visionary Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Gamebreaker said: Just bad storytelling when you have to explain that in interviews or behind the scenes stuff after the episode. I think they mentioned it during last episode in the war council. They didn't explain how they had survived though. It would have been nice to mention in episode 3 that some troops were elsewhere or say something in episode 4 about how they survived. Edited May 13, 2019 by visionary 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 33 minutes ago, visionary said: While I think they could have done some things better with Dany. I’m not sure there was a better way to end Jamie and Cersei, other than having him not die and go back to Brienne. If he’s going to die with Cersei as I assume his ending was planned, is it better for him to die angrily strangling the (pregnant) woman he’s loved (possibly while ranting out names of people he thinks/knows she’s slept with, as he did throughout the last book) most of his life, or to die holding her in his arms and in some sort of peace? Yeah. I think Jaime/Brienne/Cersei saga was the best done plot point in season 8. Kinda makes the whole Valonquar thing a throwaway, but that's not a big deal imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 18 minutes ago, visionary said: Yeah, I think a couple of more episodes might have helped, although I see people talk about they should have had more seasons and I think that would have been hard to do without risking losing important cast members. Last season and this season have needed about six more episodes to slow the place and give more time to flesh out some of these ideas. MTGTM clearly needed to see The Night King kill everyone at Last Hearth in order to have sufficient closure there. One episode where Dany has just had it up to here with the grubby small folk and another where some lord kind of insults her would have been helpful. Maybe a real plot on behalf of Jon (that Jon had nothing to do with of course). Why did they make this last season so short any way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 (edited) So Dany going mad execution aside, I noticed a few of things I had kind of forgotten in this article. And I think they kind of go against the whole 'Dany wouldn't kill innocents' argument. https://ew.com/tv/2019/05/13/game-of-thrones-daenerys-mad-queen/ Quote Revenge for Ser Barristan. Also in season 4, after Ser Barristan was killed by the terror group Sons of the Harpy. In response, Dany brings three masters to her dragonpit. All swear they have nothing to do with the rogue group. She burns one of them alive to send a message to the others. Was the man guilty? Innocent? We don’t know and Dany didn’t seem to mind not knowing. The Mass Burning: In season 6 in Vaes Dothrak, as punishment for taking her prisoner and refusing her demands, Dany burns all the khals alive and has the remaining Dothraki promise — echoing Khal Drogo in season 1 — that they’ll “kill my enemies in their iron suits and tear down their stone houses.” Meereen Revenge Plan: Also in season 6, Dany returns to Meereen and finds the city under attack from the slave cities. This is her first instinct: “I will crucify the masters. I will set their fleets afire. I will kill every last one of their soldiers and return their cities to the dirt. That’s my plan.” Tyrion talks her out of it. Edited May 13, 2019 by visionary 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: Last season and this season have needed about six more episodes to slow the place and give more time to flesh out some of these ideas. MTGTM clearly needed to see The Night King kill everyone at Last Hearth in order to have sufficient closure there. One episode where Dany has just had it up to here with the grubby small folk and another where some lord kind of insults her would have been helpful. Maybe a real plot on behalf of Jon (that Jon had nothing to do with of course). Why did they make this last season so short any way? It's only an episode short given the length of the last few episodes are a lot longer than normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, bearrock said: Yeah. I think Jaime/Brienne/Cersei saga was the best done plot point in season 8. Kinda makes the whole Valonquar thing a throwaway, but that's not a big deal imo. I was somewhat annoyed that Jamie left Winterfell, but the minute he saw Cersei, I was all in on that. His love for her is his fatal flaw. I could have done without his fight with the gay pirate, but I could have down without the entire gay pirate storyline. You know, Dorne has really come out of this smelling like a rose. Total Casualties for the north: 500,000 Total Casualties for the Lannisters: 350,000 Total Casualties for all Barratheon armies: 400,000 Total Casualties for the Dothraki: 22,000 Total Casualties for the Unsullied: 8,000 Total Casualties for the Iron Born: 100,000 and that many ships Total Casualties for the Tyrells: 150,000 Total Casualties for the King's Landing: 400,000 Total Casualties in the Riverlands: 25,000 Total Casualties for Dorne: 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, visionary said: So Dany going mad execution aside, I noticed a few of things I had kind of forgotten in this article. And I think they kind of go against the whole 'Dany wouldn't kill innocents' argument. https://ew.com/tv/2019/05/13/game-of-thrones-daenerys-mad-queen/ There was still a quantum leap to killing every innocent person in the city that's been under the rule of a tyrant queen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Hot Pie, Ser Pounce and I are moving to Dorne and opening a casual dining experience, man. