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Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum


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1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I remember people crying about RG3 not working out setting this team back for years.  Well, that didn't turn out to be true.  Thankfully the Shannys knew what they were dealing with in RG3, which was a one trick pony and they knew how to disguise his weaknesses.  They knew that they'd need a real deal QB and drafted Kirk.  Good thing they did.

 

Not locking up Kirk and replacing him with a guy like this with a contract like this will set the team back for years.  RG3 not working out wasn't a big deal.  Screwing the pooch on the Kirk situation will be.  

But, but , Kirk never took us to the playoffs...... And the Redskins had such amazing teams and kirk failed & kirk couldn't win the big game an but and but kirk and but....hE DiDn'T DeSeRRVe Milions and but Kirk Sucks & But 

 

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Why does it feel like so many of his passes are getting batted down at the line? Dont have stats or examples to back it up, but it just seems to happen too much for a guy who is 6'4''. I know the pass will most likely be incomplete anyway, but still. 

 

On the flipside, why doesnt Kerrigan knock down as many passes as he used to? I always thought that was a strong part of his game. Now I forget he's even on the team most of the time. 

 

Not that it matters. None of this matters.

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6 minutes ago, Wingsuit said:

On the flipside, why doesnt Kerrigan knock down as many passes as he used to? I always thought that was a strong part of his game. Now I forget he's even on the team most of the time

Because he's got an offensive lineman's arm around his shoulders and neck every play which hinders his ability to lift his arms.  However the referees never seem to see this or care about it.

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10 minutes ago, Wingsuit said:

 

 

On the flipside, why doesnt Kerrigan knock down as many passes as he used to? I always thought that was a strong part of his game. Now I forget he's even on the team most of the time. 

 

Because he is being held? 

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Though I'll double down that the season is young.  The verdict isn't in, yet. Lets see what happens next.  Sometimes being humiliated (this directed to the whole team not Alex) is a wake up call.  Will see.  I hope so. As for Alex being a let it fly dude.  I am open to that too.  Small sample.  But he certainly looks like what his rep has been thus far on that front. 

 

 

 

Yep. Agree with pretty much everything you said in this post (not just the bit quoted).

 

It IS a small sample but last night's game was horrible. Every QB can have an off night and Smith missed some throws last night he just does not normally miss. I don't think that is a long term issue.

 

What is an issue is this current Redskins team is a good team WHEN WE GET A LEAD. We absolutely 100% have to get ahead early in games to win. When we do that we control the game by running, can take checkdowns to stay ahead of the chains and keep the clock moving and force teams to come out of zone to build a box which gives Smith some chunk play opportunities. We tend to get conservative with play calling but thats another issue.

 

When we get a lead we function well as a team playing complimentary football.

 

When we get behind though the wheels fall off. Teams just sit in a cover 2 shell (or variations) and we either don't have the horses outside to challenge secondaries or Smith is not willing to give his receivers an opportunity to challenge down the field. We are reduced to check downs and screens that get blown up because teams are sat back waiting for it. 

 

Plus only two targets for Jordan Reed is a criminal waste of his talent. I don't care how they are covering him that's inexcusable from a game planning, play calling and QB decision making perspective.

 

If we have to get ahead early to win it's going be a 6 to 8 win season again. Which is not good enough. If teams can stop us by getting a double digit lead and sitting in C2 and C3 with the odd zone blitz your offense is just not very good from both a system and personnel perspective.

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19 minutes ago, Tarpon75 said:

Because he is being held? 

 

I guess. Pretty sweet that he was never getting held back when he was touching a pass in what seemed like every game.

 

Not gonna jack the Smith thread with Kerrigan talk, but to me, most of the time I watch Kerrigan now he is just trying to loop around his blocker and winds up doing a long half circle run around the QB. I know he had a nice sack taken away by a legit unsportsmanlike on Nicholson last night. Not hatin'. Just seeing so many of Smith's passes being touched reminded me, "Oh yeah, Kerrigan used to do that a lot." 

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48 minutes ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

 

Do you know what's worse than 0-16? 

 

8-8.

 

Infinity mediocre. 

 

To play off of this point.  My wife is a Giants fan so I tend to watch most of their games.  I was actually jealous of their season last season when it was over-- I'd take the 2nd pick in the draft versus a 7-9 team with a QB situation in limbo.   What next for the Giants another top 3 pick and they land Herbert, Bosa or Oliver?  Eventually the team that hits bottom with GMs with some competence will leapfrog the 7-9 teams.    As I've said on this thread a zillion times if the result of the Alex trade is treading water at 8-8 -- its a big time wasted trade -- its one of the multiple reasons why I didn't like the trade.  

 

In Ryan Wilson of CBS Sports latest 2019 mock, #Giants select Oregon QB Justin Herbert No. 1 overall. "Manning's best days are way behind him & delaying the inevitable only squanders the prime years for players like Barkley, OBJ & Engram." #GiantsPrideNYGiants18.png

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Yuuuuuck!

