Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

11 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

Alex needs to slide laterally in the pocket instead of vertically, he's moving into the pressure too often by running forward into traffic.

3 main issues are Poor protection, Alex uncomfortable in the pocket, Alex not on the same page with the WR's.

 

 

Does seem like Alex moves to far up into the pocket and steps into pressure. You want a QB to climb the pocket but its strange to see Alex like walk forward into a sack.

[Thinking Skins]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Kirk is a sensitive subject on this thread but I don't think it helps that Kirk actually is off to a relatively hot start in Minny coupled with unexpected challenges doing so.

 

I think this misses the point i was trying to make. How Kirk does now is irrelevant. Some rookie QBs come in and look awesome, some don't, even qbs who wind up looking similar as far as careers go. Maybe Zimmer and that OC are better teachers, maybe Kirk is a better learner, maybe Minny's system and lingo is closer to Washington's, maybe Kirk's a better QB, or a thousand different other reasons explain it, but that's not my point. 

 

Alex is still new here and still has to grow and adjust to our system and coaches. Remember that he had like 4 or 5 coordinators in his first 4 or 5 years, so maybe he learned to get better in a system by doing the safe stuff first. 

 

I don't get too up or down on stuff right now. Unless there's a report like the junkies had with McNabb being a cancer and not knowing the plays, i think it's just an adjustment period and I'm a lot more willing to call these non-lofty numbers through the first third of the season, just growing pains. 

[Thinking Skins]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

There are problems with the submit button on my android phone

[Temper11]

4 hours ago, New World Portis said:

 

Take a look at Crabtree's numbers with Smith and then with Kapernick.

 

Smith makes receivers worse. He also makes offensive lines look worse. It's a fact.

 

Ha ha ha... take a look at vernon davis' numbers with smith and then with crabtree.  Distribution just shifted.  

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

I think this misses the point i was trying to make. How Kirk does now is irrelevant. Some rookie QBs come in and look awesome, some don't, even qbs who wind up looking similar as far as careers go. Maybe Zimmer and that OC are better teachers, maybe Kirk is a better learner, maybe Minny's system and lingo is closer to Washington's, maybe Kirk's a better QB, or a thousand different other reasons explain it, but that's not my point. 

 

Alex is still new here and still has to grow and adjust to our system and coaches. Remember that he had like 4 or 5 coordinators in his first 4 or 5 years, so maybe he learned to get better in a system by doing the safe stuff first. 

 

I don't get too up or down on stuff right now. Unless there's a report like the junkies had with McNabb being a cancer and not knowing the plays, i think it's just an adjustment period and I'm a lot more willing to call these non-lofty numbers through the first third of the season, just growing pains. 

 

You really hammered that point home with that duplicate thread, just kidding ?

 

Fair enough.  I think you missed my point, too.  Considering I flat out said it can take him time and it made sense to me.   My point though is its not a slam dunk though hinderance and used Kirk as that example in Minny.  And that comparison (which is apt IMO) is going to put some heat on him whether its deserved or not.  I've noticed that most of the beat guys have switched from honeymoon faze to concern pretty quickly with at least one of the beat guys suggesting that some coaches have concerns, too.  That got my attention.  

 

My take thus far about Alex.  I buy into the dude being a leader-likable and all that jazz.  I can see that and it makes sense to me.  And i am also ok with a ball control offense to kill the clock that relies on the running game and Alex minimizes turnovers.  My issue is you can't always get away with that game plan, sometimes you get behind and you have to fling the ball to catch up -- I've got concerns that Alex has the ability to do that and I also have some concerns about how check down centric he is which to me seems to be more of a mindset than a learn the system drill.

 

Having said that, I still got an open mind.  I said at the beginning of the season I'll give him 8 games before I land on a position and i said recently I'll give him even more.  In the scheme of things, I am OK as long as they win.  I don't agree for example (not saying you are saying otherwise) that they won because of Alex last Sunday.  But he also didn't screw it up.  And I don't disagree with those who value a QB who doesn't screw it up.   I am just looking for a little more from Alex.  Hopefully its coming soon.

 

[Reaper Skins]

No matter how long Alex has been in the league, a transitional period of getting used to new players, coaches, and playbook was inevitable.

 

My one complaint is that while the transitional period itself isn't impossible to overcome, it could have been avoided completely through better front office management.   FO just made it harder than it needed to be by making a change at all.

 

With that being said, ironing out the kinks is alot more palatable to fans if you are still able to get the W at the end of the day.  So far he's (mostly) been able to deliver in that department 

[New World Portis]

hmmm

[Morneblade]

1 hour ago, Reaper Skins said:

No matter how long Alex has been in the league, a transitional period of getting used to new players, coaches, and playbook was inevitable.

 

No one is actually arguing that. In fact tha is one of the reasons that many of us wanted him to play more in preseason. You know, to help with the transition.

 

1 hour ago, Reaper Skins said:

My one complaint is that while the transitional period itself isn't impossible to overcome, it could have been avoided completely through better front office management.   FO just made it harder than it needed to be by making a change at all.

 

Yeah.

