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Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

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6 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

You truly think Alex Smith is a bad qb?

I don't think he's great, but 5-2 doesn't have me saying he's bad either. I'm usually one of the guys who people get annoyed with for NOT saying that Smith is a dumpster fire lol

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I found this interesting. Alex is on pace for  his 2nd highest yardage output, 4th best TD total, lowest INT output, and 5th highest QB rating.

 

Alex may just be playing Alex Smith ball.

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4 minutes ago, Tay said:

I found this interesting. Alex is on pace for  his 2nd highest yardage output, 4th best TD total, lowest INT output, and 5th highest QB rating.

 

Alex may just be playing Alex Smith ball.

God help us.

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7 minutes ago, Tay said:

I found this interesting. Alex is on pace for  his 2nd highest yardage output, 4th best TD total, lowest INT output, and 5th highest QB rating.

 

Alex may just be playing Alex Smith ball.

That's misleading because he had some really bad years early in his career.

 

He has 8 TD passes through 7 games. That's on pace for less than 20 for the year. That's horrendous in today's NFL.

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1 minute ago, Tay said:

I found this interesting. Alex is on pace for  his 2nd highest yardage output, 4th best TD total, lowest INT output, and 5th highest QB rating.

 

Alex may just be playing Alex Smith ball.

 

Yep. This is actually pretty good for him. Not his best, but a bit better than usual. The only thing that is really down is his completion %. Lifetime I think he is around 63%, and over the last 5 years it's more like 65%. But I see he's at 63% this year, so that isn't outside the norm, but the last 3 weeks have been.

 

So yeah. Alex is being Alex.

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15 hours ago, MisterPinstripe said:

One of the biggest improvements we have seen this year is the opponents starting field position. This games from good special teams play but more importantly few turnovers. Last year we had about 17 drives where the opponent started in OUR territory, this year we are near the tops in the league on oppoenents starting field position. I'll see if I can find that stat again and post it.

 

He isn't putting up the numbers Kirk did, but he's paying off so far where I expected him to and it's having a bigger impact than I thought.

 

I'm completely on board with some of the little things or intangibles that Smith brings. I don't think it's coincidence or great luck that good records tend to follow him more seasons than not. So, credit where its due. 

 

None of that is mutually exclusive from hitting the 2-4 easyish plays that we seem to miss on each game. If he can continue what he's doing and just execute better than he has (even within the conservative way that he plays) I'll be extremely excited about this team. To me, that could be the difference between beating a one-win team 20-13 or 31-13. 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

I don't think he's great, but 5-2 doesn't have me saying he's bad either. I'm usually one of the guys who people get annoyed with for NOT saying that Smith is a dumpster fire lol

Very fare..well thanks for saying he's not a dumpster fire lol..he's definitely missed some throws that had me like what the hell man?!?!..

he definitely had some throws that had me like what the hell man!!??

 

he's definitely made some bad decisions and had me like what the hell man!!??

 

Now that I've got that out of the way I've always liked Alex Smith especially the way he handled the debacle in San Francisco sure he's not doing good for my fantasy team and when I say fantasy team I mean the team in my head that's saying come on let's see a deep pass to Paul Richardson or doctson let's see him with 350 plus yards and 3 touchdowns.. but he's not turning the ball over and we're winning blah blah blah I know I sound like a broken record lol

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14 hours ago, Taylor 36 said:

Cousins came in, played like crazy, breaking nearly every Redskins' passing record, but had no support to help him win (it's always interesting how many folks just conveniently forget all the games that Kirk had this team ahead or took the lead at the end just to have the defense blow it, like the Lions and Saints).  Still, the front office offered no deal.  Wouldn't even meet with him.  They franchised him a second time.  At that point, then, Kirk started to waiver on whether he wanted to be here.  Still, as was reported by Reid and a few others, he would have stayed if the FO would have played ball.  They didn't.  They put one low-ball offer on the table, knowing damn well that it wasn't close to what would be accepted.  All so Allen could save face to the press and say, "Well, schucks, I tried."  

 

The sad thing is that there are so many folks that celebrated that.  Kirk leaving or not, we are still left with Bruce Allen.  Any way you slice it, if you're slicing it honestly, we, Redskins Nation lose.

It's just as amazing how many folks forget all of the back breaking turnovers Kirk had here. But he threw for 5000 yards! The rest of your post is spoon fed media conjecture and a totally simplified version of what most likely went down.

 

And Bruce Allen can stay for as long as he likes doing whatever the hell he does these days if it means we continue the way we've been building.

