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Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum


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10 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm not championing Smith as some phenomenal QB that's doing the lords work on the field for us, despite everyone holding him back. I'm just saying he was severely handicapped. Maybe if we had his 3 favorite options out there, they wouldn't have been able to take our TEs out and there would be more field to work. He over threw our bust 1rst round WR and our 3rd string blocking TE. They may of had a hand in that too. He hit Bibbs in the hands and he dropped it too.

 

 

The point I've been trying to make... thank you.  Sprinkle is 2 steps slower than Reed /  Davis.  Either one of them are on that route and it's an easy TD.  Floyd also dropped the hail mary to end the half.  He wasn't great by any means but it's not like he's out there throwing to The Posse.  

2 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

Yeah but what Patrick Mahomes is doing with the same cast of players that Alex had is really hard to ignore.  I'm having a hard time giving Alex the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

Who said anything about ignoring the fact that KC has better playmakers than we do?  I think anyone on here would agree with that... I don't understand why that doesn't further support the idea that Alex is not as bad as a lot of people are claiming because he doesn't have the supporting cast.  That's not on him, that's on the front office.   A lot of us would agree that they should have done more to get better playmakers on the outside.  If we had Hunt, Hill,  Kelce... how do you think our offense would look?  In fact, put those 3 guys on 25 other teams and they instantly make those teams better.  

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I think a lot of people underestimate the benefits that Alex Smith brings off the field. Far and away one of the biggest criticisms of Kirk Cousins was that he wasn't the leader in the locker room that the team needed him to be. By all accounts, Smith has given this team an air of confidence and resounding calmness that the Skins haven't seen in years. We've been conditioned for the longest time to think that 'winning off the field' is a terrible thing to do. There is a different type of winning off the field that we are seeing right now and I'm guessing that at least part of that is attributable to the sense of professionalism and consistency that Alex Smith brings. 

 

We are 4-2. Now is the last time to start talking about replacing a top 20 QB for a journeyman in Colt McCoy. 

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I was listening to Santana today on the radio he encapsulated just about every opinion here in one fell swoop.  He goes more or less why all the pessimism -- the team has won with an offense that isn't good -- how remarkable is that?  He talked about instead of trashing the offense (which he agrees Alex hasn't been good) celebrate the defense and that they can win without having a hot offense. 

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8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I was listening to Santana today on the radio he encapsulated just about every opinion here in one fell swoop.  He goes more or less why all the pessimism -- the team has won with an offense that isn't good -- how remarkable is that?  He talked about instead of trashing the offense (which he agrees Alex hasn't been good) celebrate the defense and that they can win without having a hot offense. 

Sort of where I'm at. I actually had a funny feeling that our offense was going to be slow out the gates. I remember it took Kirk being in Jay's system for about a year and a half before he really turned the corner. I honestly think it's somewhat encouraging we are 4-2 and Smith is playing the way he is. Because as you pointed out that Moss said, the defense has been stingy outside of that New Orleans game. I'm pretty firmly in the group that we haven't seen Smith's best and this is not who he is and  I expect a much better second half of the season from him. And if we get that, we are firmly in the next group of teams behind New Orleans and the Rams.

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3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Um, we are winning now.

I wanted to let Kirk walk and sign case Keenum or Fitz two years ago.

 

Winning barley not because of Alex though. No?

 

I was dumbfounded when they got Alex instead of Keenum. He was the perfect 1 year rental if not more. That is my point of trying to win every year instead of trying to build a sound foundation that can last for years to come. 

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15 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Sort of where I'm at. I actually had a funny feeling that our offense was going to be slow out the gates. I remember it took Kirk being in Jay's system for about a year and a half before he really turned the corner. I honestly think it's somewhat encouraging we are 4-2 and Smith is playing the way he is. Because as you pointed out that Moss said, the defense has been stingy outside of that New Orleans game. I'm pretty firmly in the group that we haven't seen Smith's best and this is not who he is and  I expect a much better second half of the season from him. And if we get that, we are firmly in the next group of teams behind New Orleans and the Rams.

