.500 In 2018 Would Be A Good Year For The Skins

[Voice_of_Reason]

14 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

The front office isn't going to find all the players we need in 1 year, to make us compete above a .500 level and Gruden will show little ability to coach beyond his 7-9 win norm.   A sub .500 season from Gruden is more likely than a winning record.

A few points:

 

- The FO and Gruden are now on year 5 of putting together a team.  So, the "players we need in 1 year" is horse-hockey.  They've already had 4 years under this management team to find the right players and coaches.  I'd like to (once again) remind everybody that they made exactly zero changes to the coaching staff or front office this year, so clearly they think they have a winning team set up.  I disagree, but that's the thought.

 

- They finally have the QB they wanted.  Gruden clearly never loved Kirk, they went out and got somebody who, while not a world beater, is a proven regular season winner.  No QB excuses.

 

- I don't give a rat's ass about the schedule.  You play the games on your schedule, and if you're a good team, you win more than you lose.  Also, in year 5, we should be a good team. 

 

- My opinion (and I am known as one of Gruden's harshest critics) is that he's an average (at best) coach, who will coach his team exactly to their level of competence.  He won't elevate the team, nor will he sink the team.  The "really Good" coaches (A Gibbs like coach) can elevate their team and squeeze every last drop out of them.  The "Really bad" coaches (A Zorn, or even Barry Switzer) will take a team and they'll under-perform.  I still to this day think that the third Cowboys SB in the 90's is so amazing because they literally won in spite of their awful coaching.  

 

I've said before, and I'll say again, if they don't get to 10 wins and the playoffs, the whole lot of them should be fired. Absolutely no excuses.  I don't want to hear about schedule, I don't want to hear about injuries, I don't want to hear about anything.  Go win 10 games.  A good start would be winning the opener. 

[88Comrade2000]

9 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

A few points:

 

- The FO and Gruden are now on year 5 of putting together a team.  So, the "players we need in 1 year" is horse-hockey.  They've already had 4 years under this management team to find the right players and coaches.  I'd like to (once again) remind everybody that they made exactly zero changes to the coaching staff or front office this year, so clearly they think they have a winning team set up.  I disagree, but that's the thought.

 

- They finally have the QB they wanted.  Gruden clearly never loved Kirk, they went out and got somebody who, while not a world beater, is a proven regular season winner.  No QB excuses.

 

- I don't give a rat's ass about the schedule.  You play the games on your schedule, and if you're a good team, you win more than you lose.  Also, in year 5, we should be a good team. 

 

- My opinion (and I am known as one of Gruden's harshest critics) is that he's an average (at best) coach, who will coach his team exactly to their level of competence.  He won't elevate the team, nor will he sink the team.  The "really Good" coaches (A Gibbs like coach) can elevate their team and squeeze every last drop out of them.  The "Really bad" coaches (A Zorn, or even Barry Switzer) will take a team and they'll under-perform.  I still to this day think that the third Cowboys SB in the 90's is so amazing because they literally won in spite of their awful coaching.  

 

I've said before, and I'll say again, if they don't get to 10 wins and the playoffs, the whole lot of them should be fired. Absolutely no excuses.  I don't want to hear about schedule, I don't want to hear about injuries, I don't want to hear about anything.  Go win 10 games.  A good start would be winning the opener. 

Good luck with that.

 

The last 3 years, the Skins have finished with 9, 8, 7 wins.  That's not exactly a good trajectory.   You may expect the team to win 10 games and make the playoffs. You are expecting something that Gruden has shown little ability to achieve.  That 2015 playoff year was really more a fluke. The Skins capitalizing on the NFC East being down that year.

 

I see every year, people crying about us not getting respect in the offseason.  I see every year and this year is not any different; that we should win 10,11 games at least.   I see every year, we fail to do that.

 

So, you may expect that in the 5th year; the Skins should take the next step.  The coach now has a QB he wants.  Maybe if this was a quality team, you can expect that.   

 

Is it excuses?  Maybe.   I see a team that has a schedule that should be littered with several superior teams.  As the 2018 season plays out, I fully expect us to show that we aren't a good team as you say we should be.  I fully expect us to show that we are at best a mediocre team but more likely a losing team with 6 or fewer wins.

 

I see a team with an inferior front office.  I assume Doug Williams is going to be the main point guy on talent acquisition but I have no clue how he's going to do. I also, don't think he's really the main point guy. I believe he more a front man; so that the real decision makers can hide behind.  I fully believe that Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder are the ones with the real final say.  If there's a player they really want, they will go after them.  We are year 5 of Allen/Gruden. You say they have built something, or at least assume they have built something. I don't think we have really built anything.  I see, just an ad hoc assembly trying to get by year by year.  I have no confidence in this current front in acquiring the talent for us to move beyond mediocre to being a consistent playoff contender.

