a smart kid with 2-3 years of success out of a pro set in college.  Shanahan may find another winner for the Skins, Snyder and his crew will fail.

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12 hours ago, -JB- said:

HOLD UP! ✋

 

Are you idiots insisting that the Redskins trade two first rounders and a third to trade up for another QB? Because that’s why the Chiefs traded Alex Smith to the Redskins.  Because they traded all that for a QB.  Are we seriously going there?  AGAIN? ?

 

I'd love to know who you're referring to.

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Just to provide SOME perspective, not all, as I believe stats have varying levels of value and never tell the whole story. 

 

 

Offensive Stats last two years in wins: 

 

2017

154 points 7 games 22pts per game

 

2018

134 points 6 games 22.3pts per game 

 

 

Defensive stats last two years in wins:

 

2017

104 points - 7 games - 14.8PPG

 

2018

73 total points - 6 games - 12.1PPG

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I live in Kansas City and have watched Alex Smith for 5 years now. His caliber of quarterback play this year has mirrored his past seasons except for 2017. He wins games by not turning the ball over and by not making mistakes. So get used to what you're seeing on the field because unless we trade for the fastest and quickest wide receiver in the NFL who happened to be Smith's teammate last season there probably won't be a dramatic Improvement in the passing game. We will probably win our division and possibly win a playoff game and that to me is an improvement considering that we are finally making above-average roster moves, free agent moves and building through the draft

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OK, time for some bull**** control on the Mahomes trade vs the RG3 trade.

 

The Chiefs spent this on Mahomes:

2017 1st round pick (27th overall)

2017 3rd round pick

2018 1st round pick.  (22nd overall)

 

We spent this on RG3:

2012 1st round pick (6th overall)

2012 2nd round pick (39th overall)

2013 1st round pick (22nd overall)

2014 1st round pick (2nd overall)

 

 

If you think these are at all close, you don't know what a draft pick is worth.

 

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The Alex debate is a lot like the Bruce debate.  Folks with my POV get painted as if we believe literally everything either does is dreadful, like we believe they can’t even walk and chew gum at the same time.

 

When in reality it’s just that they are both ‘meh’.  Good enough to be average, with careers long enough to know exactly what their ceiling is.  Neither inspire any level of hope for that very reason.

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2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

The Alex debate is a lot like the Bruce debate.  Folks with my POV get painted as if we believe literally everything either does is dreadful, like we believe they can’t even walk and chew gum at the same time.

 

When in reality it’s just that they are both ‘meh’.  Good enough to be average, with careers long enough to know exactly what their ceiling is.  Neither inspire any level of hope for that very reason.

Don't compare their winning %

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This all just makes me wonder what most of you will think if we go 12-4 or 11-5 and make the NFC championship game....... Im not predicting anything but at this point its absolutely possible.  So what will you guys think?? Honestly....

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1 minute ago, NeverSurrender said:

So what will you guys think?? Honestly....

 

The same thing just about every single Redskins fan thought in 2005.

 

Imagine what would have happened if we had an actual good QB.

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2 minutes ago, NeverSurrender said:

This all just makes me wonder what most of you will think if we go 12-4 or 11-5 and make the NFC championship game....... Im not predicting anything but at this point its absolutely possible.  So what will you guys think?? Honestly....

 

I don't think that will happen. Simply put offensively we don't score enough points to go against the top teams in the conference. We'll get blown out, just like we did with NO and Atl.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, NeverSurrender said:

This all just makes me wonder what most of you will think if we go 12-4 or 11-5 and make the NFC championship game....... Im not predicting anything but at this point its absolutely possible.  So what will you guys think?? Honestly....

I think most, if not all fans would be ecstatic because that would most likely mean that the offensive play-calling would have improved dramatically along with Alex Smith's efficiency in the passing game. Our defense would have to go from borderline good, to great and like any other team that makes it to the championship game the Skins would have to catch some breaks along the way

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58 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The cool thing about talking to Scot (and yeah he's not perfect) for 2 hours was he explained he's a talent based evaluator.  He doesn't like to force picks or stick to rules.  He was one of the guys who early on last year said Mayfield is the best QB in the draft, at the time it was an outlier position, right now he's looking to be right.  Conversely, he got ironically the Alex Smith-Aaron Rodgers thing wrong.   But still swing for the fences IF you really like a guy.  If you don't like a guy -- don't force it.

 

To me its not about being married to a theory and what happened in the past.  It's about what you think about a specific player.  If I am for example Kyle Smith and Jay Gruden walks into my door and says look i've been studying these guys and Will Grier is really special and explains it to me in detail.  And I can draft him without giving up the farm and he falls to your pick.  Pick the dude.   If you think these QBs are overrated and aren't in love with anyone and think you can develop one who has potential -- your favorite approach -- then do that.

 

But again, I'll point out the FA approach, look at what we did at LG. Look at what SF has done at QB this year. I think that (especially as fans and local media goes) people sleep on the number of young backups who could be starters elsewhere. You definitely want to take the caution not to get into a overpaying deal, but just the fact that you can watch NFL film on a guy, see how he plays in the league, and potentially get him without having to go through the craphoot of the draft - and I don't really mean the whole "will he be good" but more the both teams like this player so how likely is it that we get him? 