 

Alex Smith was QB #25 (my belief being Alex is QB 8-25 in any game or season, depending on many variables outside himself) in the league last night, no doubt. If game flow doesn’t go to plan, Smith will struggle. I’m learning it can be brutally bad for him. His floor is lower than I expected. My goal coming was to give it 10-12 games to formulate an opinion either way on Alex, so I’m attempting to do this while making observations. 

 

Its my opinion, only the truly elite would’ve had a chance to make it a game with Brees and offense rolling like they were at home. This is not absolve Smith from the horrible game he played, but perspective I’m voicing to myself lol

 

Side note— How Reed doesn’t get 10 plus targets is beyond me. 

 

Additionally, let’s all remember Alex isn’t elite or close to it and isn’t being paid like it. Not a shot at Kirk, just the facts of Alex’s current contract. He will take around 10% of the cap for life of deal. This will put him in the 16-20 range each year. Expectations should be tailored to this fact, in my view. Not a right or wrong, just how I roll with it. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

In Ryan Wilson of CBS Sports latest 2019 mock, #Giants select Oregon QB Justin Herbert No. 1 overall. "Manning's best days are way behind him & delaying the inevitable only squanders the prime years for players like Barkley, OBJ & Engram." #GiantsPrideNYGiants18.png

 

Is this fail proof though? You post this as if it’s the “right” thing to do. The NFL is a season to season league. Who even rebuilds for 3 years anymore. It’s a win now league. 

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11 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Is this fail proof though? You post this as if it’s the “right” thing to do. The NFL is a season to season league. Who even rebuilds for 3 years anymore. It’s a win now league. 

 

Isn't that your opinion and not a fact, too?  And who said rebuilding for three years?

 

This is a thread of opinions.  In MY opinion its the right thing to do versus treading water to be mediocre.  You've spent enough time on this thread to know my opinion about for the Smith trade to pan out, they need to have a good season IMO, not mediocre, good one.  It's not my first rodeo of making it.  It's been a mantra for me.  And i am not ruling it out yet.  Lets see.

 

For example, do I enjoy that we have to deal with Barkley now with the Giants and years back Dallas crashing so they can get Elliot?  Nope.  I'd rather they have gone 7-9.  Do I want to see the Giants crash two seasons in a row to get a franchise type RB and or pass rusher or QB.  Nope.  I'd rather see them go 7-9.

 

If you feel differently, cool.

17 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Additionally, let’s all remember Alex isn’t elite or close to it and isn’t being paid like it. Not a shot at Kirk, just the facts of Alex’s current contract. He will take around 10% of the cap for life of deal. This will put him in the 16-20 range each year. Expectations should be tailored to this fact, in my view. Not a right or wrong, just how I roll with it. 

 

 

 

To make that point though at this point is not theoretical -- you have a concrete example of what it means.  Even Schaffer referred to this point implicitly in his interview on 106.7  The extra money meant Paul Richardson more or less.  If you want to throw in McPhee, too.  OK.    Would I rather have Kirk or Alex and Richardson.    Next year and the year after the discrepancy between the Kirk contract versus Alex plus Richardson makes the trade off just about identical. 

 

And I am one of the highest people on the board on richardson.  I don't think he's a stud but he might be the best Wr on the team right now.  Would I want both Alex and Richardson or just Kirk?  I'd take just Kirk by a mile. 

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19 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Yuuuuuck!

 

Alex Smith was QB #25 (my belief being Alex is QB 8-25 in any game or season, depending on many variables outside himself) in the league last night, no doubt. If game flow doesn’t go to plan, Smith will struggle. I’m learning it can be brutally bad for him. His floor is lower than I expected. My goal coming was to give it 10-12 games to formulate an opinion either way on Alex, so I’m attempting to do this while making observations. 

 

Its my opinion, only the truly elite would’ve had a chance to make it a game with Brees and offense rolling like they were at home. This is not absolve Smith from the horrible game he played, but perspective I’m voicing to myself lol

 

Side note— How Reed doesn’t get 10 plus targets is beyond me. 

 

Additionally, let’s all remember Alex isn’t elite or close to it and isn’t being paid like it. Not a shot at Kirk, just the facts of Alex’s current contract. He will take around 10% of the cap for life of deal. This will put him in the 16-20 range each year. Expectations should be tailored to this fact, in my view. Not a right or wrong, just how I roll with it. 

 

 

 

Actually Alex has the 8th highest QB contract right now, and it's the 3rd highest in guaranteed money. So, he's being paid very nicely, certainly top 10. Average per year is 23.5 million for all 5 years. Yes, I know we can opt out in 3 years, but that leaves us like 10 in dead cap space. All this for a 35 year old QB that has been very average over his career.

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Apropos of nothing, if Andy Reid stumbled into one of those '05 Steeler, '12 Ravens, '18 Eagles insane hot streaks that some teams get and grabs a Super Bowl, he's considered one of the 10 or 15 best coaches ever, right?

 

I mean, the guy is a legit offensive genius who has now twice sold us a 92 Bonneville with four bald tires.

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5 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Actually Alex has the 8th highest QB contract right now, and it's the 3rd highest in guaranteed money. So, he's being paid very nicely, certainly top 10. Average per year is 23.5 million for all 5 years. Yes, I know we can opt out in 3 years, but that leaves us like 10 in dead cap space. All this for a 35 year old QB that has been very average over his career.