 

We probably agree that Gruden is at best average.  That's all he's done. He's taken us from the misery of the Pre-Gruden era of Shanny/Zorn to just being mediocre.  I see nothing in him, to take us beyond mediocre.  He has gotten slightly worse each of the last 2 years and I fully expect the same for 2018.

 

Alex Smith.  I have no ill will towards our new QB.  So, he's just and older version of Kirk; people say.  He's going from a superior team to an inferior team.  Since many assume he's an upgrade over the previous QB; they are expecting Alex to lead us to the playoffs in 2018. Alex is what was missing.  Alex went from a team with a good front office, good head coach and players.  He going to somewhere just the opposite.  I fully expect an adjustment period.  You expect for us to hit the ground running from Day 1.  I expect an adjustment period that could be painful, early on.  Personally, I would've waited until free agency before signing or trading for someone.  We brought Alex in a desperation move; because the coach has to win now; 2018. Maybe the better move, would gone after a younger QB and maybe even draft someone.

 

I fully expect another season of frustration, misery and disappointment.  I fully expect this team to fail again in 2018, like it usually does. I fully expect another losing season; at best 6-10. I fully expect change after the 2018 season.  You expect the opposite. So, good luck with that.  Nothing in the 19 year history of Dan Snyder; leads me to believe your expectations will be what happens.     All, I hope this year is see glimpses from the players; the new crew can build upon in 2019.  Only one of us will be right.   One thing, I don't expect Bruce Allen to be fired.  He's Dan buddy and it will take a Zorn type season for Dan to get riddy of his Buddy.  

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

49 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

fully expect another season of frustration, misery and disappointment.  I fully expect this team to fail again in 2018, like it usual does. I fully expect another losing season; at best 6-10. I fully expect change after the 2018 season.  You expect the opposite. So, good luck with that.  Nothing in the 19 year history of Dan Snyder; leads me to believe your expectations will be what happens.     All, I hope this year is see glimpses from the players; the new crew can build upon in 2019.  Only one of us will be right.   One thing, I don't expect Bruce Allen to be fired.  He's Dan buddy and it will take a Zorn type season for Dan to get riddy of his Buddy. 

I have no idea how you read my post and came to the conclusion that I expected anything other than frustration, and that I also expect that there will be changes after the season.

 

What I’m saying, and have been posting for a while now, is that in year 5 of Bruce/Jay, there should be no excuses.  They’ve had plenty of time and drafts to build a competitive team.  I don’t want to hear about superior opponents. Or injuries. Or anything else. 

 

The time is now.  It’s put up or shut up time. 

 

I fully expect them to fail.  But at this point, that’s on them.  They’ve had plenty of time to figure it out. 

 

I have no idea if 6-10 or 7-9 is good enough to save Bruce.  I actually rather doubt it. Buddy or not, this would be 9 years with no playoff wins.

 

The only thing I don’t doubt about Snyder is his desire to win.  I really believe he WANTS to win.  I also believe that he has no idea HOW to win. And most of the moves he makes are counter to actually wining. But at some point he’s going to run out of patience and do something impulsive. And that’s not just firing Jay, I don’t think. 

[88Comrade2000]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I have no idea how you read my post and came to the conclusion that I expected anything other than frustration, and that I also expect that there will be changes after the season.

 

What I’m saying, and have been posting for a while now, is that in year 5 of Bruce/Jay, there should be no excuses.  They’ve had plenty of time and drafts to build a competitive team.  I don’t want to hear about superior opponents. Or injuries. Or anything else. 

 

The time is now.  It’s put up or shut up time. 

 

I fully expect them to fail.  But at this point, that’s on them.  They’ve had plenty of time to figure it out. 

 

I have no idea if 6-10 or 7-9 is good enough to save Bruce.  I actually rather doubt it. Buddy or not, this would be 9 years with no playoff wins.

 

The only thing I don’t doubt about Snyder is his desire to win.  I really believe he WANTS to win.  I also believe that he has no idea HOW to win. And most of the moves he makes are counter to actually wining. But at some point he’s going to run out of patience and do something impulsive. And that’s not just firing Jay, I don’t think. 

Got you.   Thing is, Bruce will have plenty of excuses.

 

He will blame Jay. He will blame Doug. He will blame the fans. He will blame ES and tell Dan to shut this board down.  Bruce is Dan's Vinny 2.0.  It will have to take something as inept as the Zorn hire, to wedge Bruce from Dan.  Gruden's inevitable firing; is just the natural conclusion to his mediocre tenure.  I think he peaked 2 years ago.  

