Veryoldschool

Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think Paul beats Frank.

 

 

 

I think Paul himself would disagree, but that's a good song also.

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Just now, Veryoldschool said:

 

I think Paul himself would disagree, but that's a good song also.

 

 Sinatra the better singer.  But Paul is a song writer, not so much Frank.  Maybe we got to switch off the Alex-Kirk stuff.  McCartney versus Sinatra?

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10 hours ago, JoggingGod said:

1) Jeremy Maclin’s production went way down when he went to the Chiefs to play with Alex Smith

 

2) Smith is missing wide open recievers left and right.

Maclin is garbage and he was brought to KC to be a #1.  He was never a #1.  Yup figures  you didn't provide any evidence. 

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18 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

I think Paul himself would disagree, but that's a good song also.

 

I like both. Very different kind of music - but both are excellent.

 

Stevie is also up there - this is how I feel about a Redskins win (well maybe not quite but it's a good song!): 

 

 

 

Edited by goskins10
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3 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

Can't we just enjoy a win here?  Must we dwell on the negative?  You sad sacks can complain and moan all want but not me, no sir, not me I am walking on the sunny side this week with a little help from Frank:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEsgLzgH_po

How about this one, it fits the situation. ?

 

 

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3 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I acknowledged that in my post. Nothing is perfect because everything has 1,000 variable and there's no control. I didn't mean for this to turn into a prediction...my point was simply this: 

 

A QB (Cousins) who ultimately turned out to be very productive under Gruden had some struggles in the first 5-6 games in this offense. I hope that our current QB (Smith) who is also struggling in his first 5-6 games has a similar progression to become comparably productive. 

 

That's it. 

Here's the key difference that ruins the comparison:

 

Through Cousins' first 5 games, here is the stat line if we exclude the 2nd half of the Giants and Cardinals games:

 

97/153 (63%) for 1,304 yards (8.5 y/a), 9 TDs, 1 INT, 5 sacks, 8.8 ANY/A

 

If he were to play all 16 games at the same level of proficiency as he displayed in 16 of those first 20 quarters, here's what his stat line would have looked like:

 

388/612 (63%) for 5,216 yards (8.5 y/a), 36 TDs, 4 INTs, 20 sacks, 8.8 ANY/A

 

In other words, excluding his two meltdowns, Cousins was on pace to have an MVP caliber season.

 

Smith has looked GOOD for 4 quarters across his first 20. Cousins looked BAD for 4 quarter across his first 20. It seems more likely that the guy who is playing well can find a way to eliminate his mistakes, than the guy who is playing timidly to start letting it rip.

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I was catching up with Finlay on Chad Dukes.  Finlay said there are plays there that he isn't making, to quote Finlay, he's been told that "the coaches want more out of Alex".  He talked about the happy feet as well. 

 

Having said that, I do like the lack of turnovers, that's good.  Hopefully the rest of it comes soon. ?

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 Sinatra the better singer.  But Paul is a song writer, not so much Frank.  Maybe we got to switch off the Alex-Kirk stuff.  McCartney versus Sinatra?

 

I don't know if Sinatra wrote any songs but yes he sang better than Paul or anyone else.

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10 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

I don't know if Sinatra wrote any songs but yes he sang better than Paul or anyone else.

 

Just googled it, looks like he co-wrote 2 but otherwise he didn't write any.  I am a bit biased though I am a McCartney-Beatle freak.   

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Cooley's Offensive Grades vs Carolina

 

Cooley's General Thoughts:

We show no ability to make big plays downfield.

 

Most of the rushing yards came on trap plays, not very good at the zone blocking. AP runs well out of the gun.

 

The Offensive line is getting killed by stunts, 15+ pressures from stunts, teams are specifically using the 3 Tech to push hard up the field and then the DE comes right off behind him and we can't push the 3-Tech to the tackle and have the guard slide back down to the underneath defender, same thing happened vs Indy and throughout the year so far, Cooley didn't really elaborate on if he thought we could fix it, he said if it keeps happening then maybe its a problem and left it at that. 

