Voice_of_Reason

Game of Thrones Season 8

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As a quasi-GOT fan I didn't hate the the final season/episode as much as some but I still have a difficult time reconciling Khaleesi's morph into Madness seemingly on a dime and for no reason, but what made it even worse was the convoluted explanation she gave to Jon Snow in the finale.  It just took a bad situation and made it comically ridiculous.  

 

I figured a much more simple way to explain her actions would be that she could not mentally get over the fact that everyone would view Jon Snow as the rightful King despite his best efforts to convince them otherwise and Khaleesi's best effort to be a good ruler so it caused her to make a snap decision that Kings Landing needed to "start over anew" or something like that.  What we got really felt like a non-explanation-explanation and just an easy justification for Jon Snow to dagger her up. 

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As someone who didn't read the book and who binged on the show the last 1-2 years, I have to say the biggest problem with the show, at least for me, was the sheer amount of characters and storylines. There were so many it was hard to keep up. Often you would be introduced to a new character with no context or explanation whatsoever. Maybe not a problem for some, but for me it was a bit perplexing and frustrating. I'm the type of person that likes to always know exactly what is going on.  Small complaint.  Whoever said the cinematography was great was spot on. Really fantastic shots and stage propping the entire show.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

As a quasi-GOT fan I didn't hate the the final season/episode as much as some but I still have a difficult time reconciling Khaleesi's morph into Madness seemingly on a dime and for no reason, but what made it even worse was the convoluted explanation she gave to Jon Snow in the finale.  It just took a bad situation and made it comically ridiculous.  

 

I figured a much more simple way to explain her actions would be that she could not mentally get over the fact that everyone would view Jon Snow as the rightful King despite his best efforts to convince them otherwise and Khaleesi's best effort to be a good ruler so it caused her to make a snap decision that Kings Landing needed to "start over anew" or something like that.  What we got really felt like a non-explanation-explanation and just an easy justification for Jon Snow to dagger her up. 

Yeah, the explanation was a bit different than I expected.  On the other hand, it's possible she's lying to herself about why she did it.  I thought it was interesting how sad she looked at times when Tyrion resigned as Hand (such a great moment and the pin going down the stairs like that....wow) and the times Jon was disagreeing with her.   She was clearly still very emotionally vulnerable and desperate in some ways.

Edited by visionary

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22 minutes ago, Epochalypse said:

I think you're misinterpreting Jon's future.

 

He was sentenced to the Night's Watch, not sentenced be a wildling.  I doubt Jon's honor would allow him to buck that.

 

As I saw it, him going north of the wall was just as an escort to return the wildlings to their home.  The Night's Watch routinely patrolled north of the wall.  I don't think Jon had any intention of remaining there; he was going to serve the Night's Watch as he was expected to.  That's why he told Arya she could visit him at Castle Black, because that was where he intended to be.

 

Just my opinion.

I don’t think that at all, when the gate closed and he looked back at it it seemed to me like he was never returning back to castle black or beyond their at all. It was a fitting end to his story of him going to live with his best friend and dog and the people he saved in the true north. It was just crazy to think about how much he has been through just to go back there, but I think that’s where he is happiest. 

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7 minutes ago, abdcskins said:

As someone who didn't read the book and who binged on the show the last 1-2 years, I have to say the biggest problem with the show, at least for me, was the sheer amount of characters and storylines. There were so many it was hard to keep up. Often you would be introduced to a new character with no context or explanation whatsoever. Maybe not a problem for some, but for me it was a bit perplexing and frustrating. I'm the type of person that likes to always know exactly what is going on.  Small complaint.  Whoever said the cinematography was great was spot on. Really fantastic shots and stage propping the entire show.

Oh man.  They cut so many characters from the books, especially the later books.   Show only fans would have fallen asleep or gone crazy halfway through the show if they hadn't though.  It's sad that we lost a lot of interesting characters and some cool moments, but that's the difference between books and television.  

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6 minutes ago, max21 said:

I don’t think that at all, when the gate closed and he looked back at it it seemed to me like he was never returning back to castle black or beyond their at all. It was a fitting end to his story of him going to live with his best friend and dog and the people he saved in the true north. It was just crazy to think about how much he has been through just to go back there, but I think that’s where he is happiest. 

I think the disconnect we have is that you are looking for the "happy Jon" ending.  Nothing about Jon's character suggests he gets a happy ending.  He is every bit Ned's "son" even if not by birth.