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Hersh said: There was still a quantum leap to killing every innocent person in the city that's been under the rule of a tyrant queen. Fair, but if she were really going to tear down houses of her enemies and turn their cities to dirt...a lot of innocent people were going to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 @JoeJacobyHOForRIOT I think you’re close to what will happen. What color eyes does Drogon have anyway? But yes, I bet she puts Jon to death and he reveals his true identity to those in view and he may not survive dragon fire but I bet Arya gets her before he dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Just now, JamesMadisonSkins said: @JoeJacobyHOForRIOT I think you’re close to what will happen. What color eyes does Drogon have anyway? But yes, I bet she puts Jon to death and he reveals his true identity to those in view and he may not survive dragon fire but I bet Arya gets her before he dies. But is he immune to fire though? I thought their were reasons to believe otherwise. Anyway, I am a little worried about what happens to all those Unsullied and Dothraki if Dany bites it. I also hope she doesn't end up killing Arya or Sansa. Gah, it's crazy thinking how far the show has come. So many things happened that I wondered if we'd ever see. ' I wasn't even sure Jamie and Brienne would make it very far after that last couple of books. Wasn't sure Jon would come back. Wasn't sure Dany would even reach Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 I'm almost done. I've said all along that if this show ends with some schmuck city on the Iron Throne, it's a total failure. In that way, I actually like the poetic nature of Dany literally burning the capital to the ground after an endless war that saw most of the noble houses wiped out, the wall come down, and foreign invaders show up. Jon or whoever taking over the wasteland of a kingdom and being forced to do.....something else.....is not terrible in a big picture sense. Sucks for the people on the end of the genocide though. Anyway, you know who I just realized is going to end up king? That weird Arryn kid what sucked his mama's boobies. Think of it. He's a noble. He's been sequestered away learning how to be a noble man. He's a guy. He'd probably like the job. There's your next king. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: I'm almost done. I've said all along that if this show ends with some schmuck city on the Iron Throne, it's a total failure. In that way, I actually like the poetic nature of Dany literally burning the capital to the ground after an endless war that saw most of the noble houses wiped out, the wall come down, and foreign invaders show up. Jon or whoever taking over the wasteland of a kingdom and being forced to do.....something else.....is not terrible in a big picture sense. Sucks for the people on the end of the genocide though. Anyway, you know who I just realized is going to end up king? That weird Arryn kid what sucked his mama's boobies. Think of it. He's a noble. He's been sequestered away learning how to be a noble man. He's a guy. He'd probably like the job. There's your next king. My money is still on Sansa and Tyrion or Sansa and Gendry ruling somehow. (now watch Sansa and Tyrion get killed in the first fifteen minutes and Dany marry Gendry, lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, visionary said: My money is still on Sansa and Tyrion or Sansa and Gendry ruling somehow. (now watch Sansa and Tyrion get killed in the first fifteen minutes and Dany marry Gendry, lol) I don't see how Tyrion survives at this point. Or even if he would want to. I just don't see him doing everything he's done to the be the hand to a tyrant. She finally ignored him, gave into her base nature, and....um...won. She really spiked the football though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: Why did they make this last season so short any way? When the show started, the producers determined that 73 episodes would get it done. Around the end end of season 6, HBO offered that they extend it if need be. Producers decided against it. They have basically squeezed what may eventually be one entire book into six episodes. Edited May 13, 2019 by No Excuses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: I don't see how Tyrion survives at this point. Or even if he would want to. I just don't see him doing everything he's done to the be the hand to a tyrant. She finally ignored him, gave into her base nature, and....um...won. She really spiked the football though. Maybe. They did foreshadow him possibly being killed. Still I'm going to be pretty depressed if that's how he ends, especially after all the bad luck and bad decisions he's had of late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 minute ago, No Excuses said: When the show started, the producers determined that 73 episodes would get it done. Around the end end of season 6, HBO offered that they extend it if need be. Producers decided against it. They have basically squeezed what may eventually