 

Grades:

A Smith - 69 - Positives - TD to VD was nice, he pumped to Reed and it moved the safety and 2 of the LB's, Cooley said he missed the same throw to Crowder the previous week. Couple good balls to Reed. Good job on the TD to P Rich.

Negatives - He's passing up open WR's, also late on throws. Taking the sack on the 3rd down at the 41 yd line at the end of the 2nd half was bad, throw the check down and take the 4 or 5 yards, don't take yourself out of FG range.
On the next drive with 56 sec left in the 1st half he takes the intentional grounding, Cooley thought it was grounding, Carolina was playing a soft D and P Rich was underneath wide open, its a simple pass to make. 
With 31 sec left in the half it was 3rd down and 16, Bibbs wide open and could have had a 15 yard gain. Made a throw he should have never made.

Alex needs to slide laterally in the pocket instead of vertically, he's moving into the pressure too often by running forward into traffic.

3 main issues are Poor protection, Alex uncomfortable in the pocket, Alex not on the same page with the WR's.

Peterson - 88 - No negative yard carries and could have had 5 per Cooley. Missed a pass pro 1 time. Best player on the field on offense.
Trent - 66 - Not his best game, pretty good in the passing game, had the holding call and gave up 3 pressures. Gave up a sack, got stunted to his backside one time.
Chase - 55 - He's a very good center but not a good guard, he cannot keep his helmet up when he's blocking so he gets killed on stunts, gave up 11 pressures/sacks.
Bergstrom - 58 - Slow with his feet, bad hips, does sustain some blocks but he doesn't have the athleticism to be a starting center.
Scherff - 84 - Nearly perfect in pass pro, at times he's destroying people in the run game, punked Luke Kuechly badly on one play.
Moses - 72 - Only one holding call but could have had 3, holds a lot in the run game, misses with his hands and grabs their back. He got bulled a couple times, he doesn't look right, the technique is poor, late to backside cutoffs.
Reed - 79 - He got more reps this week, made some plays. He's too busy on his choice routes, needs to just run the route, he's making it easier on the defenders by running the choice route the way he does.
VD - 76 - blocking was meh
Sprinkle - 59 - He had 21 plays, not so good, letting the edge free and not sustaining on blocks.
P Rich - 60 - Struggling to get off press coverage, not great at run blocking, dropped the hitch route.
Doctson - 78 - Not really anything too negative or positive, small sample size. 6 targets and 3 catches, blocked well, can block when he wants to. With his speed, he's not threatening anyone deep.
Floyd - No Grade, not enough reps to grade.
Quick - No Grade - 2 catches for two 1st downs, just not enough of a sample size.
Bibbs - 64 - huge dropoff in blocking between him and CT.
Harris - 60 - not an impact, some blocking issues.

Edited by JSSkinz
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Callahan has to go after the season..This OL cannot pick up a stunt to save their lives.

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11 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I'm hoping that what we are seeing in Smith during the first half of 2018 is the equivalent to what we saw in Cousins during 2014 and early-2015. 

 

For each, that was "year 1" with Gruden's system and both seem a little frazzled, uncomfortable, and seem to be leaving plays on the field. Cousins cut it loose more often which excuses his high interception totals but also explains his higher passing yards and TDs. 

 

11 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

My primary point is that I hope this is just the learning curve aspect of Jay's system and that we start to see him understand where to go more instinctively when things break down around him. I'm going to stick with that until we get a few more games into the season! 

I'm so glad you wrote this. This is a point I was making in the gameday thread. I know Smith hasn't looked all pro yet, but I think it's too early to call for refunds on him as a qb for us. 

 

I think of it like driving a car. I figure learning a new offense is like driving in a new city. You haven't suddenly forgotten how to drive but you are unaware of how drivers in this new city are, how traffic flows, what the main roads are, what the best routes are to get from point s to point t, etc. Add to that possibly the idea of driving a new car in a new city, and say that new city has dangerous bridges like the Road to Hana in Maui, HI and its natural to look like a "new driver" as you process this new information. 

