.500 In 2018 Would Be A Good Year For The Skins

[DC Lumber Co.]

Weren't the Eagles a heavily injured team lately that turned things around?

 

Didn't they get slammed for letting go of a high production receiver and having faith in a young one in Nelson Agholor?

 

I'm sure they felt they were closer than many gave them credit for due to the injuries they suffered, and they certainly proved that to be true.

 

So many trash this regime when in reality we've done a damn good job in developing drafted and UDFA talent. Matt Ioannidis was a bust around here...until he wasn't. The Fuller pick was also bashed until last year and now we're idiots for trading him in the Smith deal.

 

Fabian Moreau could very well be a good player after an injured rookie season. I'm not giving up on Ryan Anderson neither, kid is nasty. This past year was essentially Doctson's rookie season. Tons of more examples but I wouldn't be able to change any of your minds.

 

We're not a hollow, top-heavy roster anymore riddled with overpaid aging FA players. But it never fails, the sky is always falling around here.

 

Bruce can't evaluate talent, we're screwed because Scot picked the good ones we do have, Scot was lying when he said Jay was one of the best college talent evaluating coaches he had worked with,  Dan Snyder is still meddling, FedEx field is cursed, blah blah blah. You know how this **** goes by now...

[TD_washingtonredskins]

12 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Ya, that's pretty much how I feel about this.  We could've focused our efforts on drafting a future franchise QB once we knew we weren't bringing Cousins back (which is what I wanted).  Trading for Alex was a win now move, so we better win now or somebody needs to pay for that decision.

 

 

I just want to distinguish between who we are evaluating. If Allen hands Gruden a 7-win roster and we go 8-8, then Gruden should get a passing grade. Same with Smith. It's not like Smith or Gruden can suddenly turn Ryan Grant into something he's not. 

[Renegade7]

Just now, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I just want to distinguish between who we are evaluating. If Allen hands Gruden a 7-win roster and we go 8-8, then Gruden should get a passing grade. Same with Smith. It's not like Smith or Gruden can suddenly turn Ryan Grant into something he's not. 

That's fair, and I agree. 

 

We pulled off a couple wins last year where we just flat out overacheived versus being the more talented roster.  Besides maybe the Giants, which teams did we play last year where had more talent then? 

 

I'm absolutely more pissed off with Allen then Gruden right now (though Gruden's not perfect, either, just not who I'm pretty much done with right now).

[Area51]

9 minutes ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

Weren't the Eagles a heavily injured team lately that turned things around?

 

Didn't they get slammed for letting go of a high production receiver and having faith in a young one in Nelson Agholor?

 

I'm sure they felt they were closer than many gave them credit for due to the injuries they suffered, and they certainly proved that to be true.

 

So many trash this regime when in reality we've done a damn good job in developing drafted and UDFA talent. Matt Ioannidis was a bust around here...until he wasn't. The Fuller pick was also bashed until last year and now we're idiots for trading him in the Smith deal.

 

Fabian Moreau could very well be a good player after an injured rookie season. I'm not giving up on Ryan Anderson neither, kid is nasty. This past year was essentially Doctson's rookie season. Tons of more examples but I wouldn't be able to change any of your minds.

 

We're not a hollow, top-heavy roster anymore riddled with overpaid aging FA players. But it never fails, the sky is always falling around here.

 

Bruce can't evaluate talent, we're screwed because Scot picked the good ones we do have, Scot was lying when he said Jay was one of the best college talent evaluating coaches he had worked with,  Dan Snyder is still meddling, FedEx field is cursed, blah blah blah. You know how this **** goes by now...

 

...are you actually defending this organization?  Bringing up, of all teams, the Eagles?