 

This is the resource IÂ’m basing my information on AlexÂ’s contract:

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cap-hit/quarterback/

 

Let me know if they’re off or I’m missing something. Seriously. Zero smugness. 

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3 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

This is the resource IÂ’m basing my information on AlexÂ’s contract:

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cap-hit/quarterback/

 

Let me know if they’re off or I’m missing something. Seriously. Zero smugness. 

 

Nah, it's good. I used a different source. I think you were looking, at least from that one page, this year.

 

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/

 

Breaks things down a little bit deeper.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Morneblade said:

 

Nah, it's good. I used a different source. I think you were looking, at least from that one page, this year.

 

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/

 

Breaks things down a little bit deeper.

 

 

 

Ya man, this one says same as the one  I looking at. Click on each individual year and it will better show his year to year rank. That’s his rank without new contracts set to come for QBs this offseason. He will continue to fall lower in future seasons. 

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Smith was terrible last night. I've never seen him throw that many inaccurate passes.  He does tend to get happy feet when he feels his line isn't competing... and they certainly weren't competing last night.  So, happy feet galore and about as terrible a night for Smith as I've seen in a long time.  Most of the time, when he has what most folks would say is terrible game... it's because he get happy feet and gets the ball out quickly to his underneath routes instead of waiting for the the deeper pass to open up or even throw-open the deeper route.  Last night, he had happy feet and was missing on everything. 

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1 minute ago, wit33 said:

 

Ya man, this one says same as the one  I looking at. Click on each individual year and it will better show his year to year rank. That’s his rank without new contracts set to come for QBs this offseason. He will continue to fall lower in future seasons. 

 

But that doesn't really matter, does it? New contracts will always get more money. You were making out like Alex wasn't being paid like a top 10 QB. He is. He also has the 3rd highest guaranteed money., and Alexs cap hit goes up slightly, from 10.3 to 10.7% of the cap. Basically, what we are both saying is true.

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35 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Isn't that your opinion and not a fact, too?  And who said rebuilding for three years?

 

This is a thread of opinions.  In MY opinion its the right thing to do versus treading water to be mediocre.  You've spent enough time on this thread to know my opinion about for the Smith trade to pan out, they need to have a good season IMO, not mediocre, good one.  It's not my first rodeo of making it.  It's been a mantra for me.  And i am not ruling it out yet.  Lets see.

 

For example, do I enjoy that we have to deal with Barkley now with the Giants and years back Dallas crashing so they can get Elliot?  Nope.  I'd rather they have gone 7-9.  Do I want to see the Giants crash two seasons in a row to get a franchise type RB and or pass rusher or QB.  Nope.  I'd rather see them go 7-9.

 

If you feel differently, cool.

 

 

Yes sir, we do feel differently. Too many unknowns for me to worry about above variables. 

 

35 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

To make that point though at this point is not theoretical -- you have a concrete example of what it means.  Even Schaffer referred to this point implicitly in his interview on 106.7  The extra money meant Paul Richardson more or less.  If you want to throw in McPhee, too.  OK.    Would I rather have Kirk or Alex and Richardson.    Next year and the year after the discrepancy between the Kirk contract versus Alex plus Richardson makes the trade off just about identical. 

 

And I am one of the highest people on the board on richardson.  I don't think he's a stud but he might be the best Wr on the team right now.  Would I want both Alex and Richardson or just Kirk?  I'd take just Kirk by a mile. 

 

What if I said it allows for Skins to sign Thompson, Dunbar, AP,  and Brown?

 

I get it from your perspective, as you were higher on Kirks value than myself. I would’ve supported any move that didn’t involve paying non elite QB elite money, because the market said so. Colt McCoy experience would’ve been fun. Point being, I just wasn’t wanting to go with the market trend of paying a QB whatever they demand. 

 

Time will tell. 

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Right before the Smith trade, I had accepted Kirk was gone but thought the FA options (Bradford, Smith, Keenum, Bridgewater) were not good enough to pursue, and would have rather rolled with McCoy and drafted a QB.  

 

I sincerely ask this: had we done this, does anyone think our record is any worse with McCoy as the starter?

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14 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Right before the Smith trade, I had accepted Kirk was gone but thought the FA options (Bradford, Smith, Keenum, Bridgewater) were not good enough to pursue, and would have rather rolled with McCoy and drafted a QB.  

 

I sincerely ask this: had we done this, does anyone think our record is any worse with McCoy as the starter?

Not at all.  To this point, I think both QB’s would be 2-2.

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14 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Right before the Smith trade, I had accepted Kirk was gone but thought the FA options (Bradford, Smith, Keenum, Bridgewater) were not good enough to pursue, and would have rather rolled with McCoy and drafted a QB.  

 

I sincerely ask this: had we done this, does anyone think our record is any worse with McCoy as the starter?

 

No, and we're likely more competitive in our losses. Colt, for all his issues (noodle arm) would at least try to go downfield, and have a sense of urgency. Now, it's likely that he has a couple more picks to his name than Smith. But also likely more TD's.

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