 

I am about 75% or so where you are at.  The defense has been very good.  Peterson has been insane.  I am ok with and even like winning with a ball control style of offense.

 

I disagree with those here who suggest Alex has been good (granted not many are saying it) or he's been a vital part of these wins (specifically the Carolina and Dallas game) where avoiding turnovers is the be all and end all and implying everything else is a distant second.  But I do agree if your defense is lights out and running game superb there is a value to having a QB who might not be spectacular but doesn't blow up all the good work from other units.  Sort of like Trent Dilfer when the Ravens won the SB long time back.

 

My issue is I don't think you can win a SB with that formula or get deep into the playoffs these days.  There are too many explosive offenses (see the Saints or Rams, etc) who can jump ahead and then you are in trouble.  Getting to the playoffs would be nice don't get me wrong but just making it and getting knocked out right away doesn't get me that jazzed albeit its better than not making it at all.  

 

As for Alex, i am not sure about him.  I was more upbeat about him before the season.  As you likely recall, I liked him not loved him.  thought he was good but not great.  So for me it's not about being right (right now I've been wrong on him, I thought he'd be good -- so if its about being right, him picking it up and paying better would help my prediction) and its not about Kirk either.  Just like all of us, I watch a lot of football and have seen a lot of Qb play -- and i am surprised at Alex's performance.  And I think his mediocre numbers fit to a tee how his play has come off to me.

 

The reason why it concerns me beyond him just learning the offense is I've seen some fundamental issues that bother me.  I hated those throws he made to Peterson and Thompson in the Saints game that got both leveled and Thompson is still hurt from it.  I don't like the fact that he looks like he plays scared at times both in terms of his feet in the pocket when he senses pressure (that isn't always there) and the fact that he likes the safe pass.  What really got me a little down is listening to Cooley's film review.  Once I heard him, I started freezing some of these plays and studied them.  And I saw what he was saying.  I am not so sure that that has anything to do with him learning the system but more about his style of play. 

 

I don't think the dude is a disaster.  And i think they can win to an extent with this formula as long as Peterson keeps balling.  Peterson in Minny took his teams to the playoffs with mediocre QB play.  It's doable.  And yeah the better play certainly might be on the way. 

 

I got more uncertainty about Alex than i did before.  I am not in the school that some in the thread are at which is that he's mediocre and worse than that -- and we are stuck with it.  I am also not in the school of hey he's been good, its just bitter grapes to believe otherwise or slam dunk the 2017 version of Alex is coming.  i am in purgatory right now between the two camps.  Uncertain.   If I had to pick a direction, I'd guess he will improve.  What am not sure about is by how much?

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Smith, one of the game's most dependable quarterbacks, and a master of the fundamentals, has now struggled to find his open receivers at times in three consecutive weeks.

 

To be fair, he's done some good things, too. He hasn't turned the ball over, he's made several good throws under pressure, and he saved a 12-men-in-the-huddle penalty before halftime. But he also missed three open receivers on that drive to end the first half, potentially costing his team points.

But Smith's decision to run out of bounds with 1:18 remaining was the most prominent of many miscues.

"You saw that, huh?" Smith said with a laugh. "I knew a first down would end the game, and I did have glimpses of getting the first down - whatever it took."

To start the second half, Smith missed what should have been a sure-thing touchdown throw to Jeremy Sprinkle, and Washington had to settle for a field goal.

The Redskins had the ball in Dallas territory six times on Sunday. They got 13 points out of those drives. Smith was so good in last year in Kansas City to start the season, it's fair to ask if this is on the coach/playcalling or the player, but it's time to get to the bottom of these issues.

 
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Honestly the only pass from Smith that I think he really missed was the one to Sprinkle. There were some timing issues, some feet in bounds issues, and some drops, that I think could have made Smith's statline look a lot better. 