 

i'm ready for the next era but have to wait for another year.

[bowhunter]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

What I’m saying, and have been posting for a while now, is that in year 5 of Bruce/Jay, there should be no excuses.  They’ve had plenty of time and drafts to build a competitive team.  I don’t want to hear about superior opponents. Or injuries. Or anything else. 

 

 

(Homer alert) I really don't think 2017 was a fair barometer of this team. Injuries were historically high. You can't lose that much talent in one season and not look like the 2017 Cleveland Browns. The Packers were 7-9 this year, largely due to one players injury. Sometimes the best teams are the ones who are lucky enough to avoid the injury bug. We had an epidemic.

[Veryoldschool]

8 hours ago, bowhunter said:

(Homer alert) I really don't think 2017 was a fair barometer of this team. Injuries were historically high. You can't lose that much talent in one season and not look like the 2017 Cleveland Browns. The Packers were 7-9 this year, largely due to one players injury. Sometimes the best teams are the ones who are lucky enough to avoid the injury bug. We had an epidemic.

 

I agree with you in over 50 years of watching I cannot remember a team with this many injuries.  I am hoping for a much better year in 2018 but I felt Cousins was able to carry the team so even if the team is healthier this year I think reaching .500 would be an accomplishment.

[veteranskinsfan]

It would be great if Skins could win 10 games but I do not see that happening.  I saw Smith when he was on the 49ers.  He was not that good and he had positive weapons around him and a very good head coach.  Last year he had great weapons around him and he performed better.  The problem is that Allen and Williams will not find superior talent to give Alex the weapons he needs.  I think that is one big reason why Kirk left.  He saw that he would not get more offensive weapons to help him.

Also we need a huge upgrade to the defense and a decent running back.  I would not be happy with an 8-8 record or worse like 6-10.  If they do not make the playoffs, then you might as well let the coaches go and start over again for what seems like the hundredth time.

[c slag]

When does the schedule get announced? 

Or even better when do they start the schedule prediction and rumors thread on here? 

[pjfootballer]

Schedule should be out before the draft.

[Art]

The initial post is so idiotic as to be ridiculous.   Cousins just QB'd the team to 7-9.   It's not like losing him is the factor in the record as Cousins never did much to win games (and frankly he didn't lose many either, first Philly game last year aside).   If the team is healthy and Smith is our QB there's 0 reason to believe Smith, who has QB'd teams to winning records in the last seven straight seasons, couldn't do the same with us.   If the team is injured, like last year, it's highly unlikely we'd do better than we did last year as Cousins DID have the advantage of system knowledge.   Losing Cousins is simply not any concern given we signed a guy who's pretty much the same level player.   He could have cost us if we went from him, say, to Josh McCown or something.   But we swapped one good player for another good player.   QB is the least of our concerns heading in to the season.

 

[Cooleyfan1993]

On 3/14/2018 at 9:25 PM, c slag said:

When does the schedule get announced? 

Or even better when do they start the schedule prediction and rumors thread on here? 

Yeah usually the schedule gets released around mid April. A week before the draft usually. And in April that’s when we start seeing the schedule prediction thread and rumors being thrown around too  makes for an exciting month, with players arriving back to training facilities as well! 

[DC Lumber Co.]

20 minutes ago, Art said:

The initial post is so idiotic

 

Cousins just QB'd the team to 7-9.   It's not like losing him is the factor in the record as Cousins never did much to win games...

 

I was as big of a Cousins supporter as anyone, but I gotta agree with you here. In hindsight, I think it's clear that Cousins was always playing to not hurt his value first and foremost.  

 

I also wonder if it was a big reason Cousins wasn't very invested in the development of young/new receivers. Could Pryor have had a better year with a different QB who didn't have one foot out the door? And would Doctson have progressed at a little faster rate? Cousins wasnt going to waste his balls to receivers like that, he went to his trusted targets first and foremost and had little patience for drops.

[DC Lumber Co.]

I also can't wrap my brain around the boards disdain for Jay. Are people not able to separate their hatred for the FO, so therefore it trickles down to their feelings on the coaching staff as well?

 

The guy is a great offensive mind that is well respected around the league by coaches and players alike. Has he had his growing pains and fumbled some clock management situations here and there? Sure. But overall I think he's been the best coach we've had since Gibbs.

 

Hes shown his willingness to stand up to management when he feels passionately about certain personnel and proved it in his conviction to move on from RG3. 