 

Let's look at the Eagles situation.  Jeffrey Lurie(sp?) realized he made a mistake with Chip Kelly.  Fired him and brought back Roseman.  Roseman has been super aggressive, both in FA and in the draft.  He hired and excellent, under-the-radar head coach, got rid of horrible contracts(Maxwell, Murray), traded relatively low assets for a franchise QB, flipped his starting QB for a first-round pick, trades for good/really good players for mid-late round picks(Ajayi, Bennett, Jernigan), and pays his young players before they reach FA.  In the span of only 2 YEARS, he took that dumpster of team and turned it into a Super Bowl winner.

 

Snyder, on the other hand, is about to watch his franchise QB walk out the door.  He's witnessed his buddy Bruce, completely screw up the most important position in all of professional sports.  They chose to give him $44 million guaranteed the past two years, rather than respect him and negotiate on fair terms.  This is the first time in modern NFL history that an already established franchise QB is going to be a FA in the prime of his career.  Think about that.  Cousins is walking away, and we get a 3rd round comp pick a year from now in return.  What does Allen do to remedy the situation?  He goes out and trades significant assets, a third round pick and one of our best defensive players, to acquire a 33/34 year QB, who's more or less on the same level of Cousins.  That's just one, albeit colossal, example of the many failings of Allen(but we're giving the 'scabs' Super Bowl rings...great PR distraction).

 

Bottom line, please don't compare us in any way, shape or form to the Eagles.  

[DC Lumber Co.]

5 minutes ago, Area51 said:

 

...are you actually defending this organization?  Bringing up, of all teams, the Eagles?

 

5 minutes ago, Area51 said:

 

Bottom line, please don't compare us in any way, shape or form to the Eagles.  

 

Firstly, you aren't the authority on anything. Secondly, as I said in my post: the passionate pessimism can not be swayed around here so I'm not going to argue why I feel the situations aren't as drastically different as you're making them seem. 

 

Thanks for chastising me though. God forbid someone defends the organization and doesn't follow the herd in bashing everything they do.

[Skinsinparadise]

 I get branded as one of the bigger haters of the FO.  And heck I've posted plenty on it.  So I get why.   But oddly enough the macro points (not always the micro ones) I make about the FO often mirrors a lot of the FO defenders.  The FO defenders are often on the train of hey not everything they do is bad, they aren't a bunch of dopes, there is some good with the bad.  They deserve a break.  i actually agree with that except for the they deserve a break part.   IMO a so so operation isn't something I am going to feel good about.   And IMO the FO structure and how they handle things publicly make it a glass half empty feeling of so so.  I'd hope the pinnacle of Dan's reign isn't mediocrity with more of a politician versus a real personnel guy in charge.  

 

I like that Bruce doesn't make reckless FA signings.  But Bruce also IMO is too conservative-cheap.   We've gone from almost one extreme to another.  But the rewards often go to the bold.  That is, if you are bold and smart.  Cerrato was bold but wasn't smart.  Bruce's hallmark to me is that he doesn't overpay -- and by extension when he makes FA mistakes (and arguably he makes a ton of them) at least you can escape the contract after 2 years.  There is some value to that.  But IMO if they want to escape mediocrity -- they need to take more chances.

 

The Eagles are really aggressive.  Trading up and down the draft.  Getting veterans.  Getting high draft picks for their players.  Cerrato used to love to say they are going to be aggressive and won't apologize for that.  Bruce is typically conservative.  Everything being equal, I'd like a balance of the two approaches.  It's great that the team can escape their FA mistakes now better than ever.  But I'd rather risk it more and go for the kill.

 

There are some indications from beat guys that they might actually be in the go for the kill mode.  If so, great.  That's what i want -- especially with a 34 year old QB -- which doesn't lend to a rebuild or slow burn drill.

 

 

NBC Sports Redskins‏Verified account @NBCSRedskins 5h5 hours ago

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Need to Know: The #Redskins have been conservative the last several offseasons while the aggressive Eagles has passed them by. Can they continue the same approach?

 

[skinny21]

56 minutes ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

Weren't the Eagles a heavily injured team lately that turned things around?

The only thing I recall reading about the Eagles and injuries was they’ve been one of the healthier teams in the League.  Certainly possible they slipped in a couple of down years though.  