 

I'm thinking of two sides of this. On one hand, people like the beat reporters were telling us that this would happen, and were asking Jay kinda pointed questions like, not asking will it take time for Alex to adjust, but how long will it take. But the other side was Jay's responses where he said it wouldn't take Alex any time. I think that was probably just coach speak mixed with his own hopes. 

 

The thing is that Jay and Alex have only been in a relationship for about 9 months. I remember when i had only known my wife for 9 months, or pervious girlfriends who I knew for 9 months. There's still a lot to learn. Heck, I'm on this board and everyday there are new people on here that I've got to question "what's their style", "are they combative", "can they take a joke", "do they back stuff up" and they're have been times when I thought I knew a poster, only to be surprised to see them behave "out of character" 

 

I hope I'm not over - simplifying this, but the key thing is that i think people are focusing on one part of Alex's game and saying that he should have no problem with his first 6 games, but I don't think it's that simple. And to go a step further, what he's doing is learning but minimizing his costly mistakes. There was a post about our average drives and its similar to what I posted after the Indy game, we just had a lot of drives stall at the OPP 40ish yard line, but we were moving the ball. 

 

I think that just like Kirk's first full year as the starter, we're likely to see a very exciting second half of the season as Alex gets more comfortable here. 

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Alex is fine when the down/distance is manageable, so we have to run effectively on early downs. We're trying to cause misdirection with the fakes to the motion receivers and the read option. 

 

I like what we're trying to do on offense. The problem though is when we're in 3rd and 8+ and nobody is buying play action, it seems like we're kind of helpless in a straight drop back situation. Some of the throws/reads by Smith in those situations have been so bad that it doesn't seem like something fixable with more reps or time in the offense. 

 

I think we'll have more games this year where we run well, and Smith will look solid in those games. We're also going to have more games where we're down early and will see that we have essentially zero chance of coming back with this QB. 

 

In theory things are good, we're in first place in the division and beat 2 solid teams in Carolina and Green Bay. But I think the apathy is because people are seeing that we have serious issues offensively. 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, New World Portis said:

Skins would be a SB contender easy with Cousins at the helm. They already have a good defense.

 

 

 

Lol the year he leaves they finally have a semi competent defense. Go figure. 

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Looking at his QB rating progression with the Chiefs, in his 5 years there, his rating literally increased every year with the exception of 2016 which was a very slight down year for him. Just another indication that Smith gets finer with age. That's expected in a good QB's early years, but for it to happen even in his later years, like Smith's career ? I think that's very noteworthy.

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11 hours ago, skinfan2k said:

Maclin is garbage and he was brought to KC to be a #1.  He was never a #1.  Yup figures  you didn't provide any evidence. 

 

Take a look at Crabtree's numbers with Smith and then with Kapernick.

 

Smith makes receivers worse. He also makes offensive lines look worse. It's a fact.

Edited by New World Portis

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15 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I acknowledged that in my post. Nothing is perfect because everything has 1,000 variable and there's no control. I didn't mean for this to turn into a prediction...my point was simply this: 

 

A QB (Cousins) who ultimately turned out to be very productive under Gruden had some struggles in the first 5-6 games in this offense. I hope that our current QB (Smith) who is also struggling in his first 5-6 games has a similar progression to become comparably productive. 

 

That's it. 

 

I'm not arguing your point, I'm just making the argument that no matter what happens this year with Smith (assuming health for the remainder of the year), he already has the benefit of 2 things Cousins never had: a run game and a somewhat competent defense.  

Edited by DJHJR86
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15 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

A. He has a little Eli in him in the pocket.  You get to him early and he plays scared a little bit from then on.  He feels the pressure before its there. It effects his footwork and he seems to be hesitant to go down the field because he wants to get rid of the ball. 

 

B. I know he has the reputation for checking down.  But I never thought it would be this blatant.

 

C.  He hasn't really run much.  I always thought his legs was part of what made him dangerous when he was at his best.

 

To your points:

A. I've always thought that Eli is what we were getting minus the interceptions but with more checkdowns.  Pretty "meh" QB for his entire career but still thought by many people to be a top 10-12 QB.  I think the same thing with Alex.


B. I knew it was going to be bad.  For one we don't have the separation that KC's receivers had, and two, this is what he's done his entire career outside of last year.