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4 minutes ago, visionary said:

Yeah, the explanation was a bit different than I expected.  On the other hand, it's possible she's lying to herself about why she did it.

That's because Bran took control of Drogon to burn KL, and Dany couldn't do anything about it. Then after Jon gave Dany the dagger (not the one she wanted) Bran took control of Drogon again and got rid of the Iron Throne (it wasn't wheel chair accessible). This is why Bran said he was in KL when Tyrion nominated him King and why he told Jon, Jon was where he needed to be. This was Brans long game, he knew from season 1 he never had a shot at running Winterfel, so he got himself pushed out the window, go on some crazy journey, miss an entire season, get some sympathy and became ruler. (That's my story, and I am sticking to it.)

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Epochalypse said:

I think the disconnect we have is that you are looking for the "happy Jon" ending.  Nothing about Jon's character suggests he gets a happy ending.  He is every bit Ned's "son" even if not by birth.

Yeah to each their own I guess but I feel like Jon did get a happy ending, at first I didn’t. He never wanted to be king, and never liked the politics he always just wanted to help people survive. When Tormund left winterfell he told Jon it’s where he belongs and Ghost and him would be Happier if he was there and Jon said he wishes he could. He sort of smiled as he was riding his horse beyond the wall with his dog next to him like “oh this isn’t so bad”. I’m not sure what you mean by he’s “Ned’s son” because that’s exactly what he is, he could have chose to be the Targaryen king of Westeros but decided to essentially stick to his roots as a Stark. Just my opinion 

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21 minutes ago, visionary said:

 I thought it was interesting how sad she looked at times when Tyrion resigned as Hand (such a great moment and the pin going down the stairs like that....wow) and the times Jon was disagreeing with her.   She was clearly still very emotionally vulnerable and desperate in some ways.

 

I agree with with all of that, but at the same time that entire situation to me is something that is potentially very story-rich and layered and should take place over at least a full season.  The way it was just crammed into a single episode in order to just get to a resolution? Eh.....

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24 minutes ago, visionary said:

Oh man.  They cut so many characters from the books, especially the later books.   Show only fans would have fallen asleep or gone crazy halfway through the show if they hadn't though.  It's sad that we lost a lot of interesting characters and some cool moments, but that's the difference between books and television.  

 

This was one of the things I loved. They introduced characters and didn't need to give them introductions or backstories. We should have either already picked it up through the previous dialogue or we will soon learn. For example, Stannis just pops up in the first episode of season 2 but we knew a good bit about him just by how he was talked about in season 1. 

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9 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

I agree with with all of that, but at the same time that entire situation to me is something that is potentially very story-rich and layered and should take place over at least a full season.  The way it was just crammed into a single episode in order to just get to a resolution? Eh.....

 

I'm actually pretty satisfied with the story beats for the most part I just think the execution was poor and getting to this point was a disaster. 

 

One glaring example to me is Jon. I'm ok with Jon's story concluding with him running off north of the wall and essentially leaving this world behind. He's always been an outsider and that was a place where he felt like he belonged. The problem is that he didn't have any agency in it. As the rightful "king" he should have chosen to go here on his own, leaving the realm in a better place behind him. But he gets sentenced there instead which weakens the impact of him going there. Even after he kills Dany he asks if what he did was right. He should know, take ownership take agency over his actions and understand he did the right thing. 

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If Jon's story was about hard choices and being a true hero, which I think it was, his choices ultimately lose some of their meaning when he doesn't have the same level of agency in making them that he should.

 

His story is the true hero, he continually made the hard choice and sacrifices for the greater good. He lost the two women that he loved, his claim as king, he literally died once, he lost all of his family, and now lives a life of poverty and exile all to save lives and make a better world. The fact he had to be talked into killing Dany weakens that a bit imo. I guess it can go either way on being sentenced to the wall or choosing to go. That his reward for all of this is being sentenced to the wall is poetic too, I think I'd just prefer him making one last sacrifice and making that decision on his own. 

 

 

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I didn’t like that Jon was shafted by the others, but his story was always one of sacrifice with little reward.  He walked away from all the bull**** in the end.  His ending fit.

 

The endings that felt forced and wrong imo were those given to Arya and Bran.  I felt like they shoe horned Bran into the throne because they really just had no idea what to do with him.  Clearly he was meant to play a role because of the entire three eyed pigeon thing, but until the last episode he had done essentially nothing at all.  This is the best the writers could come up with, which is a disappointing. 

