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Game of Thrones Season 8


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Of course a lot of people loved the episode. It, like everything from the past two seasons, was lab engineered to appeal to fans who watch the show in crowded bars and don't know anyone's name outside of the main cast.

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@Momma There Goes That Man But it wasn’t really presented as a fantasy series.  It was presented as a human story with a fantasy element.  

 

For the first 4 or so seasons we rarely actually had any WW elements.  A few here and there.  The fantasy elements were mostly the dragons and some warging. It wasn’t really until Hardhome where the WW threat was really made real and that was season 5. Up to that point the biggest episodes in the show were almost entirely non fantasy related: Bran being pushed from a window setting the entire story in motion, Ned getting his head lopped off, Rob’s war, Blackwater, the battle at the wall, everything surrounding Joffrey’s death, Tyrion’s trial, Mountain and the Viper, even all the stuff Danny was doing over the sea was non-fantasy related until she used the dragons in the battle of the ****s episode in Mareen. 

 

There were some fantasy elements, however the first 4 seasons were mostly a regular story with s few magical elements.

 

We had Hardhome in season 5, and the dead basically disappeared until season 7. 

 

So I would argue the reason the show is so popular has little to do with the fantasy elements.  It’s mostly just a medieval drama with some magic and dragons. And that has mass appeal.

 

I can’t stand LOTR. But I love GOT.

 

And a good chunk of the viewing public aren’t fantasy folks, they like the good story of the families and the battle for the throne with a little magic and a dragon or two thrown in.  And now we can get back to that. Which I’m fine with.

 

For the true fantasy lovers, this is a disappointment and you’ll just have to Joel GRRM finishes the books to get a satisfying ending. 

 

 

Edited by Voice_of_Reason
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56 minutes ago, Bacon said:

Of course a lot of people loved the episode. It, like everything from the past two seasons, was lab engineered to appeal to fans who watch the show in crowded bars and don't know anyone's name outside of the main cast.

 

The last couple nights I watched some reaction compilation videos on YouTube showing people's reaction to the Arya/NK scene... Including reactions at a crowded bar.  I have to say, I appreciate the episode more after watching how people reacted to it.  Reminds me of reactions to plays like the Minneapolis Miracle.

 

So far, Arya may be the favorite to win GOT series MVP.  

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6 hours ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

I still have no idea what you actually wanted from this. We spent three episodes in Winterfell and had an hour and twenty minute battle with the Night King. Did you want a whole season of the Night King chasing Jon Snow and Bran?

 

I want payoff for plotlines and stories and mysteries and blatant flashing signs from the past 8 seasons. 

 

Yeah, we spent 3 episodes in winterfell, mostly talking about fighting an unstoppable force and then spending what sure a hell seemed like our final moments with these characters. The Long Night was so bad it also retroactively made episode 2 worse  because that feeling of dread and death hanging over the episode is outright laughable now. The characters and therefore we thought nothing was going to be the same. Not a one of them even died, it’s business as usual. 

 

But ignore the 2 Winterfell episodes. We spent an entire season with the main character trying to gather allies and find an ancient and mysterious mineral used to make weapons for the sole purpose of defeating an enemy that ultimately lasted a few hours. I’m not the one here that decided the WW were important. The show thought they were important and told us there were for 7 years until this season.

 

Melisandre who has been a pretty important character since she was introduced in season 2, has repeatedly for her entire time on the show referenced the prince that was promised and that persons role in defeating the long night. That is her sole purpose for existing in the storyline in the first place because she believed Stannis was this person. Arya fits none of the criteria we have been told would be this person. There are several that could but she is not one of them. An interesting storyline and buildup rendered completely useless. 

 

Bran was put on a mission in season 1. He was sought out by the 3ER for a specific reason. 7 seasons of buildup. And we still don’t know why the hell he wanted Bran or what the point of the 3ER even is. What is that person supposed to do or bring to the world? It was implied that it involved the WW and that bran had some importance to play but he didn’t add anything to the fight or their efforts to along the way. They seemed to be linked in some way. So what is his role and why is he important? Because he is the world’s memory? That’s a lame ass “let’s close the book on this and move the **** on” idea if I’ve ever seen one. Another storyline built up and dropped of a cliff. 