56 minutes ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

 

Didn't they get slammed for letting go of a high production receiver and having faith in a young one in Nelson Agholor?

Well, they signed Jeffries and Smith and moved Agholar to the slot.  If your overall point is that other teams lose/get rid of talent, or if you’re insinuating that our receiving corp could get a big boost this offseason, I agree.  

56 minutes ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

 

I'm sure they felt they were closer than many gave them credit for due to the injuries they suffered, and they certainly proved that to be true.

They were closer, now they’re further away.  Remains to be seen if that changes.  

 

Last year, our strongest areas were our DTs when healthy (that stays the same), our pass rush (losing Galette could hurt us there), our secondary (we lose Breeland and Fuller and might have to rely heavily on 2 unproven guys - Moreau and Holsey), our starting linebackers (when healthy, but Brown now may be gone without much to replace him with), and qb (we’ll see what happens here, but Smith has to learn the offense, get comfortable with it, and develop chemistry with his receivers).  

 

Oline should be a strength next year, but even there we have a big question mark.  

 

On top of the above potential/likely drop offs, our 34 line needs help, our run game needs help and we need a pass catcher.  

56 minutes ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

 

So many trash this regime when in reality we've done a damn good job in developing drafted and UDFA talent. Matt Ioannidis was a bust around here...until he wasn't. The Fuller pick was also bashed until last year and now we're idiots for trading him in the Smith deal.

 

Fabian Moreau could very well be a good player after an injured rookie season. I'm not giving up on Ryan Anderson neither, kid is nasty. This past year was essentially Doctson's rookie season. Tons of more examples but I wouldn't be able to change any of your minds.

 

We're not a hollow, top-heavy roster anymore riddled with overpaid aging FA players. But it never fails, the sky is always falling around here.

Yeah, we have a lot decent talent here.  I have a lot of hope for the youth we have on the team.  We also have a lot of pretty unproven guys we’re expecting/needing (as of now) to step up.  This offseason is going to be tough.  Does the win now mentality pay off?  Does it (further) interfere with long term success?  Does the FO blow it because they think they’re better than they are?

56 minutes ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

 

Bruce can't evaluate talent, we're screwed because Scot picked the good ones we do have, Scot was lying when he said Jay was one of the best college talent evaluating coaches he had worked with,  Dan Snyder is still meddling, FedEx field is cursed, blah blah blah. You know how this **** goes by now...

Hard to find anyone thinking Allen is a good evaluator, but the bigger deal is does he listen to his guys?  On top of that, we need to hope he’s got an eye toward the future too.  Quite possible/likely Scot is the one behind our generally decent/good drafting, so I’m not sure what you’re getting at - should fans ignore that?  Are fans unreasonable to be concerned on that front?   Jay could be a great evaluator (as far as coaches go), but who knows what that means.  Does Allen listen to him?  Did Scot take his advice, or just think he was better than other coaches he’s worked with (ie it didn’t really matter, because Scot was going his own way)?

 

I mean, overall, is your point that the FO deserves of our trust and faith because there are some moves they deserve credit for?  No offense, but I can see why you think your post may fall on deaf ears. 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

As a standing board member of the Fire Bruce Allen committee, I say on behalf of all our constituents:

 

Bruce Allen isn't all bad.  He is not literally the worst GM in professional sports.  The front office makes some good moves.

 

With all that I say, he still isn't good enough.  The good moves don't come close to outweighing the bad ones.  I don't need to rehash the laundry list of epic failures and embarrassments under his watch.  You know what they are whether you agree with them or not.  The results are what they are.  The history is what it is. 

 

I can't imagine a better place to work or better folks to work for than that of the folks here who constantly go to bat for Bruce, highlighting small wins and glossing over big losses.  Where I work, small wins and big losses gets you fired.

 

[I Love The Skins]

I'm going to wait until FA and the draft is over before I make a prediction.

