Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[Morneblade]

2 minutes ago, CutPryorNow said:

There you go again.  I implied that Smith's efficiency would improve because the play-calling would revolve around more of what he is comfortable doing not what Jay wants to do. Smith isn't a great passer so why try to make him into one

 

So what is the alternative? We're already using ALOT of the RPO stuff from KC to make him more comfortable. What else is there, go Heavy Jumbo every play?

 

It's the NFL. QB's have to throw the ball.

[CutPryorNow]

2 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

So what is the alternative? We're already using ALOT of the RPO stuff from KC to make him more comfortable. What else is there, go Heavy Jumbo every play?

 

It's the NFL. QB's have to throw the ball.

I don't get paid the big bucks to have the answer for that. It's pretty obvious Alex Smith isn't going to change after being in the NFL as long as he has so my conclusion was if we made it to the NFC Championship Game something else would have to change

[TD_washingtonredskins]

7 minutes ago, CutPryorNow said:

There you go again.  I implied that Smith's efficiency would improve because the play-calling would revolve around more of what he is comfortable doing not what Jay wants him to do. Smith isn't a great passer so why try to make him into one

 

Yeah, this is a tough sell. Smith is missing badly on the same types of throws he hit much more consistently last year. I'm not going to argue that Gruden has called 9 perfect games, but he's put Smith (or any replacement-level thrower) in a position to probably have an additional 300 yards and 3 TDs so far. And that's just on throws Alex made and missed...that's not even counting poor reads or bad decisions. 

[CutPryorNow]

4 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Ummm, we run stuff that Alex likes and has had “success” with in the past every week.  This narrative that all this is new to him has been destroyed here on several occasions.

This isn't my argument and to be honest I don't have one but I appreciate you informing me. My point was that the play-calling is going to have to be improved along with Smith's efficiency. 

[Taylor 36]

12 minutes ago, CutPryorNow said:

There you go again.  I implied that Smith's efficiency would improve because the play-calling would revolve around more of what he is comfortable doing not what Jay wants to do. Smith isn't a great passer so why try to make him into one

There I go again???  For good measure, I will quote that part of your post again: "...most likely mean that the offensive play-calling would have improved dramatically"  That is more than implying that the play calling is bad, and in an Alex Smith thread nonetheless, in which you have made excuses for his poor play before.  So, it is not hard to put 2 and 2 together and come up with four.  When the play calling gets guys open more times than not but the QB fails to get them the ball time and time again, it's not the play calling.  Sure, we could add in more roll outs and bootlegs, but as a professional QB that has played in the league for 14 years and is getting paid a king's ransom, he more than should be able to make those plays.  The play calling does not need to improve dramatically.  The play of the QB does.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Morneblade said:

 

So what is the alternative? We're already using ALOT of the RPO stuff from KC to make him more comfortable. What else is there, go Heavy Jumbo every play?

 

It's the NFL. QB's have to throw the ball.

 

As with all things, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

 

Smith looked efficient throwing the ball in a quicker tempo offense last week. He was putting the ball in good spots and moved the ball down the field. It didn't result in points, so a lot remains to be seen, but it was a nice change. Can he do it against a better defense? Who knows. But I would say Gruden needs to adapt to what worked against Tampa and add it to the gameplan. Does that mean Gruden has called terrible games across the board for the first 9 weeks? Of course not. But things are never static in the NFL. Perhaps Smith is thinking too much and not executing the plays properly because he's in his own head... Maybe a quicker tempo eliminates the opportunity for him to think and he'll just play. Or maybe not. 

 

If you call plays, at any level, you have to acknowledge you can always do a better job. Always. Even if everything is working you'll find something that you look at and say, "Jesus, he bailed me out there. I called that completely wrong". 

 

Gruden just needs to continue trying to adapt to fit Smith, because Smith isn't the type of player that can adapt to fit Gruden.

[CutPryorNow]

1 minute ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Yeah, this is a tough sell. Smith is missing badly on the same types of throws he hit much more consistently last year. I'm not going to argue that Gruden has called 9 perfect games, but he's put Smith (or any replacement-level thrower) in a position to probably have an additional 300 yards and 3 TDs so far. And that's just on throws Alex made and missed...that's not even counting poor reads or bad decisions. 

I agree with what you're posting and my point is I don't think Alex Smith can be that quarterback so don't try to put a square peg in a round hole. Will he improve, yes will he be the last year's version of Alex Smith - not unless you go get Tyreek Hill

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 minute ago, CutPryorNow said:

I agree with what you're posting and my point is I don't think Alex Smith can be that quarterback so don't try to put a square peg in a round hole. Will he improve, yes will he be the last year's version of Alex Smith - not unless you go get Tyreek Hill

 

But you can't agree with me and then say you don't expect him to hit Sprinkle in the end zone for 15 yards away or Davis wide open on a post 40 yards downfield. He did THAT consistently last year. 