 

There are tons more examples of things like this including the WW themselves Things that we were told were important and would play a role later on or be explained or impact the characters and there was no payoff. We have just as many questions without then WW then we did before, only now we have no chance or hope of answering. 

 

Another one is Jon vs the NK. Sure it’s probably cliche but they should have had some type of interaction. The WW/NK are Jon’s story. Without him the world wouldn’t know or care, (those that do know anyway).  We were told that they would have some type of conclusion. You don’t film Hardhome with that chilling standoff and never pay it off. They did it again in Beyond the Wall at the frozen lake. We were shown and told that Jon and the NK had business. 

 

Arya has nothing to do with the NK or the WW. She just learned of them and has no interaction or even thoughts about them. That’s why her killing him is unearned. Doesn’t mean Jon has to be the one. He could have played a part. Maybe he battles the NK for a few minutes and then they get separated or he fights him to a standstill but distracts him long enough for Arya. Just to have Jon or Dany completely useless in this moment is bad story telling. It could have been a group effort but it wasn’t Arya’s moment to have. Had it been, they would have found a better way to do it than just deus ex machina her jumping thru the air.

 

Its a slap in the face to the story they’ve been telling for years. This show is just about “zomg awesome” twitter reactions now 

 

Edited by Momma There Goes That Man
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56 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

But it wasn’t really presented as a fantasy series.  It was presented as a human story with a fantasy element.  

 

For the first 4 or so seasons we rarely actually had any WW elements.  A few here and there.  The fantasy elements were mostly the dragons and some warging. It wasn’t really until Hardhome where the WW threat was really made real and that was season 5. Up to that point the biggest episodes in the show were almost entirely non fantasy related: Bran being pushed from a window setting the entire story in motion, Ned getting his head lopped off, Rob’s war, Blackwater, the battle at the wall, everything surrounding Joffrey’s death, Tyrion’s trial, Mountain and the Viper, even all the stuff Danny was doing over the sea was non-fantasy related until she used the dragons in the battle of the ****s episode in Mareen

 

I 100% understand what you are saying but there is still a lot of fantasy stuff in this show with the blatant telling that more is coming and that it’s incredible important. 

 

Season 1:

-WW opening scene

-Ned and Bran discuss WW after execution

-Old nan tells Bran stories of long night  

-It’s explained seasons last years soletikes

decades 

-Massive mythical direwolves 

-Hints from Benjen and NW about WW

-Jon and Tyrion discuss fantasy tales of world 

-Khal Drogo dies from a witches curse

-Dany hatches dragons from stone 

-Witch revives Drogo with blood magic 

-Dany births a monster

- Dany survives a fire and cannot burn

 

Season 2: 

-Melisandre gives birth to a shadow monster that murders and disappears 

-Implied that wildlings are uniting due to fear of WW

-Dragon glass found at fist of first men

-Crasters sons being sacrificed 

-WW attack fist of the first men, we finally see their massive army 

-More dragons

-Warlocks of Quarth can do all kinds of magic stuff

-Bran visions

-people can warg into animals 

-Giants exist  

 

thats just off the top of my head from The first two seasons. A living Fantasy world has always been the backdrop for the political drama that filled it and as I said, we were repeatedly told it was coming to a head and the nothing was more important. The long night was all that mattered from the opening minute. Until it turned into a “slightly inconvenient few hours in the north.”

Edited by Momma There Goes That Man
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Winterfell had so many defenses, the ring of fire, flaming swords of Dothraki, dragonglass everywhere poking from castle walls, timbered trenches etc. Everything failed, one by one. It was very exciting how the WW kept coming and coming. The Night King raising the dead and the people in the castle just stunned. The darkness ramped up the horror of the WW still coming on and defeating the defenses.

 

We saw a compressed battle that probably took most of the night. Killing the Night King was the only way to defeat the Dead. Arya was the perfect choice. The buildup of Jon facing off against the Night King was not going to happen because Jon was defeated at every turn. He was about to be blue flame roasted when Arya killed the Night King.