 

Arya was death itself.  The mortal agent of the many faced god.  The balancer of scales that was prepared and set into motion.  She came down like the judgement of an angry god on the Freys, Meryn Trant, and Polliver.  That was pure bloody vengeance.  She cut Littlefingers throat with as much emotion as you’d see in someone swatting a fly.  She even scared Sansa.  Then in season 8 she turned into a different character.  She killed the night king, sure, but she was a girl in search of her own happiness.  A girl who in the end is content to go exploring.  It just doesn’t fit.  

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Destino said:

Arya was death itself.  The mortal agent of the many faced god.  The balancer of scales that was prepared and set into motion.  She came down like the judgement of an angry god on the Freys, Meryn Trant, and Polliver.  That was pure bloody vengeance.  She cut Littlefingers throat with as much emotion as you’d see in someone swatting a fly.  She even scared Sansa.  Then in season 8 she turned into a different character.  She killed the night king, sure, but she was a girl in search of her own happiness.  A girl who in the end is content to go exploring.  It just doesn’t fit.  

 

She should have been Westeros' Batman. She pulls up a hood and rides off on her white horse never to be seen again. We don't know where she may be or what face she may have on...but if you try to rape, murder or steal...just be careful because justice may be near and it may be looking for you.

 

(walker texas ranger theme plays)

 

I'm only 28.5% serious

Edited by Momma There Goes That Man

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How did Dany's decimated unsullied army regroup and end up being enormous again? Why was it so easy to burn down KL with one dragon with multiple scorpions shooting at it? What was the point of Arya going to KL to kill Cersei if she didn't come face to face with her? I'm assuming Jon told everyone he killed Dany...what was the point of that? He totally could have been like 'lol idk, she left on Drogon pissed off' and no one would know better

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1 minute ago, Barry.Randolphe said:

Jon told everyone he killed Dany...what was the point of that? He totally could have been like 'lol idk, she left on Drogon pissed off' and no one would know better

 

There is no world where Jon doesn't immediately walk out of the room and tell Grey Worm,

 

"Ah killed mah qween!"

 

He owned it which is pretty in character for him. 

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Posted (edited)

A couple of these are a stretch, but some interesting details

 

Edited by visionary

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7 minutes ago, Destino said:

I didn’t like that Jon was shafted by the others, but his story was always one of sacrifice with little reward.  He walked away from all the bull**** in the end.  His ending fit.

 

I agree just as with so much, getting there was botched. We really should have spent a lot more time with Jon under a character study. He should have seen how he felt about being Aegon, what that meant telling his family, their reactions, how he felt about Dany both before and after KL. We never really got to spend time with him so things feel flat and we are left to connect the dots and motivations ourselves. 

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2 minutes ago, Barry.Randolphe said:

How did Dany's decimated unsullied army regroup and end up being enormous again?

 

I agree with everything you posted, but this in particular. In the final scenes it seemed like there were many thousands of them. Didn't make sense.

 

I totally would've been okay with the White Walkers murdering everyone and taking control of the kingdom. Totally. Would've been a better ending and one of least predictable in the history of television. 

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12 minutes ago, Barry.Randolphe said:

How did Dany's decimated unsullied army regroup and end up being enormous again? Why was it so easy to burn down KL with one dragon with multiple scorpions shooting at it? What was the point of Arya going to KL to kill Cersei if she didn't come face to face with her? I'm assuming Jon told everyone he killed Dany...what was the point of that? He totally could have been like 'lol idk, she left on Drogon pissed off' and no one would know better

 

They had children that.... oh wait nevermind.  So that raises a question, how is it they these guys are all strong and in-shape, trained killers?  Everyone knows from a biological standpoint that once your beans are removed your testosterone levels plummet and you start to look like Varyes.  Unless there was an HGH/sythetic testosterone tree somewhere, makes no sense.

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Just now, kfrankie said:

Everyone knows from a biological standpoint that once your beans are removed your testosterone levels plummet and you start to look like Varyes.  Unless there was an HGH/sythetic testosterone tree somewhere, makes no sense.

 

Does everyone know this? 

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2 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

Does everyone know this? 

 

Maybe not the writers.  

 

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I think the major end points will be the same in the books, which is why the actual events seem plausible but lack development. 

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19 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

There is no world where Jon doesn't immediately walk out of the room and tell Grey Worm,

 

"Ah killed mah qween!"

 

He owned it which is pretty in character for him. 

 

There is also no world in which Worm was slicing throats of men in the streets on his queen's command, but decides to let his queen's killer walk

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