Voice_of_Reason

Game of Thrones Season 8

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54 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

I don't like a ton of Jon scenes, but I tend to like Jon/Sam scenes, because they often become this little domestic sit-com of the cool jock taking the fat nerd under his wing. The fact that the entire Jon/Sam meeting was 10 minutes of exposition about how Jon is really Prince Albert the 7th and the rightful heir to the Iron Throne, but that he was still actually a Stark because his mother was a Stark and not his father. And that he is true-born because some dude tied a rope around his parents in secret....that was a waste. I know it's "important." But I don't care.

 

 

I'm hoping this becomes more of a character issue for Jon vs just revolving around a rightful heir technicality, I don't care about that either. 

 

Jon's first reaction to the news was to be insulted that Sam essentially called Ned Stark a liar, if this is true. Jon doesn't seem to understand that some lies can be honorable. He admits to Cersei in the dragonpit scene that he bent the knee to Daenerys which was all risk and no reward. 

 

Ned Stark OTOH tells two major but honorable lies - one about Jon's parentage, and most importantly one to save his daughter - he makes a false confession about his 'crimes' right before his execution. Maybe Jon will end up having to do something similar. 

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Jon’s lineage is important for the poetry of the story. GRRM always wanted to subvert the traditional story, heroes and fantasy tropes but in the end, in a super roundabout way, we got our Aragorn in the end. I love it for the beauty of it. 

 

How it impacts the story, I’m not sure. Jon is duty bound. He didn’t want to be a leader. He didn’t want to be Lord Commander, treaty with the wildlings, take

back winterfell or be king in the north but he did all those things because duty propelled him. He is somewhat similar to Stannis in that way. Stannis always struck me as burdened by being king but did it simply because it was his duty as apparent heir. 

 

So this is a chance to introduce tension between Dany and Jon. Will Jon be bound by his duty? He left Ygritte, whom he loved, for his oath and duty. 

 

They are setting up a situation where Jon’s friend and family are not on board with Dany or her actions and Jon will

have to navigate those waters. That’s how this will impact him. It will be a character test and it will also be something that imo puts a nice symmetrical bow on the story. 

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Yea this is going to be all about Dannys willingness to give up the thrown, which she wont, and if Jon will confront her about it or not. One of them is going to have to grow. She will have to become submissive, or he will have to take that crown from her. One or the other. Or his family will fall into chaos. Its a good set up for someone to fall later. 

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6 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Yea this is going to be all about Dannys willingness to give up the thrown, which she wont, and if Jon will confront her about it or not. One of them is going to have to grow. She will have to become submissive, or he will have to take that crown from her. One or the other. Or his family will fall into chaos. Its a good set up for someone to fall later. 

It's going to be a hard sell. Yeah, Sam has some Maester's diary that no one knew about that could easily be put into question. The other thing is that this marriage was seen by Bran in a vision (that only he can see). Um, yeah. I'll believe that. Fat kid with an axe to grind and a cripple . . . I got 2 full grown dragons. 

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1 minute ago, Elessar78 said:

It's going to be a hard sell. Yeah, Sam has some Maester's diary that no one knew about that could easily be put into question. The other thing is that this marriage was seen by Bran in a vision (that only he can see). Um, yeah. I'll believe that. Fat kid with an axe to grind and a cripple . . . I got 2 full grown dragons. 

 

Right. And we already know how she settles arguments. And with Jons sisters already watching her so close she knows she doesn't have alot of friends. Dunno. Maybe she will try and burn Jon for his treason and he walks out of the flame like a G. I would very much like to see that, actually. I could see that causing her to bend the knee at that point. Or even better, the blue dragon tries to burn him to the ground and it doesnt work. Dunno, but thats the only way I see this resolving in a "happy" way. 

 

I also suspect his "re-life" thing hes got going on will had some suspicion as well. Multiple people mentioned it last episode. 

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Targaryens aren’t immune to fire and heat, that’s a trait exclusive to Dany. Jon already burned his hand on the lamp killing the wights that were trying to kill Jeor Mormont at castle black. 

 

It might be a hard sell believing Bran but he could easily prove this by talking about details of Dany’s time in Essos or at Dragonstone that only she would know. 