 

The Night King suffered from extreme hubris, thinking to kill Bran and the 3ER, then the rest of humanity in Winterfell and beyond. There would have been no stopping the Dead Army. 

 

Then we wouldn't have three more episodes. They could have ended Game of Thrones on Sunday.

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They could have had other payoff. Maybe Brienne or Jorah take out a WW in battle and than drops  dew thousand wights giving a moment of relief. 

 

But when you have the wights just run over every single person in this 70,000 plus person army and not a single main or important or popular character dies meanwhile the NK is one shotted out of nowhere, it cheapens the threat, the battle and the preceding 7 seasons 

53 minutes ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said:

Winterfell

 

Yeah the North is decimated and Dany’s army too. 

 

one would be forgiven for thinking 10 people were all that’s left at the end of this battle: Sam, Davos, Jon, Jaime, Arya, Brienne, Tormund, Dany, Greyworm, Bran and Pod since that’s all it showed. Those people pretty much took on the entire wight army by themselves after about 10 minutes 

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8 hours ago, Bacon said:

Of course a lot of people loved the episode. It, like everything from the past two seasons, was lab engineered to appeal to fans who watch the show in crowded bars and don't know anyone's name outside of the main cast.

Yes only dumb people could love that episode.  Same people **** about GoT and then go and watch Avengers or some Marvel ****. Hey, it’s the same

movie over and over. The good guys win.

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10 hours ago, max21 said:

Lmao, we’re all considered “book nerds” because we invested some time into that show. That ending was disappointing as hell, predictable and boring. Everyone I’ve talked to was disappointed in that episode, and pretty much I saw about 50/50 posts about people liking or disliking it. Reddit hated the episode. But we’re all book nerds so our opinion doesn’t matter 

LMAO! 

 

Yeah sure it was predictable. 

 

EVERYONE knew that Arya was going to kill the Night King...

 

The internet has pretty much always hated everything.  That's the nature of it.  And it's gotten way worse the past few decades as the internet and computers became mainstream.

 

It's impressive how much time some of you spend talking about things you don't like.  Time well spent.

Edited by purbeast
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Reddit hates everything. It's the reason Reddit exists. To hate stuff and organize Twitter attacks on black celebrities.

 

Also to the idea that no one important died, my wife was in literal hysterics over the deaths - especially Jorah. I briefly thought that I would have to turn the show off.

 

Finally, people talking about "fan servicing" are the same people who use the phrase "Clegane Bowl" unironically and have been fantasizing about Bran warging into a dragon and Tyrion being a Targaryan for literally a decade. It depends on who is being serviced, I suppose.

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9 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

They could have had other payoff. Maybe Brienne or Jorah take out a WW in battle and than drops  dew thousand wights giving a moment of relief. 

 

But when you have the wights just run over every single person in this 70,000 plus person army and not a single main or important or popular character dies meanwhile the NK is one shotted out of nowhere, it cheapens the threat, the battle and the preceding 7 seasons 

 

Yeah the North is decimated and Dany’s army too. 

 

one would be forgiven for thinking 10 people were all that’s left at the end of this battle: Sam, Davos, Jon, Jaime, Arya, Brienne, Tormund, Dany, Greyworm, Bran and Pod since that’s all it showed. Those people pretty much took on the entire wight army by themselves after about 10 minutes 

 The Lannister army has been in unending war for ten years. It was getting its ass kicked regularly by the Starks until the Red Wedding. It was damn near wiped out by Dany's dragons. It lost Casterly Rock (though I know that wasn't a full force). It's fought huge battles against the Tyrells and Stannis, in which its defense forces were wiped out. And every time we see it, it looks enormous and well equipped.

 

I honestly don't know how any Northern soldiers are left. They've been fighting for ten years. Robb's Army was either wiped out at the Red Wedding or defected. Robb killed all the defectors at the Battle of the ****s. All the Wildings are seemingly dead. The Night's Watch is gone. And then they just got over-run at Winterfell. But, somehow, they'll raise a force again.

 

In one episode, Yara and Theon stole the entire Iron Island Fleet. The gay pirate says no problem, we will use our resources of rocks and seawood to build an armada of 1,000 ships. A week later, he has 1,000 ships.