 

Other stuff like not going to Reed or running too much, being conservative etc, is more on Jay and just the offense developing, but I think Alex played an ok game that could have been good if he placed a few balls differently. 

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19 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It’s hard to say right now to put Colt in as the team is 4-2 and Alex is sneaky bad in that his negatives are being outweighed by AP and the defenses positives.

 

However, if this offense lays another egg in NY and loses another while the defense gives up less than 20, and then then can’t find a way to score on the damn Falcons...all this is actually a very legit conversation.  

 

Its hard to even envision the above happening after a win like yesterday.  But you never know.  I’d venture a guess that might be enough to get a look at Colt.  If Jay is allowed.

IF Jay is allowed IS the operable question. Good point.  He will not have the backing of BA will he.  

 

I am so looking forward to two very bad QB's going at it this Sunday.....geez.  The problem with Eli, even at his worst, tends to do well against us.  It is going to be a big test for our D.  And Alex must come through. 

 

If Alex is looking putrid in the first half I would really like to see Gruden put  McCoy in to start the second half.  Colt had a decent preseason and while I am sure he is NOT the answer long term, he is probably better then Alex Smith at this point.  At least in terms of comfort with the offense, if that really is the issue with Alex. 

 

And I am not sure time and comfort with the offense is going to change the trajectory of Alex's game.  

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Gruden sort of summarizes all views here.  He didn't argue Alex is playing well.  He did argue that he will though.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/10/22/redskins-offense-has-been-sluggish-jay-gruden-says-big-plays-will-come/?utm_term=.96f19372a60a

 

Smith has not looked like the quarterback the Redskins thought they were getting when they traded with Kansas City to acquire him in March. He followed a 163-yard passing game with just 178 yards Sunday and has just seven touchdowns in six games. Several times he missed open pass catchers with throws that sailed too long or too wide.

 

...The first six games of Smith’s Redskins career have been a mystery. The team’s coaches didn’t expect him to throw for more than 4,000 yards the way he did last year with a Chiefs offense loaded with skilled playmakers. The approach in Washington was to run a more balanced and controlled offense, relying less on wild, explosive plays and instead moving methodically downfield with crisper, midrange throws.

 

But Smith has struggled so far on plays he was expected to make with little trouble. His completion percentage of 63.3 is his worst since 2013, his first year in Kansas City, and his completion percentage in each game has steadily dropped from 71 percent in a Week 2 loss to Indianapolis to 56 percent Sunday.

 

Gruden said there is nothing specifically wrong with Smith and continued to say he expects better statistics in coming weeks.

 

Part of his enthusiasm comes from the way the offensive line played against Dallas. In recent weeks, the line — a presumed strength of the team — had struggled, especially after guard Shawn Lauvao went down with a calf injury in the Indianapolis game and the Redskins had to patch together a line for the next three games. Lauvao returned Sunday, and Gruden said he was thrilled with what he saw as he reviewed tape on Monday.

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Cooley did some brief film review on Alex on Galdi's show.

 

He said this:  If you watch Alex closely he looks at his first read, if that read isn't open he looks around to see if there is pressure, if he sees pressure or thinks it might be coming, he starts moving in the pocket.  He said it wasn't that different in KC but the difference here is when he scrambles in the pocket and throws on the move he's not accurate and was more accurate in KC.

 

He said that Alex needs to sense pressure versus scan pressure with his eyes and stay with his reeds longer.  OK, don't kill the messenger ? -- thats just Cooley's opinion.   Cooley thinks Alex can and likely will improve even if he plays in a similar way if his accuracy picks up. 

 

He said for example on the third down where he ran out of bounds with the game on the line, he overreacted to pressure he thought was coming from one direction, but if he just moved a foot or two the other way in the pocket he had open receivers but instead he panicked and took off.  Cooley suggesting that Alex is panicking too much -- going back to what Cooley says during the broadcasts, he's playing too much with happy feet. 

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2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Cooley thinks Alex can and likely will improve even if he plays in a similar way if his accuracy picks up. 