 

I mean, who was Nick Mullens before this year? He was a cut / practice squad QB and now he's starting for SF and putting up respectable numbers. Scouting reports on him were AWFUL. Now, he's setting the world on fire. What does Gruden/Smith think of him now? Has he shown any more arm strength this year? What would it take to get him? 

 

And that's just basing it on the regular season. Every year there are guys who look decent to good in preseason and get cut and wind up on practice squads. Heck we brought in a few of those guys last year with Stephen Morris and Kevin Hogan. Neither worked out but I think this is the realm we should be in instead of the higher round picks for a QB. I also liked Kyle Lauletta last year and will be watching him (don't like the trouble he had with the law).

 

But with an older QB room right now, the risk of injury is more and more likely. The way most of these UDFAs and low round picks get a chance is normally through their team investing a lot into a QB and having a younger guy as a backup. Its less likely that we keep a guy like Hogan or Lauletta as the primary backup right now, with the extension given to McCoy but that's the route I think this team should be in. 

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2 minutes ago, NeverSurrender said:

This all just makes me wonder what most of you will think if we go 12-4 or 11-5 and make the NFC championship game....... Im not predicting anything but at this point its absolutely possible.  So what will you guys think?? Honestly....

 

We would enjoy it, naturally. But I presume the question is about who gets credit. As to that, depends how it happens. Based on what I've seen so far, I would guess either:

 

1. Wow we got one of the best D lines in the league, what a finish.

 

2. Adrian Peterson is superman and especially in cold weather.

 

3. Alex really picked it up as Jay keeps telling beat reporters would happen eventually.

 

4. Jay did a great job.

 

Probably a little of all 4 items. 

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6 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

I don't think that will happen. Simply put offensively we don't score enough points to go against the top teams in the conference. We'll get blown out, just like we did with NO and Atl.

 

 

To be fair to the poster he didn't ask whether you thought it would happen or not. His question was would you be happy with the outcome

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Not really.  I post a heck of a lot more in the draft thread than you do.  I am obsessed with the draft.  I don't see that to nearly the same degree from you.  I get you are passionate about embracing they don't trade their picks as much as they used to.  I embrace that, too.  

 

Yeah, I'm almost never in that thread. I listen to draft podcasts and read scouting reports, but I'm at the point where I hate falling in love with any player. I'm always scouring the reports and doing research on who the steals in round 6, 7 and UDFAs will be because thats more fun than just rounds 1 and 2. but there's generally less info on these players. Add to that what I've been talking about in this thread, players who are currently backups or recently cut players who could help us and its more fun to me. 

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5 minutes ago, CutPryorNow said:

I think most, if not all fans would be ecstatic because that would most likely mean that the offensive play-calling would have improved dramatically along with Alex Smith's efficiency in the passing game. Our defense would have to go from borderline good, to great and like any other team that makes it to the championship game the Skins would have to catch some breaks along the way

So, now it's the play calling that is holding Alex back?  You're right, Jay should stop calling all of those plays that get guys wide open down field but have the first and only read be a two-yard check down. Why does he keep calling that same play over and over?  :rofl89:  

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1 minute ago, Taylor 36 said:

So, now it's the play calling that is holding Alex back?  You're right, Jay should stop calling all of those plays that get guys wide open down field but have the first and only read be a two-yard check down. Why does he keep calling that same play over and over?  :rofl89:  

Didn't imply that at all,  but for some 1 + 1 does = 4

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1 minute ago, CutPryorNow said:

Didn't imply that at all,  but for some 1 + 1 does = 4

I quoted what you said.  You more than implied the play calling was bad.  The play calling has been fine for the most part, we just don't have a QB that will execute those plays.

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2 minutes ago, CutPryorNow said:

To be fair to the poster he didn't ask whether you thought it would happen or not. His question was would you be happy with the outcome

 

Although he also said he thought it was entirely possible going 12-4 and getting to the NFC championship game. I supposed I was responding more to that.

 

It would likely be a mix of emotions. Elated, but also waiting for the other shoe to drop. It would be like that for every game we managed to play in the post season.

Simply put I have zero confidence that the offense, specifically Alex Smith can do enough to give the team a realistic chance. So every game would be expecting to get blown out, and yet somehow winning? I'd feel great afterward, but also "knowing" that "we're gonna get torched in the next round".

 

So, it would be a complex set of emotions and thoughts. But then, how do we actually win the games? Is it a defensive beatdown by our guys, is it AP setting Post season records? Is it Smith all of a sudden going back in time to '17?

 

If Smith started to play like that, I would actually feel the most confident about our chances. Because he's been the weak link, and if he uped his play, now we have a good, balanced football team that could compete.

 

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4 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

I quoted what you said.  You more than implied the play calling was bad.  The play calling has been fine for the most part, we just don't have a QB that will execute those plays.

There you go again.  I implied that Smith's efficiency would improve because the play-calling would revolve around more of what he is comfortable doing not what Jay wants him to do. Smith isn't a great passer so why try to make him into one

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Just now, CutPryorNow said:

There you go again.  I implied that Smith's efficiency would improve because the play-calling would revolve around more of what he is comfortable doing not what Jay wants to do. Smith isn't a great passer so why try to make him into one

Ummm, we run stuff that Alex likes and has had “success” with in the past every week.  This narrative that all this is new to him has been destroyed here on several occasions.

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