 

The Unsullied were 10,000 troops. They were basically beaten in that Civil War in that slave city until the dragons came along. They got trapped and starved at Casterly Rock. And now they've been over-run by ice Zombies. My guess is that on Sunday, there will be 10,000 Unsullied.

 

At the same time, three people from Dorne died and the Tyrells lost one battle. Both of those seemingly incredibly rich kingdoms now no longer exist.

 

I mean, if we want to get into military realism, how are any of these soldiers who keep magically reappearing are fed, clothed and supplied in a kingdom that was out of money in episode one, it's main backer was apparently out of gold, and has been in an endless 7-way civil war featuring two outside invasions in the last decade.

 

Like, is the tech sector doing that well in Westeros that it's keeping the entire economy afloat?

 

 

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12 hours ago, Nerm said:

 

The last couple nights I watched some reaction compilation videos on YouTube showing people's reaction to the Arya/NK scene... Including reactions at a crowded bar.  I have to say, I appreciate the episode more after watching how people reacted to it.  Reminds me of reactions to plays like the Minneapolis Miracle.

 

So far, Arya may be the favorite to win GOT series MVP.  

 

Been a long time since I’ve posted here but have been reading this thread intently as a big GoT fan. 

 

To clarify that bar scene where people erupted in cheers is a photoshop from the England World Cup games. It wasn’t a GoT watch party. 

 

I still love GoT but I side with those disappointed with the episode. It was underwhelming delivery of a major theme. Oh well. I’ll still watch. It just seemed to Hollywood everything ends up as the audience wants which seems to contradict the Martin approach where even characters you love may not survive. 

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57 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

 

Finally, people talking about "fan servicing" are the same people who use the phrase "Clegane Bowl" unironically and have been fantasizing about Bran warging into a dragon and Tyrion being a Targaryan for literally a decade. It depends on who is being serviced, I suppose.

Also the same people complained/complaining about "nothing happening" in previous seasons. Well, stuff's happening . . . but "it's not the stuff we wanted to happen". But if it does happen to be the stuff they wanted: "too predictable". If it's not the stuff they preconceived: "bad writing". 

 

Then, and I've asked several people these who didn't like it "What would you have wanted to happen?" Mostly silence. The few that are honest say, "Jon in a long sword fight vs NK". Is that predictable? "Yes, but that's what I think would be cool." ("Fan Service"). 

 

"But their battle plan was so stupid." Yes. Seems par for the course from a bunch of teenagers (early 20s). Davos is a smuggler, Jamie has no standing and a Lannister under suspicion, Tyrion's last two plans were duds. Jon is a brave moron. Varys is a spy. No military minds. They didn't want to deploy the dragons in case there was another WW spear chucker laying in wait. 

 

A lot of real world battle plans could've ended much differently based on a few key decisions. Take D-Day. If Hitler didn't have his mind set that the landing would be at Pas d'Calais they would've had more troops at Normandy. If aides had woken him up earlier that day, he may have mobilized the Panzer's just sitting inland that could've made life more difficult. Agincourt, the Mongol invasion of Japan (Kamikaze), Thermopylae, etc—all could've ended much differently.

Edited by Elessar78
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At least for me what would’ve made it better is not necessarily a different ending but more context as to why. How were they able to push the night king and WW back last time to even be able to build the biggest wall we’ve ever seen?

 

Why erasing history? What’s the backstory with 3ER and the Night King? What would happen if he did succeed in killing bran? They may still explain this one I hope. 

 

What I thought would’ve happened prior to this season was eventually a retreat from Winterfell back to Kings Landing where there would be a final stand and then a wrap up of the iron throne. 

Edited by hockeysc23
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27 minutes ago, hockeysc23 said:

 

 

Why erasing history? What’s the backstory with 3ER and the Night King? What would happen if he did succeed in killing bran? They may still explain this one I hope. 