 

The biggest reason I love Jay is that he's been able to do something no coach has been able to do in DC, and that's build a strong locker room/team culture. Truth is, we wouldn't have been able to sign guys like Zach Brown or Josh Norman without the improved respect for the team around the league that Jay Gruden built since his arrival. In the past the only way we could get players to choose the Skins over other suitors is if we paid the most. Unlike the fanbase the players actually believe in what is being built here, and have actively helped recruit new players citing the culture that they love being a part of.

 

We don't hear of locker room drama very often, very few leaks to the press, and have players that hold each other accountable. Just look at the Su'a Cravens situation.

 

Grudens no-bs attitude is infectious and what he's done for this team is grossly underappreciated around here.

[USS Redskins]

Skins are the nfc browns now. I have admitted it. I still love them for all their crapiness. I have no false hopes anymore. 

I can see my death... my corpse in my recliner... redskins direct tv remote in hand... final score on tv: Dallas 35 redskins 13.

they break my heart a final time. Hopefully in like 2055. 

[pjfootballer]

^^ My TV screen would read  Dallas 34 Redskins 28 in OT for the NFCCG. First time in the playoffs in 25 years.  

[Peregrine]

On 3/16/2018 at 1:50 PM, DC Lumber Co. said:

I also can't wrap my brain around the boards disdain for Jay. Are people not able to separate their hatred for the FO, so therefore it trickles down to their feelings on the coaching staff as well?

 

The guy is a great offensive mind that is well respected around the league by coaches and players alike. Has he had his growing pains and fumbled some clock management situations here and there? Sure. But overall I think he's been the best coach we've had since Gibbs.

 

Hes shown his willingness to stand up to management when he feels passionately about certain personnel and proved it in his conviction to move on from RG3. 

 

The biggest reason I love Jay is that he's been able to do something no coach has been able to do in DC, and that's build a strong locker room/team culture. Truth is, we wouldn't have been able to sign guys like Zach Brown or Josh Norman without the improved respect for the team around the league that Jay Gruden built since his arrival. In the past the only way we could get players to choose the Skins over other suitors is if we paid the most. Unlike the fanbase the players actually believe in what is being built here, and have actively helped recruit new players citing the culture that they love being a part of.

 

We don't hear of locker room drama very often, very few leaks to the press, and have players that hold each other accountable. Just look at the Su'a Cravens situation.

 

Grudens no-bs attitude is infectious and what he's done for this team is grossly underappreciated around here.

The disdain for Jay is because hes had 1 season in 4 with more than 8 wins.

 

I agree that I dont think people appreciate the one playoff appearance in 4 years, during the season when the rest of the NFC east was horrifically bad.

 

[Louskins9193]

Last year I predicted the Skins would go 7-9 and thats exactly what happened. This year unless I see some significant changes on FA or the Draft

I predict 6-8 and if that happens then we need to clean house starting from the FO on down. Theres no vision for this team from the Owner on down.

No plan on how were going to get to the playoffs and beyond, I already can see something special formulating on the 49ers organization. 

The 49ers looks like they have a winning FO so far based on some of their moves. The Skins continue with the same status quo mediocre team mentality.

[HigSkin]

Applicable to this thread...

 

 

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

In 2016, Washington's Jay Gruden played 89.4 percent of his "questionable" players, the second-highest rate in the league. He had the highest rate in his 2014 rookie season and was middle-of-the-pack in 2015. In 2017 he had the sixth-highest rate played, but also had to use questionable more than any team (94 times), as you will see below.

 

", we can say that Gruden has had the most injured teams of any coach since 2002. This 2017 total does not even include anything for safety Su'a Cravens, who shocked everyone when he decided to retire a week before the regular season. "

 

^^ from the link in post above. 

 

I usually equate injuries with luck (or unlucky) and expect 2018 to be healthier .... but 2016 and 2017 were bad injury years so is it just bad luck multiple times or something we are doing? Light pre season, forced to play questionable players bc of lack of depth or playoff push? 

 

I dont know. I do know last year sucked. After week 1, the team was putting something together on defense .. then injuries just killed us and the last 8 games seemed liked fruitless up hill battles, treading water.   

 

 

 

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Having the most injured team in 15 years and finishing a game under .500 is actually pretty impressive. Granted, not every injury is impactful. For example, losing Reed is a big deal, but going from RB4 to RB5 is not a big deal. 

 

Anyway, I think even if last year's team was perfectly healthy (which doesn't happen), we weren't much better than 9-7. We played Dallas tight in the first game, the Eagles tight in the second game, and could have beaten New Orleans. So, realistically we'd win the Saints game and one of the two divisional games. Even if we sweep all 3 we are likely still out of the playoffs at 10-6 (maybe we'd have made it with 3 more conference wins). 

