Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[NoCalMike]

You don't have to watch very much of any Chiefs game to quickly realize the difference in play making ability Alex Smith had at his disposal last year in Kansas City.

 

It doesn't make Smith more or less of a QB now, because it's not like he was ever a "bad QB" in Kansas City, but being able to throw a ball to Tyreke Hill in the middle of the field and watch him beat defenders to the sideline, turn upfield, and take it all the way to the house is something he certainly does not have with this offense.

 

Whatever critiques we all have of Smith, while valid, have to be equally met with the fact that his supporting cast also downgraded significantly when he became Washington's starting QB.

 

That should be put at the feet of the front office.  They all have game film, they are smart football guys.  As soon as the trade for Smith happened, it was their job to bring in playmakers.  Instead the narrative was "Doctson is taking steps"

[rick7423]

2 hours ago, Morneblade said:

This is exactly who he is. As you said, his QBR are similar to KC, the uptick you saw was due to Reid and Hill, not Smith. I think the only improvements we see is that he is more accurate. Because even yesterday he was terrible. He was high, behind and was not getting many passes on this targets. He's usually better than that. Otherwise..................he had one more pass over 10 yards than he had behind the LOS yesterday. That is Alex Smith.

 

KC QBR: 70.2, AS QBR: 49.9. Not really that close

 

Really? Your next statement contradicts this to a high degree. He has not been what he was sold to be by a huge margin.

 

If this trend continues, we are looking at a 6-10 season at best. Alex might be a good leader, but he sure as hell cannot lead when on the field. Actions are more important than words, and his ability to be "That Guy" is proving false.

[rick7423]

53 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

You don't have to watch very much of any Chiefs game to quickly realize the difference in play making ability Alex Smith had at his disposal last year in Kansas City.

 

It doesn't make Smith more or less of a QB now, because it's not like he was ever a "bad QB" in Kansas City, but being able to throw a ball to Tyreke Hill in the middle of the field and watch him beat defenders to the sideline, turn upfield, and take it all the way to the house is something he certainly does not have with this offense.

 

Whatever critiques we all have of Smith, while valid, have to be equally met with the fact that his supporting cast also downgraded significantly when he became Washington's starting QB.

 

That should be put at the feet of the front office.  They all have game film, they are smart football guys.  As soon as the trade for Smith happened, it was their job to bring in playmakers.  Instead the narrative was "Doctson is taking steps"

Why should we give him the benefit of the doubt here? He was brought in to make this team a winner. We were sold a bill of goods that they knew was false.

 

 

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

I just dont understand this Alex Smith debate.

 

I expected him to be a serviceable run your playbook QB. Through 5 games, hes basically that with room and time to improve.

 

If anybody is disappointed he's not a top 10 QB .. blame yourself.

 

Alex Smith is probably the 16-20th best QB in the league. But that is something. That is competent QB play. Hes not a scrub and you wont find replaceable production from an Osweiller or McCoy or T Taylor or any other premier backup QB.

 

Having an Alex Smith allows you the chance to compete if you have a competent team. We do have a competent team. Whether we go 6-10 to 10-6 is up for grabs.

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

1 minute ago, rick7423 said:

Why should we give him the benefit of the doubt here? He was brought in to make this team a winner. We were sold a bill of goods that they knew was false.

 

 

 

Do you think Gruden or Allen or Larry Michael is going to publicly say the Skins screwed up the KC thing and bringing in Alex Smith was a downgrade? Im confused people didnt realize that an NFL team would put a positive spin on things.

 

You honestly took what Bruce or Jay said as 100% truth and not coach speak? You expected them to admit Alex Smith wont win us a championship? Every coach and FO will say "our goal is to win a Superbowl and we think (insert QB name) gives us a chance to do that".

 

If Colt McCoy was the starter, Jay would say "I have full faith and confidence that Colt can lead this team to victory".

 

You talk up your starting QB .. especially in the offseason when you are selling tickets and hope that this year will be different.

 

I expected Alex to be a serviceable QB and thats what we got.

 

Now I understand it .. yes, if you thought this team was going to be a SB winner or that AS > KC based on what the FO said in the offseason ... yes I understand your disappointment.

 

 

 

[Morneblade]

10 minutes ago, rick7423 said:

 

KC QBR: 70.2, AS QBR: 49.9. Not really that close

 

Really? Your next statement contradicts this to a high degree. He has not been what he was sold to be by a huge margin.

 

If this trend continues, we are looking at a 6-10 season at best. Alex might be a good leader, but he sure as hell cannot lead when on the field. Actions are more important than words, and his ability to be "That Guy" is proving false.