 

I would get the Kirk talk if we were 2-5 and the Vikings were 8-0 on their way to a Super Bowl. The fact we have a better record halfway through the season and there are so many posters discussing Kirk still is frankly mind boggling to me. You must value fantasy football and box scores more than the W column. That is all.

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At this point, if Alex can be a bit more accurate, especially on the shorter throws, (his ball placement is killed YAC this year) and hit some of the short rhythm passes better, that will be enough. I'm not expecting him to go deep, just clean up the short stuff. If he can do that, and get around 67% I think that will be good enough to win the division. I also think that will be good enough to get us a playoff win (I expect  to host the WC game), I think we'll be good enough to beat a non-division NFC team this year, if Alex gets more accurate.

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Always interesting to see the contrast in how folks view things.  The truth is usually in the middle somewhere.

 

Kind of like how the optimal QB for this current team is somewhere in the middle of taking chances that lead to turnovers and being so cautious it’s damn near impossible to turn it over.

 

One QB throws with anticipation which inevitably will lead to more turnovers and more overall offense. The other simply doesn’t throw with anticipation, which results in less turnovers, but less offense.

 

That said, the optimal situation would be the quarterback that creates more offense, but throws it way less and lets the running game do more work.  Creating tremendous opportunity for the better passer, who is great at play action, to destroy opposing defenses and keep them on their heels regularly.

 

But really, these debates are nauseating and tiresome.  You guys rock on.

 

 

 

 

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I have to admit in all the times I have watched Alex over the past decade, I cannot recall the gross inaccuracies. Maybe a closet KC fan can chime in.

 

Is his completion % up to snuff with his career numbers.... I assume so, but its more than that. Missing, vs missing ugly, are 2 different things.

Edited by RandyHolt
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47 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

It's just as amazing how many folks forget all of the back breaking turnovers Kirk had here. But he threw for 5000 yards! The rest of your post is spoon fed media conjecture and a totally simplified version of what most likely went down.

 

I would get the Kirk talk if we were 2-5 and the Vikings were 8-0 on their way to a Super Bowl. The fact we have a better record halfway through the season and there are so many posters discussing Kirk still is frankly mind boggling to me. You must value fantasy football and box scores more than the W column. That is all.

its difficult to compare qbs in different years since nfl is such a year to year league. Last year Skins were bottom of the barrel in D and running game. This year they are in the top five in both. Would this have effected Kirks output and winning percentage? probably.. but we will never know. Kirk is who he is, gunslinger who doesn't take care of the ball as well as he should. 

While Smith was always booked as conservative game manager who can read the Ds well and accurate short to intermediate throws with some deep throw 2017 potential.

what we got is a conservative game manager that is uncomfortable in the pocket, cant read Ds and not accurate on most throws. Now while he deserves some minor credit for not giving the games away this season.. its a small credit since most of the work was done by D and AP.. and as a QB he is expected to put the team on his back and win with his arm when necessary.. he hasnt shown the ability to do that so far.

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43 minutes ago, oraphus said:

its difficult to compare qbs in different years since nfl is such a year to year league. Last year Skins were bottom of the barrel in D and running game. This year they are in the top five in both. Would this have effected Kirks output and winning percentage? probably.. but we will never know. Kirk is who he is, gunslinger who doesn't take care of the ball as well as he should. 

While Smith was always booked as conservative game manager who can read the Ds well and accurate short to intermediate throws with some deep throw 2017 potential.

what we got is a conservative game manager that is uncomfortable in the pocket, cant read Ds and not accurate on most throws. Now while he deserves some minor credit for not giving the games away this season.. its a small credit since most of the work was done by D and AP.. and as a QB he is expected to put the team on his back and win with his arm when necessary.. he hasnt shown the ability to do that so far.

Agreed, Smith must be better if we want to be a real threat, no arguments there.

 

I just don't get the feeling we should be crying over our old QB when we are 5-2. I totally get analyzing and pointing out criticisms of our current QB. If you think we are 7-0 with Kirk, let's just agree to disagree. But that's the only reason I could see being upset he's gone. He's going on year 4 as a starter and he's around the same record every year. And please don't try and sell me that he doesn't have the tools on that Vikings team to succeed.

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20 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Agreed, Smith must be better if we want to be a real threat, no arguments there.

 

I just don't get the feeling we should be crying over our old QB when we are 5-2. I totally get analyzing and pointing out criticisms of our current QB. If you think we are 7-0 with Kirk, let's just agree to disagree. But that's the only reason I could see being upset he's gone. He's going on year 4 as a starter and he's around the same record every year. And please don't try and sell me that he doesn't have the tools on that Vikings team to succeed.