 

 

 

NK as stated by Bran/Sam in S8E2(?) was that 3ER is the memory of humanity. The Children of the Forest created NK to eliminate Men. NK is programmed to erase all trace of humanity from Westeros/Planetos. Current living humans, their memory, and all the memories ever. "Reset to Factory Settings"

 

There's something poetic that, Arya, the agent of the Many-Face God/Death takes out the living embodiment of Death. Some double negative stuff. Negative minus a negative is a positive?

Edited by Elessar78
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22 minutes ago, Elessar78 said:

Then, and I've asked several people these who didn't like it "What would you have wanted to happen?" Mostly silence. The few that are honest say, "Jon in a long sword fight vs NK". Is that predictable? "Yes, but that's what I think would be cool." ("Fan Service"). 

 

Its not fan service to pay off some type of NK and Jon fight. That’s what we were told would happen with the way those previous encounters were written. He could have even been part of a group effort to take down the NK but to make Jon completely meaningless is a disservice to the story that we have been given to this point. I guess Frodo taking ring to the bottom of Mt Doom so Pip can show up out of nowhere and toss it into the fire at the last second would have been satisfying. Or in the Deathly Hallows when Harry is resurrected we just let him stand and scream at the snake while Ron kills Voldemort. That’s what this is equivalent to. 

 

Off the top of my head I actually would have liked liked to see them fight and end up separated maybe from a dragon fire blast that Jon can’t cross or something. Then they aren’t able to meet up again and the forces are defeated and have to retreat thru the crypts to fight another day.

 

They flee south thru the tunnels in the crypts maybe even to the iron islands since that was setup by Yara previously. Well, I should say under normal circumstances that would have been setup, in this case it was just a way to get Yara out of the story as quickly as possible. 

 

Thru regrouping you have the NK continue to March thru Westeros. You don’t have to show this. Just a few comments and ravens to Cersei or Jon getting updates. Meanwhile Bran becomes actually important and useful as he plunged into the pst and finds some way to incorporate the prophecy and TPTWP into the story. Maybe even have more conflict between Dany and Jon over this. The hero’s are forced to come to Cersei again and ask for help as one final stand. She sees the tattered remains of then army. The many deaths including major world altering characters. She declines. 

 

So now thru episode 4 we’ve established the WW as an incredible threat while still only spending one show/battle on them. But they wiped out most of the greatest army the world has ever seen and weren’t defeated in a few hours. So we’ve gotten payoff to their decade worth of buildup. 

 

We also have Bran serving a purpose to the greater story, conflict between Jon and Dany as well as a defeated Jon (never lost a battle so far) dealing his loss and inability to kill the NK. and we have a convergence of stories. The political intrigue of KL and the throne again takes place against the backdrop of humanity’s final desperate stand agains the WW. 

 

The Cersei conflict is dealt with likely thru Jaime or Tyrion or Arya because this is payoff for the things that have been setup for 8 seasons. The Hound assists and kills the Mountain. 

 

Then youve got one last battle as the WW meet the hero’s and the now assumed golden company at KL. They will use Brans help with his past information, Lightbringer to devise another strategy where they will attempt to kill the NK. A couple of WW are defeated in combat and thousands of wights drop. Somewhere along the way, the NK is ultimately defeated and the world is saved. Nearly all of Westeros fell to the long night but it did not last.

 

in the battle Jon or Dany are killed and you finish up the throne and politics of who rules and how and if anybody rules of it everybody just does their own thing etc since everybody is gone. 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Elessar78 said:

 

NK as stated by Bran/Sam in S8E2(?) was that 3ER is the memory of humanity. The Children of the Forest created NK to eliminate Men. NK is programmed to erase all trace of humanity from Westeros/Planetos. Current living humans, their memory, and all the memories ever. "Reset to Factory Settings"

 

This is a copout. The previous 3ER lived beyond the wall and was never bothered by the Nk. Are we to believe the Nk would never travel south if he wasn’t chasing Bran? The 3ER specifically requested Bran for unknown reasons when it seems all would have been fine had he just left Bran alone. 

 

You see the problems with the crappy reasoning the writers gave to the NK and how it fails any actual thought behind it, much less the actual story we’ve been told for 7 other seasons. It’s just a last minute retcon to shut people up 

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Said it before, will say it again.  Had no issue with the episode other than lighting.  If anything I blame the author for not finishing the books and giving the producers more to work with.  I'm far more interested in the Game of Thrones and what happens at Kings Landing.