 

Ok, this is a first for me, being called a Alex apologizer. I'm going to book mark this post.

 

First, I agree, he is not what he was sold as. But he is exactly what he was in KC, a game manager. For some odd reason, people looked to his 2017 campaign and though that this was the real Alex Smith. That Andy Reid.......considered one of the best offensive minds in the game, was actually holding Alex back.

 

I laughed at this, because I knew that he's just a game manager, a pretty good one but still just a game manager. But he isn't going to win a shoot out, and he isn't going to bring you back. He is what he is. This team is going to go through AP and it's Defense if it's going to have any success.

[rick7423]

15 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

 

Do you think Gruden or Allen or Larry Michael is going to publicly say the Skins screwed up the KC thing and bringing in Alex Smith was a downgrade? Im confused people didnt realize that an NFL team would put a positive spin on things.

 

You honestly took what Bruce or Jay said as 100% truth and not coach speak? You expected them to admit Alex Smith wont win us a championship? Every coach and FO will say "our goal is to win a Superbowl and we think (insert QB name) gives us a chance to do that".

 

If Colt McCoy was the starter, Jay would say "I have full faith and confidence that Colt can lead this team to victory".

 

You talk up your starting QB .. especially in the offseason when you are selling tickets and hope that this year will be different.

 

I expected Alex to be a serviceable QB and thats what we got.

 

Now I understand it .. yes, if you thought this team was going to be a SB winner or that AS > KC based on what the FO said in the offseason ... yes I understand your disappointment.

 

 

 

Not at all. But, he is NOT what was advertised, not even close. As for being a serviceable QB, well, again, not really close, yet. I hope he learns and gets better, but don't hold your breath.

 

This FO has been fooled again by Ried. We have the 49ers version of QB, not what was on the field last year. Stop making excuses for this guy.

18 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Ok, this is a first for me, being called a Alex apologizer. I'm going to book mark this post.

 

First, I agree, he is not what he was sold as. But he is exactly what he was in KC, a game manager. For some odd reason, people looked to his 2017 campaign and though that this was the real Alex Smith. That Andy Reid.......considered one of the best offensive minds in the game, was actually holding Alex back.

 

I laughed at this, because I knew that he's just a game manager, a pretty good one but still just a game manager. But he isn't going to win a shoot out, and he isn't going to bring you back. He is what he is. This team is going to go through AP and it's Defense if it's going to have any success.

Never said you were an apologizer, if you took it that way, sorry.

As for a game manager, maybe, but again, I don't see it.

[HardcoreZorn]

20 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Ok, this is a first for me, being called a Alex apologizer. I'm going to book mark this post.

 

First, I agree, he is not what he was sold as. But he is exactly what he was in KC, a game manager. For some odd reason, people looked to his 2017 campaign and though that this was the real Alex Smith. That Andy Reid.......considered one of the best offensive minds in the game, was actually holding Alex back.

 

I laughed at this, because I knew that he's just a game manager, a pretty good one but still just a game manager. But he isn't going to win a shoot out, and he isn't going to bring you back. He is what he is. This team is going to go through AP and it's Defense if it's going to have any success.

The almighty Kirk has 7 4th Quarter comebacks to Alex's 5 since 2015. You are borderline obsessive trying to prove this point that Alex is who he is through 5 games with us. I just don't understand how after a win in which we are now 3-2 and leading the division that your biggest focus is running around talking Alex vs Kirk themes in every thread, even the day after game thread. He's gone. Follow him to Minnesota where he continues to throw for massive amounts of yards and fumble every other play.

[Morneblade]

1 minute ago, HardcoreZorn said:

The almighty Kirk has 7 4th Quarter comebacks to Alex's 5 since 2015. You are borderline obsessive trying to prove this point that Alex is who he is through 5 games with us. I just don't understand how after a win in which we are now 3-2 and leading the division that your biggest focus is running around talking Alex vs Kirk themes in every thread, even the day after game thread. He's gone. Follow him to Minnesota where he continues to throw for massive amounts of yards and fumble every other play.

 

Bruce, is that you?

 

Just admit that you love Bruce Allen and think everything he does is perfect and I'll consider it. Until then, I'll post how I please.

 

Oh, don't forget on how I'm shouting about how damn good AP is. Oops, Doug forgot to tell you about bringing him in, Brucey. Ya can't take credit for that.