[Unbias]

I'm going into this season with extremely lowered expectations. Personally I feel Kirk was our Romo, meaning he helped take a 4 win team to 7-10 wins, but wasn't good enough to beat playoff caliber teams. Maybe there's a seamless transition to Alex Smith, but I just get the feeling things will be worse and when focusing on Smith we'll learn what both the 49ers and Chiefs learned over time. 

[pjfootballer]

Wow, is this what we've come to?  Settling?  Nah, I'm not good with 8-8.  I've seen mediocre to suck for 26 seasons.  Other teams have turned it around. No reason we shouldn't.

 

I know fans have 2 factors based on settling for 8-8 seasons:

 

1. Battered fan syndrome and:

2. The "everybody gets a trophy mentality" that purveys sports.

 

I'd only call it a successful year if we win 10+ games.  Going 10-6 would pique my interest, but they would have to follow it up with 11, 12+ win seasons henceforth.

 

I can recall a time when 8 or 9 wins wasn't good enough for this franchise.  Now we seem to revel in them.  Sure, 8 or 9 wins is a lot better than 3, 4 or 5, but not good enough for me.  I'd love to have a Patriots type run, but I know that is really a once in a lifetime situation and is quite frankly not feasible in this day and age.  But, I wouldn't mind a Steelers type run, where you remain competitive with 10, 11, 12 win seasons, win a couple of SBs and be in the running year in and year out.

 

I won't enjoy 8-8.  Not good enough.

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, pjfootballer said:

 

I won't enjoy 8-8.  Not good enough.

 

 

 

 

 

That goes double for me with a 34 year old QB.   IMO it has to end up much better than the last two times where we did something similar -- Brunell and McNabb.   

 

They've put themselves IMO in win now mode.  That's not 8-8.  Not saying they won't end up 8-8.  But IMO you aren't giving up one of your best young players and a high third round pick for an 8-8 season so they can tread water. That would be IMO a failure unless they have a big season the next year.

[Voice_of_Reason]

This is year 5 of the Gruden/Allen partnership.  They’ve got a QB they went out to sign, made exactly 0 changes to the coaching staff, so clearly they like the staff, and they have had 5 years to put in a system and acquire players for that system.

 

i don’t give a rats ass about the schedule.

 

In year 5 you be not be shocked at losing players to FA and have to replace them.   So I really don’t care about FA attrition.

 

if they don’t win 10 games and get in the playoffs, the entire lot of them should be fired.  Period.  No more excuses.  

 

I personally see 7-9 again, because I really think Jay is an 8-8 coach, and Allen is a 6-10 GM.  Split the difference.   7-9.  

 

I hope I’m wrong.  The next 2-3 weeks is going to be very telling. I just doubt we get any better, and even if we stay moderately healthy, this is an 8-8 roster at best with an 8-8 coach.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

I personally see 7-9 again, because I really think Jay is an 8-8 coach, and Allen is a 6-10 GM.  Split the difference.   7-9.  

 

I hope I’m wrong.  The next 2-3 weeks is going to be very telling. I just doubt we get any better, and even if we stay moderately healthy, this is an 8-8 roster at best with an 8-8 coach.

 

 

 

I dont agree with everything in that post. But i agree 100% with this is a put up or shut up year. And the next 2 weeks or so are absolutely huge.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I dont agree with everything in that post. But i agree 100% with this is a put up or shut up year. And the next 2 weeks or so are absolutely huge.

I wouldn’t expect you to agree with the whole post.  

 

I'm glad we agree this is a put up or shut up year, though. 

 

We camt start taliibg about the team being in a rebuild after 5 years of the same leadership, especially since we haven’t won anything. 

 

Im really hoping Bruce/Jay are right about Alex and they can put enough of a team together to get to 10 wins, and at least 3-3 in division. That has to be the minimum expectation for this group to stick around.  If you can’t do it after 5 years, you’re not going to be able to do it. 