 

The point is...I think Gruden did a nice job but I still think our ceiling is 10 wins if EVERYTHING goes our way in a given season. 

[skinny21]

I’ve said before - we had some quality depth last year.  The coaches also seemed to deal with guys off the street and they’d play above expectations for the most part.  However, they could only go so far in trying to overcome the injuries we had.  

 

We were a team that would have been able to lose our LT, #1 corner, #1 back, #1 pass rusher, and #1 receiver... all at the same time, and stay competitive.  2 injured tackles and a 3rd hurt much of the year?  That’s a different story.  4 ILBs?  That’s brutal.  

 

So, compared with the beginning of last season, I think we have a little more depth in some spots, a little less in some, and some starters that surprised and/or showed well (Ioannidas and Nicholson, for example).  

 

If the team team can find 2 or 3 new (good) starters - DL, LG and RB - either find some depth at a few more spots or get some injury luck there, we’ve got a shot at double digit wins.  

 

Right now I’m saying 7-9.  It’s not about the wins for me though.  I want to see guys play well, find some good, new players, and compete.  If we look like an improved team, but just miss out on a good amount of close wins, I can live with that.  If it takes time for Smith (and others) to mesh, I can live with that.  I just need to see progress with the personnel.  If we suck vs the run and can’t run the ball again, I’m gonna be pretty darn ticked off.  

[Wyvern]

Whenever I look at the second half of the Chiefs-Titans game and watched Smith's offense fold without Kelce, I can only conclude the Skins will not do well in however many games Reed is unable to play in 2018.  Stop drinking Allen's Koolaid, and realize that Smith won't deliver the Skins a championship-- he'll just keep the Skins in the hunt, until around mid-season, when the rookies are asked to step in.

 

I'm ignoring the O-line gaps leading to pass-blocking problems, the fact that unlike KCChiefs WR T. Hill, Skin WR Doctson is a 50-50 quasi-rookie who has trouble creating clear separation, a recent trend how the O-line seems prone to performance-dropping injuries, that fact that the Skins running back corps is tepid at best, an observation that the coaching in the red zone and in the last two minutes is suspect, etc.    ...And please, don't make me shine a light on the defensive shortcomings.

 

Maybe the Skins wind up with an awesome draft -- that allows them new talent to boost up their dwindling talent levels.  Maybe not.

 

Time will tell.

[HigSkin]

16 hours ago, skinny21 said:

 

Right now I’m saying 7-9.  It’s not about the wins for me though.  I want to see guys play well, find some good, new players, and compete.  If we look like an improved team, but just miss out on a good amount of close wins, I can live with that.  If it takes time for Smith (and others) to mesh, I can live with that.  I just need to see progress with the personnel.  If we suck vs the run and can’t run the ball again, I’m gonna be pretty darn ticked off.  

 

I'm sitting here watching the NFLN rerun of the Pats/Chiefs opener last year where KC just handled the Pats.  We don't see a lot of Chiefs games here on the east coast so I really haven't watched them much.  One thing that stands out to me is how much Smith spreads the ball around (run/pass) and how much his "legs" extends plays.  T. Hill went out in the 3rd quarter of this game.  Our offense is going to be fun to watch this year and yea, we better have a great run game to support him!

[Veryoldschool]

On 3/13/2018 at 10:03 AM, veteranskinsfan said:

It would be great if Skins could win 10 games but I do not see that happening.  I saw Smith when he was on the 49ers.  He was not that good and he had positive weapons around him and a very good head coach.  Last year he had great weapons around him and he performed better.  The problem is that Allen and Williams will not find superior talent to give Alex the weapons he needs.  I think that is one big reason why Kirk left.  He saw that he would not get more offensive weapons to help him.

Also we need a huge upgrade to the defense and a decent running back.  I would not be happy with an 8-8 record or worse like 6-10.  If they do not make the playoffs, then you might as well let the coaches go and start over again for what seems like the hundredth time.

 

I don't want this team ripped up and built from scratch with a new coach.  Gruden is a pretty good coach in my view.  Now if you want to clean out the front office including Bruce Allen and Doug Williams I wouldn't mind as long as solid football guys were hired and they were given real authority.  I don't think Snyder will ever get smart enough to let football guys run the team, so I don't see any real advance in pitching Gruden if they are mediocre this year.  Truth is expecting them to be mediocre in 2018 is as optimistic as I can be.

 

Look at the cornerback position where they let two young promising quarterbacks leave and they lost Ryan Grant also.  Grant was not a world beater but he ran accurate routes and was a solid contributor as the 3rd WR.

[veteranskinsfan]

You mean two promising receivers, right-not quarterbacks.