[rick7423]

3 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

The almighty Kirk has 7 4th Quarter comebacks to Alex's 5 since 2015. You are borderline obsessive trying to prove this point that Alex is who he is through 5 games with us. I just don't understand how after a win in which we are now 3-2 and leading the division that your biggest focus is running around talking Alex vs Kirk themes in every thread, even the day after game thread. He's gone. Follow him to Minnesota where he continues to throw for massive amounts of yards and fumble every other play.

I do, and I follow him every game and just cry knowing that we had him and let him go.

 

I talk to a lot of fans at the games, and almost every one states that this team is just stupid in letting him get away.

 

I would bet that one reason the stadium is so empty is that the fans have given up on believing the BS from this organization and have lost all faith in it.

[NoCalMike]

1 minute ago, rick7423 said:

 

I would bet that one reason the stadium is so empty is that the fans have given up on believing the BS from this organization and have lost all faith in it.

 

The team is 3-2.  Pretty much the same team, in the same spot, performing very similar to how they did before. The Kirk vs. Alex debate right now is really missing the bigger point, which is that on a franchise level, mediocrity has prevailed and continues to prevail, regardless of who is under center. 

[HardcoreZorn]

7 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Bruce, is that you?

 

Just admit that you love Bruce Allen and think everything he does is perfect and I'll consider it. Until then, I'll post how I please.

 

Oh, don't forget on how I'm shouting about how damn good AP is. Oops, Doug forgot to tell you about bringing him in, Brucey. Ya can't take credit for that.

LOL you are a keyboard warrior if I've ever seen one. I just like to look out for the health of my fellow redskins brethren and it simply cannot be healthy to obsess over losing Kirk as much as you do.

[Morneblade]

1 minute ago, HardcoreZorn said:

LOL you are a keyboard warrior if I've ever seen one. I just like to look out for the health of my fellow redskins brethren and it simply cannot be healthy to obsess over losing Kirk as much as you do.

 

Bruce, the only thing you care about is looking good. You certainly don't care about the fans. I can call you Bruce right? Or is it still Mr. Allen?

 

Brucey it is then.

 

And Brucey, I'm doing just fine. I love me some AP! Sorry, Doug didn't tell you about it, but he probably figured you'd screw that up too.

[NickyJ]

I know people took losing Kirk hard, but hallucinating that Bruce Allen is talking to them on ES takes it to a new level lol. If I ever get that far gone, I'll have to put myself out to pasture.

[Temper11]

10 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

The team is 3-2.  Pretty much the same team, in the same spot, performing very similar to how they did before. The Kirk vs. Alex debate right now is really missing the bigger point, which is that on a franchise level, mediocrity has prevailed and continues to prevail, regardless of who is under center. 

 

There are 8 teams out there with a better record than the Redskins.  8 out of 32.  There is a lot of mediocrity out there.  Smith is better than he has shown.  Is he good enough  to make this fanbase happy?  No idea.  Is he better or worse than KC - that debate is not for me.  What I do know is that he is better than what he has shown the last few games.  I think the first quarters of the 1st and 3rd games are much more realistic to what Smith is.  He wasn't dropping huge bombs down the field in those quarters, he was working what the D gave him and hitting the passes that he should hit - the receivers were catching the passes they should catch and the the formula was successful.  That's the Smith I think skins should expect.  Not a gunslinger, not carry the whole team... just solid, consistent, steady.  He hasn't been that the last two games.  Seems off balance for some reason - unsure of his receivers.  Like he wants to throw it and then pulls it back down.  Saw it a ton - don't really know why or where it's coming from.  

 

Anyway, not saying you're going to love his play, but these last two games are not what he is.  Carry on everyone. 

[NoCalMike]

15 minutes ago, Temper11 said:

Anyway, not saying you're going to love his play, but these last two games are not what he is.  Carry on everyone. 

 

The point I am trying to make is that if we zoom out on our lens, from Alex Smith, to the entire team.  What we will see, IMO, is that it is largely the same results.  

 

Even the the way the team goes up big and then slowly fades, meandering around, so the opponent gets back into the game.  That is not something new.

 

The fact that the debate has devolved into "which QB got better results with mediocrity around them" should be the tip off that the team overall needs to get a lot better before fans can reasonably expect anything in the long run to change.  

 

 

[Veryoldschool]

A victory is to be savored and Alex deserves credit, well done!

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I will say that yesterday's game (which was a tighter version of the Arizona and Green Bay games) reminded me an awful lot of Alex's last game in Kansas City. The Chiefs blitzed the Titans and took a large halftime lead only to essentially go into a shell in the second half and sputter. They ultimately lost and we were 16 yards away from falling 24-23. Here's how sure I was that we were going to lose...on second-and-five when Newton overthrew McCaffrey in the end zone I was actually excited to see that they were taking shots to score from there. I figured they'd either score with 40ish seconds left or fail...but one more first down and we wouldn't have had any time left. 