P

The worst possible scenario is Bruce fires Jay and is allowed to stick around to pick the next HC.  That would be absolutely the worst. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

10 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

The worst possible scenario is Bruce fires Jay and is allowed to stick around to pick the next HC.  That would be absolutely the worst. 

 

My god, is it ever.

 

I’ve said numerous times that I can’t quit this team no matter how much of a clown show they are.  But if Bruce survives another head coach, I’m pretty sure that would be the nail in the coffin for what’s left of my dying enthusiasm.

[skinfan2k]

I want to go 2-14 or 3-13.  Fire and clean house. I actually want the redskins to be the worst team in teh nfl for the next 2 years. 

[Cliffmark1]

8 hours ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

 

 

Firstly, you aren't the authority on anything. Secondly, as I said in my post: the passionate pessimism can not be swayed around here so I'm not going to argue why I feel the situations aren't as drastically different as you're making them seem. 

 

@Area51 cannot tell you what he is or is not an authority on. 

[onedrop]

9 hours ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

 

 

Firstly, you aren't the authority on anything. Secondly, as I said in my post: the passionate pessimism can not be swayed around here so I'm not going to argue why I feel the situations aren't as drastically different as you're making them seem. 

 

Thanks for chastising me though. God forbid someone defends the organization and doesn't follow the herd in bashing everything they do.

so you have no problem arguing your position until its refuted and then you employ the "nanny nanny boo boo, stupid mean face" defense? 

 

but seriously, the eagles FO have run circles around ours and shown with the correct approach a team doesn't; need anywhere near 20 years to merely get bounced in the first round.....or boast about the first 2 consecutive winning seasons since forever.....get duped into taking THAT rivals old worm burner QB......or sue grandmas......or send ice cream to a subordinate.....or trade the farm for a loud mouth with a big smile to break himself.....or pay over 100 mil for a fat man to nap on the field.....need to lie about sellouts and waiting lists....or let someones ego pay a homegrown player 44 mil for 2 years and walk for virtually nothing or.......on and on and on......

 

that is why you don't compare us to the eagles. while i hate their fans (most) their front office doesn't  seem to let ego driven petty squabbles and spiteful vindictiveness dictate the teams future. only the redskins do that. because we are owned by a spoiled rotten little rich boy that got his penultimate plaything and employs the consummate yes man who bullies and denigrates anyone deemed a threat to his seat at the table. 

 

children, we are run by children.

[NickyJ]

If it isn't a winning season, the only way I call it a good year is if Bruce Allen gets fired.

 

Kirk isn't the hill I chose to die on regarding the FO. Firing our only legitimate GM in years with Scot McCloughan, and not even replacing him with someone else who's competent was it for me. Last year was their put up or shut up moment. We let both our 1k yard receivers walk, and trashed the rest. This is year #2 of Bruce at the wheel again, and I expect absolutely nothing to change about it, aggressive or not in FA.

[skins island connection]

17 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 I get branded as one of the bigger haters of the FO.  And heck I've posted plenty on it.  So I get why.   But oddly enough the macro points (not always the micro ones) I make about the FO often mirrors a lot of the FO defenders.  The FO defenders are often on the train of hey not everything they do is bad, they aren't a bunch of dopes, there is some good with the bad.  They deserve a break.  i actually agree with that except for the they deserve a break part.   IMO a so so operation isn't something I am going to feel good about.   And IMO the FO structure and how they handle things publicly make it a glass half empty feeling of so so.  I'd hope the pinnacle of Dan's reign isn't mediocrity with more of a politician versus a real personnel guy in charge.  

 

 

Its not a brand, its a badge of honor.

The FO that Bruce Allen reigns over has cost this team dearly. Refusing to actually reward the players who have given all they could by paying them more, lets them go to other teams and shrugs his shoulders, then pats Snyder on the back and tells him 'its ok, they're washed up'.

The KC thing was a huge hole in the FO's banner of accomplishment, but when both Garcon and Djax were let go at the same time, it proved there was no competence in the FO. At least let one of them go and keep one; replace the player with someone else and let him get a feel for things, then if needed they could let the other one go next year. No, just open the door and let them walk out. Brilliant.