 

I generally watch this stuff to be entertained, no parse through it and decide what I would have done better.  The only thing that is going to annoy me is if the ending is some happy thing where Jon and Dany jointly rule from Kings Landing, but decide the other kingdoms are all autonomous, Tyrion gets Casterly Rock, Sansa gets Winterfell, Gendry gets Storms End, overgrown boob-sucker gets the Eyrie, etc.

 

To hell with that noise.  Cersei said it best to Ned Stark in the first season.  In the Game of Thrones, you either win or you die.  Somebody needs to win, that is all I ask by the end of this.

 

 

And it should be Sam, because I also want to be right.

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Three 80 minute episodes of everyone vs. Cersei and Euron is boring. How is this going to work, and why does it need 3 long episodes?  

 

I still expect them to reveal that the Three Eyed Raven is the Lord of Light, and sending the visions in the flames brought everyone to exactly where they needed to be, like Bran alludes to Theon. But I thought that would happen at the end of the series and simultaneous to the NK situation being resolved. 

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1 hour ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

Its not fan service to pay off some type of NK and Jon fight. That’s what we were told would happen with the way those previous encounters were written. He could have even been part of a group effort to take down the NK but to make Jon completely meaningless is a disservice to the story that we have been given to this point. I guess Frodo taking ring to the bottom of Mt Doom so Pip can show up out of nowhere and toss it into the fire at the last second would have been satisfying. Or in the Deathly Hallows when Harry is resurrected we just let him stand and scream at the snake while Ron kills Voldemort. That’s what this is equivalent to. 

 

Off the top of my head I actually would have liked liked to see them fight and end up separated maybe from a dragon fire blast that Jon can’t cross or something. Then they aren’t able to meet up again and the forces are defeated and have to retreat thru the crypts to fight another day.

 

They flee south thru the tunnels in the crypts maybe even to the iron islands since that was setup by Yara previously. Well, I should say under normal circumstances that would have been setup, in this case it was just a way to get Yara out of the story as quickly as possible. 

 

Thru regrouping you have the NK continue to March thru Westeros. You don’t have to show this. Just a few comments and ravens to Cersei or Jon getting updates. Meanwhile Bran becomes actually important and useful as he plunged into the pst and finds some way to incorporate the prophecy and TPTWP into the story. Maybe even have more conflict between Dany and Jon over this. The hero’s are forced to come to Cersei again and ask for help as one final stand. She sees the tattered remains of then army. The many deaths including major world altering characters. She declines. 

 

So now thru episode 4 we’ve established the WW as an incredible threat while still only spending one show/battle on them. But they wiped out most of the greatest army the world has ever seen and weren’t defeated in a few hours. So we’ve gotten payoff to their decade worth of buildup. 

 

We also have Bran serving a purpose to the greater story, conflict between Jon and Dany as well as a defeated Jon (never lost a battle so far) dealing his loss and inability to kill the NK. and we have a convergence of stories. The political intrigue of KL and the throne again takes place against the backdrop of humanity’s final desperate stand agains the WW. 

 

 

 

So you're seeking credibility. But you want the zombies to win and replenish their forces with all the dead at Winterfell.....and then, I guess, have Arya stab the guy since there is no reasonable way to beat a gazillion ice zombies in a military setting.

 

The story ALWAYS ends with someone killing the Night King and everything being over. You just want two or three battles of zombies instead of one.

 

Also, they did defeat the greatest army the world has ever known. Rather easily.

 

I would also argue that Jon has never really won a battle.

 

The battle against the Wildings was lost until Stannis showed up.

The battle against to the Boltons was lost until Sansa showed up.

The battle against the WW was lost until Arya ninja'ed in.

 

It's almost as if there is a pattern here. Jon fights bravely and nobly....and it's just not enough until someone more vicious and resourceful arrives.

 

(I would also point out that your storyline has the WW pretty much wiping out all of Westeros before they are defeated, which is dark. In the end, the King/Queen of the Seven Kingdoms would be ruling an empty continent).

 

 

 

 

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