 

"QB wins" is never going to be convincing. Aaron Rodgers is 3-3-1 right now. 

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15 minutes ago, PF Chang said:

 

"QB wins" is never going to be convincing. Aaron Rodgers is 3-3-1 right now. 

Well then Kirky boy and all of his journals on all of the teams around the league made the wrong call then by wanting to get to FA, didn't he? Sucks for him, he left the better team behind I guess.

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21 minutes ago, PF Chang said:

 

"QB wins" is never going to be convincing. Aaron Rodgers is 3-3-1 right now. 

Rodgers is hurt.  Still putting up numbers and keeping his team in the game.  Put him on a team with a good defense and he can make their below average receivers look good. He's freaking accurate, even on a gimp leg.

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22 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Well then Kirky boy and all of his journals on all of the teams around the league made the wrong call then by wanting to get to FA, didn't he? Sucks for him, he left the better team behind I guess.

 

lol. You sound very level headed about this. Unsure I'm even comprehending your point. Is this "all of his journalists on all the teams around the league" some sort of conspiracy suggestion? The truth is out there.

 

14 minutes ago, Redd said:

Rodgers is hurt.  Still putting up numbers and keeping his team in the game.  Put him on a team with a good defense and he can make their below average receivers look good. He's freaking accurate, even on a gimp leg.

 

Yes, Rodgers kicks ass. Point is the record argument doesn't make sense, it's just used to argue in bad faith. 

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1 minute ago, PF Chang said:

 

lol. You sound very level headed about this. Unsure I'm even comprehending your point. Is this "all of his journalists on all the teams around the league" some sort of conspiracy suggestion? The truth is out there.

 

Actually HCZ is Bruce Allen, He comes and posts here while drinking Coors Light and botching contracts. ;)

 

1 minute ago, PF Chang said:

 

Yes, Rodgers kicks ass. Point is the record argument doesn't make sense, it's just used to argue in bad faith. 

 

This.

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3 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

It's just as amazing how many folks forget all of the back breaking turnovers Kirk had here. But he threw for 5000 yards! The rest of your post is spoon fed media conjecture and a totally simplified version of what most likely went down.

 

And Bruce Allen can stay for as long as he likes doing whatever the hell he does these days if it means we continue the way we've been building.

 

I would get the Kirk talk if we were 2-5 and the Vikings were 8-0 on their way to a Super Bowl. The fact we have a better record halfway through the season and there are so many posters discussing Kirk still is frankly mind boggling to me. You must value fantasy football and box scores more than the W column. That is all.

Spoon fed?  Only because it doesn't support your agenda and you have no facts to counter it with. 

 

Your love for Bruce Allen will get you nowhere.  If you think he is the mastermind behind building this team then you are possibly lost beyond hope.

 

As far as the Kirk and Alex comparisons, if you watch them play this year and have even the slightest clue about the game of football and the QB position and still can't see that Kirk has played miles ahead of Alex this year, then you need to get to a neurologist as soon as possible.  The only people who would even think about claiming that Kirk hasn't out played Alex are the extreme Kirk haters and the extreme Alex lovers.  It's not even a question to people who know the sport.  But, of course, the other 52 guys don't have anything to do with the wins or the losses, just the QB, right?  Again, you don't like facts, huh?  Truth is, the Redskins are winning and the Vikes are losing in spite of their QB's.

 

EDIT - I just learned from @Mornebladepost above that you are Bruce Allen.  Now, it all makes sense! :) 

Edited by Taylor 36
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40 minutes ago, PF Chang said:

 

lol. You sound very level headed about this. Unsure I'm even comprehending your point. Is this "all of his journalists on all the teams around the league" some sort of conspiracy suggestion? The truth is out there.

The point is that somebody who keeps journals on all 31 other teams around the league for when he hits FA, is not somebody you can tell me with a straight face had any intentions of being here. And even though Bruce handled it far from perfectly, Kirk and his agent played just as much of a role.

34 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

Spoon fed?  Only because it doesn't support your agenda and you have no facts to counter it with. 

 

Your love for Bruce Allen will get you nowhere.  If you think he is the mastermind behind building this team then you are possibly lost beyond hope.