 

Bruce has been this way forever; even in TB, he turned his back on vets who deserved a raise. So he's doing the same thing here. Whats gonna happen when one of our top defensive players wants to be paid more? Let him walk? If Kerrigan wants a raise, Bruce will open the door for him, just as he will for every other player. In the NFL, its hard to penny-pinch, even harder with good players, but if anyone believes Bruce will splurge on any current player, you're mistaken.

 

This season will be a slow developing nightmare. Alex smith isn't going to be some type of savior who leads the team to a 10+ win season; hec, 5 wins will be the plateau. He will need time to get accustomed to the offense, the plays, the field, and the large number of opponent's jerseys in the stands. By the time he gets this, the other players will be so frustrated at the FO for not getting players they will want to play elsewhere.

 

So, Bruce, please, collect those pennies, roll them up tightly, turn them sideways, and shove them straight up your candy-ass! Then take a long walk away from Redskins Park and never look back...

[Darrell Green Fan]

We were a game under .500 with the worst season of injuries most of us can ever remember. They made a lateral move at QB so I don't see a huge drop off.  If they find a RB and draft Vita Vea I can see them being .500 or with a little luck a game over.  But like it seems every year I consider that out of conference schedule pretty tough.  

[LightningBuggs]

11 hours ago, skinfan2k said:

I want to go 2-14 or 3-13.  Fire and clean house. I actually want the redskins to be the worst team in teh nfl for the next 2 years. 

 

This is where I'm at too.  I want it to implode. I want it to be so embarrassingly bad that it snaps something in Danny boy's brain and he finally "gets it", fires Brucey and hires an actual GM.  AND he lets him run the team the way he sees fit.

 

In my mind, that's the only way out of this spinning vortex.  Going 6-10, 7-9, 8-8 just gets the same treatment every offseason.  "We're only a couple of pieces away".  Blah, blah, blah. 

[skinny21]

43 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

We were a game under .500 with the worst season of injuries most of us can ever remember. They made a lateral move at QB so I don't see a huge drop off.  If they find a RB and draft Vita Vea I can see them being .500 or with a little luck a game over.  But like it seems every year I consider that out of conference schedule pretty tough.  

Generally, I agree, but... 1) we might lose 3 starters on defense, 2) we’ll have injuries this year - maybe fewer, but recent history says we’ll have a lot, and 3) even if you consider Cousins and Smith comparable, there’s likely a learning curve there.  Maybe Vea and a starting back make up those differences, but it’s gonna be tough, IMO.  

 

@skins island connection

To be fair, the FO has extended some key guys - Williams, Moses, Kerrigan, Reed, Thompson, Foster and Dunbar... but of course, we have no idea how much of that was due to Scot (probably not the last three obviously).  

 

For me (especially with hindsight, lol), losing Garçon and Jackson was frustrating, but I could see why they went with a leap of faith that Pryor, Doctson, Crowder and Reed (as well as the other guys) would be more than serviceable.  I’m actually not sure we could have extended our guys and kept Garçon or Jackson.  

 

Kind of besides the point though... Allen is not a good (de facto) GM and needs to be replaced.  

 

@DC Lumber Co. made the point that the FO has done some things right (such as personnel brought in via the draft, FA and in-season pickups) and they have coaches that have helped talent develop.  So, my long term hope is that they retain the coaches and scouts, but try to find a better regarded GM... even if that means Allen stays on board for the Harvest Festival.  

[Veryoldschool]

21 hours ago, pjfootballer said:

I'd love to have a Patriots type run, but I know that is really a once in a lifetime situation and is quite frankly not feasible in this day and age.  But, I wouldn't mind a Steelers type run, where you remain competitive with 10, 11, 12 win seasons, win a couple of SBs and be in the running year in and year out.

 

I won't enjoy 8-8.  Not good enough.

 

 

 

I want Scarlett Johansson.