[CutPryorNow]

4 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

There I go again???  For good measure, I will quote that part of your post again: "...most likely mean that the offensive play-calling would have improved dramatically"  That is more than implying that the play calling is bad, and in an Alex Smith thread nonetheless, in which you have made excuses for his poor play before.  So, it is not hard to put 2 and 2 together and come up with four.  When the play calling gets guys open more times than not but the QB fails to get them the ball time and time again, it's not the play calling.  Sure, we could add in more roll outs and bootlegs, but as a professional QB that has played in the league for 1 years and is getting paid a king's ransom, he more than should be able to make those plays.  The play calling does not need to improve dramatically.  The play of the QB does.

I'm tired of typing posts from my phone so I will just admit that like most things you have a valid point but you're still not understanding what I'm trying to say

[Morneblade]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

As with all things, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

 

Smith looked efficient throwing the ball in a quicker tempo offense last week. He was putting the ball in good spots and moved the ball down the field. It didn't result in points, so a lot remains to be seen, but it was a nice change. Can he do it against a better defense? Who knows. But I would say Gruden needs to adapt to what worked against Tampa and add it to the gameplan. Does that mean Gruden has called terrible games across the board for the first 9 weeks? Of course not. But things are never static in the NFL. Perhaps Smith is thinking too much and not executing the plays properly because he's in his own head... Maybe a quicker tempo eliminates the opportunity for him to think and he'll just play. Or maybe not. 

 

If you call plays, at any level, you have to acknowledge you can always do a better job. Always. Even if everything is working you'll find something that you look at and say, "Jesus, he bailed me out there. I called that completely wrong". 

 

Gruden just needs to continue trying to adapt to fit Smith, because Smith isn't the type of player that can adapt to fit Gruden.

 

I don't think we were any quicker in tempo last week. In fact we had to call at least 2 time outs because the play clock was about to expire. Regularly, we get down to 5 or less seconds when the ball is snapped. In fact, I think we're running a slow offense, and doing it on purpose. Burn as much time as we can.

[CutPryorNow]

2 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

But you can't agree with me and then say you don't expect him to hit Sprinkle in the end zone for 15 yards away or Davis wide open on a post 40 yards downfield. He did THAT consistently last year. 

I do expect his accuracy to improve and he has to make those throws but Smith has never been more than a one maybe two read quarterback so my main point is based on the overall big picture

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Just now, CutPryorNow said:

I do expect his accuracy to improve and he has to make those throws but Smith has never been more than a one maybe two read quarterback so my main point is based on the overall big picture

 

OK, that's fair. But I think as an offense we will be fine if he just hits the easy ones from here on out. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Morneblade said:

 

I don't think we were any quicker in tempo last week. In fact we had to call at least 2 time outs because the play clock was about to expire. Regularly, we get down to 5 or less seconds when the ball is snapped. In fact, I think we're running a slow offense, and doing it on purpose. Burn as much time as we can.

 

We most certainly were on that one drive.

 

Keep in mind, quicker tempo doesn't mean rushing to the LOS. It just means play calls getting in quick, Smith getting the play out, players getting lined up and the ball getting snapped. Our offense just seems to lag in all of those things on a regular basis.

[Morneblade]

Just now, CutPryorNow said:

I do expect his accuracy to improve and he has to make those throws but Smith has never been more than a one maybe two read quarterback so my main point is based on the overall big picture

 

Agreed

also, I'd like to point out something you said earlier about Smith not being a good deep ball thrower.

 

You're right. Outside of 17' Smith has always been at the bottom of the league. Him missing Davis, and missing the way he did (where no one could get it) is vintage Alex Smith.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

We most certainly were on that one drive.

 

Keep in mind, quicker tempo doesn't mean rushing to the LOS. It just means play calls getting in quick, Smith getting the play out, players getting lined up and the ball getting snapped. Our offense just seems to lag in all of those things on a regular basis.

Regime to regime, QB to QB, I agree with this.  Both under Shanny and Gruden, with every QB, we see plays getting in late.

[Morneblade]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

We most certainly were on that one drive.

 

Keep in mind, quicker tempo doesn't mean rushing to the LOS. It just means play calls getting in quick, Smith getting the play out, players getting lined up and the ball getting snapped. Our offense just seems to lag in all of those things on a regular basis.

 

I agree. It was also one of the things he was supposed to be an upgrade in. I haven't seen anything that supports that, either.

 

For the most part I see the offense lag, sometimes badly. I don't see any quickness getting out of the huddle, and the hurry up has been almost non existent.Even when we've been down and time is running out.