 

Or thats why many suspect Ned had something of Rhaegar’s that was left at the at the Tower of Joy included in Lyanna’s tomb. It could be a song or letter he wrote or what many believe is his harp. Ned wouldn’t have done that with something honoring the man that kidnapped raped and killed his sister. Plus, Dany was told how much Rhaegar loved his harp by Barriston Selmy In season 5. 

 

Another opportunity is if that they could encounter Howland Reed, Meera’s dad who was with Ned at the Tower of Joy and could verify this story. 

 

 

Edited by Momma There Goes That Man
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6 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Ah ok well I guess that fire thing wont happen. I forgot all about both of those things 

 

Don't give up too quick, Jon being brought back might have changed things.

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11 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

They are setting up a situation where Jon’s friend and family are not on board with Dany or her actions and Jon will

have to navigate those waters. That’s how this will impact him. It will be a character test and it will also be something that imo puts a nice symmetrical bow on the story. 

 

That would all be cool if Jon didn't suck.

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

Ah ok well I guess that fire thing wont happen. I forgot all about both of those things 

 

I apparently forgot the entirely of Season 4. It happens.

 

 

Edited by Lombardi's_kid_brother

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4 hours ago, purbeast said:

Yeah and her brother died due to the "golden helmet" that melted his head to death.

Dany could give me the "golden helmet"

 

giphy.gif

Edited by Elessar78
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Ok, so a few thoughts on the premiere and things to come.

 

1.  I loved the new opening credits.  They were always cool, but they had gotten a little repetitive/stale after 7 seasons.  I like what they have done which is essentially a march south from the wall, mirroring the Night King's path south. 

 

2.  The opening sequence with the call back to Rob's entrance into Winterfell back in season 1 was great, complete with Arya not being present because she was stalking around elsewhere.  I just loved all of it. I loved the looks Danny gave when the dragons flew over. I loved the looks on the faces of all of the folks who have never seen a dragon when they first see the dragons. 

 

2. In the great hall, and it's possible I'm in the minority, but I don't mind Sansa and the other northern lords and ladies being salty that they elected Jon Snow king, he went away, and came back not a king and with a queen.  Danny claims to be the rightful heir to the Iron Throne.  And that's all well and good EXCEPT her father was overthrone and the monarchy was transitioned to another line. I'm honestly not sure WHO is the rightful successor to Fat King Robert. He had no children (and the ones he thought he had are dead anyway.  Both his brothers are dead. Cercei basically took the throne because she could.  Maybe Gendry actually has a strong claim to the throne?  Not really sure.  BUT, honestly, the Targarians (Danny and Jon) really don't have any claim.  They were defeated.    So they have just as much of a right to the throne as anybody who wants to try and overthrow the king. 

 

3. A lot of people are worried that Sansa is just going to be extremely catty and petty towards Danny.  I think she OWNED this episode.  She was practical at the head table, asking how they were going to feed the world's largest army, and what dragon's eat.  I think Danny's response of "whatever they want to" was a bit snarky for no particular reason. When she meets Tyrion, she scoffs at him believing Cercei, and tells him "I used to think you were the cleverest man." She's justifiably upset Jon gave up his crown, and concerned how they are going to keep all the bannermen together.  I forgive her for being a bit petulant.  

 

4. I'm done with dumb Tyrion.  If Tyrion is just going to make eunuch jokes and be wrong, then he no longer "drinks wine and knows things" and he is a waste of space and I wouldn't mind seeing him go.  I'd prefer a return to smart Tyrion.  I don't understand why the show has made him stupid.  He KNOWS better than to trust Cercei.  And Jamie is going to show up and prove him a fool again.  I'm so done wit this.  

 

5. I really hope we don't see Yara again, and Theon dies in some heroic way soon so we cane be done with the Greyjoy family altogether. Though, if I had to choose between them, I'd prefer to have Yara around.  I didn't care that the rescue was way too easy.  It was short, checked the box, and was done with. 