be one entire book into six episodes. This started last year though with them magically moving from Winterfell to King's Landing and back again in one episode or so. The Hound and Arya spent two years walking north, it seemed, and got to the Twins. Everyone is zipping everywhere now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 (edited) I read a pretty good twitter thread on this from a screenwriter. He said the show was character driven (as were the books) and is why GRRM is stuck in how to advance the plot because it keeps getting thicker and thicker and harder to tie up. The show took over, and basically had to wrap it up. They knew how it would end, and maybe some of the emphasized events from Martin, but the final two seasons were plot driven. Meaning you have to abandon the characters you built in order to finish the story and get to a final plot point. That is pretty evident, and why the last two seasons seem so rushed and also unrealistic compared to the world/characters that were built by the book and Seasons 1-5, essentially. If they had continued with letting the character development drive the plot, this would have turned into 10 seasons. I wouldn't have complained, but I bet a lot of folks would want the show to "hurry up and get to the point" And this season is what you get. (or last 2 seasons, really) Maybe I should be upset by this. But in understanding why it happened this way, I can still appreciate it ... and even look forward to the day that GRRM figures out a way to get to this ending his own way. Maybe the show has given him insight in how not to do it. Edited May 13, 2019 by JamesMadisonSkins 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: This started last year though with them magically moving from Winterfell to King's Landing and back again in one episode or so. The Hound and Arya spent two years walking north, it seemed, and got to the Twins. Everyone is zipping everywhere now. Remember when we used to see the travel scenes? Now People decide to go somewhere a thousand miles away and all we see is them departing and arriving. It's like they teleport from Winterfell to King's Landing and vice versa. Those travel scenes used to show the characters' motives and explain plot points. Edited May 13, 2019 by Chachie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 23 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: This started last year though with them magically moving from Winterfell to King's Landing and back again in one episode or so. The Hound and Arya spent two years walking north, it seemed, and got to the Twins. Everyone is zipping everywhere now. I consider season 7 and 8 to basically be one since one had 7 episodes and the current one had 6. We essentially got a season 7 + 3 additional episodes (you can maybe say 4, since we got 20 minutes extra in the last 4 episodes). This show probably ends well if season 7 and 8 are done over 10 episodes each. That's an additional 7 episodes, which at this point, seems like enough to prevent resorting to awful plot devices like Discount Jack Sparrow and his stealth technology ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 They gotta stop talking 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Tyrion is going to be sentenced to die. When Dany realizes that Jaime was freed. She will know it was him. And if they can't confirm Cersei and Jamie's death, or even if they can ... Tyrion betrayed her, and she will punish him. Whether he dies before Jon can step in or not is to be seen. Jon, Tyrion ... Sansa (though she's a bit out of reach) are on the Mad Queen checklist for death or punishment ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 56 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: I'm almost done. I've said all along that if this show ends with some schmuck city on the Iron Throne, it's a total failure. In that way, I actually like the poetic nature of Dany literally burning the capital to the ground after an endless war that saw most of the noble houses wiped out, the wall come down, and foreign invaders show up. Jon or whoever taking over the wasteland of a kingdom and being forced to do.....something else.....is not terrible in a big picture sense. Sucks for the people on the end of the genocide though. Anyway, you know who I just realized is going to end up king? That weird Arryn kid what sucked his mama's boobies. Think of it. He's a noble. He's been sequestered away learning how to be a noble man. He's a guy. He'd probably like the job. There's your next king. If it came down to him, they'd throw his weak ass through the moon door immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazel-Ra Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 12 hours ago, abdcskins said: (I realize the rest of Westeros and the whole world exist but you know what I mean). Actually, you're not too far off. 7 seasons of war have only left Old Town , The Eyrie, and Sunspear untouched. (White Harbour if you're a book person) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yohan Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 King Robert was the smartest man in Westeros. The three Kingsguard that attacked the Hound, had the high ground. Obi Wan was wrong... What if Drogon got Dany a Mothers Day Card? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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