 

C. He's only ran for over 200 yards 4 times in his career.  For comparison, Tyrod Taylor has done it 3 times.  And Mariota is most likely to do it this year for the 4th time.  I think this was massively overstated by the local media guys as one of his strengths.  

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8 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

I'm so glad you wrote this. This is a point I was making in the gameday thread. I know Smith hasn't looked all pro yet, but I think it's too early to call for refunds on him as a qb for us. 

 

 

Agree with this point.

 

8 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

I think of it like driving a car. I figure learning a new offense is like driving in a new city. You haven't suddenly forgotten how to drive but you are unaware of how drivers in this new city are, how traffic flows, what the main roads are, what the best routes are to get from point s to point t, etc. Add to that possibly the idea of driving a new car in a new city, and say that new city has dangerous bridges like the Road to Hana in Maui, HI and its natural to look like a "new driver" as you process this new information. 

 

 

Agree with this point too, I've been on the Road to Hana so I can relate. Even got a short for making it through. ?

 

8 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

and were asking Jay kinda pointed questions like, not asking will it take time for Alex to adjust, but how long will it take. But the other side was Jay's responses where he said it wouldn't take Alex any time. I think that was probably just coach speak mixed with his own hopes. 

 

 

I think the hype Alex had didn't serve him well.  I said so on threads this off season.  I took a little flak for it too -- for liking but not loving Alex.  I thought some of the praise was over the top considering what other people who covered Alex said about him which tempered a lot of that if people bought in.  Some in recent weeks have suggested that over the top praise never happened -- but I recall it well. Some on Alex threads. Plenty on twitter.  Some of it was from coaching-FO -- about how smart Alex is, he can do everything.  He's ballsy in practice and will throw 50-50 balls to Doctson that Kirk didn't have the guts to do.  On and on.   All of that heightened expectations I think for a quick start. Also Alex is known for starting hot.  

 

8 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

The thing is that Jay and Alex have only been in a relationship for about 9 months. I remember when i had only known my wife for 9 months, or pervious girlfriends who I knew for 9 months.

 

Kirk is a sensitive subject on this thread but I don't think it helps that Kirk actually is off to a relatively hot start in Minny coupled with unexpected challenges doing so.  Yeah I know some give him a hard time no matter what he does -- hey they lost 2 games, that's on him or whatever.  I don't buy for a second that those same people wouldn't be fawning all over Alex if he was putting up numbers anywhere near Kirk let alone doing so with a leaky O line and no running game.   So why does Alex need more time than Kirk?  Isn't Kirk the dude known for his slow starts not Alex?  Right now, its the reverse.  I even said on this thread in the off season, it wouldn't surprise me if both Alex and Kirk started slow considered them learning new offenses.  And for those thinking hey Kirk homers would say this.  No, this is a national story, even guys like Casserly who thought Alex might be an upgrade has said he's watched Kirk and he's been lights out and then talked about Alex's struggles. 

 

8 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

I hope I'm not over - simplifying this, but the key thing is that i think people are focusing on one part of Alex's game and saying that he should have no problem with his first 6 games, but I don't think it's that simple. And to go a step further, what he's doing is learning but minimizing his costly mistakes. There was a post about our average drives and its similar to what I posted after the Indy game, we just had a lot of drives stall at the OPP 40ish yard line, but we were moving the ball. 

 

I think that just like Kirk's first full year as the starter, we're likely to see a very exciting second half of the season as Alex gets more comfortable here. 

 

For me, its not about Alex's slow start.  But how he comes off as a QB.  Ben Standig just on 980 summed it up well for me. He said he saw in training camp that he held the ball too much.  He didn't like to throw into tight windows.  In that manner, he goes he is frustrating to watch. And he goes, at his age, there isn't really upside, he is what he is at this point in his career.  When I started slowing down the tape and posting some clips, you can see it.  It's not that receivers aren't getting open or he doesn't know where to go -- he's actually at times looking right at open receivers but doesn't have the guts for whatever reason to throw it to them.  That's what bothers me.  Can Jay coach him up to let it fly?  Maybe.  That's what am hoping for. 