 

1 hour ago, Reaper Skins said:

With that being said, ironing out the kinks is alot more palatable to fans if you are still able to get the W at the end of the day.  So far he's (mostly) been able to deliver in that department 

 

I'd point to Peterson for that. If we don't have him, were 0-5.

[dyst]

There is no real consistent pocket. It's a QBs job to make that pocket. If pressure comes from the right, then dance your way to the left slightly and if doing so brings pressure from the left, then slightly move up etc. Brady does this wonderfully. Some QB's got it and some don't. 

[Going Commando]

4 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

Alex is still new here and still has to grow and adjust to our system and coaches. Remember that he had like 4 or 5 coordinators in his first 4 or 5 years, so maybe he learned to get better in a system by doing the safe stuff first.  

 

I'm not super inclined to be patient with a 34 year old quarterback's growing pains.  Especially one whose only ever been an average player at the position in his long career.  But I also recognize the reality that he's our only decent option and we don't really have a choice but to wait on him and hope he gets better.

[Wildbunny]

1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I'm not super inclined to be patient with a 34 year old quarterback's growing pains.  Especially one whose only ever been an average player at the position in his long career.  But I also recognize the reality that he's our only decent option and we don't really have a choice but to wait on him and hope he gets better.

I agree with this.

 

We've been sold all preseason how he's seen all, done all and was a quick learner.

I'm ok give him time to build some chemistry with our receiving corps. But I'm not sure I'm gonna give it time to learn the ****ing playbook.

[skinfan2k]

also which WR actually have made it to practice this year with smith or actually healthy during preseason

[skinny21]

4 hours ago, skinfan2k said:

also which WR actually have made it to practice this year with smith or actually healthy during preseason

This is a legit issue, but... a lack of comfort with receivers shouldn’t affect turning down open receivers for a check down, waiting too long to throw to an open receiver, or not going through his reads promptly (and other such issues).  

 

Now, if he’s throwing to a spot and Reed is still dancing at the top of his route, or if he’s throwing behind Crowder because he’s exploding out of his cuts... then that would fall under qb/receiver cohesion.  

 

I think we’re seeing too much of the former (and some of the latter - maybe the ball behind Harris the other day, for example).  

 

I’d argue the general lack of YAC for the receivers (outside of Davis and our backs), is a combo of the two.  Waiting too long to hit a receiver means the defender has time to get there, and not putting it in stride means the receivers lose their momentum (and defenders again have more time to get to them).  Last game had a lot of examples of this (the former) - Smith squeezed the ball into receivers right when the defender arrived.  He got bailed out a bit as the receivers showed some good hands to haul it in as they were getting hit.  

[CTskin]

Gruden has been more vocal about Alex's miscues in the last few post-game pressers. He's said it a couple of times now that Alex has stuck on reads too long and missed guys running open. Alex needs to get in Gruden's brain and take that next step. For a guy who was "perfect for this system," I expect to see improvement very soon.

 

That being said, this OL needs to get their **** together. Scherff is the only one playing close to "stud" level. The pass blocking has taken a big step back since last season and it isn't making the QB transition any easier. 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 hours ago, CTskin said:

Gruden has been more vocal about Alex's miscues in the last few post-game pressers. He's said it a couple of times now that Alex has stuck on reads too long and missed guys running open. Alex needs to get in Gruden's brain and take that next step. For a guy who was "perfect for this system," I expect to see improvement very soon.

 

That being said, this OL needs to get their **** together. Scherff is the only one playing close to "stud" level. The pass blocking has taken a big step back since last season and it isn't making the QB transition any easier. 

 

It's sort of a shocker that LG was the weakness last year and they brought back injury prone and struggling Lauvao and he's been injury prone and struggling this year, too.  But I kid.  But yeah I am a bit worried about the Cowboys D line going against this O line.  According to Cooley, Roullier isn't playing well at LG and our center is struggling, too.  Moses seems to be doing decent though.  Just looked up his PFF score and its good.  PFF ranks the Redskins O line as 14th best in the league right now.

 

Edit:  just listened to Cooley if I heard him right Roullier allowed 11 pressures last week?  If so, wow.  Maybe he meant both center and LG.  

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's sort of a shocker that LG was the weakness last year and they brought back injury prone and struggling Lauvao

 

Edit:  just listened to Cooley if I heard him right Roullier allowed 11 pressures last week?  If so, wow.  Maybe he meant both center and LG.  

 

The shocker to me was not adding a G backup. 1 injury to LG = 2 OL changes (Roul to LG, Berg to C) is just a disaster.

 

Ill say it again .. Cards cut Evan Boehm and he signed on a PS and we could have snagged him but we didnt and another team did.

 

Scherff has an MCL injury. Only a matter of time before he is IR'd and then ...... season over imo.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

It really does seem that one explanation could be comfort. The split second difference between thinking about what to do and just reacting via cues and muscle memory can make all the difference in sports. 

 

I hope we see a progression over the next few games because we are pretty married to Smith for another couple years. 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

It really does seem that one explanation could be comfort. The split second difference between thinking about what to do and just reacting via cues and muscle memory can make all the difference in sports. 