[CutPryorNow]

Maybe I'm completely wrong about this entire topic but to me Smith has more chance of improving if the play-calling would maximize his skill set. That doesn't mean that I'm going to make excuses for him if he doesn't hit wide-open targets or make inaccurate throws. I guess I'm selling him short because I don't believe Smith is the 2017 Smith. I think he is a game manager who wants to win by not turning the ball over and making boneheaded decisions. I don't think he can be a multiple progression quarterback while staying in the pocket. In the past when he feels pressure he has run out of the pocket or hits his check down receiver instead of keeping his eyes downfield because I'm assuming that he doesn't want to throw an interception. 

[OVCChairman]

1 hour ago, Taylor 36 said:

When the play calling gets guys open more times than not but the QB fails to get them the ball time and time again, it's not the play calling. 

 

 

 

Honest question... when we've heard the same complaints from the same play caller across 3 QBs.. when do we start to look at the offensive play calling and adjustments to change the 1st / 2nd read in the progression?  All QBs under Gruden have been accused of missing the big plays that were available within this same offensive system.  

 

Yes, Alex has missed chances, I understand that, so my argument isn't that he doesn't have room for improvement, but for 5 seasons I've been hearing the same knocks about multiple different QBs.  

[CutPryorNow]

27 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

There I go again???  For good measure, I will quote that part of your post again: "...most likely mean that the offensive play-calling would have improved dramatically"  That is more than implying that the play calling is bad, and in an Alex Smith thread nonetheless, in which you have made excuses for his poor play before.  So, it is not hard to put 2 and 2 together and come up with four.  When the play calling gets guys open more times than not but the QB fails to get them the ball time and time again, it's not the play calling.  Sure, we could add in more roll outs and bootlegs, but as a professional QB that has played in the league for 14 years and is getting paid a king's ransom, he more than should be able to make those plays.  The play calling does not need to improve dramatically.  The play of the QB does.

I got my 2nd wind.  I wasn't implying that Gruden's play calling was bad. The implication was that I think the play calling will change to better utilize what Smith can offer. I should have used a different word than improved so you are correct there, but your implied assumption about what I was saying was incorrect. Adapting and changing is different from bad. Hopefully, Smith can do a little bit of that as well, but the play caller will always have an easier time adjusting than the player

3 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

 

Honest question... when we've heard the same complaints from the same play caller across 3 QBs.. when do we start to look at the offensive play calling and adjustments to change the 1st / 2nd read in the progression?  RG3, Kirk, and Alex have all at times been accused of missing the big plays that were available within this same offensive system.  

 

Yes, Alex has missed chances, I understand that, so my argument isn't that he doesn't have room for improvement, but for 5 seasons I've been hearing the same knocks about multiple different QBs.  

That's a good point and why Cousins can easily be put at the top of the passer podium in comparison to the other quarterbacks mentioned because he has learned how to go through his progressions while staying in the pocket. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

Honest question... when we've heard the same complaints from the same play caller across 3 QBs.. when do we start to look at the offensive play calling and adjustments to change the 1st / 2nd read in the progression?  RG3, Kirk, and Alex have all at times been accused of missing the big plays that were available within this same offensive system.  

 

Yes, Alex has missed chances, I understand that, so my argument isn't that he doesn't have room for improvement, but for 5 seasons I've been hearing the same knocks about multiple different QBs.  

Those same complaints are there for every franchise, every week.  Big plays will always go missed, even by the best QBs.  With Alex it’s more the regularity in which we see big/bigger plays missed because he’s not getting the ball out on time. 

 

 

[CutPryorNow]

Too bad we can't combine the legs of RG3, the passing stats of Cousins and the leadership of Smith. Wait a second I think his name is Aaron Rodgers

[ILikeBilly]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

We would enjoy it, naturally. But I presume the question is about who gets credit. As to that, depends how it happens. Based on what I've seen so far, I would guess either:

 

1. Wow we got one of the best D lines in the league, what a finish.

 

2. Adrian Peterson is superman and especially in cold weather.

 

3. Alex really picked it up as Jay keeps telling beat reporters would happen eventually.

 

4. Jay did a great job.

 

Probably a little of all 4 items. 

You left out "we are burning everyone with our positive turnover differential."

 

this is the biggest difference on offense this year.  We would not be 6 -3 with our qb  from last year. 5-4 at best, but 4-5 is more likely.  As shown above, we are scoring more this year than last year in our victories. As "bad" as Alex is, he is a winner.  

 

i know it is a losing argument on this board, but our qb situation for 2017 and 2018 is sort of like the D. Marino vs T. Bradshaw argument.  Bradshaw was a winner.  Marino threw a pretty ball.  