 

As far as the Kirk and Alex comparisons, if you watch them play this year and have even the slightest clue about the game of football and the QB position and still can't see that Kirk has played miles ahead of Alex this year, then you need to get to a neurologist as soon as possible.  The only people who would even think about claiming that Kirk hasn't out played Alex are the extreme Kirk haters and the extreme Alex lovers.  It's not even a question to people who know the sport.  But, of course, the other 52 guys don't have anything to do with the wins or the losses, just the QB, right?  Again, you don't like facts, huh?  Truth is, the Redskins are winning and the Vikes are losing in spite of their QB's.

 

EDIT - I just learned from @Mornebladepost above that you are Bruce Allen.  Now, it all makes sense! :) 

I've watched Kirk this year plenty. Same guy. Some pretty throws followed by WTF moments. And a similar record as in Washington with who everyone and their mother thought was a far superior team.

 

I feel bad for people like you honestly that can't appreciate and enjoy how awesome the rest of the team is around Alex, and instead consumes themselves with hating Bruce Allen and missing the QB who won 0 playoff games while in DC. Even flat out choked to get into the playoffs in 2016. That's just really sad to me.

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18 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

I feel bad for people like you honestly that can't appreciate and enjoy how awesome the rest of the team is around Alex, and instead consumes themselves with hating Bruce Allen and missing the QB who won 0 playoff games while in DC. Even flat out choked to get into the playoffs in 2016. That's just really sad to me.

What’s really sad is how often you post as if you are the most rational guy on the forum that feels sorry for the “miserable” folks who don’t see things the way you do.  We’re all consumed with hating Bruce so much, we can’t possibly have the clarity that you do.  It’s a staple of your posting history.

 

This is the Alex Smith thread.  Folks are going to talk about Alex Smith here.  But to your attempted point of not enjoying the team around him, that’s crap.  Practically everyone is saying it’s the rest of the team carrying the load.  

 

 

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22 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

The point is that somebody who keeps journals on all 31 other teams around the league for when he hits FA, is not somebody you can tell me with a straight face had any intentions of being here. And even though Bruce handled it far from perfectly, Kirk and his agent played just as much of a role.

I've watched Kirk this year plenty. Same guy. Some pretty throws followed by WTF moments. And a similar record as in Washington with who everyone and their mother thought was a far superior team.

 

I feel bad for people like you honestly that can't appreciate and enjoy how awesome the rest of the team is around Alex, and instead consumes themselves with hating Bruce Allen and missing the QB who won 0 playoff games while in DC. Even flat out choked to get into the playoffs in 2016. That's just really sad to me.

 

I've never thought he wanted to be here. We have mostly sucked for almost 30 years and particularly since Snyder bought the team the issue is organizational incompetence. Anyone neutral would have told him to get out of here if he had a choice. Be mad at Cousins all you want in this scorned ex-lover way but to me it looks like an emotional tantrum not an honest accounting of the situation. 

 

I think everyone is pleasantly surprised with the defense. I've said the team deserves credit for finally using high picks on the DL which is paying off. That being said we have zero chance of beating the Rams/Saints and I think if we had a good QB, we'd actually be Super Bowl contenders. Yes I'm bitter that now that we finally seem to have a Super Bowl caliber defense we significantly downgrade at QB and have no shot at beating the real contenders. 

 

We haven't won a playoff game since 2005 so this whole roster won 0 playoff games in DC! How do you find this kind of thing convincing? 

 

Defensive rankings:

2017 - #27 points, #21 yards

2016 - #19 points, #28 yards

2015 - #17 points, #28 yards

2014 - #29 points, #20 yards

2013 - #30 points, #18 yards

 

...and so on. You have to go back to 2008 before this gets better. This year we're #5 in points and #4 in yards so far. 

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1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

What’s really sad is how often you post as if you are the most rational guy on the forum that feels sorry for the “miserable” folks who don’t see things the way you do.  We’re all consumed with hating Bruce so much, we can’t possibly have the clarity that you do.  It’s a staple of your posting history.

 

This is the Alex Smith thread.  Folks are going to talk about Alex Smith here.  But to your attempted point of not enjoying the team around him, that’s crap.  Practically everyone is saying it’s the rest of the team carrying the load.  

 

 

I'm not even referring to you so not sure why you feel the need to jump in and act as if I'm trashing you personally. You are someone who has been critical of Alex, and rightfully so, but I don't see you clamoring for Kirk Cousins or anything like that (maybe I missed it).

 

Your first point in bold is a giant leap on your part. Me feeling bad for those that can't enjoy the team's success more than the hatred for Bruce/losing Kirk is not me saying I'm more rational. It's me saying I feel bad... good times are few and far between around here. And if you don't think what I'm saying exists, then you aren't paying attention. Or it just doesn't bother you because you are a bit of a negative nelly yourself ?.

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