 

OK, I veered off topic...until the final 30 seconds, that game looked just like Smith's loss in last year's playoffs. We've now seen something similar 3 times in 5 games (with the other two games actually being worse because we didn't build any lead at all). So, I really hope to see something break this trend ASAP. 

[Skinsinparadise]

33 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

The fact that the debate has devolved into "which QB got better results with mediocrity around them" should be the tip off that the team overall needs to get a lot better before fans can reasonably expect anything in the long run to change.  

 

 

 

I have a few different competing thoughts on this.

 

A.  I think this defense and running game now is >>>> 2017 season.  As it should be.  Peterson >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert Kelley.  And the defense is upgraded and healthy.  So i think its apples to oranges to compare.

 

B. I get wanting to enjoy a win.  i am in that camp.  I am going to enjoy the week heading to the Dallas game.

 

C.  Alex to me has been underwhelming.  Disappointing as to my expectations. Not awful, though.  So so.

 

D.  It's early the dude might take off, yet.  And I don't care if they end up with an 11-5 record or something unexpected if Alex is part of that even if I am not blown away by the dude.  i think the book on him and the team for that matter is still open.  Big game coming up.   

 

 

[wit33]

Smith will continue to have happy feet if first or second read isn’t available, that’s not changing. Fortunately his legs help mitigate this weakness greatly. So critical for Jay and Alex to get on same page soon with passing game. The balance of a good to great running, average passing, and Alex’s legs can lead to good year. 

[Temper11]

1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

 

The point I am trying to make is that if we zoom out on our lens, from Alex Smith, to the entire team.  What we will see, IMO, is that it is largely the same results.  

 

Even the the way the team goes up big and then slowly fades, meandering around, so the opponent gets back into the game.  That is not something new.

 

The fact that the debate has devolved into "which QB got better results with mediocrity around them" should be the tip off that the team overall needs to get a lot better before fans can reasonably expect anything in the long run to change. 

 

Just to clarify... when I used "you're" I meant the collective "you" - as in redskins fan as a whole. 

[bird_1972]

3 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

You don't have to watch very much of any Chiefs game to quickly realize the difference in play making ability Alex Smith had at his disposal last year in Kansas City.

 

It doesn't make Smith more or less of a QB now, because it's not like he was ever a "bad QB" in Kansas City, but being able to throw a ball to Tyreke Hill in the middle of the field and watch him beat defenders to the sideline, turn upfield, and take it all the way to the house is something he certainly does not have with this offense.

 

Whatever critiques we all have of Smith, while valid, have to be equally met with the fact that his supporting cast also downgraded significantly when he became Washington's starting QB.

 

That should be put at the feet of the front office.  They all have game film, they are smart football guys.  As soon as the trade for Smith happened, it was their job to bring in playmakers.  Instead the narrative was "Doctson is taking steps"

 

And....this is why I hope we have a new GM and coaching staff next year. What I've seen in the offseason coupled with the poor preparation, personnel decision making, and play calling all do not justify having any of them employed by this team at end of year. Keep the bright young stars in the scouting dept and start from scratch.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Personally, the last thing I want to do is go on a coaching search for a guy saddled with having to start Smith.  Not that it’s impossible for a new coach to get anything out of him or more than what Jay can, but the clock is ticking.  I’d rather reset with an entirely new legitimate FO structure, that selects the head coach, of whom gets to draft his own QB.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

4 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Personally, the last thing I want to do is go on a coaching search for a guy saddled with having to start Smith.  Not that it’s impossible for a new coach to get anything out of him or more than what Jay can, but the clock is ticking.  I’d rather reset with an entirely new legitimate FO structure, that selects the head coach, of whom gets to draft his own QB.

 

Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. We just saw this same guy have his best season with a different coach. I think you could re-boot the front office and coaches, let them all decide on a QB of the future, and keep Smith around to start for a year (just as he did while Mahomes sat last year). The team could compete in that scenario. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. We just saw this same guy have his best season with a different coach. I think you could re-boot the front office and coaches, let them all decide on a QB of the future, and keep Smith around to start for a year (just as he did while Mahomes sat last year). The team could compete in that scenario. 

While they can cut Smith after next season, there is still a lot of dead money to deal with.  I think Alex has to start for 2 more seasons, no matter what.  I’d rather just stick it out through 2019 with Gruden and everyone else, see what happens.  When it doesn’t happen, clean house and start building the right way.