 

6. I actually really liked the whole sequence leading up to the reveal of Jon's parents.  The scene with Danny and Sam was great.  I had actually forgotten Danny executed Randal and Dickon until she basically said, "wait, Tarley?"  Jonathan Bradley acted it superbly, and I think Emelia did an outstanding job as well.  Then the scene with Jon was outstanding.  I liked the way Jon reacted, which is calling into question why Ned, the most honorable person he knew, would lie to him his entire life.

 

7.  I really don't think there's going to be a big rift between Jon and Danny about the reveal of who he is.  I don't think she's going to care about screwing her nephew, she grew up thinking she was going to marry her brother.  I don't think Jon's going to really want to take the throne. I also don't think Jon's going to care that much about screwing his Aunt.  They didn't grow up together, had no idea when they fell in love, so I don't think it's going to be a thing between them. Also, as I mentioned before, neither one really has a claim to the iron throne since the Targarian dynasty was overthrown.  So Danny's claim is best  because armies and dragons.  Mostly dragons.  

 

HOWEVER, it's going to be a HUGE thing with the other Northern Lords and Ladies.  Lady Mormont is going to have an issue with it.  Lord Royce might as well.  

 

Which is going to mean that Sansa and Arya are going to essentially be the linchpins to the entire operation.  If they have a problem with it, the whole thing falls apart.  If they don't, they can bridge the gap.  And that fact is why I think they played the Sansa/Danny relationship the way they did.  

 

I'm very much looking forward to seeing how Arya and Sansa react to the reveal Jon is not a Stark.  Though, through blood lines, he's half a Stark.  And he was raised a Stark.  Which should matter.

 

8. Let's talk about the Bran Bot 9000.  (Compliments to James Hibberd of EW for that nickname.). i get that he's now the 3 eyed raven and not a person, but damn if he isn't creepy.  I'm very much looking forward to his interaction with Jamie, since he made a point to go out and "greet" him.  Jamie keeping his head is going to require a pretty deft hand from somebody, and I think Bran is going to (shockingly) do what is needed to keep him alive so he can perform some service.  Everybody is going to want to kill Jamie.  He killed Danny's father.  He fought Ned in the streets. He's been the top general in Cercei's army.  He is, in fact, probably the second most hated person in the north next to Cercei (Night King aside.) 

 

Also, let's not forget the Rober's Rebelion was built on a lie.  Unless I'm mistaken, the match that lit the powder keg was the rumor Rhaggar kidnapped and raped Lyanna.  This didn't happen.  If that hadn't happened, would all the subsequent events leading to Robert's rebbellion taken place, and would the Targarians still have the throne?  

 

Jamie has a friend in Brienne.  But that's not going to save his head.  So I think Bran is going to have to do SOMETHING to save Jamie so he can die in the right way.  My hope is that he foresees Jamie killing Cercei, (the valonqar theory).  I kinda want Arya to kill Cercei though.  That would be a tough one...

 

9. Jon has now ridden 2 dragons.  I wonder which ride he enjoyed more?  The dragon ride sequence seemed fun, if not a little self indulgent by the show runners.  

 

10. I enjoyed playful, in-love Danny. Since the moment we met her, she has been in some serious circumstance. Either sold like a slave, the wife of Drogo, the trek to Mareen with all it's ins and outs, a queen and a conqueror.  She had a few moment in this episode where she was just a young lady in love, and that was kinda nice to see, in contract to all the other stuff she has to do/has done.

 

Anyway, those are my episode 1 thoughts.  I really liked the episode.  The things people are picking on I apparently don't care as much about.  

 

PS: Where is Ghost?  Are we ever going to see him again? PROTECT GHOST. (shout out to Malory Rubin.)

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17 hours ago, TK said:

#FootballIsComing

That might have been the best thing the Redskins have produced since 2012...

 

I hope they got the rights from HBO, it would be so Redskins to be sued for some type of a copyright violation... :)

 

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53 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

That might have been the best thing the Redskins have produced since 2012...

 

I hope they got the rights from HBO, it would be so Redskins to be sued for some type of a copyright violation... :)

 

I've seen one for the Texans and one for the Falcons (best one) as well. Might be a league thing?

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1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

9. Jon has now ridden 2 dragons.  I wonder which ride he enjoyed more?  The dragon ride sequence seemed fun, if not a little self indulgent by the show runners.  