 

Yeah, I don’t ever expect him to just stand in there, dance in the pocket and fire lasers.  But the part that has been the biggest letdown is being woefully inaccurate.  That has to improve.  However part of it to me looks like he also isn’t willing to just stand in there and get hit to make a play.  Not sure how much of that he did in KC, but it’s practically a requirement in this offense.  Have to get pegged to make the big play sometimes.

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33 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Yeah, I don’t ever expect him to just stand in there, dance in the pocket and fire lasers.  But the part that has been the biggest letdown is being woefully inaccurate.  That has to improve.  However part of it to me looks like he also isn’t willing to just stand in there and get hit to make a play.  Not sure how much of that he did in KC, but it’s practically a requirement in this offense.  Have to get pegged to make the big play sometimes.

 

Cooley is far from perfect and heck he doesn't always say what I want to hear -- for example I liked RG3 in 2014 but Cooley was killing him on film and he was proven right.  Cooley has called a number of guys in film for struggling who were then subsequently released.  So I trust Cooley albeit he's not perfect.  The drum beat-criticism he has on Alex is skittishness in the pocket, he's afraid to get hit so its effecting him sticking with his reads and feet work.  

 

Cooley seems to be suggesting if Alex calms down in the pocket it would fix it.

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7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Cooley is far from perfect and heck he doesn't always say what I want to hear -- for example I liked RG3 in 2014 but Cooley was killing him on film and he was proven right.  Cooley has called a number of guys in film for struggling who were then subsequently released.  So I trust Cooley albeit he's not perfect.  The drum beat-criticism he has on Alex is skittishness in the pocket, he's afraid to get hit so its effecting him sticking with his reads and feet work.  

 

Cooley seems to be suggesting if Alex's calms down in the pocket it would fix it.

 

This is the thing that surprises me most. Not being in sync, timing a bit off, not knowing all the reads are expected as you learn a new offense and with new team mates, especially when 3 primary targets are out for inquiry. But I did not expect to him with all the happy feet. I expected a calmer presence in the pocket. He was that guy against AZ. He was calm and got through the progressions, no happy feet. 

 

Also I have watched games of him elsewhere and maybe I just missed it but i do not remember him playing like that - with those happy feet. I watched a lot of Peyton Manning since I lived in Indiana for 10 yrs or so and whenever he had happy feet he threw picks. I could always tell when he would have a bad game. Now fortunately at least to this point Alex is not throwing picks, but he is not playing well either. 

 

That's a long way of saying my non-expert opinion agrees with Cooley that if he settles down in the pocket he will play better. 

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I'll take this.."****ty playing" as alot of people here concider it..wait..let me say this first I wish Smith would have hit sprinkle in the ez..that was on Smith..so was missing doctson...back to my point..as long as that ****ty playing isn't turning the ball over..I'll take it.

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16 hours ago, skinsfan834 said:

I think a lot of people underestimate the benefits that Alex Smith brings off the field. Far and away one of the biggest criticisms of Kirk Cousins was that he wasn't the leader in the locker room that the team needed him to be. By all accounts, Smith has given this team an air of confidence and resounding calmness that the Skins haven't seen in years. We've been conditioned for the longest time to think that 'winning off the field' is a terrible thing to do. There is a different type of winning off the field that we are seeing right now and I'm guessing that at least part of that is attributable to the sense of professionalism and consistency that Alex Smith brings. 

 

We are 4-2. Now is the last time to start talking about replacing a top 20 QB for a journeyman in Colt McCoy. 

 

Smith is the 24th ranked passer in the NFL right now. That is bottom third in the league. He's been getting worse as the year progresses. and to be quite honest, the "leadership" looks to be coming from other people. If anyone on the offense has tightened that group up, it's Peterson. He out works and out prepares everyone, and I think the rest of the team is looking at the future HoFer and seeing how he works and prepares, and following suite.