 

Its interesting to me that I don't see any beat guys defending Alex.  Heck even the ones who typically tell fans to slow down criticism like Hoffman and Finlay are beating Alex up.   And the only reason why to me that's relevant is if they often take their cues from the coaches - little doubt the coaches are disappointed in his start, Finlay alluded to it yesterday.  The exception being Lake Lewis who from what I recall led the dance of how much better Alex was from Kirk based in his camp observation, so he's sticking to his guns.  And some of the WP guys who are saying hey that's who Alex is, it might not be sexy but its great that he doesn't turn the ball over. 

 

Having said all that, I can be sold that a conservative QB who doesn't turn the ball over can be a winning formula.  Trent Dilfer style when the Ravens won the Superbowl.  But the Ravens had a killer defense.  If the idea is Adrian Peterson is his old self and the defense will dominate -- then a QB who doesn't per se light the world on fire but also doesn't screw it up by turning the ball over can be a winning formula -- I see some logic to that. 

 

And also plenty of logic to your points that QBs become more comfortable over time.  So I got some hope that the best is coming.  But the one interesting variable to this to me is a point that Benoit likes to stick with which is Alex's style doesn't fit what Jay likes to do.  Taking that point in another direction, we've been hearing for years how much Jay likes Colt.  Colt for his faults (and he has plenty of them especially the turnovers) pays with moxie.  So if this continues over the season, I wonder if that's in play.  it sounds crazy now.  But at the start of McNabb's first year if someone told us at this point in this season, Shanny would want to start Rex at the end of the year, that would have sounded crazy and premature, too. 

 

Hopefully that doesn't happen.  And the dude kicks it up.  I wouldn't say I am optimistic on that front or pessimistic.  I don't know.  Will see. 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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2 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

I'm not arguing your point, I'm just making the argument that no matter what happens this year with Smith (assuming health for the remainder of the year), he already has the benefit of 2 things Cousins never had: a run game and a somewhat competent defense.  

 

You should checkout all of last years victories. It will blow your mind. Seriously.

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4 minutes ago, Reaper Skins said:

 

 

I watched it this morning, very entertaining, especially the Halloween costumes.    While I have some concerns about him as a player -- tough not to root for him as a guy.   Really cool guy.   Hopefully, the 2017 version of Alex is coming. 

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Ya know..Alex has had 5 games of LIVE Action to acclimate to this team. No preseason at all (that's 4 games BTW). Man..I'd HATE to work as an employee of some of you guys...

 

NEWS FLASH..Kurt did not want to play for the Skins.

 

This Cowboys game is a statement game for the team not just Jay and Alex. The NO game may have been a blessing in disguise to embarrass these guys into not letting that happen again. The Boys laid 40 on the Jags and they saw that..they can imagine what will be said about them if ANYTHING like that happens at home

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13 hours ago, ncr2h said:

Here's the key difference that ruins the comparison:

 

Through Cousins' first 5 games, here is the stat line if we exclude the 2nd half of the Giants and Cardinals games:

 

97/153 (63%) for 1,304 yards (8.5 y/a), 9 TDs, 1 INT, 5 sacks, 8.8 ANY/A

 

If he were to play all 16 games at the same level of proficiency as he displayed in 16 of those first 20 quarters, here's what his stat line would have looked like:

 

388/612 (63%) for 5,216 yards (8.5 y/a), 36 TDs, 4 INTs, 20 sacks, 8.8 ANY/A

 

In other words, excluding his two meltdowns, Cousins was on pace to have an MVP caliber season.

 

Smith has looked GOOD for 4 quarters across his first 20. Cousins looked BAD for 4 quarter across his first 20. It seems more likely that the guy who is playing well can find a way to eliminate his mistakes, than the guy who is playing timidly to start letting it rip.

 

OK, haha, but that's where things start to get dicey. I'm trying to avoid slicing and dicing or selectively removing actual events. 

 

Here's the point, I'm not contending that Smith will reach Cousins' levels in this offense. That's neither more belief nor my argument. I'm simply HOPING that he experiences the same improvement that Cousins did after his first 5-6 games in the system. 

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