 

 

 

When did Jon ride a dragon before this episode? Unless this is code for something else and listening to the Mueller report analysis is frying my brain. 

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19 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

2. In the great hall, and it's possible I'm in the minority, but I don't mind Sansa and the other northern lords and ladies being salty that they elected Jon Snow king, he went away, and came back not a king and with a queen.  Danny claims to be the rightful heir to the Iron Throne.  And that's all well and good EXCEPT her father was overthrone and the monarchy was transitioned to another line. I'm honestly not sure WHO is the rightful successor to Fat King Robert. He had no children (and the ones he thought he had are dead anyway.  Both his brothers are dead. Cercei basically took the throne because she could.  Maybe Gendry actually has a strong claim to the throne?  Not really sure.  BUT, honestly, the Targarians (Danny and Jon) really don't have any claim.  They were defeated.    So they have just as much of a right to the throne as anybody who wants to try and overthrow the king. 

 

Random thought I just had as pertains to succession from Robert Baratheon.  It's established in both the show that a king can legitimize ****s.  So lets say Dany dies somehow (I don't think this is likely, but with GoT you never know).  Jon has made clear he has no desire to rule, but he would be a king in theory.  Jon could then legitimize Gendry (Robert's only known remaining **** after Cersei had the others purged way back when), abdicate the throne, and Gendry as the then only legitimate Baratheon, could be elevated.  Again, don't think this is likely, just spitballing.

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22 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

Jamie has a friend in Brienne.  But that's not going to save his head.  So I think Bran is going to have to do SOMETHING to save Jamie so he can die in the right way.  

 

 

 

Bran will go in the past and explain that Jaime killed Dany's father because he was about to destroy King's Landing with wildfire. 

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Or Arya could take Dany's face then marry Gendry.....and maybe sleep with her cousin.

 

after allImage result for Arya+kill em all

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, Hersh said:

 

When did Jon ride a dragon before this episode? Unless this is code for something else and listening to the Mueller report analysis is frying my brain. 

Image result for Game of Thrones Boat Sex

2 hours ago, HooHog said:

Random thought I just had as pertains to succession from Robert Baratheon.  It's established in both the show that a king can legitimize ****s.  So lets say Dany dies somehow (I don't think this is likely, but with GoT you never know).  Jon has made clear he has no desire to rule, but he would be a king in theory.  Jon could then legitimize Gendry (Robert's only known remaining **** after Cersei had the others purged way back when), abdicate the throne, and Gendry as the then only legitimate Baratheon, could be elevated.  Again, don't think this is likely, just spitballing.

It's possible though unlikely.  I think Danny has the strongest claim to the throne because dragons and armies.  I think if she dies and Jon survives (I find this unlikely), then Jon probably has dragon(s) and armies and is the defacto king.  Unless he said "*** it.  And if he does, I doubt it's Gendry he places, more likely it's Sansa.  

 

I don't think anybody really see Robert's line as "legitimate" even though IT IS the legitimate line, because he won the rebellion, was king, and the line starts over.  That said, Cercei being Queen isn't following any real succession line I can think of, except "I blew stuff up, who's going to stop me." So it's basically a free-for-all.  Hell, if I was the Gold Company, I'd tell Cercei to go screw herself and try and take the throne myself.  Because why the **** not?   

 

 

21 hours ago, Yohan said:

I've seen one for the Texans and one for the Falcons (best one) as well. Might be a league thing?

I'm sure it's a league wide thing, and I'm sure somebody thought about getting the rights.  I'm also sure if there was ONE team that would screw that up, it's the one that plays in formerly Raljon MD.

4 minutes ago, PF Chang said:

 

Bran will go in the past and explain that Jaime killed Dany's father because he was about to destroy King's Landing with wildfire. 

Yeah, and what's to keep Danny from saying, "why should I trust Bran-Bot 9000?" OFF WITH HIS HEAD.  Actually, Drogon needs a snack..." 

 

I think it's more than that.  I think it's Bran sees a vision of what Jamie needs to do in the future against the Night King which keeps him alive.  What that is, I have no idea.  But it's the only reason I can think he walks out of the meeting with Jon, Danny, and presumably about 50 other folks who want to kill him, alive.  

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