 

4 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

This is the thing that surprises me most. Not being in sync, timing a bit off, not knowing all the reads are expected as you learn a new offense and with new team mates, especially when 3 primary targets are out for inquiry. But I did not expect to him with all the happy feet. I expected a calmer presence in the pocket. He was that guy against AZ. He was calm and got through the progressions, no happy feet. 

 

Also I have watched games of him elsewhere and maybe I just missed it but i do not remember him playing like that - with those happy feet. I watched a lot of Peyton Manning since I lived in Indiana for 10 yrs or so and whenever he had happy feet he threw picks. I could always tell when he would have a bad game. Now fortunately at least to this point Alex is not throwing picks, but he is not playing well either. 

 

That's a long way of saying my non-expert opinion agrees with Cooley that if he settles down in the pocket he will play better. 

 

Alex has always had happy feet. He's never been a great pocket passer, and is not the guy that will stand in there. He's never really had good pocket presence.

 

And Manning always moved his feet. Always. But for very different reasons. It was part of his game. The reason, was, if you're always moving your feet, you can adjust quickly and put your body into the correct position to throw the football. It's very different from what most QB's are taught. I've watched a ton of Manning, all the way back to UT when he was a Freshman.

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Cooley did some brief film review on Alex on Galdi's show.

 

He said this:  If you watch Alex closely he looks at his first read, if that read isn't open he looks around to see if there is pressure, if he sees pressure or thinks it might be coming, he starts moving in the pocket.  He said it wasn't that different in KC but the difference here is when he scrambles in the pocket and throws on the move he's not accurate and was more accurate in KC.

 

He said that Alex needs to sense pressure versus scan pressure with his eyes and stay with his reeds longer.  OK, don't kill the messenger ? -- thats just Cooley's opinion.   Cooley thinks Alex can and likely will improve even if he plays in a similar way if his accuracy picks up. 

 

He said for example on the third down where he ran out of bounds with the game on the line, he overreacted to pressure he thought was coming from one direction, but if he just moved a foot or two the other way in the pocket he had open receivers but instead he panicked and took off.  Cooley suggesting that Alex is panicking too much -- going back to what Cooley says during the broadcasts, he's playing too much with happy feet. 

 

Ya, this part of his game isn’t changing. Alex is who he is in the pocket— in my opinion. I agree 100% with Cooley and hes been consistent with point dating back to Alex trade being announced. I think he gets to his second read in a good amount snaps as well though. With that said, an increase in comfort in the system will mitigate average to below average pocket awareness. 

 

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37 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Smith is the 24th ranked passer in the NFL right now. That is bottom third in the league. He's been getting worse as the year progresses. and to be quite honest, the "leadership" looks to be coming from other people. If anyone on the offense has tightened that group up, it's Peterson. He out works and out prepares everyone, and I think the rest of the team is looking at the future HoFer and seeing how he works and prepares, and following suite.

 

 

 

And you are basing this off what? Are you in the locker room? 

 

Alex Smith has been with the team all off-season. Every single quote that came from a teammate over the summer praised Alex for his professionalism and the even-keel he brings to this team. AP has been a great addition to the team and for sure sets an example for the younger guys, but the QB is the leader on any football team, and our QB has currently helped guide us to a 4-2 record and a first place slot in the NFC East. 

 

We are six games into his tenure with the team. The last two weeks he played without 3 out of his 4 top receiving targets and we still beat two strong NFC teams. Lets give this a few more weeks before we start calling for his head. 

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42 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Edit

 

 

Alex has always had happy feet. He's never been a great pocket passer, and is not the guy that will stand in there. He's never really had good pocket presence.

 

And Manning always moved his feet. Always. But for very different reasons. It was part of his game. The reason, was, if you're always moving your feet, you can adjust quickly and put your body into the correct position to throw the football. It's very different from what most QB's are taught. I've watched a ton of Manning, all the way back to UT when he was a Freshman.

 

There is a difference between moving to make it easier to set and throw in rhythm and having happy feet. One I am very well aware of. I never said he or any QB was or should stay with no feet moving. I understand the mechanics of playing QB. And I saw him at UT and the Colts also. I lived in TN when he was at UT and then moved to Columbus IN the end of his JR year. 