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

Yeah, I'm almost never in that thread. I listen to draft podcasts and read scouting reports, but I'm at the point where I hate falling in love with any player. I'm always scouring the reports and doing research on who the steals in round 6, 7 and UDFAs will be because thats more fun than just rounds 1 and 2. but there's generally less info on these players. Add to that what I've been talking about in this thread, players who are currently backups or recently cut players who could help us and its more fun to me. 

 

My point is I think you have me mischaracterized as a FA guy whereas you are a draft guy in contrast.   Not only did I hate trading draft picks, I even called in on a talk show once and grilled my hero Joe Gibbs who was taking questions and I asked him/implored him to stop trading away so many picks -- I even recall the example I used, you guys got Cooley in the third round, you'll can find good players in that round so why do you continually trade 3rd-4th rounders.

 

I actually follow the draft almost as much than I do the team during the season. 6th-7th rounders, too  I get every draft magazine that comes out, I used to get Kiper's draft reports that he'd mail.  I buy Bruglers reports now.  Everything I can get my hands on.  Watching the draft to me is more fun than any Redskins game and that says a lot if you'd see me on game day.  None of it makes me an expert but I enjoy it as much as the season.    You might see me as more of a FA guy because that's the thread I often see you post in and its one where we tend to debate each other. 

 

I actually think my own version of FA is more draft friendly than yours.  I am looking for a really good player or two, not 4 mediocre players and hope to get lucky on one. I am not saying FA always unfold like that but just using that example to make a point.   I don't mind when they split the difference of the two approaches like they did in 2017.   In the last FA, i liked Richardson and McPhee but neither guy to me are marquee guys but I'd take that over the Reyes, Johnson types.  On the aggregate, I'd give them a D + or C for FA. 

 

I am not looking to load up on guys like Reyes, McClain, J. Johsnon, etc -- veterans that haven't distinguished themselves and fill roster spots.  My way gives MORE roster sports open for young players than Bruce's typical approach. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

But again, I'll point out the FA approach, look at what we did at LG. Look at what SF has done at QB this year. I think that (especially as fans and local media goes) people sleep on the number of young backups who could be starters elsewhere. You definitely want to take the caution not to get into a overpaying deal, but just the fact that you can watch NFL film on a guy, see how he plays in the league, and potentially get him without having to go through the craphoot of the draft - and I don't really mean the whole "will he be good" but more the both teams like this player so how likely is it that we get him? 

 

I mean, who was Nick Mullens before this year? He was a cut / practice squad QB and now he's starting for SF and putting up respectable numbers. Scouting reports on him were AWFUL. Now, he's setting the world on fire. What does Gruden/Smith think of him now? Has he shown any more arm strength this year? What would it take to get him? 

 

Like anything people remember exceptions because they jump out.  The fact that lets say Peterman (supposedly the next mind round find) is flaming out or the Giants 3rd rounder, Webb, is flaming out on and on -- people don't flinch because its expected.   There are statistics that speak to your point and they aren't pretty as for the mid round QBs.   And yes there will always be exceptions to the rule.  But I am not placing my bets on exceptions. 

 

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

But with an older QB room right now, the risk of injury is more and more likely. The way most of these UDFAs and low round picks get a chance is normally through their team investing a lot into a QB and having a younger guy as a backup. Its less likely that we keep a guy like Hogan or Lauletta as the primary backup right now, with the extension given to McCoy but that's the route I think this team should be in. 

 

I just don't believe in set rules for player evaluation that doesn't factor the actual players.   Some teams have guidelines as for measurables of players -- lets say they don't want corners shorter than 6 foot, receivers slower than 4.6 or whatever metrics they want to use -- Belichick is famous for this.  But I don't think the typical team works out of precepts as to the draft without factoring the actual individual players. 

 

If Jay for example loves Grier (I just keep using his name hypothetically) is he supposed to say -- you know Gibbs blew a first rounder in a similar spot over 10 years ago on Jason Campbell and didn't pan out while Shanny nailed it with the 4th round pick or Brady was a 6th rounder or whatever?   So that theory will pervade Jay's thoughts about his favorite QBs and ditto the depth in the draft without really thinking about the actual players?

 

As for Alex, I think the season needs to play out as for whether there is desperation or not to find a Qb in the draft but either way I don't like to force feed it.  

[Jumbo]

@Thinking Skins

 

@CutPryorNow

 

each of you (and anyone i may have missed) need to edit kirk cousins material out of your posts to avoid a temp ban

 

the directive is right in the topic title---failure to follow it will result in a temp ban

 

do not reply to or comment on this post

 

 

 

[Boss_Hogg]

Random post from 2012-2018: "Hey let's talk about the Washington Redskins QB"

 

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