 

I hope we see a progression over the next few games because we are pretty married to Smith for another couple years. 

 

I agree with we should be patient sentiment.  But I learned recently that they can get out of the third year if they cut him this Spring.  You'd  have to swallow one year on the cap but other teams have done it like the Cowboys with Romo.  I am not saying they should but there is a way to make it 2 years if need be. 

 

I think it will all have to do with how the season goes.  Goes well even if Alex isn't always hot -- i think he's brought back for both years coming up.  If it doesn't and they clean house, I think there is a shot with a new coaching staff that they suck up the cap hit and reboot.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I agree with we should be patient sentiment.  But I learned recently that they can get out of the third year if they cut him this Spring.  You'd  have to swallow one year on the cap but other teams have done it like the Cowboys with Romo.  I am not saying they should but there is a way to make it 2 years if need be. 

 

I think it will all have to do with how the season goes.  Goes well even if Alex isn't always hot -- i think he's brought back for both years coming up.  If it doesn't and they clean house, I think there is a shot with a new coaching staff that they suck up the cap hit and reboot.

 

Interesting...I'd be shocked to see them cut him unless he regresses. I know how throwing stats out there goes in these QB debates, but he's got a QB rating of over 90, so it would be strange to see them move on from him even if he doesn't improve. 

 

Having said that, I personally would want to see even modest improvement from where he's at now. I think the flip side is that Gruden will begin to understand where he sees Smith excelling and tailor his play-calling as well. 

 

I really expect there to be some improvement just due to comfort by November. 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Interesting...I'd be shocked to see them cut him unless he regresses. I know how throwing stats out there goes in these QB debates, but he's got a QB rating of over 90, so it would be strange to see them move on from him even if he doesn't improve. 

 

Having said that, I personally would want to see even modest improvement from where he's at now. I think the flip side is that Gruden will begin to understand where he sees Smith excelling and tailor his play-calling as well. 

 

I really expect there to be some improvement just due to comfort by November. 

 

Most NFL observers from what I noticed don't take QB ratings seriously as a metric for QBs, mostly go with QBR which factors context.  Even talk shows that have their share of boiler plate QB debates like Bayless show tends to just exclusively talk QBR.   Alex has a mediocre QBR, ranked 21st in the league.   But I am with you in that I'd be surprised if this is his peak ability.  If this is who he is week in and week out that's depressing to me.  But I've heard enough from Jay and Alex himself to get the vibe that neither are satisfied with how things have gone so far.  Lets see how the movie plays out.  It's just chapter 1.   So I agree with that part of your point.

[skinny21]

Yeah, forgetting the economics, we need better than the 21st ranked qb.  So even if he still represents ‘good value’, I’d be cutting him if things don’t improve.  

 

I say this because even if we have an average to pretty good season, it’ll be the defense and ground game carrying us there.  A below average qb is just holding them back, and we might as well look for a guy for the future.  

 

Now, I know the oline has had struggles, and our receiving weapons aren’t all that, so I’m not placing all of the blame on Smith by any means (I wonder what Gruden could do better as well). The fact remains, Smith needs to hit the open (non checkdown) guys a bit more often... and a bit sooner.  While I can’t often tell who’s open on the broadcast, I can see him holding the ball too long as the interior is crashing in.  

I don’t expect to see and don’t need to see very good play from him, I just want to see a few more positive plays per game (and maybe 1 or two fewer negative plays). 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Saw a post by 106.7 The Fan on social media, where they have a clip of Deion Sanders saying he thinks Alex is playing great, exactly what this team needs, etc.  However he doesn’t elaborate on why.  The comments below it are pretty telling from the fan base.

[Skinsinparadise]

25 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Saw a post by 106.7 The Fan on social media, where they have a clip of Deion Sanders saying he thinks Alex is playing great, exactly what this team needs, etc.  However he doesn’t elaborate on why.  The comments below it are pretty telling from the fan base.

 I listened to Doug just now talk about Alex, its clear as heck that he is not satisfied, talking about him still learning, he is missing some things and he will get better.   Doug to me is almost always telling because he does not lie or bs and if you set him up in an interview to gush about a player. he will go to town if he is impressed.  He didn't do it about Alex.

 

You take those comments and Finlay saying there is some concern with coaches. Cooley graded his performance thus far as a C-.  And Cooley is around the team.

 

Not saying any of this for anything but one point which is I gather Alex is on the spot to pick it up in that building in all likelihood.

 

I think he is capable of doing it. Still think potentially he is a good QB. 

[Veryoldschool]

I suppose you are all making valid points but a Dallas victory will render all your complaints moot.  My boney butt is going to scramble back up onto the Alex Smith bandwagon I abandoned after NO if Alex leads them to a victory!  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

17 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

I suppose you are all making valid points but a Dallas victory will render all your complaints moot.  My boney butt is going to scramble back up onto the Alex Smith bandwagon I abandoned after NO if Alex leads them to a victory!  

At this point, I feel like I’m more rooting for Alex Smith to just not wreck the car. It’s evident that we must run the ball successfully, get stops and TOs on D, to win games.  I’m fine with that, basically Alex just needs to be able to keep the chains moving.