 

I have watched the same and I can tell you I knew when he was just moving his feet in rhythm and when he had happy feet and was going to throw picks and generally play like ****. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, skinsfan834 said:

 

And you are basing this off what? Are you in the locker room? 

 

Alex Smith has been with the team all off-season. Every single quote that came from a teammate over the summer praised Alex for his professionalism and the even-keel he brings to this team. AP has been a great addition to the team and for sure sets an example for the younger guys, but the QB is the leader on any football team, and our QB has currently helped guide us to a 4-2 record and a first place slot in the NFC East. 

 

We are six games into his tenure with the team. The last two weeks he played without 3 out of his 4 top receiving targets and we still beat two strong NFC teams. Lets give this a few more weeks before we start calling for his head. 

 

Players aren’t stupid, after all - they play with the dude.  Literally the only thing preventing chatter about the passing game woes thus far is the record.  Adrian Peterson is a first ballot Hall of famer, Alex Smith might get first dibs on tickets to watch a HOF ceremony.

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24 minutes ago, skinsfan834 said:

 

And you are basing this off what? Are you in the locker room? 

 

Alex Smith has been with the team all off-season. Every single quote that came from a teammate over the summer praised Alex for his professionalism and the even-keel he brings to this team. AP has been a great addition to the team and for sure sets an example for the younger guys, but the QB is the leader on any football team, and our QB has currently helped guide us to a 4-2 record and a first place slot in the NFC East. 

 

We are six games into his tenure with the team. The last two weeks he played without 3 out of his 4 top receiving targets and we still beat two strong NFC teams. Lets give this a few more weeks before we start calling for his head. 

 

Yea, I am not happy with his play over all but the call for McCoy or another QB is crazy. They will have to learn to live with disappointment. I can tell you Alex is not getting benched this season unless the wheels come completely off and there is no way to make the POs or he gets injured. 

 

He is our QB for this season and next. People need to get used to that idea or they will just be perpetually pissed. 

 

I am not sure there are not many fan bases that would be calling for the starting QB to be benched that is 4-2 and in 1st place. Yes, I realize that a few of those wins were thanks to D, but not all.  But it's just game 6 in a new offense with injuries to the 3 of the main targets. 

 

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4 minutes ago, skinsfan834 said:

 

And you are basing this off what? Are you in the locker room? 

 

Alex Smith has been with the team all off-season. Every single quote that came from a teammate over the summer praised Alex for his professionalism and the even-keel he brings to this team. AP has been a great addition to the team and for sure sets an example for the younger guys, but the QB is the leader on any football team, and our QB has currently helped guide us to a 4-2 record and a first place slot in the NFC East. 

 

We are six games into his tenure with the team. The last two weeks he played without 3 out of his 4 top receiving targets and we still beat two strong NFC teams. Lets give this a few more weeks before we start calling for his head. 

 

Are you?

 

We were sold a lot of things this offseason, about how much better Alex was than "The Other Guy". Leadership was one. Well, it's kinda tough to be much of one when you're on three 1 year contracts, as opposed to a 5 year contract. As for all the other stuff, most of it is not showing up either. Smith is not a older version of "The Other Guy", like we were told. He is a game manager that has happy feet, is not a rhythm passer and doesn't take chances. He's always needed a good to great D and really good RB's to succeed.

 

It's funny you mention "even keel". I notice that one of the big issues the offense is tending to have is showing some fire. "The Other Guy" did that, and to be blunt, there are times this team needs a kick in the pants. People are piling on Doctson for "not caring". Alex Smith is about as bad looking. "Staying Medium" isn't always what it's cracked up to be.

 

As for our record, we are 4-2 in spite of Smith. Peterson has lead the offense, and the defense has been the best it's been since we switched to a 3-4 (funny what a NT does). Smith has gone from decent (against what we now know is a terrible Cardinals team) to bad.

 

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